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Building a Better Role Playing Experience


Lux

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Hello all!

For those of you new to the sit, I am Lux! I've been role playing here for three wonderful years. I am also a member of the Helpstaff which means I help you create wonderful original characters to play in our three role playing areas (World of Equestria, Canterlot Chronicles and Free for All) and help to answer any questions you may have about role playing. Lately though as of the summer of 2013 I have seen a decline in role playing, mainly in World of Equestria and Canterlot Chronicles.

Now there can be many reasons for this such as the in between season time and maybe even a reduced desire to role play. Whatever the reason is I see this as a problem, and with any problem there can be a solution. But besides knowing what the problem is, we need to consider how to fix it. I and the other Helpstaffers can do many changes, but if it isn't what you the role player wants that these changes have been for nothing.

So let's have a little chat about this by answering a few questions.

  1. Why do you think role playing in general is declining?
  2. What can be fixed to ensure more role playing fun?
  3. What can you as the role player do to add to the fun?
  4. What non-role playing things do you want to see here that are MLP related?

With these questions it is my hope that we as the best My Little Pony role playing site can help to make this an even better experience for you the user of this site.

Thanks!

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I shall be as polite as possible. Granted I'm new here but I've been around the roleplay circuit for something close to eight years. I don't know the specifics of this site but I can give feedback in a more general sense. While my suggestions might come across as a little strong, honestly, I'm just trying to help you guys out. I have the best interests of the site at heart and I don't wish to slight anyone or cause anyone any insult. Hehe, I'm just trying to help, ok? Keep those crosshairs lowered if you would? Hehe.

Why do you think role playing in general is declining?

Well, inevitably when a TV show has a lull in their broadcast then people lose interest. I imagine people are stuck for ideas and have moved elsewhere. After all, there are a lot more bigger, much more general RP sites out there. While you guys have your free-for-all which is still being used, the MLP stuff is drying up simply because there is a lack of interest because of hiatus. Besides, internet roleplay is somewhat of a dying beast. I don't see it going away any time soon, but the medium of which it is conducted is changing. This is a trend across all kinds of forums though, not just roleplay sites. End of the day, social media is what is killing forums. But that's very much up for debate.

What can be fixed to ensure more role playing fun?

Easy, liberalisation of your current ruleset, because I reckon it puts quite a few people off. I know several people, to whom I've suggested to join me here, who have been put off by the sheer amount of rules which seem to strangle creativity.

Admittedly this has been over Christmas, but I've waited for a week and a half at least to actually have my character 'approved'. While I'm not complaining about the wait time, I will complain about the very idea I had to be 'approved' to RP. It sort of felt like I was applying for some sort of travel visa, and if my character wasn't good enough I'd be left in the country of 'Free for all' RP. Sort of like there has to be some sort of standard to be allowed to RP and you guys are superior to me because you're allowed in there. If that's a good way to describe it. Now, I'm all in favour of the idea that 'people should know some decent grammar' before they RP, but a gated RP circuit is not the way to solve it. World of Equestria works as a way to protect 'show canon and theme' yet people are allowed to play characters from the cast of the show, flying straight in the face of said canon. Then, to add insult to injury, only one person on the whole site is allowed to RP that character. But I'll get to that in a minute. Suffice to say, there should be no 'character application acceptance' for the 'World of Equestria' roleplay comparing terms of quality. If you want to RP with a quality RPer, then you should read their CS and decide if you want to RP with them yourself, not a moderator who probably has better things to do with their time. Application staff should instead, simply scan the CS to make sure it is in line with show canon and theme. They should be able to point out that it's not up to scratch, but they shouldn't deny it entry because of that. I've been in plenty of good RPs where character sheets haven't been half as long as they need to be to qualify for 'World of Equestria'. Even if you don't get rid of the 'gated roleplay' approach, get rid of the idea of junior/senior application assistants. It just adds to the bureaucracy, and it's too slow. Finally all 'World of Equestria' characters should be available for use in 'Canterlot Chonicles' since they've already met the criteria set for CC if they're in 'World of Equestria', there's no point in having a separate meetup subforum purely for both "worlds" as you were.

Now that is out the way I'll address 'Canterlot Chronicles'. This could be a good place to explore non canon RP such as crossovers, but once again it is held back by the 'gated RP' approach. It shouldn't matter about protecting some sort of site wide canon, that should be left for 'World of Equestria'. Because it is much more free, I would recommend there be no screening process at all. Sure, there will undoubtedly be a drop in 'quality' but ultimately it should be up the the RPers to find and make good quality RPs for themselves. Even if they can't and the site is flooded 'bad roleplay' as long as everyone is having fun, who cares? We're not writing the Iliad here we're trying to have fun with some characters we came up with. RPers should be trusted to come up with their own character designs. If people are inventing new lore for their characters then the RPer needs to be explicit about it and ultimately it should be up to the other RPers whether to accept that as canon for their roleplay. 'Canterlot Chronicles' should be opened up as free roleplay and everyone should have equal opportunity to roleplay as a cast character. After all, why shouldn't I be allowed to RP as my favourite pony? Sure, I shouldn't do it all the time, but you have to let people have their fun with it. Why should I be denied that just because I'm not quite as good as the other person who applied for it? Ultimately it doesn't matter, you're just limiting what I can and can't do. To an outsider, it makes me feel like you're creating some sort of social elite. That's unfair, and I'm sure it's not true, but honestly that's how it makes me feel. In the context of an ever present simulation that idea works, it doesn't work for forum roleplay where we have so much freedom. We're all telling our own stories after all, they don't have to be all related to the same one however, that just restricts what I can do. It doesn't matter if canon varies thread by thread and character by character, the roleplayer should be able to weave their character's story how they want it to. It might lead to confusion, but more freedom always means more fun. There just doesn't need to be this many rules. If you let people roleplay what they want, how they want, they'll have more fun.

