Vanillapop Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Real friends don't always hate each other when they get together, but real friends do have issues when put into more or less mortal terror and uncertain situations? They briefly touched on it when they were having lunch, but immediately dropped it with a faint shrug. I didn't feel they illustrated ponies dealing with their differences while maintaining a friendship very well --- and given that was the point behind the episode, the message fell pretty flat for me. I don't buy the town as a whole being the main character just because of their shot choices. They were illustrating a tone, and trying to describe the town as barren, desolate, and empty. It's easiest to do that when showing how -empty- everything is around the characters, which is why a wide shot would be incredibly effective. The town was more or less the focus of the episode, but the town itself was not a character. There were characters within the town, and there was no general focus, leading to what felt kind of clumsy. It felt like they didn't know if they wanted to focus on the mane 6 as a whole, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, or the group of 3 dissenting equal ponies who sparked the rebellion in the first place. Having a main character doesn't mean they needed one single character in the lead --- but it felt like they were trying to tell multiple stories from multiple perspectives, while showing very, very little of it. The episode was ambitious, but I feel like it could have been better had they known what it was they wanted from it in the first place. I still think the episode has the greatest tone I've seen in an opener, as it was undeniablly creepy. The way the plot unfolded could have been stronger with a little more focus, however. In example, the bit with Fluttershy staying with the main villain after leaving the torture shack was a -great- opportunity I feel like they let slide, likewise when Pinkie Pie immediately pegged the smiles being fake. Those were just wide open opportunities they already built into the episode. But even moreso, I feel if they'd even brought more attention to the characters that ended up being the heroes it would have been a stronger episode. But that's just my opinion regarding it. I thought the episode was good and all, but I don't think lack of direction and focus works well with an ensemble cast, and I feel their execution could have been much tighter in the story and script department. Their art direction, as it typically is for television, was exceptional. I do like this opener better than Season 4's opener, but less than I enjoyed the earlier openings. c: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankT Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 I'm genuinely quite surprised that this show would tackle something so deep-rooted as fascism... at least, I think that's the right word, I dunno, I might have looked too deep into it, but that's the impression I got of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowWalking18 Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 I'm genuinely quite surprised that this show would tackle something so deep-rooted as fascism... at least, I think that's the right word, I dunno, I might have looked too deep into it, but that's the impression I got of it.Fascism. Totalitarianism. Marxism. Deep stuff there.I also compare Starlight Glimmer and the Markless akin to a Cult. It had all the signs of a cult then fascism. Also this had to be the most butt heavy episode ever. In fact, the Markless village made me think of Jonestown, and other towns and villages built by cults to escape the world and further isolate their members. Starlight was definitely suffering the symptoms of Cult Leader. Still, perhaps one of my favorite villians to date simply because she is by all means just an ordinary pony. No Nightmare powers. No magic draining, just some make up, a few props and good old fashioned charisma. Why is there a spell to remove cutie marks though? And why does not having them seem to affect a ponies energy reserves? Also, Pinkie giving a rational science explanation to laughter was hilarious. And her all chubby from muffins was cute, though how the heck does one accidentally eat cardboard?I hope Starlight comes back. I want to rp with her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippo Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 One of the things I have already heard speculated is how Starlight should come back and have a conflict with Trixie, a more redeemed than we've been used to Trixe, that is. At first I thought that would be silly, and just be another wishful thinking things many fans like to say in knee-jerk reactions, it wouldn't be the first time with Trixie. But after thinking about it, it would actually be perfect. Starlight got away (and much in the way that Trixie got away in Boast Busters, if you remember all the way back in season 1), and still maintains her threat to ponies. She has powerful magic, powerful enough to remove cutie marks. That's pretty scary if you're a pony knowing someone is out there with that ability. It would make a really badass campfire story. But Trixie, although not powerful, could come to a conflict with Starlight simply on the terms of her identity. Starlight has some weird philosophy that being equal is a good thing. You think Trixie would agree with that? Buck no. Even a reformed Trixie has enough ego in her to object to such a ridiculous suggestion. Trixie constantly measures herself with other ponies, even if subconsciously. It would