Crystal Faire 2015 Feedback

[Hawkeye12]

But you could do other things like a joust, or horseracing and the like. Hehe.)

Horseracing.....

[Ciraxis]

Personally I enjoyed both side of the even. Mostly things I could add was already written by others. I just wish that the first part would be a wee bit longer. I regards of caribou themselves, they really seemed like invincible villains at the moments. I understand it was so the plot would hold together but it made a bad taste.

Other thing is that - again - it was cast character that saved the day, at least from my point of view. As such it feels like that others, whatever they did were just extras until the plot resolves itself.

My opinions about the future events.

If you make surprise twist, how about something wonderful happening.

Second, even without cast characters, or at least big guns. Allow the B List to take a stage.

[Zealot]

If we were going to get defensive and argumentative over anything, I don't think we'd have had Corsair start this thread in the first place. I think everyone involved acknowledges that there were some problems in the execution of this event,

Glad to hear it. That makes me feel a bit better about the situation. I'm happy to work with you guys in making sure the next isn't so... hehe, yeah. If you wanted my help that is. I know I'm still new but I've helped with this stuff before.

Horseracing.....

That awkward moment when you realise what you typed...

Other than that, I agree with Ciraxis's points on no cast characters, or at least letting the OCs take centre stage. I'd prefer the latter. As well as the whole something wonderful thing happening. That reminds me of one event in particular which was pretty good, all things considered...

[RarityDash]

Hmm, I'm kind of surprised by this piece of feedback. For the most part, I thought we did good to let it be someone other than the cast to save the day in the end.

Sure, we had Cadance and Shining in the Sombra thread, but stuff like the plan involving the foals played such a huge part in how it was allowed to wrap up in that thread. In the Spire thread, I suppose it was a cast pony who ejected the Jarl from the spire, but it was a minor cast character, my Maud, who did it (and with an OC character's help), not someone who'd be expected to play the role; Twilight certainly didn't recover to do anything herself.

And then, yeah, for my thread, the only cast character in the thread was incapacitated halfway through. I helped out a little in the resolution with my OC, but for the most part I left it entirely on the players to wrap things up.

[CaptainMcDerp]

So many good points have already been made so instead of repeating them, I'm just gonna like their posts and attempt to say something new. But aside from the flaws already mentioned I personally found both sides of the event to be very enjoyable.

OC development: Momo in particular is gonna need an app update due to the profound affect it had on her. She went through quite the character arc before it was over, going from stealing the princess crown in order to become a super villain, to helping rescue the princess from a real super villain. Now instead of wanting to take over the world, she wants to protect it. I was actually gonna make her get her cutie mark during the thread but figured it might be against the rules. Not many people can put a Sombra invasion in their character's cutie mark story.

August never dreamed he'd be willing to sacrifice himself for complete strangers. And usually that's true. But not when it comes to kids. This is the first time he's ever seen children in danger. His willingness to save him surprised him since he views himself as a ruthless ruffian. He's probably got some soul searching to do. Plus, I'm gonna update his appearance. Now he's got some scars and possibly a blind eye. Sure it was only because he was terrible at fighting trained caribou warriors but no one has to know that.

Future event suggestions:

Went I first joined Canterlot, Quicklime had made a "Candy Cane Kissing Game" thread that might be interesting as an event.

Enchanted comic books are a thing now. Perhaps an event could be made about characters joining different stories and trying to solves puzzles to get to the end?

I don't know if these were already events at some point, but what about the Equestria Rodeo, the Running of the Leaves, or the Equestria Games?

[Bellosh]

I was actually gonna make her get her cutie mark during the thread but figured it might be against the rules. Not many people can put a Sombra invasion in their character's cutie mark story.

There is nothing in the rules preventing foals from earning cutie marks during RP situations. If you'd like to edit Momo's app to include a CM story based off the Crystal Faire event, you have permission to do so. And as Princess Cadence's WoE RPer, I say unto you that you're free to mention her involvement in Momo's story.

