Does anyone want the Mane Five to save Equestria without Twilight?

[CommanderPonyShep]

For once, I'd like to see a two-part story-arc that revolves around the Mane Five having to save Equestria without Twilight or her intensely powerful magic. Every time the world needs saving, Twilight is almost always the only one to save it, almost at the expense of her friends, really. Granted, she did resort to somepony else to help her, including Shining Armor and Cadence (Canterlot Wedding), Spike (Crystal Empire), and the Human Five (Equestria Girls). And, even though people talk so much about the Twilight/Tirek fight scene just because of its resemblance to over-the-top fight anime like Dragon Ball Z (I'd rather compare it with the Twilight/Chrysalis fight in the comics, because the Twi/Tirek fight was more similar to that than DBZ), it showed that alicorn magic was inefficient against Tirek, and that Twilight alone cannot stop him without her friends.

But even then, Twilight is almost always chosen to save the world, almost at the expense of her friends and their capacity to become heroes in their own rights, especially without her. The reason is because she's the most powerful member of the Mane Six in-terms of her magic, so much that in some ways she almost became a crutch for the Mane Five. So for once, I'd like to see the Mane Five save the world without Twilight, because often times Twilight had to be separated from her dependency on Celestia as well, but rarely are the Mane Five separated from their dependency on Twilight. After all, there were plenty of other hero teams who were left without their respective leaders, like the two-part Season Two finale of Bravest Warriors, where the heroes had to stop the Eon Worm's return without Chris and his leadership, or Codename: Kids Next Door, where there were plenty of times the main team were left without Numbuh One's leadership.

Does anyone else want to see the Mane Five separated from their dependency on Twilight as well?

[GreatAndPowerful]

The Mane Five to me, aren't really that dependent on Twilight. I think they could try to save Equestria without Twilight, but I don't know if it would work.

It could be fun to see though. If Twilight was out of the picture, seeing them save the day to avenge her demise would be a sight to see.

A plotline like this could be very amazing, though we do have individual episodes where it shows each of them showing their strengths and their weaknesses in some areas.

[RarityDash]

Sure. Could be a fun plot line. I'd like to see Twilight's friends, who aren't as powerful as her, try and save the day with her somehow incapacitated. That could actually be rather cool.

I don't think the need for such a plotline is so incredible as all of the mane six get lots of individual moments to shine in the individual episodes of the show, but yeah, it could still be fun to see.

[brianblackberry]

It's almost like Twilight Sparkle is the main character and this is her story, or something.

[CommanderPonyShep]

It's almost like Twilight Sparkle is the main character and this is her story, or something.

Well of course, as implied by the Twilight/Tirek fight, and the way so many season openers and finales, and the first Equestria Girls, all constantly reinforce Twilight as the only solution to everything, at the expense of her friends. Hell, in "Princess Twilight Sparkle", when her friends came to rescue her from vines, they were just dodging them endlessly, while Twilight ruthlessly blasted one of them with her horn!

And, it's gotten so bad, that in each of those cases, the two-part openers and finales expects us to forget everything we learned about friendship, and trick us into believing godlike magic and brute force solves all problems. They also save the whole "friendship saves the world" thing for the end, even though we obviously know that that's going to happen, no matter how much it expects us to forget about friendship until the end. In other words, they're so ridiculously predictable. For example, Return of Harmony? That two-part opener expected us to think the Elements of Harmony can stop Discord, while forgetting that friendship was the only solution, not just the Elements alone, as if the writers think of us as stupid.

So for once, I'd like to see the Mane Five save the world without Twilight. In the process, they can get to the friendship message without saving it for last, and teach us from beginning to end, rather than the end alone, that you can't rely on intense magic, e.g. Twilight Sparkle, to always instantly resolve everything.

Also, off-topic, but why compare the Twilight/Tirek fight with DBZ, but not the Twilight/Chrysalis fight in the comics, since the latter was the same situation? You know? Twilight's friends are held hostage by the villain to gain her compliance. An external source enhances both combatants, only in that case a comet instead of other ponies' magic. A big magic fight where lasers blast everywhere.

[SteelEagle]

I'd like to see Applejack save Equestria by herself.

[RarityDash]

Rarity would be better. Or wait... Rarity and Dash together. Equestria should be saved with fashionable rainbows. It would be beautiful.

[CommanderPonyShep]

Rarity would be better. Or wait... Rarity and Dash together. Equestria should be saved with fashionable rainbows. It would be beautiful.

Or, all five minus Twilight. Again, Twilight's a crutch for the Mane Five, so they need to shake off their dependency on her, the same way she had to shake off her dependency on Princess Celestia on numerous occasions.

