S03 E04: "One Bad Apple"

[Ginger Mint]

[colour=#222222]hi hi

I can agree that the plan to crash the float was not a good plan for humiliation. It was dangerous and stupid. But I still don't see how that equals bad writing. The Cutie Mark Crusaders didn't write the script. Suppose if, at the end of the episode, the Cutie Mark Crusaders had said, "Aww shucks, Babs didn't deserve that, but if she had deserved it, it would have been a super duper plan." Would that not constitute a mixed message?

I can't stress this enough: bullying hurts people. The injuries may not be as obvious as falling down a hill, but they are just as real, and often times longer lasting. (If I had to choose between getting hit by a car at low speeds while biking to work again or going through another day of middle school, I'd choose the former.)

Television is a visual medium. In film, it is often better to show the audience something rather than telling them something. The sense of motion, the extreme camera angles, and the pacing were all crafted to emphasize and even exaggerate the danger. They showed us that thoughtlessness can lead to unintended consequences. They didn't intend for Pinkie Pie to get run off the road, they didn't intend to put any hapless pigs in danger at the end. They showed us how seeking revenge is reckless, stupid and dangerous; how retaliation can quickly escalate in a way that was crystal clear. I cannot imagine that this was a mistake, it seems far more likely to me that this was an intentional feature of the story. They already showed us how bullying can be emotionally hurtful in the first half of the episode by chronicling the plight of the Cutie Mark Crusaders, and I think that comparing the two and addressing how it can be physically hurtful as well was a good thing. This episode wasn't just about bullying, it was about revenge as well.

I can't say much else about the premise that reckless and dangerous things shouldn't be in the show, except to say that reckless and dangerous things happen a lot in this show already, and that I fail to see how this in particular was contrarily unacceptable.

• Telling a friend to let go, even though there was no explicit indication of why she couldn't have been picked up while she was still holding on.

• Luring an Ursa Minor into town for entertainment.

• Jumping across a chasm, or kicking a dragon in the face.

• Casting a spell to sabotage a rampaging bug's eating habits.

• Leaving a baby dragon on a chunk of melting ice in the middle of a lake.

• Sending an inexperienced filly off a cliff in a hang glider.

• Sabotaging the road signs along a race course.

• The entire Feeling Pinkie Keen episode.

• Flying recklessly on fragile wings and nearly plummeting to death.

• Walking into the Everfree forest alone for some tea and getting turned to stone.

• Running around on top of a moving train, and nearly derailing it with passengers inside.

• Giving an animal medicine without knowing what kind of animal it is.

• Jumping out in front of a moving vehicle without looking.

• Trying to catch a tumbling stone statue.

• Drinking home made chemical concoctions

• Ghastly Gorge

• Conspiring to try to save the day one at a time, when an entire group could go at once.

• Not accepting help when overwhelmed by child care-taking.

• Trying to race an oncoming train through a crossing.

• Purposefully disengaging the safety mechanism on a piece of agricultural machinery.

• Half of everything Pinkie Pie does.

• Fighting an entire army with just five others.

[/colour]

[starswirlthebearded]

I consider it bad writing because the writer decided that was what they were to do. I don't want to blame the characters. I feel like they would have known better. But that is just me. Perhaps their judgement was clouded by anger. But in the end the writer makes the decision what happens in the episode.

As for the other questionable things, I'd go though each of them. What annoyed me about this is that they chose to do it knowing it would adversely affect another. It was the malicious intent that bothered me, among the other glaring issues with the scene. Most other things that were done were not with malicious intent. Also a lot of them there was no other options or limited options. Here they could have done many other things in its place.

[Cadabra]

Here's a thought: Are kids always thinking about all possible outcomes to the end result? Think back to when you were a kid with a grandly devious idea, any old idea will do. I'll use one that often got me in trouble: My brother did it. I would be mad at my brother and do something that I just knew would tee off my mother, thinking how mad they would be at my brother.