[CaptainMcDerp]

There is nothing in the rules preventing foals from earning cutie marks during RP situations. If you'd like to edit Momo's app to include a CM story based off the Crystal Faire event, you have permission to do so. And as Princess Cadence's WoE RPer, I say unto you that you're free to mention her involvement in Momo's story.

Awesome sauce! I'll do just that once I design Momo's cutie mark.

[RarityDash]

I don't know if these were already events at some point, but what about the Equestria Rodeo, the Running of the Leaves, or the Equestria Games?

We've done Running of the Leaves a few times now, to the point where we've really been looking to do something different.

We did an Olympics inspired Iron Pony event before the Equestria Games was a thing in canon, but not an actual Equestria Games event, though we did consider doing one a few times.

[starswirlthebearded]

We've done Running of the Leaves a few times now, to the point where we've really been looking to do something different.

We did an Olympics inspired Iron Pony event before the Equestria Games was a thing in canon, but not an actual Equestria Games event, though we did consider doing one a few times.

You know when you think about it.... two of our past events were based on one episode... Fall Weather Friends... I'm not sure how to feel about that...

[DerpRavener]

Thanks for the feeback.

That said beheading is the one moment I mentioned that I really kind of regret doing. I did it because I wanted the act of giving an order to kill to a mindless weapon to have consequence and it seemed a quick and easy way to go about it. I purposefully gave no detail of the blood and gore for that, saying the caribou just lost his head, but really its just such an inherently violent image that I really think I should have gone about it another way. if given the opportunity, I definitely think I could have done the thread without that moment of violence. Sorry to those who took part in my thread for taking it a step too far at that point.

I also get what you're saying with the dual timelines. It does create a conflict of interest. I still think it was a move in the right direction from Nightmare Night, where we sprung the changeling invasion in threads and didn't even provide the space for alternate stories where it didn't happen, but it is definitely something for us to reassess.

As for the last point, personally, I think having non-combatants getting involved in a dangerous situation creates a lot of the fun of this kind of thing. If it's an announced combat thread from the start, we're only going to get characters looking to fight, which will mean it's just fighting, which might not be as much fun. What we really want to see, I think is problem solving, going for innovative ideas in response to a situation and not just going straight to the fighting. I was really pleased that in my thread we had stuff like the fillies throwing pies and eventually using music and fireworks to help rally everyone and turn the tide, not to mention Flux's fun sort of Pinkie Pie-esque approach to facing her opponent. I fear we might lose that if we start to draw more clear cut lines between combat and non-combat events.

I might have misspoke a little, I didn't find any of the actual descriptions too much. What I found was the issue, really, was that nothing was put in overly gorey detail, there were a number of things that happened which I couldn't imagine in anything but a gorey way. Examples being things like: Cyprianus (sp?) killing off one of his own wounded to raise it as a skeleton, and what happened to the wurm.

On the timelines issue: I get the idea of giving people the option of participating in that aspect of the event or not and I agree it's a good sort of option, I'm just not sure divergent timelines are the best way to do it. I'm guessing everyone went into this knowing something would happen to the sponsored threads, just by virtue of them being sponsored. With the way things were handled here, I was a little unhappy about having to choose between either functionally abandoning a thread or trying to manage to isolated timelines simultaneously (I ended up going with the former). I don't want to tell anyone what to do, but if I were running an event such as this the way I'd manage it is from the very beginning create (at least) two threads, one which will be subject to some interference and one which won't, and then let people decide whether or not they want to take the risk. Maybe with a bit of forewarning about the sort of surprise it would be, so people aren't choosing completely blind.

