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Stop using Celestia's wings from the Pony Creator


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So what's with the princess eyes ("swan"-like eyes)? Are they off limit, too, or are they not part of the "princess" features?

I'd like a comment on the picture I posted, too.

Let's put it this way. Take the average seen ponies in the show and make a pony that is in fitting with the average. The few random and rare snowflakes that you see (The Princesses, Fleur, etc) are the size they are likely for special reasons. If your pony requires the wings of the Princesses to be in proportion, then your pony is even bigger than Big Macintosh, and that's not going to fly (Pardon the pun).

Rule of Thumb: If you have to break the average character appearance just to have your pony's appearance, it's probably not going to work. We are not going to spell out every single rule of what you can and can't have for every single character because (As an example) it should go without saying why you couldn't have a Warhammer 40k character in Equestria 'Just because the rules don't say you can't'.

In Fleur's case, the reasons she was the size she was, was likely to have a pony close to Fancy Pants's size so she could lean on him for the purposes of the scene. As Fancy Pants is as big as Big Macintosh, it wouldn't look right to have a -normal- pony doing what she does on him, so a larger pony was made for the purposes of the scene. While yes, this suggests that larger unicorns could be about, the -larger- Pegasi we have seen in the show that approach Big Mac in size still have regular Pegasi wings. Including, as near as I can see, the Princess's Guards (Who seem to be pegasi of unusual size).

LargerPegs.jpg

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I think basically unless a character is Celestia or Luna who are notably special, the animators aren't going to waste the time on super complicated, unique wings. And neither should you. How many birds of any given species do you know who have amazingly unique wings vastly different from the rest of the species?

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My thought is this. If you want to make your character really stand out and be unique, make it happen through their story, through one's RP writing. Make the character stand out and be interesting and different and fun by making them compelling as a character. Then it doesn't really matter what they look like. A totally average or normal character who stands out because they are a deep three dimensional character with a rich story will be a hundred times better and more interesting to interact with and care about than some oddly unique looking one without any real personality depth. If you have the former, trust me, you don't need the latter.

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I think basically unless a character is Celestia or Luna who are notably special, the animators aren't going to waste the time on super complicated, unique wings. And neither should you. How many birds of any given species do you know who have amazingly unique wings vastly different from the rest of the species?

But ponies aren't birds. And how often do you see two horses with the EXACT same markings, body structure, hoof size, leg size, etc. Not very often.

This rule seems kind of...stupid, and unnecessary, in my opinion. It pretty much destroys the awkward look I have for my male pegasi. He's like...a clydsdale among ponies, and his wings are so large they drape down to the ground, and add to the fact that his basic character is a 'gentle giant'. I suppose, in all technicality, they could still have the same shape as a regular pegasi....just really bulky and too large to fold without hitting the ground...

Are you going to make everypony who used those two wings remove their character, or just prevent it in future apps?

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But ponies aren't birds. And how often do you see two horses with the EXACT same markings, body structure, hoof size, leg size, etc. Not very often.

This rule seems kind of...stupid, and unnecessary, in my opinion. It pretty much destroys the awkward look I have for my male pegasi. He's like...a clydsdale among ponies, and his wings are so large they drape down to the ground, and add to the fact that his basic character is a 'gentle giant'. I suppose, in all technicality, they could still have the same shape as a regular pegasi....just really bulky and too large to fold without hitting the ground...

Are you going to make everypony who used those two wings remove their character, or just prevent it in future apps?

Personally I am fine with that as long as the normal wing design "look" is used; of course I don't think you even had a picture. Ultimately its up to the mods, but that is my feelings on it.

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Personally I am fine with that as long as the normal wing design "look" is used; of course I don't think you even had a picture. Ultimately its up to the mods, but that is my feelings on it.

Well, it was described in detail in the app. With the assumptions that the mods who looked at my app actually READ it, a picture wouldn't even be necessary. But I have one on my home computer now, so I'll get one up anyway.

But....um...yay?

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Well, it was described in detail in the app. With the assumptions that the mods who looked at my app actually READ it, a picture wouldn't even be necessary. But I have one on my home computer now, so I'll get one up anyway.

But....um...yay?