What can you as the role player do to add to the fun?

As a roleplayer? Well I can... start roleplaying... and I can come up with interesting scenes for people to join. Not much else I can do. I'm willing to help out as an RP helper and provide feedback just like I'm doing, when it is needed.

What non-role playing things do you want to see here that are MLP related?

You guys already have discussion forums. There's not much else you can do. Some sort of site news network would be an idea, but I question if the site is big enough to warrant it. Could always do roleplay tutorials as well if you're concerned about quality of RP.

Now, I apologise if I sound a little ragey, or overly negative in my response. Suffice to say, this is my experience of this site's systems so far, and it isn't a good one. I suggested to a friend of mine that she join me on this site, but she was put off when I started going into detail about what I have already addressed in this post. I feel like these things are putting people off and I only wish to remedy the situation. I may very well be wrong and I accept that, but this is my idea of how to fix the issues you say you're having. Granted I haven't been here long so I'm not familiar with the specifics, but this is my view and my suggestions. I'm not trying to cause trouble or stir up things, I'm trying to help and I'm willing to work with you guys so I'd appreciate if you bear that in mind should you choose to respond to my feedback.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to put my views on this matter forward, even if you decide to simply discard this. But hey, I'm just being a pessimist. Hehe.

-Zealot

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Your response wasn't ragey at all. In fact I feel people need to be open with this site.

I will say that when you mentioned that cast should be available for Canterlot Chronicles, we do have a separate cast list for that area as a means to encourage others to play them. Is a pony claimed in World of Equestria? It may be available in Canterlot Chronicles.

As for the rules as to making a chaaracter and the approval process, this is to do a few things. One is to make sure all use a similar template so that their character's information can be read as clearly as possible. The next reason is to limit over powered or Mary Sue characters that break role playing encounters. Third its less of a hindrance and more of a way to check to see if more things need to be expanded upon or clarified than to restrict or deny things.

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Good, I'm glad. This being the internet though I find I need to be careful and explicitly say that I am just trying to help, else people tend to take things the wrong way and nothing productive gets done. Hehe.

I did know this but I don't think a separate cast list for CC helps the matter. That simply means at best two people can play a cast character, that doesn't mean that if I want to play as Twilight (for example) in CC I can, I'd have to go through a whole application process to play that character. Even if I get it, then it's unfair on everyone else who wants to play that character. What makes me so special? Fine, I'm a good roleplayer, but I shouldn't have to deny everyone else the opportunity to play the character. One could issue some sort of rota, but even then if a roleplay comes up that I think I'd like to play Twilight in and it's not my turn, then I'm left upriver without a paddle so to speak, hehe. Cast characters shouldn't be about a really good roleplayer getting to play a cast character, it should be about making sure everyone has the opportunity to play the characters they want to play, good at it or not. There's an argument that you can always take it to FFA, but as we know FFA comes with a certain stigma attached to it. I think it's equally unfair to, say, shove people's roleplay under the rug and class it as unofficial, even if it's good. At the moment CC is a place where the themes of MLP:FIM are suspended, it's already broken canon so why can't we break it a little more and encourage people's creativity and let people have fun with the cast characters. Let people play with the fun toys so to speak.

On approval process, sure, having a standardised template seems fine. Then again, I feel it should only be a recommendation. If people want to be lazy with their characters then you should let them, people won't want to RP with them if they do and it will teach them they should do better next time and follow the recommendations. If people want to make mary sue characters, that should be fine too. After all, people can choose not to RP with them and you guys can always make it perfectly clear what it is recommended people do. As long as everyone is having fun then there's really no argument not to have whatever character you want. There could be advice sections, recommendations, templates, the RP helpers could take a forward role in that. I think that would make for a much more positive and a much more engaging experience for newer roleplayers, rather than just a set of 'do not' rules that intimidate even seasoned veterans like myself.

I can understand that you're trying to bring up standards and everything, but I don't think you should be trying to, in a sense 'police quality'. People are very put off by that and it makes you sound like you think you know everything so to speak. It doesn't help that the rules are written in a very formal register, it makes it sound like you're trying to hamper my creativity with what you want me to do. You're not as you say, but that's the attitude I got when I read the RP guides and rules. If it was, lighter, more positive, more free, then I think it would make for a much more enjoyable experience. Than as I previously compared it to, a customs gate, hehe.

Again, I really am just trying to help here and you did say I should be open so... hehe.

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Just to clarify to all, I'm not an admin or a moderator so I don't make automatically many of the rules or implement them. I do make sure they are being followed and that they are up to date and make sense in the rules area. I can propose new rules too and they would get decided on.

Having said this I am interested in this discussion about the rules and role playing guidelines having to of course abide by them when I role play. The main reason why I haven't participated in Free for All is because back when I started there was just World of Equestria and Free for All. I saw WoE as more to the canon and the feel of the series which is why I chose that. I'm also personally not a big fan of crossover things preferring to keep these separate. Again this is my opinion but nevertheless I treat Free for All as just as essential an area as the others. And seeing that this area is used more that the others I can say that this thread area carries more weight.

Specifically though it seems that character creation is an issue rather than role playing itself in World of Equestria or Canterlot Chronicles. Or is there more to this than beyond once a character is approved.

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Allow me to add my own tow cents in here. Keep in mind that my opinion is also warped by personal perspective.

In my own feelings, the biggest missing thing of 2013 was lack of site wide events in the spirit of the previous years. After Winter Wrap up we got basically....well...nothing.