Once I smashed dog droppings in a paper towel that he was supposed to pick up on the hood of mum's car because he did not do his chore, hoping to blame it on him. Turned out he didn't do his chore because he was sick with the flu, and guess who was grounded for a week AND had to wash the car. And here my little 8 year old head thought I was getting revenge for this plan.

The point I am trying to make is that kids don't often think of the big picture or of all possible outcomes. They are just thinking about the solution that fits their desires. In my case, I was not thinking of sponging a pile of doggie uh oh off my mother's car, but of fetting even with my brother.

[flutterscotch]

Here's a thought: Are kids always thinking about all possible outcomes to the end result? Think back to when you were a kid with a grandly devious idea, any old idea will do. I'll use one that often got me in trouble: My brother did it. I would be mad at my brother and do something that I just knew would tee off my mother, thinking how mad they would be at my brother.

Once I smashed dog droppings in a paper towel that he was supposed to pick up on the hood of mum's car because he did not do his chore, hoping to blame it on him. Turned out he didn't do his chore because he was sick with the flu, and guess who was grounded for a week AND had to wash the car. And here my little 8 year old head thought I was getting revenge for this plan.

The point I am trying to make is that kids don't often think of the big picture or of all possible outcomes. They are just thinking about the solution that fits their desires. In my case, I was not thinking of sponging a pile of doggie uh oh off my mother's car, but of fetting even with my brother.

Yeah, my brother and I also did totally inappropriate, horrible and stupid things that we kept from adults as children that I look back on and think "what the heck was wrong with me?", most of it in retaliation for bullies. These two neighborhood kids would not stop pestering me. They would take stuff from me and generally be completely horrible to me for months. One day they took my yearbook, that I had just gotten, from a school I knew I was leaving at the end of the semester, and threw it in the creek, and stood over me, taunting me. I was in 5th grade. So 11 or 12.

Soooo, I snapped and grabbed the tire iron out of the back of my stepdad's truck and smashed the spokes of their bikes in.

Guess who got a visit from the cops that day...

Some kids are stupid and don't think of consequences no matter how bad they are, and hindsight and maturity are 20/20.

But I still wish there was some kind of punishment involved for the CMCs. They essentially got rewarded for their poor behavior.

[Dessa]

About the song, on the theater , Wooves X Derpy, cannot be unseen.

Sorry to break it to you, but that was Cloudkicker with Time Turner (Whooves) at the theater. Check the mane.

I was personally thrilled just to see a movie theater becoming canon. Being a videographer, this means OC pony videographer fan fics.

Projectors were canonized first in Hurricane Fluttershy.

A common misconception.

If two vehicles of the same size collide at that speed and come to a dead stop, it is similar to hitting a tree at 15 mph. If a small vehicle and a large truck collide and after the collision the truck is moving at 14 mph, and the car is now moving backwards at 14 mph, then the truck saw a collision of 1 mph, and the car saw a collision of 29 mph.

DROPPIN KNOWLEDGE. The cars don't come to a dead stop though, they bounce a bit. So maybe it's not a 30 mph crash, but they do still suddenly reverse direction.

[TaleWind]

Wow guys, heated debates all around! Let's just all agree that bullying is bad and so are car crashes, yes'm.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

The way I see it, malicious intent is an integral component of revenge. They could have done something else that didn't involve the Cutie Mark Crusaders being malicious, but I think the story is better because they chose to do so. When I was little, I did some incredibly stupid things too while trying to get back at my brother, like when I tried setting up a booby trap that involved a glass of water falling on him. Well, the glass tipped over on my mum instead, and I was left to explain what I had been doing. Kids get angry just like anyone, and people are notorious for making bad decisions when they're angry, and I think that is important to address.