be hard to imagine these ponies meeting in an episode without the mane characters, so it would have to be a triangle story. Maybe they team up but then have a falling out. I could see Trixie using some 'tricks up her sleeve' for good, maybe. Trixie in Rainbow Rocks also seemed a little too easy to manipulate. Maybe her pony counterpart is just as easy to convince, and Starlight makes Trixie do yet another thing she regrets. Good episode, not one of my favorite two parters, I would say 7.5/10 for both parts. Looking forward to this road trip around Equestria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheColtofPersonality Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Ugh finally back here again, I did intend to come back here yesterday when the episode aired but I have spent the whole rakkin frakkin week sick from a nasty flu.As for the episode I say its off to a better start then even last season for me, especially its big bad who might actually be this universes closest pony to A certain lovable benevolent great leader, but at the same time might actually be this series most complex villain.No seriously there is a lot of potential back story to Starlight Glimmer, she kind of reminded me of Amon from Legend of Korra with her Equalist (har!) mindset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainbowFoxxy Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Favorite moments:-pinkie rolling down the hill, so classic and made me smile for sure-double Diamond's voice. I don't know why exactly but it was soothing and I loved it!-the scene with ponies getting back their marks. I loved how it changed them and made them bright again. -dashie getting frustrated at having to fly so slowly-the possibility of road tripping around Equestria... New lore!What I didn't like:-I was once in a cult. I got out eventually.vnow anything like that makes my stomach drop. That little towns setting and leader made me feel a little sick.overall I loved this episode and I can't wait for more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianblackberry Posted April 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Just an FYI, you all don't need to use spoiler tags anymore, it has been over 24 hours since the premiere, so it is safe to say anyone in here discussing the episode has seen the episode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshineTheleocat Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Fascism. Totalitarianism. Marxism. Deep stuff there.I also compare Starlight Glimmer and the Markless akin to a Cult. It had all the signs of a cult then fascism. Also this had to be the most butt heavy episode ever.In fact, the Markless village made me think of Jonestown, and other towns and villages built by cults to escape the world and further isolate their members.Starlight was definitely suffering the symptoms of Cult Leader. Still, perhaps one of my favorite villians to date simply because she is by all means just an ordinary pony. No Nightmare powers. No magic draining, just some make up, a few props and good old fashioned charisma.Why is there a spell to remove cutie marks though? And why does not having them seem to affect a ponies energy reserves? Also, Pinkie giving a rational science explanation to laughter was hilarious. And her all chubby from muffins was cute, though how the heck does one accidentally eat cardboard?I hope Starlight comes back. I want to rp with her HIT IT SIR MIXALOT "I LIKE BIG BUTTS AND I CAN NOT LIE! ALL YOU OTHER BROTHAS CAN DENY!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Well, I must say that the writers have certainly given us a season premier to remember! It was edgy, spooky, frightening and believable that works on SO many levels! I think both kids and adults could get something from this two-parter! Well done by the writers, well drawn by the animators! I hope the quality of Season 5 stays on this level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesh Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Real friends don't always hate each other when they get together, but real friends do have issues when put into more or less mortal terror and uncertain situations? They briefly touched on it when they were having lunch, but immediately dropped it with a faint shrug. I didn't feel they illustrated ponies dealing with their differences while maintaining a friendship very well --- and given that was the point behind the episode, the message fell pretty flat for me. That is certainly testing, and it is tougher to remain successful, but these ponies have been friends for a LONG time now. I'd hope that they could handle a little uncertainty and still react in a mature fashion. This seems realistic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 They seem to be acting a little more mature, they did argue slightly but worked together anyways, and keep in mind the Smile Ponies were taught religiously that you can't have even a MINOR varying opinion without causing hate, so seeing them have a minor issue and resolve it just fine was sort of the "Light-bulb" Moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesh Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 They seem to be acting a little more mature, they did argue slightly but worked together anyways, and keep in mind the Smile Ponies were taught religiously that you can't have even a MINOR varying opinion without causing hate, so seeing them have a minor issue and resolve it just fine was sort of the "Light-bulb" Moment exactly. also, the scene does nothing for the plot if they end up angry at