In vein I awaited new iteration of Iron Pony, Running of Leaves, Nightmare Night, Heartwarming and Hearts and Hooves day, especially after so much enjoyable Nightmare Night of 2013 that brought us amazing plot twist. Such events happen to have influence beyond their time borders. I myself, and many more are recalling after mentioned NN 2013 in our RP's, milking it for all it's worth it. Not only that, limited time of such events more or less for players from their lethargy, making them much more active. I understand that it being a collaborative effort, and having to work on it moth before the time can be draining, but certainly it will be worth it.

Of course not all events have to be seasonal. In my opinion the biggest missed opportunity was 'Gems of Eternity' a simple topic in newly opened Gatherum. What killed the idea was making in my opinion it closed (limited to Princesses no less) RP, while it had potential to be site-wide Crisis Crossover. I partially agree with good Zealot here. While we should more or less kept ourselves to show cannon, I see no harm to shaking up status quo a little from time to time before returning to it. It worked well with 'Gems' inspiration, the 'Infinity Gauntlet'. Especially since FiM has IDW comics series on it's own. While I understand staff desire to keep RP resources to an extend available to everyone - namely, animated series itself - the outside show material brings so much lore and potential that ignoring it feels like a waste. Keep in mind that it's still officially licensed material, not some crazy fan-fiction.

But back to that status quo thing. I have to point to our World Map. It's very different from the official one, isn't it? It being basically a merger of Europe, United States with some Caribbean and Africa thrown in for good measure(and the griffon lands that resemble nothing at all). Yes it is, and it's a good thing. While I understand it's a relic from the time when Canterlot was in it's infancy, it's one of this deviations from cannon that brought us only good things. Would anyone now imagine WoE without Stalliongrad? Or Aquelia? World building is not an easy thing, but that should be least of our worries when FiM already gave us alternate dimensions mambo jumbo. Throwing some Asia or Australia inspired continent wouldn't hurt in light of such things, non?

And least but not least Ponyville, or rather tendency of RP'ing there and nowhere else. Of course it's understandable now, especially in the event's of Season 4 finale when it more or least, became independent City-State, in vein of Monaco or Luxembourg. But as I pointed above, the Equestria is much, much bigger then that, and ours is even larger. This one is basically answer to point 3 you gave Lux. More players should stop tucking away in the Ponyville, the setting that is established on the site is much bigger then that. It brings lot's of potential too, since unlike the the chilly little town, the shown only delineated the other places. And if you want to kept yourself to what was established in show? There is Dodge Junction, Appleoosa, Cloudsdale, Manehattan and of course Canterlot itself (although it's slowly approaching the Ponyville problem). In short, I think players should be encouraged to make their OC's live in other places then Mane Six home town.

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1. Why do you think role playing in general is declining?

My guesses here would be primarily that the show is currently off season. There does seem to be a big connection between overall activity and where we are in the cycle with the show.

Other than that, I get the sense that some of the long time forum participants are proportionally less active than they used to be, either because the lose interest, real life issues come up or there's just more for them to address as the forum goes up in size. I can't confirm this mind, so it might not really be true, but it's the sense I get sometimes.

I doubt there's anything to do about these, if they're true.

2. What can be fixed to ensure role playing is more fun?

I dunno. Ciraxis brings up events, which are probably a good point though it gets to the aforementioned, increased workload. While events are fun, someone has to organize them, and so I'm hesitant to make a demand it. Maybe a solution is to shift that more toward the players, opening up a forum for even planning and discussion, so players can organize there own.

3. What can you do as a role player to add to the fun?

The things that come to mind, are I have a couple long term thread ideas I've been on-and-off designing. I could finish those and try to get them started, though I'm hesitating for the moment just because I have a few other threads I'm in at the moment which I want to pay attention to.

In general...I'm not sure. I think more thread ideas and discussion thereof might help. At least in CC, which I tend to inhabit, I know of a number of people who I'm pretty sure are up to thread participation but there seems to be a lack of threads getting started to an extent.

4. What non role playing things do you want to see here that are MLP related?

Nothing really, I think the discussion thread handles that for the most part. The closest I can come up with is maybe a sub-thread for organizing gaming groups (board game, pen and paper, video games), but that's only something I could see myself browsing every so often. I don't know if it would actually add to the forum.

In response to Zealot:

I half agree with you. I agree that FFA (probably) has a stigma, and that there's a problem, but I'm not sure that the solution is simply to discard the rules for CC and WoE. If nothing else, wouldn't that render CC and WoE redundant? I think we'd basically only need the FFA section then, if that's the case.

Personally, I kinda like the rules in CC and WoE, though I like to think less out of any sense of superiority and more that it enforces a standard of posts and ensures a certain amount of continuity.

The other thing that strikes me though, is that as intended FFA should provide everything you're looking for in a roleplaying forum. There should be room for both types of roleplaying, which leads me to conclude that the real issue to be addressed is the stigma FFA.

The only things I can come up with, are players starting more in-depth threads in FFA, and maybe reorganizing that forum a bit. Personally, I find organization based on time period to be a little arbitrary, and maybe it would work better if it was organized by type/length of thread people wanted to participate in. I think that might provide ways to ease people in as well as create sections in FFA where people could find threads which suited them.

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Indeed, the questions definitely need to be asked though Scootalux. Character creation is too slow and it's demeaning to the roleplayer. For example, in my recent experience. I'm trying to get 'Glimmer' through the WOE gate so I can start an RP. Unforetunately, I have to wait because my other recent character is still 'ready' and 'accepted' but hasn't been moved to the 'accepted applications' section. This has left me stuck essentially, just because I have to get a mod to go and do all this stuff for me which will undoubtedly be a little redundant. The gated aspect certainly limits what you can do with RP and it puts off people from joining.