The last point probably bears some clarification. I wasn't suggesting dividing things into combat and non-combat threads, and keeping the two sets of characters isolated. I agree that part of the fun is having traditionally non-combat characters in a combat situation. The issue I was hoping to bring up is more like this: the caribou as portrayed in the event, can largely only be dealt with through combat. Yes, there were some exceptions and improvisations such as the aforementioned pie-throwing distraction, but for the most part the only thing one could do against them is fight, or maybe flee. Now, I understand that this can be tricky, but what I'm thinking is maybe include adversaries that lend themselves to more non-combat solutions as well as combat. As a couple hypothetical examples, maybe the caribou force was made up of a few factions, and a clever character could notice this and try to convince one or more group to either quit the field or switch sides, or maybe instead of a wurm Cyprianus summons a demon of some sort, which opens a possibility for characters to find and perform some sort of banishing ritual. We basically saw some of this in Party Ends, I just found that it was as much despite who the attackers were as because of it.

As for future events:

Hard to say, for me. I liked how this one built up events dealing with the overall setting, so a part of me wants to see more of that though for the moment I'd rather something built around espionage or intrigue rather than direct combat.

My initial thought is that at some event or gathering it's discovered that a changeling has replaced somepony important (so, a bunch of major cast characters as suspects, maybe) but we don't know who. So it's up to the players to try and find clues and root out who was replaced and what the goal is. I'm not certain on the specifics, though I'd want to gear it toward non-combat, so the plan would be something like stealing a powerful artifact or getting an infiltrator into a position of influence.

Other than that, the only thing that comes to mind is: the Grand Galloping Gala. Not the event itself though, so much as the episode, where basically everything was going wrong in small or humorous ways, and the idea is that characters have to try and keep the event (or their part in it) running smoothly as the chaos builds. That's still a vague concept though, and I'm not sure what the actual event for that would be.

[IceStorm]

Other thing is that - again - it was cast character that saved the day, at least from my point of view. As such it feels like that others, whatever they did were just extras until the plot resolves itself.

I didn't notice this that much through the event, but the only thread I was in/paid attention too in the event was the Spire, and my OC Ice Storm probably had one of the most important roles in that thread which was getting their princess out alive. Because while we as players know nothing could happen to the princesses, it doesn't mean our characters share that knowledge, so from an in character stand point, getting on of their princesses that was barely clinging to life out of a collapsing building while two potently adept mares held off the primary thread while another duo of OCs held off the invasion at the stair well. I will agree that it shouldn't be only cast characters that come to shine in events like this, but I don't really think that was the case too much here.

Now, one big thing I do wanna shoot down is we need to realize that board canon, and what we expect on the forums, is a lot different from MLP Canon, and more importantly MLP Lore canon. While the main motifs of each episode is usually up beat and cheerful, the undertones, and the depictions of events past are actually quite dark and from what small amount of Equestrian history we've actually seen from the show, and from the lore that the show itself has documented, invasions like these do happen. Tirek, Chrysalis, Nightmare Moon, Discord, Sombra's first invasion, (and second attempt once the empire was restored in the show,) The Ursa, The Parasprites, were all technically invasions. Tirek, Sombra, and Discord were the only widespread invasions where as the others were restricted to mainly just to Ponyville, but I disagree with the statement invasions aren't and should not be canon. The shouldn't be to the scale that this event was, but it makes the world we play in more realistic, because Equestria itself is not perfect. (Remember, each individual episode of ponies itself is dedicated to fixing something that's gone wrong in some way.)

So yeah, nothing wrong with having invasion plot lines as long as it's not every major event that happens. I wouldn't mind seeing more Holiday events, or more events that pull ponies together without having to resort to any sort of violence, like natural disasters. The Equestria games would be kinda cool, but there are a lot of coastal cities in Equestria. I'm sure that the pegasi can only control the weather that's actually in Equestria, and even then not all of it, as we've seen with the everfree forest. So things like Hurricanes, and random pockets on inclimate weather like with what happened in winter wrap up, should be more common. Those would be fun. Also, perhaps some events like The Crystal Faire again in the future, but perhaps without the invasion, and actually let it run as a faire. Sometimes events just need to run through without any major set backs or problems so that at the same time, it shows that Equestrians are responsible and adept enough to run at least something without having one major event go wrong. Sometimes the best events, are the ones that are just simple and uneventful.