each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanillapop Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Again, it's just my opinion regarding the episode. Nothing more, nothing less. xD If you have a different opinion, that's totally fine. I felt like the scene wasn't strong enough to carry the moral, and that the episode's plot was unfocused and uncertain whose story it wanted to tell (the mane 6, the town, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, or the group of 3 ponies who were disillusioned with town life). That and I felt like some canon elements were ignored in favor of drama, such as Twilight so easily losing her cutie mark without much of a fight. Surrounded or not, she's one of the most powerful magic users in all of Equestria, you know? The episode was fun, and I'm looking forward to Season 5. c': But it just wasn't strong enough for me. Ultimately, I'm assuming the writers, storyboard artists, director, and producer, accomplished exactly what they wanted to accomplish with the episode. If they did, that's cool. It's tough to accomplish everything a creative ensemble wants considering the sheer amount of teamwork that goes into building an episode for TV from the ground up. Having worked in that environment, it isn't easy, disharmony is an every day thing, and sometimes the end product reflects multiple ideas getting squashed into one after a power struggle. I felt like the lack of focus could have easily been the result of different people wanting to accomplish different things, and having to compromise in order to achieve an end product by a deadline that's typically rather harsh. xD Again. Those are just my feelings regarding the end product they reached when constructing this episode. I'm not saying the characters needed to go to war with each other. I'm not saying they needed to focus on one single character. All I'm saying is that the episode could have been executed in a stronger, clearer fashion to better illustrate the message they were trying to achieve --- and that they could have maybe, -maybe-, accomplished it by using some of the details they already built into the script. That said. I hope no one percieves this as me trying to argue. o3o I'm just trying to explain my point of view here, and I think we'll have to agree to disagree regarding this episode. I'm glad to see a lot of people enjoyed the episode, and I just hope the future episodes are as good as they've been since the start of the show~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 I think Twilight didn't use her magic because YOU CAN'T USE GOD POWERS ON CIVILIANS. They were surrounded by ponies that could in NO way take any of their combat, or magic, they would have severely hurt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesh Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 I think Twilight didn't use her magic because YOU CAN'T USE GOD POWERS ON CIVILIANS. They were surrounded by ponies that could in NO way take any of their combat, or magic, they would have severely hurt them. that, and she was clearly panicing. If you have a different opinion, that's totally fine. I felt like the scene wasn't strong enough to carry the moral, and that the episode's plot was unfocused and uncertain whose story it wanted to tell (the mane 6, the town, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, or the group of 3 ponies who were disillusioned with town life). Firstly, I appreciate the discussion, and your polite disagreement : ) What do you think the theme was? If a moral, which?I'm not sure a moral was the point in this case. If it seems disjointed and unclear, perhaps it is because you are trying to shoehorn a minor lesson into an entire episode theme? I won't put words in your mouth though, you tell me. I'd guess that the purpose was introduction of the characters and of the season's map theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanillapop Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 ;3; There's no need for the all-caps... It's pretty clear that my opinion differs from most of the people in this thread, and I'm okay with that. As part of discussion, all I wanted to do was clarify, that, you know... The characters didn't need to be at war with each other to show a stronger sense of disagreement, there didn't need to be one main character, just more focus on a plot element to tie everything together, and that these were issues for me as a viewer --- given I kind of perceived one of weesh's comments as targeting my comment, in particular about when the mane 6 were having lunch... It's cool if we're all going to discuss this episode and differing opinions regarding it as long as everyone understands that these opinions are just that: opinions relative to the individual viewer. Given Twilight put up a shield at the end of the episode to protect herself and the town ponies from the villain's magic (her name eludes me, sorry), I think she could have conjured a way to use non-lethal force to counter her cutie mark being stolen, even for a little while. She's an alicorn, and her cutie mark came off like a wet sticker, with very little effort or struggle. That didn't feel consistent to me, and considering they had a good while as they were being surrounded by the towns ponies to react, I feel a reaction other than shock was warranted. They went into the cave expecting trouble, so I'm sure it wasn't that much of a shock when trouble found them there. If we're assuming that Twilight can only respond with god like lethal powers, then I guess the scene was just fine. I would have assumed she would have tried to break magical