Yes, there could have been more serious repercussions at the end, but I didn't think the Cutie Mark Crusaders got away with it. They did end up rolling into a pile of mud, and I suspect that if I'd knocked my glass of water over on myself instead of my mum, I wouldn't have gotten in quite so much trouble either. They didn't have to tell anyone that they sabotaged the float, Applejack and Babs didn't know about it until Scootaloo said something, and by then, they'd already explained how they knew what they did was wrong, including their reasoning as proof. I think Applejack's backhanded, "If you'd have come to me in the first place," line was acknowledgment enough. Think of it like this, if you're going to the beach and there are sharks in the water, someone could say "Hey, don't go in the water you dummy," or "Hey, there are sharks in the water," but the latter example is more likely to produce the desired result and doesn't insult anyone's intelligence or independence. If the CMC's hadn't just gotten finished explaining why they realized they were wrong, then maybe it would have been different.

[weesh]

Yay Physics!

DROPPIN KNOWLEDGE. The cars don't come to a dead stop though, they bounce a bit. So maybe it's not a 30 mph crash, but they do still suddenly reverse direction.

Certainly. But the way it was stated was deceptive. Two cars of similar size hitting each other head-on at 15 mph each is going to be very similar to hitting a thick wall at 15 mph. You may bounce in each case, but it is not similar to hitting the wall at 30 mph (off of which you will also bounce).

Note that the collisions are not even close to being elastic. Your car is designed to bleed off most of the kenetic energy by crumpling. Early racing cars were not deathtraps in collisions because they were fragile, but because they were so strongly built that they did not increase the reaction time with the object they hit. Well, and also the hundreds of gallons of fuel that they held to decrease refueling stops.

The point I am trying to make is that kids don't often think of the big picture or of all possible outcomes.

Suddenly, I find myself shifting blame from the CMC to someone else. Whoever taught these kids how to drive and make complicated and dangerous machinery was remiss in their duties. You don't teach someone to use a band saw with out training them how to cut things safely, and you shouldn't show someone how to make a vehicle without teaching them about the power they are being given.

[SonicRainb00m]

I would give this episode a 7/10. It was cute, and it conveyed its ideas about bullying and how to deal with it very well. However, I found it very predictable, as in, I could tell what would happen next as I was watching it...

It was good, but I liked Too Many Pinkie Pies better.

[Cadabra]

Suddenly, I find myself shifting blame from the CMC to someone else. Whoever taught these kids how to drive and make complicated and dangerous machinery was remiss in their duties. You don't teach someone to use a band saw with out training them how to cut things safely, and you shouldn't show someone how to make a vehicle without teaching them about the power they are being given.

That's right! Blame the parents! Why Applebloom, your mum and dad are... non present. Um.... Scootaloo! You little Scoot! Why I bet your mum and dad are just... non present. So... Sweetie Belle! Where are your parents little one? I've got bone to pick with them!

On a serious note, and one more pertinent to the show, those girls are giving a massive amount of freedom for their age.

[starswirlthebearded]

That's right! Blame the parents! Why Applebloom, your mum and dad are... non present. Um.... Scootaloo! You little Scoot! Why I bet your mum and dad are just... non present. So... Sweetie Belle! Where are your parents little one? I've got bone to pick with them!

On a serious note, and one more pertinent to the show, those girls are giving a massive amount of freedom for their age.

Let's face it... It was probably big Mac or Apple Jack who taught them. Hey! Maybe that's why no-one said anything! There was no way to reprimanded them without reprimanding themselves! It all makes sense now!

On a more serious note everything I was going to retort with was basically said, including the physics explanation (I both love you and curse you weeshy ). At least I know that I'm not the only one that had issues. And yes, I'm pretty much done with that debate. I feel like everything that could be said was to some degree. Clearly many do not share my views, but that is alright.

And unrelated... I watched the episode again, and not sure if this is possible, but I hated Babs's accent even more than the first time.

[Cadabra]

And unrelated... I watched the episode again, and not sure if this is possible, but I hated Babs's accent even more than the first time.

