S03 E03: "Too Many Pinkie Pies"

[Bellosh]

What if someone pitched a tent in your walkway? You could walk around the tent every time you go out your front door.

Last I checked, buffalo tribes don't need walkways to migrate. No matter where they stampede through, there's nothing but rocky desert. That's not worth getting into a fight with a town over.

[Rabukurafuto]

I thought that the buffalo considered that particular plot of land important. It was tradition to charge through there and it was bad luck the settlers picked that one area to plant in, or something like that.

[ping111]

I don't think the lot of you understand the importance of tradition in this situation.

When you think about it, there is no reason for the Aboriginal Peoples to still exist. The Europeans went all vini, vidi, vici on them, and that's that. However, the small amount of them that remained wanted to keep their people alive for as long as possible. So, they gave up modern technologies and stayed true to their ancestor's ways. This includes traditional rituals. Sure, the buffalo could just stampede somewhere else, but that was ancestral stampeding grounds, and people tend to get really angry when you mess with their routine.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Also, it was the only flat land around. Do you want them to trip on a rock and sprain an ankle or something?

I feel like I should mention that, even though I've been awfully critical about this episode, a lot of it is just a part of the discussion. With the exception of the test, which truly horrified me, I enjoyed the episode reasonably well. I'd put the rest of the episode on par with Bird in the Hoof maybe. I suspect I must sound like an awfully grumpy curmudgeon by now, but the discussion of the episode sort of has taken on a life of its own, to cover more ground than was actually in the show.

[SteelEagle]

There is a topic for that episode, I'm sure. Take it there, maybe?

[Whitehawke]

Haven't been following this topic all that much, but concerning my personal thoughts of this episode, it basically convinced me that Dave Polsky is the weakest of the FiM writers.

This is the 3rd time he's written an episode that suffers MASSIVELY when looked upon with scrutiny. And he had an entire season to get this one right.

The problem, I think, is that every one of his episodes are very "Loony Tune"-ish. Pinkie Pie is central to the plot (twice the main character, hijacks Over a Barrel), characters have much more violence inflicted upon them for the laughs and most of all is that their stories are wrapped-up quickly.

And by quickly, I mean with the same amount of effort you might wrap up an episode of the Road Runner.

Major issues:

-"Legend" out of nowhere. I would expect at least a basic amount of foreshadowing. Don't call it a legend if it's going to become true within a minute of its introduction.

-The test being "Watching paint dry". Never mind the way the "failures" got forcibly sent back.

It was shown from the beginning that the clones had trouble adapting to Pinkie's memories, being incapable of remembering Applejack's and Fluttershy's names. PINKIE KNOWS EVERYPONY IN PONYVILLE. So the test could just have been "Name this pony". This would have been GREAT, because it would have turned "jokes" into foreshadowing.

-THAT SECRET COMPARTMENT IN TWI'S LIBRARY. Seriously, there was NO need for that. IT WILL NEVER COME UP AGAIN AND I HATE THAT THOUGHT.

Dave Polsky writes these episodes banking entirely on "it's a cartoon, and at the end of the episode, nothing can really change and nothing matters".

He HAS to, because when I think too hard about the way the clones got forcibly sent back to the pool, I compare it to a farmer drowning an unexpected litter of baby kittens.

The clones aren't wanted: they're causing too much destruction. This was actually shown decently enough. But Twilight zapping the clones like she did was supposed to be funny, given the way they look just before they explode. This is why I find Dave Polsky to be the worst of the writers, he takes the easy way out of his plots, using humor to cover the tracks.

About the only things I actively liked is seeing AJ's herding skills once again, as well as Fluttershy having a picnic with the bear.

Honestly, if Dave Polsky writes another episode, it will probably be about politics. Mayor Mare must compete against another pony for re-election. The mane 6 will be equally divided. Pinkie Pie will be a main character. Both sides will be caricatures of Republicans and Conservatives.

And it will especially have an ending that could only happen in a cartoon. Like both sides getting elected at the same time. Because "Friendship".

Point is, this could have went much better. I didn't hate what I was seeing, per se, but it doesn't hold up to multiple viewings like most of the other episodes do.

[Dessa]

No, Ginger, you sound like awesome, and I look forward to your thoughts on every episode. You're one of the few people I feel who can give me satisfying answers even when I disagree.

[SonicRainb00m]

Point is, this could have went much better. I didn't hate what I was seeing, per se, but it doesn't hold up to multiple viewings like most of the other episodes do.

Well, keep in mind that this is a cartoon that isn't really meant to be thought about too deeply. Don't get me wrong, I love to dissect these episodes as much as the next guy, and I truly enjoy reading these threads. But sometimes, it doesn't hurt to have an episode that is purely focused on having fun. And this episode delivered that- I had fun watching it, and I think almost everyone would agree with that.