This is mostly a matter of people purposefully using the wrong wings in the Pony Creator. The Pony Creator wasn't created for Canterlot's use, there's a lot of combinations you could potentially have that are definitely not allowed for Mane RP useage. The idea of the Creator is for people who aren't good enough artists to draw their own, but the use of Celestia or Luna wings on purpose means breaking RP. Just make your pony smaller for the Creator. As for the other details, such as drooping wings, this is fine as well, because the pony creator can't allow you to resize your wings that much (But they would still have the right -look- either way), and you put them in your description.

Hand-drawn images are a little different, since they tend to be a matter of personal skill and style, but the Pony Creator exactly duplicates artwork as seen in the show, and as such all ponies are expected to appear as they would actually appear in the show if using it. I know this sounds like an arbitrary and silly rule, but as it's been claimed that 'because we don't have a rule for it (nor do we have a rule that says ponies can't have antlers or robotic wings specifically either)' we expect a modicum of common sense. People should actually watch the show so they can have an idea of what would and wouldn't be acceptable on their own recognizance, not requiring us as staff to have to filter them out.

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This is mostly a matter of people purposefully using the wrong wings in the Pony Creator. The Pony Creator wasn't created for Canterlot's use, there's a lot of combinations you could potentially have that are definitely not allowed for Mane RP useage. The idea of the Creator is for people who aren't good enough artists to draw their own, but the use of Celestia or Luna wings on purpose means breaking RP. Just make your pony smaller for the Creator. As for the other details, such as drooping wings, this is fine as well, because the pony creator can't allow you to resize your wings that much (But they would still have the right -look- either way), and you put them in your description.

Hand-drawn images are a little different, since they tend to be a matter of personal skill and style, but the Pony Creator exactly duplicates artwork as seen in the show, and as such all ponies are expected to appear as they would actually appear in the show if using it. I know this sounds like an arbitrary and silly rule, but as it's been claimed that 'because we don't have a rule for it (nor do we have a rule that says ponies can't have antlers or robotic wings specifically either)' we expect a modicum of common sense. People should actually watch the show so they can have an idea of what would and wouldn't be acceptable on their own recognizance, not requiring us as staff to have to filter them out.

Not to be picking a 'fight' here, Skye, but there's a question that's begging to be asked sooner or later, so I'll be the one to ask it now. Rumor has it that a third alicorn will be making an appearance in Season 2 in a 'Royal Wedding' themed episode. By implication, this would probably mean that her groom/husband-to-be would also be an alicorn. IF this rumored episode establishes the alicorns as a 'race' (meaning more than the four afore mentioned previously) then would the mods here allow 'alicorn' to be an accepted species for OC's in the Mane RP? Even if all alicorns are 'royalty', then there's still bound to be many, many others in the royal 'family tree.'

JUST asking the question, Skye, because it could become very relavant soon.

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Not to be picking a 'fight' here, Skye, but there's a question that's begging to be asked sooner or later, so I'll be the one to ask it now. Rumor has it that a third alicorn will be making an appearance in Season 2 in a 'Royal Wedding' themed episode. By implication, this would probably mean that her groom/husband-to-be would also be an alicorn. IF this rumored episode establishes the alicorns as a 'race' (meaning more than the four afore mentioned previously) then would the mods here allow 'alicorn' to be an accepted species for OC's in the Mane RP? Even if all alicorns are 'royalty', then there's still bound to be many, many others in the royal 'family tree.'

JUST asking the question, Skye, because it could become very relavant soon.

That will depends on whether or not it can be implied that they are actually a 'race' or if they are merely a specific royal family. If they are the latter, then they will only be applicable as stand-alone characters as they are. If they are determined to be a race, then rules will be put into place to prevent them from being too Mary Sue, but as right now it stands that Alicorns except for Luna and Celestia (And possibly the two 'new' Alicorns) will not be played just as monsters are. It is highly likely that the no alicorns rule will stand, as I don't see it being established that alicorns are so prevalent and common to be considered a whole separate species; in being so it reduces the Princess's 'specialness' and the royal family as a whole if suddenly there were alicorns as common as any other pony in Equestria.

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Well, it was described in detail in the app. With the assumptions that the mods who looked at my app actually READ it, a picture wouldn't even be necessary. But I have one on my home computer now, so I'll get one up anyway.

But....um...yay?

The mods do read the apps, that much I know for certain (as sometimes they disagree with us on staff on them). Pictures are never required, people just like to use them. If its accepted and a mod approved it then you are fine.