Err, yes, Derpraverner. Unfortunately you won't get rid of that stigma of FFA. It's too engrained into the psyche and it's too easy to pick up on it. My proposed changes simply mean that any MLP roleplay that isn't canon goes into CC, FFA is left as a place for you to do anything else basically. WOE then becomes the 'if you want to roleplay canon you go here' section. Sure you'll get people slipping the net and not putting their RP where they're supposed to, but that's what the mods are for. In many ways yes, it gets rid of the quality control, but that's not something you should be doing in the first place. I've seen sites where they have very strict gated RP approaches and more often than not, they dry up because people don't like having to obey all these rules they see little point in and the ones that made the rules are left wondering what happened. It shouldn't be up to the admins or the mods to judge people for their quality of writing. If you want 'quality' roleplay posters then you should go and find them yourself or help people get better. It sort of makes it sound like it's creating an elitist club, as you say, you're not, but from an outside perspective certainly then it doesn't help. After all, roleplay is a gateway to teaching people how to write is it not?

Either way, the gated RP approach is outmoded and hampers creativity in my experience and needs to go. Whether or not that should happen, I don't know, I could be wrong. We certainly need to have this discussion though and hopefully not have it ignored.

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FFA currently is a place where you can do anything else, which I think would make CC redundant if one removed the restrictions. Anything non-canon, MLP or not, can go there, though non-MLP stuff might be kinda odd to include here. I'm not convinced Canterlot.com needs a full section dedicated to non-MLP roleplaying, given that you can do a lot if not all of that in FFA already. So if that's the way you're going, it would probably be easier to remove CC altogether.

Alternately, one could keep the themes of the current forums of the current forums, with WoE being strict canon, CC being loose canon, and FFA being anything it wants to be, and just remove the player restrictions.

Here's the thing though: I actually like the application process. Okay, granted the need for admin action past a certain point can be a little irritating and slow things down slightly, but overall I think of it as a positive thing. On some level, you can only fail the application process when you quit. If a character isn't up to the standard, they aren't rejected outright but rather sent back for a round of edits, almost always with helpful comments. The only time I've seen someone just shot down is when they broke a site rule. I think that can be a great source of feedback. That you say it feels demeaning catches my interest, as that's something worth investigating if it could be corrected.

The appearance higher and lower social status I agree is unfortunate, but I consider it an acceptable cost of the current system, which I think encourages a certain level of effort and thought, and helps maintain some continuity.

Here's the thing about the FFA stigma: I'm not entirely sure what it is. I've actually had a couple of really good threads there, and I'm actually planning to run a thread there myself, eventually. The reason that I don't spend much time there, is that I just don't find threads there I want to participate in that frequently. I still browse it occasionally to see if there's anything I'm interested in, I just happen to find a lot of threads there that I'm not interested in, and for the moment I'm busy enough with threads outside of it that I don't feel the need to seek out more that much. I'm perfectly willing to play there.

On that basis, it seems to me that (for what stigma there is) either the stigma arises because FFA doesn't have the rules that WoE and CC have, in which case removing the restrictions probably wouldn't help anything, or FFA has an image problem unrelated to its function. So then my next question would be, what is the stigma of FFA and is there anything we can do about it?

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This might be a bit of a messy post, all the issues are getting tangled together... hehe. Nice to see they're all connected though.

Alright clearly people here don't know the stigma of FFA roleplay and indeed 'open' roleplay. Basically the idea stems from the whole concept that 'anyone can join'. The internet seems to think that's a bad thing because if anyone can join then all the bad people and all the people who aren't good at roleplay will be there. Being scared of bad quality roleplay and trolls essentially. I don't blame them for this, if you look at some of the bigger roleplay sites, their FFA section is a mess of illiterate roleplayers, post order breaking and trolling. Ultimately that's why people decide on these 'gated roleplay' areas, because they want to keep the bad quality out. There's just no need to go all high control on everything. I always maintained that education is the answer to that particular problem.

Anyway, I kind of see where you're coming from but I don't think I'm explaining myself fully in regards of the split purpose of WOE and CC. I was going to propose that CC be kept for all loose canon roleplays, including crossovers. FFA would be the domain of if you wanted to roleplay something else, other than MLP. While the site should keep it's focus on MLP, I think it's silly to completely deny anyone if they want to roleplay something completely unrelated, so I think FFA should be the place to do it.

This does sort of shift the stigma onto CC and somewhat onto WOE as well, because although even though they're meant to be in keeping with some level of canon, they are still free. Which is fine, but to combat this we would need tutorials, tutors, recommendations, templates to teach people standards, as opposed to denying them altogether or hold them at the gate of a laborious checking process. I'm sorry but it doesn't hold up people 'slightly' a week I could spent Rping is not 'slight' in my book. While it is a good source of feedback, some people don't need feedback. It just keeps them out of the game for a week or two because someone needs to tick a box and it makes them feel like the mods think they're better than them. Ultimately it doesn't matter if they're up to some person's idea of 'standards' either. Sure, it's nice and we should be teaching people to be better RPers but to keep someone out because they're not good enough simply alienates them and makes them want to leave. Then again, like I keep saying, you don't have to RP with these people. It isn't anyone else's problem but their own, and we should support them in that as opposed to just giving them a bar to jump to. Which has quite a negative feel to it. You know. People don't want to pass tests, they want to create something and expand on their creations.

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Maybe not people, it could just be me.

And I'm not convinced that's the entirely the case here, as opposed to other parts of the internet. So maybe it's a question of how FFA appears to people who come here after other sites, and we need to find a way to give it a more positive first impression. But that's presentation, not how it's organized.

I got the distinction, though it took me a moment. I probably should have made one of my points more clear though. And I'm gonna be taking some educated guesses here, so open call to correct me if anyone thinks I'm wrong.