I think of these types of episodes are similar to comic relief in a serious story. Once in a while, it doesn't hurt to step back from analyzing the show in detail for underlying themes and just have an episode to answer the question: "What would happen if there were a bunch of Pinkies running around?"

And in regards to the "politics episode", I doubt that he (or any other writer) would do that, especially after a very divided election in the U.S. recently. And, personally, I don't think that the mane 6 getting in a conflict over an election would be very characteristic of them anyway.

[Rosewind]

I love how polarizing this episode was. I think the reason is more fun to try to understand than the rhyme of the story. It succeeded in taking many of us our of our FiM comfort zones, myself included. It's another dynamic in an increasingly complex cartoon.

[weesh]

Well, keep in mind that this is a cartoon that isn't really meant to be thought about too deeply. Don't get me wrong, I love to dissect these episodes as much as the next guy, and I truly enjoy reading these threads. But sometimes, it doesn't hurt to have an episode that is purely focused on having fun. And this episode delivered that- I had fun watching it, and I think almost everyone would agree with that.

I love fluff as much as the next guy, in fact, my avatar is the personification of fluff. His comic is devoid of actual content. It is just light fun and silly scenarios.

But when a fluffy creation strays into a difficult moral question, how can we help but dive deeply into it? If the goal was fluff, then the writer failed by including so much moral ambiguity.

I love how polarizing this episode was. I think the reason is more fun to try to understand than the rhyme of the story. It succeeded in taking many of us our of our FiM comfort zones, myself included. It's another dynamic in an increasingly complex cartoon.

Well said.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I had another thought about the moral of the "test." It occurred to me that there is a similar situation that lots of people go through all the time. Driving.

In the USA anyway, there are over half a million injuries every year due to people being distracted at the wheel, not paying attention to the road, etc. I guess that might be a vague moral of the story, to not let yourself be distracted in such dangerous situations. Unfortunately, there is another driving statistic that ruins it. There are over 100,000 automobile accidents that occur every year because people fall asleep at the wheel, which typically involves people who want to keep their eyes on the road, but are unable to do so, in spite of being perfectly typical humans with fully developed mental capabilities. I dunno, maybe its just a wash.

(also... I'm not sure if I like being taken out of my comfort zone. It can be... uncomfortable.)

[SonicRainb00m]

hi hi

I had another thought about the moral of the "test." It occurred to me that there is a similar situation that lots of people go through all the time. Driving.

In the USA anyway, there are over half a million injuries every year due to people being distracted at the wheel, not paying attention to the road, etc. I guess that might be a vague moral of the story, to not let yourself be distracted in such dangerous situations. Unfortunately, there is another driving statistic that ruins it. There are over 100,000 automobile accidents that occur every year because people fall asleep at the wheel, which typically involves people who want to keep their eyes on the road, but are unable to do so, in spite of being perfectly typical humans with fully developed mental capabilities. I dunno, maybe its just a wash.

I can attest to this. I am getting my license soon, and I can tell you, it is easy to get distracted at the wheel. At least after you have been driving for a while, because at first, it has 100% of your attention since it is a completely new experience. But when have been driving for a while, its easy to start thinking about other things, and before you know it, you just rear-ended someone on the freeway because you didn't see that everyone was braking. It requires extreme mental discipline to drive safely all of the time, and I just wish that people would realize that.

And after thinking about this, I can relate to Pinkie in this episode a little more. What if I fail my driving test? What if I *gulp* run over someone? Those questions can really stress me out sometimes. So I feel you, Pinkie, I feel you.

[Chapien]

It's odd. It seems the episodes most people can relate to (ie the Fluttershy, some Rainbow Dash, Twilight Sparkle episodes) I cannot relate to at all, and yet episodes others cannot relate to (Mostly Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie episodes), I relate to completely. This episode was no exception. I don't feel that it was the best episode ever, but it's certainly one of the most emotional (for me) because I understand completely what Pinkie was feeling thorughout the episode (having felt similair emotions throughout my life).

Pinkie Pie episodes may not be my favorite episodes. They are, however, the ones I understand and relate to the most, and the ones most likely to get an emotional reaction out of me.

[ZephyrBurst]

Well, keep in mind that this is a cartoon

That's an excuse. This show has shown in the past that it can step well over the 'just a cartoon'. If I wanted just a cartoon, I'd go watch Road Runner or some random anime.

I love fluff as much as the next guy, in fact, my avatar is the personification of fluff. His comic is devoid of actual content. It is just light fun and silly scenarios.

But when a fluffy creation strays into a difficult moral question, how can we help but dive deeply into it? If the goal was fluff, then the writer failed by including so much moral ambiguity.