[Rosewind]

I think it is important to point out that roleplay is done on a basis of communication, especially with other players. There must also be a mutual understanding of consent between all players so if things are getting a little too real, everyone is capable of dialing it back a bit. Events can be frustrating because we have players with different ages, skill levels, experience, and personalities all jumping into something together. That's both a good and bad thing, but I think it's important to consider.

In retrospect, I'm excited to see a lot of passion and activity out of this particular foray, even if a few players might have been nudged outside of their comfort zones.

[Zealot]

Hmm, I'm kind of surprised by this piece of feedback. For the most part, I thought we did good to let it be someone other than the cast to save the day in the end.

Hmm, that's the problem with cast characters, they're difficult. To be honest, my view is that they should be there to help drive roleplay and interactions, they shouldn't be integral to the plot. After all, if I wanted to see Twilight and the gang solve all of Equestria's problems, I'd watch an episode of MLP. Roleplay is 'our' adventures as it were and while it's fine to have cast there as background noise, it takes the fun out of it if they're going to be the ones to win the day. I go back to Dungeons and Dragons as a good example. The the DM puts in an NPC who is the hero and relegates the players to supporting cast, the players will get annoyed because it's no longer about them. Sure you can say this is 'site canon' and therefore an alternate universe which is darker therefore the characters are different or whatnot. But, again I sort of don't want my character relegated to supporting cast just because. It's boring being background noise, which I suppose is what I'm trying to get at. Hehe.

But yeah, I think the main things for future events are no 'surprises' and no 'dark'. After all dark is an acquired taste and, like Rosewind said, events need to be tailored for everyone.

[QuickLime]

I don't think it's fair to regulate people who play as Cast characters to the background, unallowed to really participate.

[Bramble Rose]

As context for this: When I was on staff, well before the shift in administration, the idea for the Canterlot Chronicles had been brought up, and cross-area events, and I mentioned ... several problems with the idea, but three of them were:

1 - if they did these crossover events, and they were inherently grew darker to accomodate the CC, we'd have ... exactly what happened here.

2 - ponies would be exposed to things in the CC-themed events that would then be part of their story ... but which are banned from WoE.

3 - events like this would be an advantage to CC characters who might be OP or more battle oriented, leaving the WoE ponies feeling useless.

At the time, the response from most of the rest of the staff was either silence, or an active opposition to any nay-saying. I was actively told to shut up or there would be problems, and that "we'd figure it out" and "that wouldn't happen." And then it did happen. And no one figured it out. It's one of the big reasons I stopped contributing to staff and eventually left - no one was interested in working together on stuff like this.

I bring this up not to get kudos for my foresight, or to get vindication for my Cassandra Complex, but to show that ... offers from the staff to listen to feedback ... do not hold much merit to me right now. And I'm not even sure what we *could* do now to fix many of the problems. CC already exists - it'd create problems to try to eliminate or seriously change it now. If staff had been interested in fixing these problems before CC was created, it's entirely possible we could have made sure stuff like this didn't happen. We could have brainstormed for some solutions, perhaps made it in such a way that it wouldn't have been such a problem.

As it is now, exactly how far is staff willing to change things in order to fix the problems? Without knowing that, I really can't even begin to offer even ideas for solutions. Are we changing the rules for CC? Or are we just changing how events work?

Anyway. Specifically about this event.

The good thing about this event is that number three didn't happen like I was scared it would. The most influential events were non-violent. The bagpipes, the magic show. Those seemed to have a rather positive effect - perhaps the largest of effects. And perhaps I'm biased by my thread, but in my thread, the solutions were via the non-cast characters.

Now, the bad.

As everyone else said: the violence was ... what ... the ... heck?

I got a lot of useless reassurance before CC was created, and it has started again now that the event came to pass that ... "You don't have to add anything from the event to your character's canon if you don't want to."

Frankly, that's a very POOR attitude. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We're building a board that has a relatively common history and canon to it... so now we've hit something which highlights this exact problem. An invasion. A major, major event, something that changes Equestria and the lives of all ponies who were in it.