My understanding is that this site is an MLP fansite first, and a roleplaying site a close second. As such, and combining that with the fact that there aren't actually any rules against non-MLP roleplay in the FFA area, I don't think the site needs or would really be improved by a dedicated non-MLP section. So, either we wouldn't need CC because FFA could handle both non-canon MLP and non-MLP, or CC should maintain it's current role of partial-canon/light-canon (something between WoE and FFA basically) and FFA could handle both of the other categories.

Something worth mentioning, is that the different sections don't bar others from types of threads. So, any thread one could have in WoE could just as easily be had in CC or FFA, and the same for CC-like threads in FFA. So, not being able to RP in WoE or CC shouldn't limit one's ability to RP, except with maybe one or two things (participating in that particular continuity is the only thing that comes to mind). If it is the case, a week's wait shouldn't be that bad, since it shouldn't stop one from RPing for the most part. If that's not the case, that probably bears investigation.

This site actually has a number of resources for new players: a few people have written guides if I recall, and there's the questions subforum, though there might be a problem in that they aren't immediately obvious. Requiring beginners to seek this sort of thing out, when just starting is a time when they're least likely to know what to look for, might be a problem. But a) I don't think that could replace the application system and b) I still say the application system is a part of that education/improvement side of things.

One doesn't need to be a master wordsmith to get into either WoE or CC. I've seen people with a range of ability levels there. I think it's as much about making sure people understand the themes/attitudes of each, and are willing to put in the effort to maintain that. On that basis, I don't think it's a question of a skill gate. And again, if a prospective character doesn't meet the standards they generally aren't rejected outright but are given constructive criticism, the idea being that the cycle continues until everybody's happy with the character.

This isn't about whether or not I want to play with specific people. I'm all for helping people improve and playing in the FFA section, when I see the opportunity to do so. I think the application system is overall a good idea, even if no idea is perfect, and I'm trying to defend that.

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The discussion here seems to be going along a subject a little askew to the OP's questions, but I think it's worthwhile to hash out, and I'd like to add my own two cents.

I'm an admin on another, smaller, dedicated RP forum (www.feila.org), and I've had a chance to observe the dynamics of such. In my experience, whether or not an RP is "gated" has little to do with the retention of new members. Feila has no 'approval' process for characters as such, certainly nothing like WOE's. We have a suggested template, but never enforce it. There's site lore, but it is there for reference and not enforced. Nevertheless, only about 50% of those who post in the Welcome board stuck around long enough to RP, and the number is halved again after 6 months.

Speaking from my own personal experience, I didn't find the gating off-putting in WOE.

On the other hand, I am inclined to agree with Zealot somewhat more on the issue of cast characters, though with a few caveats. Some cast characters are much more in demand than others. There are quite a few who want to RP the Mane Six, but I was the only one who even bothered to app for Prince Blueblood in either WOE or CC. Same holds true for those who want to play with them as those who want to play as them; an open thread with Applejack gets more participants than, say, His Royal Highness

Thing is, a lot of those characters tend to go to members who generally already have a lot of characters, and a lot of threads, but they don't post in each thread very often. That means there are fewer opportunities to RP with them, and since RP with canon characters is one of the big draws of a fansite, the slow pace of threads wherein one finds them has a dragging effect on the whole. Plus, it does give the impression of a kind of aristocracy when one sees the same group of RP'ers get all the important characters.

That kind of discourages other people from even bothering to app them. Rarity is a great RP'er, and I love how the characters they have are portrayed, but if one feels that one's own posts are below that standard, one doesn't bother to even try to put in an app when a Mane Six character becomes available.

Plus, I feel in the case of some canon characters, the app process is less of a creative expression of one's interpretation of a character as much as it is an exercise of research and summary. One of the reasons I took up Blueblood is that I had a lot of latitude for my views upon him; he only had one appearance, so I had less worry that my opinion of him would seem 'wrong.' Not so with Twilight Sparkle. I'd be more inclined to app more prominent characters if I felt that I didn't have to do so much homework.

Honestly, I'd like to see a return of the system which mandated that each canon character got at least one post a week. If you can't meet the schedule, let someone else have a turn! At some point, especially when one is trying to maintain the life of an RP community, quantity takes a priority over quality.

And that's the basic issue, as I see it. Now that I'm working, I'm not able to reply daily as I used to, but I still try to be as prompt as possible when I can. When threads drag because you're waiting on another member, its hard to get back into the habit, and having to come up with an appropriate reply to a 6-paragraph post (of which I have been guilty myself) when they finally do reply is an exhausting prospect. Generally, there are only a small minority of people willing to stick out that sort of thing, which creates sub-groups of RP'ers, which does nothing to help the health of the site as a whole.

Which is why, as Ciraxis, pointed out, site-wide events are important. They break up sub-groups, and encourage the participation of the whole. They introduce new possibilities for character interaction, and new relations between members that might never had RP'ed together otherwise. For Example, DerpRavener and I started a kind of story during the last Winter Wrap Up, which has gone in a rather unexpected but quite fun direction. I'm not sure we ever would have joined in a thread together if it wasn't for that. That's just one of many examples I could cite personally.

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I'm glad to see a lively discussion. I encourage this.

Just a few quick points I'd like to make in regards to things said.