Pretty much that.

[elsporko]

I would have cared more about the plight of the buffalo tribe if they were actually going to lose... well you know, land and resources. The buffalo whining about one simple town getting in the way of their migration didn't cut it for me.

Fortunately, Too Many Pikie Pies had less fundamental issues with the plot that Over A Barrel, which is why I rank S3E3 higher.

I'm no expert but I believe settlers interrupting the migrations of Native Americans and buffalo by building farms and towns was an actual problem the Natives faced during western expansion. Over a Barrel had it in a smaller scale but this is also a cartoon about ponies.

[brianblackberry]

-THAT SECRET COMPARTMENT IN TWI'S LIBRARY. Seriously, there was NO need for that. IT WILL NEVER COME UP AGAIN AND I HATE THAT THOUGHT.

I thought I was the only one who was annoyed by that "secret compartment", it felt so forced and had absolutely no place in the story.

[weesh]

I really do hope the secret compartment comes back. A season long brick joke would be excellent. But even if it doesn't, so what?

[tacobob]

I really do hope the secret compartment comes back. A season long brick joke would be excellent. But even if it doesn't, so what?

I think it would be interesting to see what other secrets the Golden Oaks Library may have...Just wonder who was running the place before Twilight moved in...

[Whitehawke]

The secret compartment in this episode is poor writing.

When you introduce a "secret" location, you foreshadow a search for something related to it, dropping hints of its location over time. Then, once the location is found, you explain at some later time why this location exists.

To the writer of this episode, the compartment had only one purpose: "This book is more important than the others!".

No explanation, no foreshadowing. He just wanted the book to be more special than the others.

It's insulting to the lore of the world, and in most cases, insulting to the audience as well.

Imagine if every time there was a search for a book (it's happened quite a few times, by the way), a secret compartment was introduced just to tell the audience "This is the right book!".

[Rosewind]

I am pro secret compartment. Is it a (over-used) plot device? Yes, it is. However, given the time constraint of the episode in question, it did what it needed to do.

How many times does Twilight pluck a book off her shelf to solve the problem du jour? I think by looking up a secret compartment, it gave that scene a little more contrast and whimsy than just simply having her pick up a book/search for a book like she normally does. I think the expectation and thirst for more lore in every episode leads to continued disappointment, especially when writers lean back on well-known cartoon tropes to perpetuate the story within its focus.

Too much lore is a bad thing; hinting at something more and keeping the world mysterious and full of surprises can be good storytelling practice if it's executed properly, carefully crafted lead up or not.

[weesh]

To the writer of this episode, the compartment had only one purpose: "This book is more important than the others!".

No explanation, no foreshadowing. He just wanted the book to be more special than the others.

Can you explain a bit simpler why this is bad? I'm not seeing it.

[Whitehawke]

Twilight regularly cleans and shelves her books (Secret of my excess intro). Sometimes with her friends, too. (Sonic Rainboom)

The compartment had spider webs around it, suggesting she doesn't.

It goes against Twilight's personality to leave such an easily found location in her own library uncleaned.

Moreover, to further support my point, note how Spike doesn't even mention the compartment to Twilight, nor does she ask where he found the book (something she has done in the past with her friends). Why? Because it doesn't matter to the writer.

The compartment accomplished its goal. The goal he intended it to have. "This book is special!"

Despite the fact that it goes against a main character's personality.

[Bellosh]

It's insulting to the lore of the world, and in most cases, insulting to the audience as well.

Ah, but that depends on what type of audience one is writing for. I bet the little kiddies who are supposed to be the target audience for MLP weren't insulted by the secret book gag.

[elsporko]

Wild theory time: The library is magic and intelligent. It helps Twilight when it needs to. How many times has she just happened to find the book she needs when it is needed.She even found the elements that one time. Because the library helped her.

That book was hidden because the magic pond could be abused so easily, it was kept safe until the library knew she needed it

[weesh]

It goes against Twilight's personality to leave such an easily found location in her own library uncleaned.

Moreover, to further support my point, note how Spike doesn't even mention the compartment to Twilight, nor does she ask where he found the book (something she has done in the past with her friends). Why? Because it doesn't matter to the writer.

It is only obvious to us because we are now aware that secret compartments exist. Her habits nonwithstanding, it is not hard to imagine that she could miss such a compartment.

Also does it really make sense that Twilight would ask spike where he found a book, every time, when he probably finds books for her everyday?

Why is the book hidden and why is it still a secret to Twilight? I can think of a few reasons:

1) There is a spell for an automaton that Spike feels might replace him.

2) Spike wanted a book to be hidden so that he could be deemed invaluable in a time of need.

3) Spike thinks the book is dangerous.