Except... does it? Cause one pony might later bring up in conversation, "This is what I did during the carribou invasion, where were you?" The other pony can hardly say "What carribou invasion? There was no carribou invasion." But if they don't want it as part of their history ... then what? it's a tangle. The whole strength of the 'canon' RP areas as opposed to the FFA is that all the threads have a shared canon. We're working on a cooperative story here .... but what the staff is actively encouraging for people is to NOT work together, NOT generate a common canon, and to try to force your own personal canon over any board canon when interacting with other ponies. To splinter the board canon into a whole lot of little subgroups and cliques who agree on what THEY want to be canon, but can't really interact in many ways with any of the other little subgroups and cliques, because ... essentially, though they're in the same forum area, they're not in the same world.

And you might ask, "how often would it really come up?" Does it matter? We're supposed to identify these problems ahead of time, we're supposed to try to create a feeling of unity and togetherness in building the board canon. Ignoring these problems makes people who care about unity and board canon feel very unappreciated. If we're trying to build ourselves up as a group, why are we encouraging board members to splinter off of the group and not be part of it? Second, even if it doesn't actually come up in RP, just knowing that the pony over there might not actually be in the same world as your pony ... just removes that sense of building the canon and adding to the show. Because there IS no such thing as canon anymore.

If you want to do events which have absolutely no effect on board canon ... why are you doing it in the board canon area? Why not do an FFA event if you want something like this?

One thing I'd really love to see answered ... is what *exactly* is this blatant 'darker' and 'edgier' attitude supposed to accomplish? What is it supposed to add to the feel of the site? The answer I got before is "It'll draw more people to the site and to RP." ... OK ... and it'll chase people away from the site and away from RP. Why do we want priority on this type of person instead of what we already had?

I, for one, do not intend to participate in any more 'crossover' events, period. As much as my actions during the invasion were appreciated and contributed in a (relatively) non-violent manner, reading the posts in between just left me feeling squeamish and uncomfortable. A bit dirty. And reviewing the other threads - I was in the least offensive thread! I'm not opposed to violence, mind you. even in WoE, I have some sort-of-violent threads with Doctor Whooves involving monsters and somewhat creepy, if also goofy or cute, monsters. But there's a certain *feel* to the sort of violence that I use - it's non-permanant, it's cartoonish ... or it threatens through implication instead of through actual demonstration.

Perhaps worth mentioning is the MPAA quote on violence in PG-13 movies:

there may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence.

But as soon as we try adding more 'realistic' violence to the site, where does that go? How realistic is the abilities of ponies, hrm? How realistic is the physics in their world? The physics of Equestria literally runs off of friendship. That is the core aspect of My Little Pony: That good things happen when you do things the right way. As much as Rainbow Dash's uselessness in this world sometimes annoys me because the world itself seems slanted against what are very valid responses for our world ... that doesn't mean we need decapitations and bombs that suddenly do chunky salsa instead of leaving ponies blackened and staggered with a smoking and crisped mane. There's a lot of leeway for a more violent feel to ponies without ... losing the cartoonishness and subtlety of the original show.

Which, to me, actually brings up a third problem with the event.

A lack of imagination in what was used and how to word it.

Now, not to say there wasn't some imagination going on. The idea of barbarian carribou is pretty awesome and stuff ... and unlike most, I don't really mind the concept of the 'electricity' thing. Though the vocab used on the electricity could have been used a LOT different to fit into ponies better.

What it was:

"Without delay, King Sombra made use of his dreadful magic to electrocute the crystal imprisoning Princess Cadence, causing the mare to wither in excruciating pain. While the crystal itself prevented anypony from hearing intelligible words, it proved most effective in amplifying the sounds of tortured screaming for all to discern." And then it kept going and going and going."

What it could have been:

"Without delay, King Sombra made use of his dreadful magic to bring lightning into the crystal imprisoning Princess Cadence, causing the mare to jerk and twitch under the storm of tiny red electrical bolts. It lasted for only a few moments before he released her again, letting the threat stand on its own merit as Cadence slumped wearily against the inside of the crystal prison."