Oh yeah... dat...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[weesh]

That's right! Blame the parents! Why Applebloom, your mum and dad are... non present. Um.... Scootaloo! You little Scoot! Why I bet your mum and dad are just... non present. So... Sweetie Belle! Where are your parents little one? I've got bone to pick with them!

Let's face it... It was probably big Mac or Apple Jack who taught them. Hey! Maybe that's why no-one said anything! There was no way to reprimanded them without reprimanding themselves! It all makes sense now!

Heh.

As cadabra so eloquently put it, we certainly can't absolve the CMCs from blame. Anyone who would teach someone how to build something dangerous without teaching them to respect the power they are receiving isn't likely to realize that they had made a mistake in this situation. I can see both Applejack or Big Mac forgetting that. But ignorance isn't bliss, it is dangerous.

On a more serious note everything I was going to retort with was basically said, including the physics explanation (I both love you and curse you weeshy ).

I'm a physics ninja!

[Rosewind]

I'm a physics ninja!

I thought you were a tree!

[flutterscotch]

That's right! Blame the parents! Why Applebloom, your mum and dad are... non present. Um.... Scootaloo! You little Scoot! Why I bet your mum and dad are just... non present. So... Sweetie Belle! Where are your parents little one? I've got bone to pick with them!

On a serious note, and one more pertinent to the show, those girls are giving a massive amount of freedom for their age.

I think what you might be experiencing there is some values dissonance, and that might be part of the issue that some people have with the CMC.

They are much more akin to 10 year olds in the 80s than 10 year olds in the 90s. At least among people I knew that level of autonomy and lack of supervision was pretty standard, as was the penchant for hiding plans from adults. I think the writers are writing what they know, and haven't make the connection that it seems weird to some people.

[weesh]

I thought you were a tree!

Can't it be both?

Unfortunately, I don't think "green physics ninja rat bunny tree thing" will fit in the title over my avatar.

I think what you might be experiencing there is some values dissonance, and that might be part of the issue that some people have with the CMC.

Ah, thanks for putting a name to part of what I was feeling. It also drew it from the back of my mind where I wasn't quite aware of it. I had way more freedom than many of the modern kids that I know, and hearing the stories of my older friends I realize that I was relatively sheltered.

But why are the CMC given so much freedom? It seems reasonable given the close to utopia feel of the show. A lot of the restrictions that I had as a kid were reasonable precautions against activities that the guardians of the CMC do not need to worry about.

[Cadabra]

Can't it be both?

Unfortunately, I don't think "green physics ninja rat bunny tree thing" will fit in the title over my avatar.

GPNRBTT makes a good abbreviation.

[NoGiantRobots1983]

I was personally thrilled just to see a movie theater becoming canon. Being a videographer, this means OC pony videographer fan fics.

Personally, that bugged me. I thought it made Equestria unique that it was more or less "France as portrayed in Disney's Beauty and the Beast, but with ponies!" And then they go and modernize it. Now it just feels... wrong. Felt the same way in Mysterious Mare-do-Well when we suddenly had modern construction machinery.

Oddly enough, I remember Lauren commenting on this in an interview. According to her, she always resisted making Equestria too modern, and she also didn't like using "it's magic-powered" as a cop-out. I strongly agree with that sentiment.

On another note, CMC episodes have been bothering me for awhile. I loved them in "The Show Stoppers" and "The Stare Master," where they were just adorable little troublemakers. But now it feels like they're just the characters the writers trot out whenever they want to make a Very Special Episode. Here's hoping the upcoming Scootaloo ep is an "adorable troublemaker" episode, rather than a "message" ep.

[Dessa]

I think what you might be experiencing there is some values dissonance, and that might be part of the issue that some people have with the CMC.

They are much more akin to 10 year olds in the 80s than 10 year olds in the 90s. At least among people I knew that level of autonomy and lack of supervision was pretty standard, as was the penchant for hiding plans from adults. I think the writers are writing what they know, and haven't make the connection that it seems weird to some people.