contact and counter, even if it was a defensive counter --- if anything to make it feel like it was a little harder to steal her cutie mark. ---- Weesh - Thank you. I do appreciate the discussion, and I do apologize if I ever appear combative. Text is a totally hard way to communicate sometimes, given there's no inflection and all of that. x-x Anyway, the moral was perfectly clear in the story. The stated it in the dialogue: ponies with different opinions and life experiences can be friends, and that's what makes friends so special. They even had a little speech about it at the end when Twilight talked about how she wouldn't have come so far were it not for her 5 friends being there with her. The moral isn't really what felt unfocused, as that was blatantly stated, multiple times, throughout the opener. What I meant by unfocused is that it felt like they were trying to tell multiple stories in a short period of time, and thus the events of the episode often felt rushed or disjointed. I guess the best example I can think of is that they never built a relationship with Double Diamond, Sugar Belle, Party Favor, or the pegasus who was a part of their group at the end of the episode for the audience. By having those specific characters shine at the end, it felt like the writers wanted us to relate to their struggle and triumph. Meanwhile, very, very little attention was ever paid to them. While they were in the shack, Twilight mentioned that "if they could show Party Favor that they could disagree and still be friends, perhaps they could change his mind". However, rather than focusing on that, they dropped it and didn't mention it again. Instead they had Fluttershy appear the next morning with the bucket of water --- which felt like a segway into a different part of the story they wanted to tell. They had a story going with Fluttershy infiltrating the town to rescue their cutie marks, and a reference to a story opportunity it sounded like they intended to take, or took in one of their script drafts, involving Party Favor and the remaining 5 trapped in the shack. Nevermind that the secret Cutie Mark fan club was only ever mentioned once as a way to say "hey, there really is a problem in this town that needs to be resolved!". They could have easily had Sugar Belle uncover the secret about the villain and throw the bucket, but they chose to have Fluttershy infiltrate the cottage, thus cutting the Cutie Mark fan club out of the story all together. They weren't anything more than a plot device to establish that there was a problem, despite being brought back for the finale to ultimately resolve the end of the episode. ;3; I hope that makes sense. When I'm talking about the episode not being focused, I don't mean the moral needs to be more obvious, only that it would have been nice, for me, if they had figured out whose story they were telling. If it was everyone, the mane 6, the town, Double Diamond, Sugar Belle, Party Favor, etc., they didn't leave themselves a lot of screen time for character development and establishment. If it was Double Diamond, Sugar Belle, Party Favor, etc., they didn't really have -any- time for character development or establishment beyond the one scene they were prominently featured, and if it was Fluttershy's heroics, her story arc was so incredibly brief. xD And yes. I actually agree. That moreso than annnny of that, these episodes were really to introduce the magic map and the role it'd be taking for the rest of the series. The rest of it is just a side-story to the main arc of the whole season, after all. I do like the idea of the map, and the discovery of new locations, though. I really liked when they took the train to the very end of its tracks, as it made Equestria seem that much bigger, considering the train has traveled to pretty much every location mentioned in the show thus far. With the exception of this town on the furthest outskirts of Equestria, and likely many more interesting places to come. The world building is going to be super fun this season~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheColtofPersonality Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Again, it's just my opinion regarding the episode. Nothing more, nothing less. xD If you have a different opinion, that's totally fine. I felt like the scene wasn't strong enough to carry the moral, and that the episode's plot was unfocused and uncertain whose story it wanted to tell (the mane 6, the town, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, or the group of 3 ponies who were disillusioned with town life). That and I felt like some canon elements were ignored in favor of drama, such as Twilight so easily losing her cutie mark without much of a fight. Surrounded or not, she's one of the most powerful magic users in all of Equestria, you know? The episode was fun, and I'm looking forward to Season 5. c': But it just wasn't strong enough for me. Ultimately, I'm assuming the writers, storyboard artists, director, and producer, accomplished exactly what they wanted to accomplish with the episode. If they did, that's cool. It's tough to accomplish everything a creative ensemble wants considering the sheer amount of teamwork that goes into building an episode for TV from the ground up. Having worked in that environment, it isn't easy, disharmony is an every day thing, and sometimes the end product reflects multiple ideas getting squashed into one after a power struggle. I felt like the lack of focus could have easily been the result of different people wanting to accomplish different things, and having to compromise in order to