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Derpy's Dilemma


Rosewind

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You wouldn't have lost Derpy as canon because she wouldn't have been canon. Her inclusion in any role whatsoever is a gift to the fans. Making noise over a decision to change a character on their show, when said character initially didn't even exist and who's inclusion is intended as a nod to the fanbase, can come off as the fanbase seeming spoiled.

You want Derpy to remain Derpy? I can understand that. Write a polite e-mail and say your piece. My message is that whether they keep her the same or change her, I'm excited that she is involved at all and am overjoyed that they recognize us enough to do so. I'm not going to demand they adhere to my vision of their character- it is their vision, their work, not mine. I'm happy to have Derpy at all.

Your missing the symbolism here. Derpy symbolizes the brony fandom because WE essentially created her. If they turn their back on her then they are turning their back on the fandom, if they change her, they are telling us they dont care what we think anymore that the beautiful symbiotic relationship is over.

Now, I personally think that symbolism is a little overboard, but from what I've read, that seems to be the overall view, and I do agree with it on a lesser level.

And wow... 14K signatures... just... wow... O_O

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Your missing the symbolism here. Derpy symbolizes the brony fandom because WE essentially created her. If they turn their back on her then they are turning their back on the fandom, if they change her, they are telling us they dont care what we think anymore that the beautiful symbiotic relationship is over.

Now, I personally think that symbolism is a little overboard, but from what I've read, that seems to be the overall view, and I do agree with it on a lesser level.

And wow... 14K signatures... just... wow... O_O

Yeah, that symbolism is wildly overboard. I would reply more to it, but adherence to that belief is entirely personal and lacks factual, substantive basis and is therefore just a personal belief. Can't argue against personal belief, ya know?

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If hasbro was convinced this could start a crapstorm, they wouldn't have reinstated it no matter how many signatures it got. A company wont choose to offend an organized minority.

If it really is just a very few people objecting, then they'd go ahead. But organised groups can really stir things up.

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If hasbro was convinced this could start a crapstorm, they wouldn't have reinstated it no matter how many signatures it got. A company wont choose to offend an organized minority.

If it really is just a very few people objecting, then they'd go ahead. But organised groups can really stir things up.

The same thing can be said about us then. We organized 14K people to sign a petition, many of them giving valid reasons. Basically the same thing.

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If the community sat on its hands like you are suggesting here then we’d never have had a Derpy in the first place.
The video makes a few good points (the company probably does like us -- a lot), though I don't really agree that the community should be passive about issues like this.

I didn't get a "passive" vibe from this video at all. :/ The message that I got from that part of the video was that we should be calm about things (calm ≠ passive), and wait for official information. Whatever the heck is going on will soon be posted by EqD, and if we don't know anything for certain, we shouldn't jump to conclusions. Discussing the whole issue, rumors, official stuff, opinions... that's totally fine. But don't write an angry letter to Hasbro if you're just assuming things. Writing a nice, calm letter will probably go a lot farther than some angry jumble of spitting out whatever comes to mind. Hasbro probably actually DOES want to know what we think and how we feel, because we do make up a lot of the fanbase. Heck, the fandom MAY be what got the Derpy stuff pulled ("MAY", and yes it probably was the minority)... so Hasbro IS listening, and they ARE paying attention. ALL of Hasbro (well, except maybe the toy department). The animators, voice actors, creators... even Faust herself! They throw in subtle references, even make some changes... because we voice our opinions and likes.

So, in conclusion, what I got was that it's not about being passive, it's about knowing what you're talking about before you take action. And when you do take action, do it civilly. You can be bold without being angry, and share your opinions without raising your voice. It's those that are the quietest, that take the time to actually think, that probably have the most impact in the end. When you take the time to care about what you're going to say, others will see that, and be more likely to hear you out.

Don't be so quick to jump down Hasbro's throat when something bad happens. Just take a step back, view the whole situation, and see where things are headed. This Derpy thing is still developing, and so far I haven't seen a statement from Hasbro as to WHY they made WeLoveFine pull Derpy stuff, and then allowed them to put it back up. I don't know if Hasbro had anything to to with Tabitha's blog. I don't know, you don't know. But as was mentioned in the video: "Does this change the show?" Well... no, not that I can see. Not so far anyway. So relax. Discuss. Send a letter to Hasbro asking what's up. Sign the petition too, if you feel inclined. But just chillax until we get something solid, or this whole thing just blows over.

