S03 E04: "One Bad Apple"

[TotalEcplise]

hi hi

Bullying is reckless and dangerous. Bullying kills people.

That is definitely a slippery sort of argument to make. I'll say nothing more of it.

[Rosewind]

You both have good points, but I recommend we step back and keep focus on the bigger picture at play here. Thankfully, this is a cartoon where unrealistic things are done to entertain and to send a message. I'm not too worried about children sabotaging cars to get back at a bully; suicide is more on the deep end of the argument, though I don't disagree it is one of the many consequences of the problem.

*smooshes Ginger and Swirly together* Kissies!

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Well I'll be...

I don't think the friends and family of someone who dies because they were bullied are going to be any less in pain than someone who dies because of a motor vehicle crash. It is still just as hurtful.

But if we're going to compare the two: A parade float made out of wood and cloth traveling slower than a child can run is going to be significantly less dangerous than a 1.5 ton steel automobile. The average child can run 15 mph, and the even Sweetie Belle, who's not particularly athletic, was able to catch up to the float while on foot. Colliding with something at 15 miles per hour is roughly equivalent to falling off a step ladder. (7.5 foot drop) The risk of dying from a collision at 15 miles per hour is less than 1% ((Even for pedestrians with no safety devices!)) Furthermore, it is precisely the inelasticity of automobiles that causes the majority of injuries in low speed collisions, because the vehicle does not begin to crush and absorb the impact until 15-20 miles per hour.[1] However, a float made out of wood and cloth will not remain static at any impact speed. On the other hand, according to that link, around 11.5% of bullying victims have attempted suicide, but thankfully as few as 1% of those actually succeed.

So the danger of being in such a low speed collision is actually quite comparable to... Aww, ok Rosewind. How can I say no to that? (Next time Gadget... next time.)

1. Navin FP, Romilly DP. An investigation into vehicle and occupancy response subjected to low-speed rear impacts. Proceedings of the Multidisciplinary Road Safety Conference VI, 1989.

[weesh]

Anyone surprised that Applejack missed the schism between the cousins? How did she miss it at mealtimes or during the evenings?

[starswirlthebearded]

Yes, it is equally traumatic. But that wasn't the point. The point is that suicide is usually not the intended result of bullying, but rather the unfortunate consequence to constant bullying, which is why when it occurs it is treated as unintentional (or second degree) murder iirc. If you sabotage a vehicle and that occurs it would be treated as first degree, because intent to harm was evident, and it was planned and devised in advance.

Also, car collisions also have safety devices which cut down on mortality as well as injury. We both can throw numbers out. Because, lets face it, neither are very statistically pleasant. But I'll go with Rosewind's suggestion and just end it here.

BTW, I'm not either Rosie, but I don't like that is where they went first. I feel there were better ways to achieve the same thing.

So...er... Until next time Dr Claw?

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I'm pretty sure that Griffin the Brush-off was controversial. Lots of people didn't like how Rainbow Dash treated Gilda, lots of people thought Gilda deserved worse, some people thought that the pranks were cruel, some people though the pranks were not. I didn't really care much for the episode when I first watched it, though it had nothing to do with controversy or anything. I appreciated it a bit better after going back and watching it again in the context of those arguments though.

Also, what do you mean you're on nobody's side? I've never seen that musical, but the song provides precious little context. You don't really think that nobody can ever be trustworthy do you?

[starswirlthebearded]

Anyone surprised that Applejack missed the schism between the cousins? How did she miss it at mealtimes or during the evenings?

*blink* You know I never thought of that... Perhaps she did notice and thought they had gotten into an argument, and figured that if there was a problem that one of them would approach her.

[Rosewind]

This thread is a shining example of irony. Please think before you post. I understand this topic is important to everyone, but there are ways to present an argument without falling to personal attacks. It's not necessary, and does nothing to validate any points you may have. I suggest if this topic is really bothering some of you, take a break and mull on it for a while.

Remember: this is a cartoon meant for kids' entertainment. This episode had an important message; let's not disrespect it in practice.

[NoGiantRobots1983]

Anyone surprised that Applejack missed the schism between the cousins? How did she miss it at mealtimes or during the evenings?

Actually this bothered me too. I guess Applejack is just selectively oblivious.

A bigger question is: how did Big Macintosh and Granny Smith miss it?