  • FFA - By design, Free Roleplay will always be exactly what people make of it. I don't personally understand when people say it comes with a stigma. The entire point of the area is that it is unconstrained by rules. This allows the roleplayers to set the rules for their own threads. You decide who you play with and the style of play. If someone isn't playing up to your expectations, you are perfectly in your right to tell them to adjust or stop. I don't think this section or its potential should be pushed aside and I also don't think it would be in our best interests to remove restrictions from the other roleplay sections, designed to provide a more uniform roleplay experience and make them redundant next to it.
  • The Application process - The application process is indeed a sort of gate into our WoE and CC games, but there's no reason it should be intimidating, especially not in CC where it's usually a simple test to see if the user is literate enough to correctly fill out an application (unless they're doing something really out there with their character). It's important to us to help us see that our users are not going to fill the games with characters who might be problematic in the game for one reason or another (overpowered, friends with all the cast characters, etc). and more importantly, it's useful as a test to see that our roleplayers are willing and able to follow the rules we have laid out and adjust for them, which is a very important thing for cooperative play. When it comes to the process being slow, allow me to apologize. Our Roleplayer Helpers are all just regular members who have volunteered their time to help the roleplay run. They are there to assist you, but there will be times when they are busy and unable to help.
  • Events - as a member of the event team, allow me to personally apologize for the lack of events this year. There was stuff planned that never started and a lot of frustration all around. We enjoy doing events and think they are a fun thing for the site. We just really ultimately want to keep them special. All our attempts to bring you something new and unique fell flat this year and we didn't feel it would be especially satisfying to just rehash previous events unchanged for the third or fourth time. We are honestly working on this though and sometime soon we should have an event ready for you which will be entirely new.
  • Cast characters - I can understand the frustration here. While I would say that FFA exists as a place where anyone can play as any character, and that set cast lists are a good thing for cohesion of an RP world and creating interesting webs of character relationships and plot lines, I can definitely acknowledge that things are not ideal at the moment with cast characters due to inactivity making a number of them limited in visibility. This is on the cast players to correct it. If you have taken on the role of a character for one of the major sections of the forum, you should do all you can to represent that character for the forum; if you are unable to, you should consider freeing the character for someone else or adjusting. As for the several characters going to the same people, I've seen the problem. What needs to be emphasized is that the process is done entirely blind for those voting. The people who vote have no idea who the applications are from. If people frequently win it is because they frequently put up applications which are deemed to be of a higher quality. It should also be emphasized that in many cases we only receive one or two applications for a given character.

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I'm on one or two threads in FFA myself, crossovers with the Exalted and Mutants and Masterminds RPG systems. I can attest to the fact that one can get a good quality thread going, though I will admit that if I had not noticed that the OOC threads were set up by players that I knew from WOE, I would not have bothered. I think the stigma comes when/if one sees prominent roleplayers of high quality that post in all boards except that one.

I'm thinking about volunteering myself as an RPH, come to that. I don't know how much I'll be able to do, but at least I'll be able to do something.

Looking forward to the new event!

I know the voting process is blind, and that the pool is often shallow. As things stand now, I don't think a lot of members are confident in their odds regardless. It doesn't help that a lot of apps for cast characters that might not be winners probably would be more competitive if a little help/feedback were given, like with OC apps, but the blind submission process doesn't allow for that detailed back-and-forth. I'd like to see a more open discussion on potential cast character apps, and a chance for feedback before submission. I think that would make for a wider variation, and greater participation.

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I'll agree with Rackenhammer (yay, felia, I RPed there a few years back, hehe) about this thread being a little off topic now. There are a lot of ideas I've brought forward that I can see people are thinking about and there are flaws with my way of doing things and this guy's way of doing things and whatnot's suggestion ecetera.

Suffice to say we need to have the discussion about 'gated rp' and 'cast characters' and the ugly sounding 'elitism'and even the exact role of each section of the roleplay. I'm proposing a lot of radical changes to a lot of different areas and we need to condense them all down into their own separate streams. I think we should park this here for now and move the discussion elsewhere and let other people put in their ideas, as was the OP's wish. I think we need to research the prospect of liberalisation and maybe do some trials so we can sort out what exactly works and what concessions will have to be made etc. Keep the discussion going and all that, just not in this thread, time for us to sidestep because I can see it will go on for a while, hehe.

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I'm on one or two threads in FFA myself, crossovers with the Exalted and Mutants and Masterminds RPG systems. I can attest to the fact that one can get a good quality thread going, though I will admit that if I had not noticed that the OOC threads were set up by players that I knew from WOE, I would not have bothered. I think the stigma comes when/if one sees prominent roleplayers of high quality that post in all boards except that one.

I'm thinking about volunteering myself as an RPH, come to that. I don't know how much I'll be able to do, but at least I'll be able to do something.

Looking forward to the new event!

I know the voting process is blind, and that the pool is often shallow. As things stand now, I don't think a lot of members are confident in their odds regardless. It doesn't help that a lot of apps for cast characters that might not be winners probably would be more competitive if a little help/feedback were given, like with OC apps, but the blind submission process doesn't allow for that detailed back-and-forth. I'd like to see a more open discussion on potential cast character apps, and a chance for feedback before submission. I think that would make for a wider variation, and greater participation.

The current system really doesn't allow for much feedback on cast apps, which I acknowledge is a problem. We try and give feedback on apps that don't win when it is requested, but the system for collecting it is pretty broken; I ask the voters for feedback to give and often times I am given no response. That's aside the point though. The system as a whole is designed with fairness most firmly in mind, and that's fairness in that the most qualified get the character. The general feeling we have is that the person who gets the character should be the best person for the job. I think that's why we keep feedback limited. As it is now, when a vote ends, if there is no winner, the character opens back up to the entire forum so that anyone can apply for that character again. if we were to work directly with someone on a cast app like we do with OCs, others who might develop an interest in the character could be blocked off as we work with the one who came first. it's the same reason we draw it out so much, with two weeks needing to pass from us getting the first app for a character before we do anything with it. We really want to make it so that as many different people have as much of a chance to apply for the cast character as possible before a player is decided.