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Your missing the symbolism here. Derpy symbolizes the brony fandom because WE essentially created her. If they turn their back on her then they are turning their back on the fandom, if they change her, they are telling us they dont care what we think anymore that the beautiful symbiotic relationship is over.

But... what if a minority of offended Bronies got together and sent angry letters to Hasbro about Derpy? They're still fans, right? So... hypothitically, let's say it was a minority of fans... The majority needs to step up (and they have) to let Hasbro know how they feel. If they don't, the minority of FANS will get their way. But they are still fans, they just have a different opinion.

Say it's switched, and the majority didn't like Derpy. Would pulling her be turning on the fandom then?

It's possible that changing/pulling Derpy is something that the fandom DOES want... not the entire fandom, but a group of them. As I said, they are still fans, so Hasbro would just be "turning" on the larger part of the fandom... but not the entire fandom. IF there were some Bronies who were offended, and Habro pulled Derpy because of them... it shows that they ARE listening. But, if a larger group turns around and protests, Hasbro IS going to see that, and realize that maybe they made a mistake.

Obviously, as shown multiple times throughout the show, Hasbro DOES care... we just have to speak up. And if a minority group speaks up first, maybe Hasbro will jump the gun and do something that they'll turn around and undo once the word gets out and the majority acts.

There's nothing that says Hasbro wasn't/isn't listening and paying attention... but maybe they were just listening to the wrong group.

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Assuming the worst, I still don't see the issue. Derpy started off as a freakin' animation error. Any characterization we get at all officially is already better than what we would have had initially.

I understand being upset with a possible decision to change her character, but really, some people are taking this waaaaaaay too hard. It is a background pony whose sole purpose is a nod to the fanbase, meant as nothing more than that. Some act as if a change in her character somehow is a fatal blow to the series. Check yourself: It's freakin' Derpy, not Rainbow Dash or Twilight Sparkle.

Weesh, the page you want is here.

I think the main point is that this is not really an attack against Hasbro for the Derpy thing, it's that the people who complained that Derpy's voice/behavior was making fun of the mentally disabled, and they were reinforcing a bad stereotype while they thought what they were doing was justified -- and Hasbro may have reacted. This sets up a paradigm that if a vocal minority complains loud enough, it can change future things about the series that I thought were pretty awesome (like Derpy's bigger role).

Tales, I completely agree that calm, cool, and collected is the way to go. I did sign the petition, but I haven't felt the need to email Hasbro about this situation...yet When I commented about not being passive, I meant that even though we have limited information about what is happening, we should still explore the possibilities and support our own thoughts about this situation, and it should be done intelligently and with class. But you are right -- until something official is said, we really have nothing to go on.

Derpy is back on WLF and The Last Roundup is up, unedited, on the official site, so I think this situation will blow over very soon.

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All speculation and skepticism aside, it is pretty clear that Derpy Hooves' speech highly resembles that of a typical Down Syndrome lisp. It was a very poor choice on Hasbro's part, and now the entire fandom may have to pay the price for it, regardless of whether or not the anger and concern is warranted to begin with.

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All speculation and skepticism aside, it is pretty clear that Derpy Hooves' speech highly resembles that of a typical Down Syndrome lisp. It was a very poor choice on Hasbro's part, and now the entire fandom may have to pay the price for it, regardless of whether or not the anger and concern is warranted to begin with.

I'm going to use this as an example, so don't take this as a swing at you, Wily:

This is more or less what I'm talking about. What is a typical down syndrome lisp? I've worked with dozens of people with Downs' and they didn't sound anything close to Derpy. This is just a generalization that draws the negative stereotypes toward developmentally disabled people -- and it is a conditioned perception (usually from outside media influence) based on what some people assume about something without knowing for absolute certain. Someone with experience with the developmentally disabled would have this advantage, though I think the vast majority do not.

Again, no offense Wily, I understand the context of what you're saying, and my comments above are aimed more toward the point I'm trying to make than at what you said, personally.