These are essentially the same scene. But the first is not PG-13 - it is R. It is a realistic depiction of what happens when you run electricity through a living being's body The second is more appropriate to ... Star Wars or My Little Pony. The wording that was used in the event was very focused on "Look how nasty and vicious I'm making it!" It was focused on real-life concepts of electricity used for torture - not a similiar concept of how a cartoon character or The Emperor uses lightning to a very similar effect.

As for what was used... the suicide bomber was a very, very bad idea. Again, that is not at all PG-13, not in the slightest. It doesn't matter if it was using 'diamond batteries' or whatever. That was a very realistic depiction of violence, and the *attitude* behind it was ... even worse, no matter what method was used for a suicide bomb. What would have been far superior as a way to take Twilight out of the action, and feed more to the 'frozen northland' feel of ponies, and most importantly not have a pony commit suicide like that ... would have been, say, some potion thrown at Twilight that would have splashed over her, encasing her horn and chest in ice, and slowly spreading over her until she was completely encased in a frozen prison.

Why are we resorting to realistic depictions of violence instead of applying a little imagination and caution to make it into a less realistic and more cartoony, more pg-13 level of violence? Why do we want 'R' violence here? PG-13 movies do not, generally, have battles with violent deaths all over the place, no matter how those deaths occur. The most violent PG-13 movie I can think of, and I went hunting through IMDB looking at movies, would be the 1989 Batman. A lot of people died in that ... but it was not realistically. They pushed the limits, but only a few people died - the Waynes, of course, because backstory, and then a few people from joker venom or the handshake of death. The Waynes were realistic. The Joker's victims ... were not. They were pushing the bounds, but they were carefully presented in a cartoony manner, even though it was a live action movie. Admittedly, I may be missing some war movies that show lots of realistic deaths that are PG-13. I'll leave it to others to find them. But the ones I can find are R.

Could the staff perhaps give a PG-13 movie or two that represents the feel of what they were trying to accomplish with this event?

[Zealot]

I don't think it's fair to regulate people who play as Cast characters to the background, unallowed to really participate.

I'm not saying they can't participate, I'm more saying they should be used as side character. Just sort of relegate them to semi-NPC status, there to encourage roleplay and help steer the plot. Of course, there should be nothing to stop a roleplayer from roleplaying with that character, it's part of the fun of roleplaying a featured character after all. All I'm saying is they shouldn't be allowed to take centre stage, unless there's something the players should be reacting to. After all, nobody is forcing anyone to play a cast character... It's a choice and a responsibility. After all, I think there should be nothing wrong with loaning out cast characters to other roleplayers for their own private roleplays as long as nothing major is going to happen to the character. Used as a utility if you will.

As for everything that Bramble Rose has said. Well, maybe it's just a problem of crossover events. If you want to protect canon then maybe there should be WOE and CC events, with CC being board canon and WOE being MLP canon. I mean personally I don't care much for the board canon, especially if it's going along the same themes I saw at the event. I know that probably sounds bad for the writers of the canon and those who like it. But I'm sorry, I don't care and I'm quite happy to ignore it in personal threads. If something world changing happens like this event then I'm happy to pretend it didn't happen until it comes up or effects one of my characters. Still, I tend to keep to myself so it's unlikely they will. I'm not even sure which is relevant in what section to be honest. There's always the possibility of handwaving it and ironing out the details of canon OOC after all.

At any rate, I agree with everything else Bramble Rose has said. In fact, I think it fits my attitude to a 'T' hehe. Though I was trying not to be so blunt about it. Hehe, no offence to the aforementioned. I guess that's understandable though.

[Bramble Rose]

I am a very blunt sort of a person. I have no skill in either picking up or delivering subtle hints. That is an accurate view of me, and no offense is taken for accurate observations.

Additionally - I do not mind individuals who wish to have a 'personal board canon' and do not want to necissarily pay 100% attention to 'official board canon'. However, I do have a problem with staff who feel that everyone should work that way and encourage it. Individuals should be given leeway to do their own thing, but the staff should encourage people to want to pay attention to board canon.