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I know, I'm just not sure the system was built to solve the issue of fairness is well-equipped to solve the problem we're facing right now, which is non-participation. About the only solution I can think of for feedback, though, that non-voting RPH's and such could provide feedback via PM, would put an extra burden on already-overworked volunteers.

Honestly, I personally think there might be some merit in weighting more heavily a cast app from a member who currently had no cast characters, or according to how often they could actually post, but I suppose that was something the staff already discussed. I can say myself that I'd rather have a decent Mane cast character that posted often, than a fantastic one who was less available.

Getting back to the original topic, though, I think a general encouragement of regular and broad participation would make RP'ing more fun for the whole site. Kind of obvious, but there you are.

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I know, I'm just not sure the system was built to solve the issue of fairness is well-equipped to solve the problem we're facing right now, which is non-participation. About the only solution I can think of for feedback, though, that non-voting RPH's and such could provide feedback via PM, would put an extra burden on already-overworked volunteers.

Honestly, I personally think there might be some merit in weighting more heavily a cast app from a member who currently had no cast characters, or according to how often they could actually post, but I suppose that was something the staff already discussed. I can say myself that I'd rather have a decent Mane cast character that posted often, than a fantastic one who was less available.

Getting back to the original topic, though, I think a general encouragement of regular and broad participation would make RP'ing more fun for the whole site. Kind of obvious, but there you are.

This is a good point and one we have to consider. I think our current system was properly designed to respond to things we observed regarding our game, but our needs can and likely have changed. Change in the speed and nature of the game was the impetus for Rose's decision to relax cast check rules not too long ago. There is clearly a lot that could be discussed regarding such things.

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Wow, thanks for the outpouring of ideas! I feel if issues aren't talked about then it appears as if there aren't any problems and things don't get solved. Having said this, a couple of points to address:

  • FFA - I think the stigma is that because it is an "anything goes" RP area then people will see poor role playing and over powered characters. I know this isn't the case and i do believe people can moderate themselves. And if there is a person who does power game, then others can moderate this person. I'm personally not a fan of Crossover role playing which is what I see mainly here. I'm also not interested at this time with non-MLP role playing. Perhaps splitting FFA into three sections, MLP, Non-MLP, and Crossover would make thing clearer and allow people to see that they can play there.
  • Cast checking - In the past cast characters were checked based on how active each character was. The problem lay in the fact that when threads were slow or even stalled there were times that a player got a warning for not having an active character. This happened to me with Zecora a few times. Now the relaxed cast check is based off of player activity which is far more relaxed.
  • Gated entry. I agree with Rarity, this is not meant to say "You can't play your character" but that to see if a person is able to write well enough to role play. Once a person has a character rarely is there much moderation needed as people are able to moderate themselves in the process. Having said this yes, character approval needs to be faster.
  • New players. Yes, it is sad to see that most of the new members join and even create a character but soon disappear. I would say that much of it is due to decreased role playing largely in WoE and CC but I can't really tell.

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As the one who did the cast check and saw character by character activity, I am 100% in favor of reinstating the rules as they were. To be frank, changing them has turned out to be somewhat of a disaster. A lot of cast don't post or post very slow. This has a cascading effect- one person who doesn't post slows down everyone else, and before you know it everyone involved is warned. The issue now is that players can be active- but are less so than ever- but characters not so much in theory and practice, so you have that slowdown ever increasing. This then boomerangs and hits those who are perfectly willing to post but can't. The cycle continues.

Playing cast should be a responsibility but it is one we have allowed people to shirk. The system we use now is not as good as the one we abandoned, it is just more convenient for those playing the characters at the cost of the forum. Cast activity and engagement is one of the strongest aspects of the site and one we must keep at the forefront. I'd be in favor of the old rules, even the old cast limits to a degree even if it means I would have to drop a few characters.

Events wise, as leader of the Event team, let me apologize. We had several plans for 2014 that fell through, including one that we had perfectly ready to go that was done away with at the last minute. That same malaise that struck the RP struck the creative juices of those involved here as well. We've resolved to make 2015 better, with an event coming...soon. Lore wise, same deal. 2014 saw a lot of malaise and creative frustration but we actually have a lot in the pipeline that should release soon.

In general, my ideas for how to improve the RP in 2015 come down to those who have the responsibility. We need to be quicker on apps. Those with cast need to be better about posting in a timely manner with their characters and in their threads. We who build events must be more consistent. We who write lore must be more consistent. Outside of that realme and onto more topical matters:

Apps- I'm very lenient in my app approval process since I tend to be half in Zealot's camp...half, mind you. It has always been my contention that bad roleplayers or bad characters will suffer because of their own poor creativity. The good will always surface. So in that respect, I'm in Zealot's camp in as much as I don't think there are negatives to losing the apps. But on the flip side, I agree with Rarity and I also believe there are positives to keeping them. We have rules- not just for the RP but the forum- and we want to make sure people have a semblance of grammar. The Application Process lets us know more about the player than the character and that has always been more important. The only real changes I'd suggest are to fellow staff to be less picky at times and more importantly a lot quicker.

WoE/CC/FFA- FFA's stigma is the same stigma that applies to every FFA like environment in the world, so tbh it doesn't matter. The wheat and chaff will always separate and people have fun there, so who cares? In regards to WoE and CC, I think they're fine. I'm always for more expansion and boundary pushing. Cast wise I'd be open to alternative proposals, though again I would rather there be a set limit on how many of any character is around.

Cast applications- We know nothing about who applies but we tend to see a lot of the same people apply. I would be all in favor of having names attached so we can discuss if certain people will be active enough. Of course then you open the door to any bias, so really there is no perfect system. Public voting is an option but I don't believe would be any better.