[RarityDash]

Nope. Rariity and Dash only would be better, because then then it can end have lots of shippy hugging and stares.

Besides, the best episodes in the show tend to focus mainly on just one or two characters. Trying to focus on five at once would just be awkward.

[QuickLime]

Fabulous Fashion Rainbows!

[GamerLuna]

The mane5 and Princess Luna go off to save Equestria whilst Celestia and Twilight sit around acting like overly important princesses being waited on hoof and hoof.

That would be a cool episode, nope a double episode.

[smileyface1010]

I want to see Derpy save the world. THE POWER OF MUFFINS!!!!

Seriously though, I think it would be nice to see the mane 5 save equestrian by themselves. Maybe Twilight could be captured and the rest of them have to save her or something.

Oh and by the way Shep, you do realize that in the season four finale, Twilight realized she couldn't defeat Tirek by herself. Her "rainbow connection" moment was when she realized they are most powerful when they're together

[Ashton]

I seem to be in the minority here. While I have no problem with them saving the day as a small group, I think the big-bads all need to be taken down by the group (and I'd like to see spike play an actual role in it, even when saving the crystal empire all he really did was essentially throw the crystal heart out the window (granted he was with it, making it heroic, but Twilight could easily have used her magic to do the same thing with the same effect, spike wasn't really needed) Because the whole theme of the show is the Power of Friendship. If Twilight's excluded, that undermine's the lesson "together we are stronger".

Now, as I said, minor problems? I wouldn't mind seeing a smaller group tackle and win those, and a "rescue twilight" would be a nice example of that --- but they can't beat the big-bad without her help as well.

[QuickLime]

The theme of the show is Friendship is Magic.. not "Hey lets go off and handle this by ourselves single hoofed"

Every single season opener and season ender save the best night ever has been about the Main six working together to handle a problem.

Nightmare Moon was only defeated when they worked together, Discord was only defeated when they worked together, Sombra was beaten when Twilight realized it wasn't about her needs and that the good of all was more important than her own goals, Chrysalis was them all working together, and Tirek was also only defeated when they worked TOGETHER.

One of us isn't as strong as all of us.

[Regiment]

Pssst, Rarity.

rarijack is best ship.

[RarityDash]

It totally isn't. It's mediocre at best. Too obvious.

Raridash is far superior.

[Halide]

Remember when Spike tried to take over Equestria and turned into a huge, terrible dragon? I wanna see that used to have him save the world. That'd be super rad.

[Alexandrite]

^{Hmm, I'm not sure if I would like that. I don't see the mane five as dependent on Twilight Sparkle, in my opinion. Sure, she does act as the leader of the group, but isn't that her role? Everypony contributes something to the group, and Twilight has always been the organizer. I don't think Twilight is more important or more useful than any other pony, but she is an important part of the group of friends. If she were absent, it would leave them vulnerable because they wouldn't have the organizer they are used to. The same would happen if any other pony was absent; for example, if Fluttershy wasn't there, they wouldn't have her animal-taming skill. It is no secret that Twilight is the main character, but that doesn't mean she is overpowering anypony.}

[QuickLime]

If Fluttershy wasn't there Rarity could still kick the manticore in the face

[CommanderPonyShep]

The theme of the show is Friendship is Magic.. not "Hey lets go off and handle this by ourselves single hoofed"

Every single season opener and season ender save the best night ever has been about the Main six working together to handle a problem.

Nightmare Moon was only defeated when they worked together, Discord was only defeated when they worked together, Sombra was beaten when Twilight realized it wasn't about her needs and that the good of all was more important than her own goals, Chrysalis was them all working together, and Tirek was also only defeated when they worked TOGETHER.

One of us isn't as strong as all of us.

I wish I could believe that. Unfortunately, as I keep beating you on the head with, the Twilight/Tirek fight scene was all anyone will ever care about, just because of its resemblance to Dragon Ball Z. Not only that, but no one cared about the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle, either, because the former bordered on Deus Ex Machina, while the latter replaced Twilight's library.

Seriously, when I watched DBZ, I thought Goku's fellow martial artists would be like his personal team, a la Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Justice League, and Avengers. Unfortunately, I was constantly proven wrong, because many of Goku's friends were constantly getting beaten up or murdered to demonstrate the power-levels of each new villain. And, the reason was because DBZ wasn't meant to be team-based, like Power Rangers and Ninja Turtles. It was almost entirely Goku's story, even if Vegeta and Gohan took up most of the spotlight with their respective story-arcs. That meant that it was a solo series.