[Corsair]

First, Bramble, let me say that I agree with many of your points. I personally felt that the violence in this event was too excessive for CC or WoE. I did not like the references to blood, death, and dismemberment. What I disagree with is this:

I bring this up not to get kudos for my foresight, or to get vindication for my Cassandra Complex, but to show that ... offers from the staff to listen to feedback ... do not hold much merit to me right now.

I dislike the implication that I, and by extension the rest of the RP staff, are LYING when we say we are listening.

This event has been a constant topic of discussion in the staff Skype rooms for the past two weeks. There have also been several posts in the staff forum about what to do during the next event, and solidifying what is and isn't allowed in CC roleplay. I can assure you that yes, the staff IS taking this to heart. The next Event RP will most likely be more low-key and slice-of-life, but any further 'action' events will be clearly labeled as such, and the more graphic violence will be toned down.

Remember that the people in the RP Staff are just people who are here to have fun too.

[Blueblood]

OK guys, time to de-escalate from shots fired...

Though this exchange does kind of demonstrate how one experience can color personal perceptions going forward. Given Zealot's feedback, I think it will be important to realize that every subsequent event may be someone's first event. It's a showcase and introduction for the site as a whole.

[Zealot]

Additionally - I do not mind individuals who wish to have a 'personal board canon' and do not want to necissarily pay 100% attention to 'official board canon'. However, I do have a problem with staff who feel that everyone should work that way and encourage it. Individuals should be given leeway to do their own thing, but the staff should encourage people to want to pay attention to board canon.

Yeah I mean, it would probably be better if there was something to encourage me to want to know about board canon, but seeing as how there are no world plots going on I find it hard to have a reason why I should care. Hehe. But anyway, fascinating as the idea of tying in a world plot with events is I feel this is a little off topic. Unless OP wanted us to keep expanding on that of course.

As for everything else that has been said I will hold my reservations, even if I have had my faith shaken, in check until I see where the dice fall. After all, I'm willing to give this another shot if everyone else is. But yeah, we should probably lower the crosshairs as Rackenhammer said. This line of inquiry likely won't get us anywhere productive.

[Bellosh]

These are essentially the same scene. But the first is not PG-13 - it is R. It is a realistic depiction of what happens when you run electricity through a living being's body The second is more appropriate to ... Star Wars or My Little Pony. The wording that was used in the event was very focused on "Look how nasty and vicious I'm making it!" It was focused on real-life concepts of electricity used for torture - not a similar concept of how a cartoon character or The Emperor uses lightning to a very similar effect.

I don't know; I think for this one issue, we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I didn't find much difference between my depiction and your alternate depiction. As for the Emperor in Return of the Jedi, yes he did indeed wanted to torture Luke before finishing him off. Otherwise he'd have just a Force Choke and be done with it. But that's a debate for another thread.

PS: I almost forgot that one scene in The Empire Strikes Back when Darth Vader subjects Han Solo to a torture device. While it wasn't actually shown on-camera, you could hear Han's screams in the background. Just a little bit more context as to how I determine whether something's violent or too violent for a particular rating.

[Ciraxis]

I don't know; I think for this one issue, we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I didn't find much difference between my depiction and your alternate depiction. As for the Emperor in Return of the Jedi, yes he did indeed wanted to torture Luke before finishing him off. Otherwise he'd have just a Force Choke and be done with it. But that's a debate for another thread.

And let's not even start with Revenge of the Sith that - surprise! - have PG-13 rating too.

[RarityDash]

Could the staff perhaps give a PG-13 movie or two that represents the feel of what they were trying to accomplish with this event?

Can't speak for the others, but for my thread I was definitely in fantasy mode, my mind stuck in the later entries in the Harry Potter series when it came to Cyprianus and his magic (the cruciatus curse was a definite reference for the spell he shot at Sugar Star) and on the battles in the Lord of the Rings films for most everything else, with the weapons swinging, the monsters flying around wreaking havoc and the ominous armored figure lurching around.