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Weesh, the page you want is here.

I think the main point is that this is not really an attack against Hasbro for the Derpy thing, it's that the people who complained that Derpy's voice/behavior was making fun of the mentally disabled, and they were reinforcing a bad stereotype while they thought what they were doing was justified -- and Hasbro may have reacted. This sets up a paradigm that if a vocal minority complains loud enough, it can change future things about the series that I thought were pretty awesome (like Derpy's bigger role).

Tales, I completely agree that calm, cool, and collected is the way to go. I did sign the petition, but I haven't felt the need to email Hasbro about this situation...yet When I commented about not being passive, I meant that even though we have limited information about what is happening, we should still explore the possibilities and support our own thoughts about this situation, and it should be done intelligently and with class. But you are right -- until something official is said, we really have nothing to go on.

Derpy is back on WLF and The Last Roundup is up, unedited, on the official site, so I think this situation will blow over very soon.

This I understand and even agree with. I am just not a fan of those who look at it in a DOOMSDAY ZOMG SOUND THE ALARM MAN THE BATTLE STATIONS way, like Derpy Hooves is SOPA or ACTA.

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All speculation and skepticism aside, it is pretty clear that Derpy Hooves' speech highly resembles that of a typical Down Syndrome lisp. It was a very poor choice on Hasbro's part, and now the entire fandom may have to pay the price for it, regardless of whether or not the anger and concern is warranted to begin with.

You also have to remember that the Tabitha thought Derpy was a BOY... therefore she gave her a voice meant for a male, not a female.

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VERY Good Update:

Derpy's name has been added back to WeLoveFine products!

Not sure what this entirely means, but it's the best sign we've seen!

Personally, with this happening, I have to believe that this MAY MAY MAY have regards to copyrighting the name. Don't quote me or anything, but I have a feeling that's what this "dilemma" actually is.

So hopefully, this has all been a big misunderstanding. :smirk:

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This was posted on the FB Brony group a little bit ago. Not sure what to think:

RUMOR CONTROL The "Derpy" issue - it IS a copyright claim. The term "Derp" is not copyright by Matt Parker and Trey Stone as you might expect, it is copyright (May, 2011) by a clothing company in New Jersey. So Hasbro does not own and cannot use the name "Derpy". (SOURCE: United States Copyright Office)

I'm not terribly familiar with US copyright law, so I can't really give any input on the above.

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This was posted on the FB Brony group a little bit ago. Not sure what to think:

I'm not terribly familiar with US copyright law, so I can't really give any input on the above.

The question isn't necessarily "derp" because it's a longer name "Derpy Hooves" they should still be able to copyright the name if the only issue is the word "Derp" I mean the word "Apple" is heavily © and by Apple Computers, but there are many © and (T) phrases that use the word "apple" (and even more close to the series "Applejack" is © and so is the cereal "Applejacks" which is different by a single letter.) IF there is a © issue it's with the name being made by a fan of the show who they technically need to find before they can get permission to file for a © (Keep in mind, I'm NOT an attorney so this is just speculation based on a lot of reading and a few internet-related IP Law course bits I had in college)

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Moral of the story: Don't ever be offended by something unless you're in the majority. People will call you a hater for having the audacity to stand up for yourself.

Honestly, the lack of understanding in this community has never disappointed me more than it has around this issue specifically.

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It's not a lack of understanding, it's frustration with people who have a lack of perspective.

This is a common with advocacy groups, they don't pick their battles appropriately. It's what's made PETA a joke, trying to convince people that we should make ice cream out of human breast milk rather than cow milk, while betting on animal fights is still common in the US. There are many things in the world to get outraged about. Fathers and mothers killing their children for failing to obey strict religious principles, I'll get outraged about that. Companies giving millions of unregulated dollars to fund ultra-negative campaign ads, I'll get pissed off. A cartoon character being given a name that could, if you squint really hard, be construed to be possibly an insensitive term for the mentally challenged? I don't think so.

There are people out there who purposely pick fights about insanely trivial issues to play the "look at me, look at me!" card. I have less than zero patience, and close to zero tolerance for such people. If you want to get outraged about issues regarding the mentally challenged (or whatever the PC term of the year is), I can point you at hundreds, including the way that group homes are being defunded, placing these people on the streets homeless. But fighting that takes real work and commitment. Picking on innocent children's TV shows just takes a letter.