How players can help: A LOT. You want to run an event? Running of the Leaves 2012 wasn't an official event. I ran it as a normal user. Contact us to see if we have one planned and if not, heck, I'm all for player run stuff. You want to get involved in Gems of Eternity? Message us with your idea. This goes for a lot of things. Don't be afraid to contact us for threads or characters. You want to create a wrestling organization? Do it. You as the players dictate the terms of your enjoyment and involvement. I made a name for myself when my first OC had a long and successful RP with a cast character, who I asked to play with. I rewarded his faith with quality RP and a good pace. I then made sure to keep at it. I have so many ideas now it hurts, a lot of which should come to fruition soon. The point is that you as players can do so much. Want to have pirates duking it out? Want to DO ALL THE SHIPPING? Just be persistent, be kind, and realize that you are ALL masters of your own destiny. Let your ambition flow.

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About that voting bias...how about this idea.

Lets say that half of the judging team would see who written it, and other half don't. Both of those chosen at random for whatever cast character is open. These way, one half can see from prism of cast characters, already belonging to specific user, while the other could focus on quality of the application itself.

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Hmm. I'm in favour of Ciraxis's idea in terms of the vote system there.

Of course, I'm against any idea of having cast characters 'assigned' and I think that encourages elitism. That aside, the way I would do it is to have a single admin give applications to a range of judges. That admin knows who they are, the judges don't. The judges rate the quality then give it back to the admin who then invites another couple of people to help decide on who ultimately should do it. I think these volunteers would have to volunteer themselves for this but it would be best if they were taken from the newer members or members who don't necessarily know the people who are applying.

But yeah, a vein of mixing the 'who knows' and 'who doesn't know' is probably best.

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1.Why do you think role playing in general is declining?

I will use a lot of personal experience, so it may not apply to a lot. For me, I enjoy more violent/darker themed/Actiony Rp's, which isn't really the 'chalk and cheese' of World of Equestria, and while Canterlot Cronicals has much to offer, I am a fan of having the flexability

of creating/inventing to help the Rp progress, and hence cannot stick to the lore/cannon/rules of Equestria as presented in the show. Again, this is from an entirely personal view

since those are the kinds of Roleplays that catch my interest.

For a newer person, the large number of rules and rescritions that are on WoE and CC could be a put off, and I will admit, this website just takes some time to understand how to navigate,

not saying the staff don't do their best to help, but stuff takes time to learn.

2.What can be fixed to ensure more role playing fun?

This section is hightly subjective, since i feel like many people may have different answers. But honestly, as a staff member, there isn't much you can do to 'fix' since (From my position) it's Human impact that

can ruin a roleplay. I will admit i'm guilty of some things that i think make Roleplaying roll my eyes occasionally, but again, i am guilty of it hence i am a hypocrite.

People not replying in topics (I am guilty, Lux knows this personally), people replying in single lines with (seemingly) little thougt or care in it (I was guilty of this in my earlier Rp days or when i'm ill).

People creating 'mary sues' to name a few, all of which i'll put my hand up and admit i am guilty of all 3.

So from a staff position, at least in my opinion, there is nothing you can 'fix', since there are no rules on how people post in Rp's and enforcing such rules is near impossible.

3.What can you as the role player do to add to the fun?

What I try to add in the Roleplays that i run is player interaction. so what a Character does, impacts how the story line opperates. It makes the person feel like they're important, and that's the most important part.

The person has to feel their important, their character is important in the world, and hence, their actions matter. I also let other characters have freedom, in Rp's with a more sketcy storyline, i let others usally dictate the story

unless i feel like it isn't going anywhere, then i'll try prompt us back to the overlying story. But that's just how i view it.

4.What non-role playing things do you want to see here that are MLP related?

Urrggh, ummm...I mainly come on this site to Roleplay, occassionally other stuff, but mainly that. I'm afraid i'm near useless here <3

Annnnyyywwaayy that's been my views on this topic. I would be more detailed, but i'm jetlagged like hell and can't/don't have time to do a ton of work on this reply due to other committments.

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I think this site could benefit from the system on the Role Player Guild. Which is to have a free, Casual, and Advanced section of RP. They are listed with these standards.

Free

No standards. For roleplaying involving one-liners, few-liners, speed-posting, and for anyone who doesn't want to have to worry about standards. Roleplays that don't fulfill Casual standards are moved here.

Casual

Medium standards. Roleplay here if you enjoy writing at least a paragraph or two, character development, and some depth. Casual RP is more laid back and lighthearted than Advanced RP but more moderated than Free RP. It's a good fit for most roleplayers. Acceptable spelling and grammar required.

Advanced

Strict, highly moderated roleplay with elevated standards. Advanced RP focuses on longer posts that include character development and coherent writing ability.

Now despite the fact it mentions moving threads that aren't to the standard. Most RP'ers just stick to the section that makes the most sense to be in. Plus all the sections had a standard of length and post time to them.Free having an average of short posts with very high frequency of one like post every 5 minutes. Casual having an average of a paragraph to two long post with a day between posts. An Advanced being a page or more long posts with several days to a week between posts.

Most people start in free to learn RP, and usually move to casual as their writing improves enough to meet average quality standards, and then the really dedicated writers move to advanced for there story length like posts and high standards.

Now no one had to move to the higher standards if they didn't want to. Many writers I knew who could write at a casual level would stay in free, because they liked the posting frequency. The same went for some advance writers I knew who stayed in casual for the day to day posting frequency.

Now this is only something to help quality control in the NAN(No Application Needed) areas, but I think having standards of quality could help interest and allow players not to fall to the stigmas of the AN(Application Needed) areas being the only source of quality.

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