As acknowledged earlier, I do think there was one moment where I exceeded what I should have had happen, and I am sorry for that. For the most part, I really tried to keep it from getting too graphic though.

[IceStorm]

Could the staff perhaps give a PG-13 movie or two that represents the feel of what they were trying to accomplish with this event?

I know I'm not staff, but movies that are Rated PG-13 that have an excess of violence, or overly dark themes in them such as torture or things that would be frowned upon in general.

The Avengers - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0848228/

Captain America - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458339/

The Winter Soldier - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1843866/

The Incredible Hulk - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800080/

Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325980/

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0383574/

Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449088/

Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1298650/

All of the above movies are Rated PG-13, have violence, invasions, death, destruction, pillaging, treachery, torture, and some rather horrid scenes in them. The kicker? Every single one of the movies listed, are Disney movies. You know, the company that makes movies for about the same age group that MLP targets. So yes, aside from the higher levels of gore in the event, the event itself was very much a PG-13 event by any and all definitions of the rating.

[Bramble Rose]

Thank you for the examples of movies there. I'll accept that calling the violence 'R' is too much. My apologies for over-reacting there.

Corsair said:

I dislike the implication that I, and by extension the rest of the RP staff, are LYING when we say we are listening.

I believe you, and several others of the staff, are quite genuine in saying you are listening, and fully intending to, but I had some rather harsh things said to me when I brought up that this would be a problem *beforehand*, and while some staff are participating openly ... the ones who most pushed for this sort of thing to happen, and were most insulting to me, I haven't seen anything from. I'm reluctant to name names in public. But it's not a matter of 'I don't think you're telling the truth.' As I said in my first post - I have *history* on this exact subject, and I'm not sure what you can even do about it.

Bellosh said:

I don't know; I think for this one issue, we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I didn't find much difference between my depiction and your alternate depiction. As for the Emperor in Return of the Jedi, yes he did indeed wanted to torture Luke before finishing him off. Otherwise he'd have just a Force Choke and be done with it. But that's a debate for another thread.

I think it's exactly what this is about. It's not just about what mental visual you had - it's also about how you bring it forward. The wording you used in that particular paragraph carries connotations that brings it towards the electrocution scene in 'Taken' - much less towards how it was in Jedi. The words you use carry a lot of weight - so that even if it builds the same mental image, it can create a very different feel towards that mental image. If you focus on the visual, you can create the scene without bringing much of the baggage with it - focus more on the 'lightning' and less on the 'pain and torture', and it can be cartoony. One of those things the character on the receiving end is more likely to be able to shake off and come back to save the day. When you focus on the torture, the suffering, and the agony, that brings the reader into the fact that ... this isn't just some cartoony or superhero-y zap zap zap. It's actually vicious and violent, and you get more of the implication that... this violence is NOT the temporary cartoon violence that can be forgotten with a few bandages and a scene change.

It's precisely this feel that is what got people upset towards the event, and the violence it brought forward. It's not just that 'someone used something that zaps folks.' It's specifically that the focus was on the pain and suffering. The show itself has lightning strikes on ponies - Derpy smolders for a couple seconds, Dash uses lightning during the Nightmare Moon episode as a prank, etc. And it's not like ponies in the show haven't been subject to what would be considered 'cruel and unusual' treatment if done to humans in real life. Cadence herself was imprisoned in isolation for days in a crystal prison during the wedding episode. The difference is in how it's presented - and that can make a LOT of difference.

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That being said - I know my first post was quite long, but there was a question in there I was hoping would be answered even more. And I appreciate that Rarity answered what movies he was using (that sentence sounds really weird) as inspiration, but -

What sort of changes are we looking at making? Are we looking at how to change CC so that it's not leaning towards this sort of thing? Are we looking at how to change events so that they won't run into this sort of problem? Are we looking at just how to change how we present things so that it doesn't surprise anypony or catch them unawares? Exactly how far are the staff willing to change these issues?