My humble opinion,

Coder

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TBH, the developmentally disabled get too much money from the gov't already. It's a third rail in many states. Meanwhile, other areas in health and human services are constaly starved for cash. It's silly. But that's aside from the point.

"Derpy" isn't what seemed to offend most people. While there has always been some controversy over they grey pony's name, it was rare for anypony to say it made fun of the developmentally disabled. It was the voice. The voice is what set people off, and yeah, I hear people saying "oh, well it doesn't offend me and I have friends who are developmentally disabled, which is about as convincing as the old "I have a black friend" defense. The only people who really have a right to say whether this is offensive to them are them, and the people that speak for them when they can't. AFAIK, none of us qualify. And we don't have ANY information about who petitioned Hasbro over anything. None.

"Picking your battles" is important. But realize that this is a defense brought out all the time against injustices much less controversial than this. People say that Native Americans shouldn't object to racist sports teams because it's a dumb battle to pick. hey, Cleveland fans like Chief Wahoo, right? Why would this petty minority group take away something that they love so much? Perhaps so with Derpy as well. I'm not sure where I personally stand on the whole Derpy thing, but I think in the end, it's more important to combat discrimination than it is to have a dang chuckle.

Really, the whole thing reeks of the privileged asserting their right to make fun of people that aren't them. There is no battle that underprivileged people CAN pick that wont be accused of being the "wrong battle" to pick, because it's never fun to have your privilege pointed out.

That said, if Derpy were to go away, yeah, I would feel a loss like anyone else, but I feel like it's more mature to take something like this, step back, and actually question your own beliefs than to just point fingers and accuse minorities of not acting in their own best interests.

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I agree with a lot of the ponies before me. It's really just a huge over-reaction to something not worth making a fuss over. Derpy was a cute fan-shoutout. It seems like now people will get offended by anything. Almost as if they're trying. In the world of sqeaky-clean political correctness that we live in, it was sort of expected. Honestly though, I'm a bit embarrassed how mad some ponies got. I think it's mature to laugh off something even if you do find it offensive. I love this fandom, but I'm a bit embarrassed as to how Hasbro probably thinks of the community now. We're not fragile piece of glass, we're people!

(Sorry if I got a bit rant-y there. It just bothers me a lot. :? )

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hi hi

Is it right to fight a battle on behalf of someone when you don't even know if they want the battle to be fought? If not being a minority precludes any of us from arguing one side of the issue, it should then preclude us from arguing any side of the issue.

I may not know a whole lot about anything, but I'm pretty sure that double standards are wrong, and its not a discussion if one side can't defend their position. I think that if there is something about being a minority that gives them an understanding that nobody else can share, then they are the only ones that should be having this discussion. However, if this is about part of the majority being offended on the minority's behalf about the possibility that other members of the majority will stereotype them, then I think its what people have already been discussing.

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hi hi

Is it right to fight a battle on behalf of someone when you don't even know if they want the battle to be fought? If not being a minority precludes any of us from arguing one side of the issue, it should then preclude us from arguing any side of the issue.

I may not know a whole lot about anything, but I'm pretty sure that double standards are wrong, and its not a discussion if one side can't defend their position. I think that if there is something about being a minority that gives them an understanding that nobody else can share, then they are the only ones that should be having this discussion. However, if this is about part of the majority being offended on the minority's behalf about the possibility that other members of the majority will stereotype them, then I think its what people have already been discussing.

I'm not really offended on a minority's behalf. I'm just saying if they are, we should be able to respect that. I stress again that we have so few facts at hand that for anypony to get sanctimonious or defensive over the matter is at least a bit hasty.

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I'm not really offended on a minority's behalf. I'm just saying if they are, we should be able to respect that. I stress again that we have so few facts at hand that for anypony to get sanctimonious or defensive over the matter is at least a bit hasty.

I agree with this statement. I signed that petition, but that was before I took a step back and surveyed the situation. We know nothing at this point. Everything is speculation. Until we know something a bit more concrete, I don't think we should do anything hasty.

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