[EquestriaForever]

Hello.

I thought I'd put a post up however apparently I didn't. I'm still working out how to use these.

To the episode though, most everything's been discussed, especially the bullying, so I'll save my opinions on that part for later, or possibly never depending.

As for how Applejack and the family missed it... That actually doesn't surprise me at all. Yes, there would have been signs, obvious signs, of distancing and awkwardness between the cousins. Appleblooms fear, Bab Seeds smugness and asserting of her supposed authority. Every witnessed interaction between the two would have some level of that in it.

However people don't get things. They notice them, but they don't trace them back to origin. People will notice that something's wrong, but won't know what. And when they ask, both of them will say that nothing's wrong, because Applebloom didn't want to snitch, and Babs Seed didn't want anyone who could actually punish her knowing what she was doing. So all in all, Applejack and the rest of the family probably did notice that something was off. But they didn't know what it was, and with the kids telling them they were fine saw no reason to investigate further into it. Or that's my opinion in any case.

[TotalEcplise]

*blink* You know I never thought of that... Perhaps she did notice and thought they had gotten into an argument, and figured that if there was a problem that one of them would approach her.

That or AJ was aware of how the CmC feel about Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon, thus could really only say "meh" when she notice Babs hanging out with them, and not with Apple Bloom.

[HopeFox]

Anyone surprised that Applejack missed the schism between the cousins? How did she miss it at mealtimes or during the evenings?

Applejack's obliviousness is a bit odd, but it's hardly the first time. What I want to know is how neither Twilight nor Spike realised that Babs was bullying the Crusaders in the library, nor Rarity in the Carousel Boutique. From a thematic point of view, it works - the Crusaders were keeping the adults in their lives from finding out about the bullying, so as not to be considered "snitches" - but in practicality, it's a bit hard to believe. But that's pretty normal for this show.

Oddly, the bit about Babs sleeping in Apple Bloom's bed didn't surprise me - whenever I had friends visiting when I was a kid, my friend would get the bed and I'd get a mattress on the floor. It's the fact that Apple Bloom was sleeping on a pile of straw under some newspapers that wasn't okay. And also something Applejack should really have noticed, but that didn't stop it from being funny.

It's good that Applejack has now witnessed Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon trying to bully the Crusaders first-hoof now. That should mean the Apples no longer think that they're friends, as they have in previous episodes.

I also find it interesting that Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon escalated to a higher level of bullying this episode. The teasing in "Call of the Cutie" and "Family Appreciation Day" was bad, but nothing like this. ("Ponyville Confidential" was more about Diamond Tiara trying to be a legitimate villain rather than a bully. Full marks for trying, too.) It's ironic, because the reason they escalated was that they had an accomplice who was willing to take things to the next level, but she only did so in order to avoid their bullying. I'll be very interested to see what their next conflict is like. Sadly, I don't think we'll see Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon again until Season 4.

In non-bullying-related news, the Cutie Mark Crusaders built a car. I think that's pretty awesome. (It also pushes the tech level up to what looks like diesel engines, unfortunately.) I always love seeing the Crusaders display impressive skills, which is one of the reasons I loved "The Show Stoppers" so much.

[starswirlthebearded]

Oddly, the bit about Babs sleeping in Apple Bloom's bed didn't surprise me - whenever I had friends visiting when I was a kid, my friend would get the bed and I'd get a mattress on the floor. It's the fact that Apple Bloom was sleeping on a pile of straw under some newspapers that wasn't okay. And also something Applejack should really have noticed, but that didn't stop it from being funny.

In non-bullying-related news, the Cutie Mark Crusaders built a car. I think that's pretty awesome. (It also pushes the tech level up to what looks like diesel engines, unfortunately.) I always love seeing the Crusaders display impressive skills, which is one of the reasons I loved "The Show Stoppers" so much.

I just want to comment on these two things.

1) AB sleeping on straw... They are a poor farming family. They probably didn't have anything else for AB to sleep on. Though the newspapers were a bit much, as they should have had at least a spare sheets. However the sleeping on straw wasn't bad. Heck, I used to sleep on a board covered in a blanket to help my back when I injured it. It might not be comfortable, but it is fantastic for spine alignment. And I have also taken the floor when friends were over, and they took my bed. I just had sheets and a pillow. It isn't a bad way to sleep. I'd rather have a hardwood floor than a poor mattress.