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If we accept that Fleur de Lis is canon, then how can anyone argue the uniqueness of those "princess" features anymore? If anything, it would make more sense that the princesses have normal wings, since they are an amalganation of the traits of all 3 pony types? Why shouldn't the princesses have pegasi wings?

That's really a question for the creators/artists/animators. They're the ones who decide what ponies look like, and they decided the Princesses should have unique wings.

I'd like a comment on the picture I posted, too.

To specifically address this:

If you're talking about Opal Shards, the wings in her profile picture were bent (therefore at an odd angle) and can totally pass for normal wings. You are safe. :)

Just remember that for Roleplay purposes, her wings are normal wings. As I already said, the picture makes them look normal enough to pass. The body type/shape doesn't matter.

The overall staff decision is this: Your pony can be as big as you like, but if the wings are starting to look too small, your pony is too big. Luna's size is the largest anypony can ever get. Big ponies are not a problem, but princess wings are.

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But ponies aren't birds. And how often do you see two horses with the EXACT same markings, body structure, hoof size, leg size, etc. Not very often.

Having a pony taller, fatter, bigger, tinier, etc. is totally fine. The issue isn't body type here, it's wing style and shape. Actually, everypony in show appears to be pretty much the same weight... Faust even confirmed that! But we totally let different body types go here.

Not to be picking a 'fight' here, Skye, but there's a question that's begging to be asked sooner or later, so I'll be the one to ask it now. Rumor has it that a third alicorn will be making an appearance in Season 2 in a 'Royal Wedding' themed episode. By implication, this would probably mean that her groom/husband-to-be would also be an alicorn. IF this rumored episode establishes the alicorns as a 'race' (meaning more than the four afore mentioned previously) then would the mods here allow 'alicorn' to be an accepted species for OC's in the Mane RP? Even if all alicorns are 'royalty', then there's still bound to be many, many others in the royal 'family tree.'

JUST asking the question, Skye, because it could become very relavant soon.

The best and most basic answer? We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. We really don't know what the episode is going to be about. It could be a History episode, or as Skye said, they could just be a royal family... Heck, we don't know! And we won't until the episode airs.

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The overall staff decision is this: Your pony can be as big as you like, but if the wings are starting to look too small, your pony is too big. Luna's size is the largest anypony can ever get. Big ponies are not a problem, but princess wings are.

I'm glad to have some official confirmation on that. I was kinda in the ropes about this yesterday, after talking to staff about it. Thank you very much. :)

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But ponies aren't birds. And how often do you see two horses with the EXACT same markings, body structure, hoof size, leg size, etc. Not very often.

Yeah, we're talking about two different things. There is an allowance for variation within a species, or pretty much every single dog breed would have its own species. Celestia and Luna's wings are so totally different to the rest of the ponies that there has to be extra bones in there, or a completely different means by which the muscles are attached and feather conformations that the regular ponies don't possess, not to mention the fact that they possess the traits of all the other varieties of ponies.

And sure, we're talking about a magical land where unicorns, pegasi and regular horses can interbreed, and presumably the offspring aren't sterile (which would make them technically different breeds of the same species, which is all kinds of scientifically impossible), but you know what? A kid watching that show isn't going to think about it in terms of how biology would differentiate the princesses from the regular ponies. They're going to think "Oh, they have super fancy wings, they're special". And putting another pony in there with the same wings dilutes the special-ness of the princesses.

When dealing with trying to make a character that the rest of us aren't going to roll our eyes at for the purposes of RP, you basically have to think about what a 7 year old would find really awesome, and then do the exact opposite, because a 7 year old would pile on all the best attributes of all the ponies and call it a day. Presumably at this stage we have all taken a creative writing class, or at least had a creative writing project and have been told that that's a good way to make people lose interest really fast. Standing out like a unique, magical, insanely and implausibly designed snowflake compared to all the other ponies in Equestria (including the OCs, the mane cast and the background ponies), doesn't endear you to your fellow RPers, or your readers. GOOD STORYTELLING DOES. Otherwise this board would be driven by making crazy customs.

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hi hi

So this is an issue with the pony creator and not the actual wing sizes? I thought Diomedes Ironwing had wings twice the size of an average pegasi, so thats ok, right?

Yeah, I believe so. I believe the problem Tales is pointing out is that people keep using and wanting Luna's and Celestia's unique wings. Thing is those wings are for those particular characters, to make them stand out as special and different from the other ponies. Too many people want to go the "special snowflake" route when making a character instead of a deep and interesting one based on personality and story.

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