Moreover, I suspect that in rural areas like Ponyville kids are given more freedom.

Truth is though that kids are no more in danger than they were when we were young. The media just sells that idea so hard that people have given in to fear.

[SunsetSombra]

[colour=#282828]Personally, that bugged me. I thought it made Equestria unique that it was more or less "France as portrayed in Disney's [/colour]Beauty and the Beast[colour=#282828], but with ponies!" And then they go and modernize it. Now it just feels... wrong. Felt the same way in Mysterious Mare-do-Well when we suddenly had modern construction machinery.[/colour]

'Hurricane fluttershy' first showed us the idea was already common, so it's not like this is new...Equestria's tech levels are usually more focused on 'rule of funny' when it comes to anything like that, since clearly it's far more lulzy to see a black and white PSA about wing power rather than have dash stand there alone.

Yeah, they could have used Spitfire here, but methinks the visual gaggery of a B&W Film entertained me far more in it's execution than that as an alternative.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Not liking stories that portray revenge is fine. I'm not saying that anyone needs to like the episode. I just don't think its fair to the writer to say that these themes are a sign of bad writing. Personally, I didn't like The Return of Harmony, and I avoid sad fiction like the plague, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are poorly written or mistakes. Revenge is a powerful and primal motivation that lots of people understand, and I think that's why it has a place in so many well respected works of literature and film. (Like Hamlet)

We can only guess at the writer's intent, because without an artist statement or a heavy handed letter to Celestia at the end to tell us the message we were supposed to learn, all we can really do is piece together what is said in character during the show. I certainly don't think anyone is arguing that Applejack was incorrect to suggest that talking to an adult is preferable to sabotaging a parade float, or that the plan was not dumb.

---

In other news, film has been around in some form since at least Green Isn't Your colour. It may not have been motion picture, but they certainly weren't lugging around dry plate cameras.

They probably could have done some things to make the theater more ponyesque, though they're clearly not too concerned about tech levels these days. Although the first public showing of a motion picture was all the way back in 1896, this place had more of the feel of the bowling alley from Cutie Pox. (Which I suspect is more the target feeling they're aiming for these days.)

I suspect if this had been in early Season 1, it would have been a live performance of some kind, maybe a play or a concert, and instead of doing something to a drinking cup something would have happened to the performers.

[flutterscotch]

Oh wow. I just remembered. Film is made from gelatin. Think of how dark that is for a moment.

[Bellosh]

Personally, that bugged me. I thought it made Equestria unique that it was more or less "France as portrayed in Disney's Beauty and the Beast, but with ponies!" And then they go and modernize it. Now it just feels... wrong. Felt the same way in Mysterious Mare-do-Well when we suddenly had modern construction machinery.

Personally, I don't really mind the tech levels and such just as long as Ponyville keeps its rustic charm in general. All the stuff in Mysterious Mare-do-Well may have been a bit excessive... but then again, that was a meh episode anyway.

[Cadabra]

Oh wow. I just remembered. Film is made from gelatin. Think of how dark that is for a moment.

Soylent Green the motion picture is made with Pony!!!

[elsporko]

I consider it bad writing because the writer decided that was what they were to do. I don't want to blame the characters. I feel like they would have known better. But that is just me. Perhaps their judgement was clouded by anger. But in the end the writer makes the decision what happens in the episode.

As for the other questionable things, I'd go though each of them. What annoyed me about this is that they chose to do it knowing it would adversely affect another. It was the malicious intent that bothered me, among the other glaring issues with the scene. Most other things that were done were not with malicious intent. Also a lot of them there was no other options or limited options. Here they could have done many other things in its place.

Are you saying any fiction where character doesn't use 100% looking at the situation after it happened logic and never makes a mistake is bad?

I guess anything where characters are guided by emotion or isn't perfect just isn't up to snuff