2) I'm going with my usual theory... The engine is magic powered. They probably have a way to store magical power that can be recharged or something of the like. I don't think they used a combustion engine.

They probably had an engine and had help the first time, so I figure they knew what to do because they saw either Big Mac or AJ do it first. Still impressive though.

[leodylandy]

i liked the episode best part was the song

[Dessa]

i liked the episode best part was the song

A refreshing point of view!

Also, gingermint, if 2 15 MPH vehicles collide, the collision is THIRTY MPH.

[elsporko]

Starswirl, you are applying alot of logic to people who likely not thinking logically. Getting revenge in a way that doesn't actually stop the problem rather then a solution that could desculate it already doesn't make sense. Plus these are children who have shown in the past that they aren't all that great at thinking ahead of the consequences.

When a kid who is bullied brings a gun to school you don't look at the situation and say, "Well didn't he realize bringing a gun to school is worst then what the bullies did? That don't make sense."

As for Applejack and the other characters not noticing the bullying, as an authority figure if you aren't aware of a situation and that one side doesn't like it then it can be hard to tell bullying from normal rough housing. I'm also guessing Applebloom and Babs were suppose to share the bed and Babs kicked her out.

[starswirlthebearded]

Elsporko, I'm only applying logic because what they did doesn't make sense for their intent. A kid who brings a gun to school in retaliation to bullying is trying to frighten the bully out of bullying them. That makes sense because that is effective in their goal, stupid but effective. The CMC wanted to embarrass Babs. Rigging the float to fail so that it would crash into a mud embankment does not make sense for that goal. That would make more sense in frightening Babs out of bullying them, but Apple bloom expressed her intent of humiliation pretty clearly. Which is why I think in my third post that someone explain to me how that course of action made any sense for embarrassing Babs.

It is simple, it didn't. It was just dangerous, stupid and needlessly complicated. All I can do is chalk it up to bad writing.

[elsporko]

It seemed to me they intended for the float to crash earlier around the crowd not in the embankment and embarrass her by making it look like she crashed it herself. She would have looked foolish in front of the town

Things went wrong, which accomplished the lesson that retaliation can quickly spiral out of control with worst consequences then what was intended.

It also served the story because it added the dramatic tension of wondering if they would make it to the float in time, as well as giving them time to realize their mistake.

[Parker_Izing]

About the song, on the theater , Wooves X Derpy, cannot be unseen.

[Cadabra]

I was personally thrilled just to see a movie theater becoming canon. Being a videographer, this means OC pony videographer fan fics.

[TotalEcplise]

About sleeping on hay and newspapers.

Remember that restaurant that had bushels of hay for chairs? yeah.

[weesh]

Also, gingermint, if 2 15 MPH vehicles collide, the collision is THIRTY MPH.

A common misconception.

If two vehicles of the same size collide at that speed and come to a dead stop, it is similar to hitting a tree at 15 mph. If a small vehicle and a large truck collide and after the collision the truck is moving at 14 mph, and the car is now moving backwards at 14 mph, then the truck saw a collision of 1 mph, and the car saw a collision of 29 mph.

[elsporko]

Watch out everbody! Zombie rider's post is a trick! If you read the entire thing it summons an eldritch abomination

[MidnightBlackhorn]

I loved this episode for many reasons, one of them being the awesome song done by the CMC. I was hoping they'd have a song in this episode, and the writers didn't dissapoint

[starswirlthebearded]

It seemed to me they intended for the float to crash earlier around the crowd not in the embankment and embarrass her by making it look like she crashed it herself. She would have looked foolish in front of the town

Things went wrong, which accomplished the lesson that retaliation can quickly spiral out of control with worst consequences then what was intended.

It also served the story because it added the dramatic tension of wondering if they would make it to the float in time, as well as giving them time to realize their mistake.

There are several problems with that. First if that was the case then they would have involved innocent bystanders in their "prank" that could have gotten injured. Second, they set the timer on max. And it went off far past the crowd. Third the rigging prevented it from steering. It never turned out started to. It looks like it was rigged only to go straight. Remember Babs tried steering but couldn't. Had it been rigged to veer it wouldn't have ended up where it did. Lastly, when an 8 year old crashes anything the first reaction isn't laughter but "omc are you ok?" So humiliation still doesn't make sense. It doesn't work on multiple levels.