And that's why MLP and DBZ are incomparable. MLP had more in common with Power Rangers, Ninja Turtles, Justice League, and Avengers, and in some regard Sailor Moon and One Piece, because of the friendship and teamwork motifs. DBZ, on the other hand, had no such thing, and in my opinion suffered for it. And to see people compare the Twilight/Tirek fight to DBZ would be like wanting MLP to abandon its core friendship motif, just to turn Twilight into a godlike savior at the expense of her friends.

Also, you forgot Sunset Shimmer. Twilight may have been prevented from bringing her friends into the human world with her, because their existence there could disrupt the balance of the other world and destroy it. But, she would not have recovered her stolen crown had it not been for her friends' human counterparts substituting for the originals.

[RarityDash]

I wish I could believe that. Unfortunately, as I keep beating you on the head with, the Twilight/Tirek fight scene was all anyone will ever care about, just because of its resemblance to Dragon Ball Z. Not only that, but no one cared about the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle, either, because the former bordered on Deus Ex Machina, while the latter replaced Twilight's library.

And what multiple people have tried to repeatedly get across to you is that: A) you shouldn't speak in broad terms when making an argument, like absolutely everyone thinks the exact same thing. It is simply not true. People have any number of divergent opinions about media and no one person can really definitely say who is right; B) Not everyone does think this; most people I know in fact had no problem with Rainbow Power or the castle beyond perhaps cosmetic ones that didn't ruin the core ideas for them; and C) whatever people talk about or think regarding what happened in the episode, does not change what actually happened. Even if people talk more about the fight, Rainbow Power still happened and is still a part of the greater story for FIM.

[QuickLime]

Shep really, nobody wants to hear your DBZ Argument anymore, you are just repeating yourself...

[Halide]

Ladies and gentlemen, the broken record of canterlot, endlessly repeating the same arguement again and again, in spite of being proven dead wrong on literally every occasion. An unchanging recording of the same singular, unwavering train of thoughts loop through this fanatic creature's head, cyclically revolving about one issue and one issue only. Though there may be tangents and thoughts about other conversations, there is a constant and relentless gravitation to the repetition of the same arguement.

Basically, you're a black hole of conversation, Shep, sucking the life and merriment out of a room as you cause a hyper-dense gravitational field over the sheer, intense nothingness that is your obsession with DBZ and one scene in one season of one generation of the series. I award you no points, and may the divine powers what may be have mercy on the rest of us.

[CommanderPonyShep]

Ladies and gentlemen, the broken record of canterlot, endlessly repeating the same arguement again and again, in spite of being proven dead wrong on literally every occasion. An unchanging recording of the same singular, unwavering train of thoughts loop through this fanatic creature's head, cyclically revolving about one issue and one issue only. Though there may be tangents and thoughts about other conversations, there is a constant and relentless gravitation to the repetition of the same arguement.

Basically, you're a black hole of conversation, Shep, sucking the life and merriment out of a room as you cause a hyper-dense gravitational field over the sheer, intense nothingness that is your obsession with DBZ and one scene in one season of one generation of the series. I award you no points, and may the divine powers what may be have mercy on the rest of us.

Yes, I admit it. I come up with the most insane logic on Earth that is often easily proven false. And, the reason I keep repeating that argument is because I thought I was defending it, even though I had no evidence to back it up.

Even if people cared about the fight scene a lot, even those same people noticed that it had an overarching point: Alicorn magic was ineffective against Tirek, and could only end the fight in a draw. So, the giant monster centaur held Twilight's friends hostage in-exchange for her alicorn magic, and in the process inadvertently taught his enemy a valuable friendship lesson that earned her her final key: That no magic in the world, not even alicorn magic, is more powerful than the magic of friendship. It was that same friendship magic that helped them unlock the blue box, rainbowfy Tirek, restore everypony's magic, and replace Twilight's destroyed library with a castle with seven thrones for each of the Mane Six plus Spike.

This isn't like DBZ, where raw power wins at almost absolutely everything. Goku defeated Frieza because of his super saiyan transformation, even though he outright refused to finish him off. It's that same transformation that allowed Trunks to finish off Frieza and King Cold in Goku's stead. Gohan also used raw power to obliterate Cell in his father's stead, and it took the combined energy of Earth's entire human population to power up Goku's Spirit Bomb and thus obliterate Kid Buu.

MLP and DBZ have completely opposite messages. Despite the fight scene, MLP is more comparable to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mighy Morphin' Power Rangers, Sailor Moon, and One Piece, due to its emphasis on teamwork and consensus building. DBZ, on the other hand, does not emphasize teamwork at all, as implied by many of Goku's friends getting slaughtered right up until he (or his son, Gohan, at the end of the Cell Saga) arrives to save the day at the last minute. And that's what I need to get into my head.

[QuickLime]

You've said that like 3 times but then go RIGHT back to harping on the DBZ thing