achieve an end product by a deadline that's typically rather harsh. xD Again. Those are just my feelings regarding the end product they reached when constructing this episode. I'm not saying the characters needed to go to war with each other. I'm not saying they needed to focus on one single character. All I'm saying is that the episode could have been executed in a stronger, clearer fashion to better illustrate the message they were trying to achieve --- and that they could have maybe, -maybe-, accomplished it by using some of the details they already built into the script. That said. I hope no one percieves this as me trying to argue. o3o I'm just trying to explain my point of view here, and I think we'll have to agree to disagree regarding this episode. I'm glad to see a lot of people enjoyed the episode, and I just hope the future episodes are as good as they've been since the start of the show~ For me this is a bit refreshing, after having big season openers in the past its a nice change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Two words: Harrison Bergeron. I've been saying it ever since I saw the premise of the episode, but I didn't realize just how strong the parallels really were. Perhaps Horse News' statement that MA Larson was a huge Kurt Vonnegut fan wasn't entirely horseapples after all. I really loved the episode because it actually stands up to a second watch. There are all sorts of little things that you might miss the first time that you pick up on after you understand what's really going on. The sacrifice that Double Diamond made, Fluttershy's attempt at deception, and the actual relationship strain that was threatened by Starlight Glimmer's ultimatum was a step up in terms of show maturity. I'm glad that they managed to bring it up like they did without crossing into grimmer territory. In addition, having Starlight Glimmer as a genre-savvy villain and Pinkie's blurting out ACTUALLY mean something made the characters feel more real; they understand what can happen when they fail, so they take steps to avoid it, but can still ruin themselves with slips of the tongue. In addition, it's awesome to see the result of the Mane Six's interpersonal interactions affect other ponies. Some people may balk at the fact that Twilight and Company weren't the ones to save the day, but I think it gives the show a real sense of depth now. Even without acting directly, the Mane Six's actions have consequences for good or for ill. Finally, Daniel Ingram is on point with his music, including the tweet that said his inspiration for the song was WWII propaganda songs. Overall, it was a great start to the season and I look forward to seeing more from the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippo Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Just an FYI, you all don't need to use spoiler tags anymore, it has been over 24 hours since the premiere, so it is safe to say anyone in here discussing the episode has seen the episode but I wanna... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Also, I love the reference to the classic Apple "1984" commercial with the way that the former Smile Ponies smashed the vault of cutie marks. I agree that I like the idea that while the mane six got things going by rebelling against Starlight Glimmer, ultimately the background characters helped assist Twilight and company. They didn't come in and magically save the day but they did help. This is significant because before these background ponies were there for sight gags and Where's Waldo searches without much substance besides that. They are seen normally as just following the herd (pun intended) rather than really helping against a foe. I like the idea of expanding beyond Equestria as it opens the door to new worlds and encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 I personally liked how the episode was dark, but in a sorta physiological way, like there are children there, what happens if they get a cutie mark? Are they encouraged to remain blank forever? Were they born there? Did they go through the "Process"?So many chilling questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacobob Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Great episode! I do like the fact that 'regular' ponies were actually allowed to do something heroic as opposed to being useless and only there to be saved by the heroes... And the faces....Loved the bit when they first enter the village and the one stallion is just STARING at Rarity...And she goes though these different stages of uncomfortableness... And I got a little Bioshocky vibe there..Was probably just me..But with the intercom room and Starlight saying 'Would You Kindly' more than a couple of times... And this And gal that cute can't be all evil. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowWalking18 Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 This episode was very flank/butt heavy.Rematch and count how many times the flank is either pointed out or the camera gives focus too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Interesting comparison to the Apple "1984" commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axSnW-ygU5g And a scene in Episode 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesh Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Also, I love the reference to the classic Apple "1984" commercial with the way that the former Smile Ponies smashed the vault of cutie marks. Holy crap, I totally missed that!Super classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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