Magic the Gathering Libraries(decks) discussion

[weesh]

The black deck, almost everything, except for Sorin, Sorin's Vengence, Akroma, and Anawon cost 3 or less

Your land expectancy by turn five on the play is only 3.67 so if it is working at peak efficiency, it is only because you are beating the odds. Or are you ok with missing land drops after turn three? Also, is this for dueling or for multiplayer?

Name: Operation Lab Maniac

colours: Blue/Green (Simic)

Casual deck

I love +1/+1 counters with proliferate.

Looks like a blast.

Laboratory Maniac is fun card as well, so it is cool to see a silly plan 'B'.

For the theme and format, the deck doesn't need any massive changes, but I have a few efficiency suggestions:

Include more cheap creatures that use counters. Like Spike Drone, More initiates or arcbound workers. getting three of these out and then using the gambit on turn three can get you off to a great start. There are a few cards that might be better than the core prowler, like thrumbing bird and contagion clasp. The clasp doubles as cheap early game removal, and I don't see any other removal in the deck at all! Consider a desert twister to increase the number of answers for which the deck has answers. What with all the card drawing, the joiners and the voices, having a big mana outlet might not be a bad idea. There are many excellent hydra like primordial or protean or ferral that could soak up some mana, and still make use of proliferate. Also, if you've got a braingeyser type of card, your deck and the maniac could both be happy.

I am always tempted to put Kavu Predators in these decks because they can get out of hand if your opponent's like lifegain. Fungal Behemoth can get huge in these decks too. If your playgroup has a "live and let live" philosophy, and especially if there is usually someone defenseless to attack, fangren firstborn can be crazy.

Triumph of the hordes could get you over the top as well as a tertiary victory condition, and you already have proliferate so you can push through the last couple of counters afterwards. From the new set, there is also a neat evolve creature that loses counters to steal stuff, and that might help out as well.

[RegalSteel]

For the theme and format, the deck doesn't need any massive changes, but I have a few efficiency suggestions:

Include more cheap creatures that use counters. Like Spike Drone, More initiates or arcbound workers. getting three of these out and then using the gambit on turn three can get you off to a great start. There are a few cards that might be better than the core prowler, like thrumbing bird and contagion clasp. What with all the card drawing, the joiners and the voices, having a big mana outlet might not be a bad idea. There are many excellent hydra like primordial or protean or ferral that could soak up some mana, and still make use of proliferate. Kavu Predators

My predators are in a gruul deck for thematic reasons. The deck is VERY mana efficient. I want to put some Mystic Snakes in at some point as well as some evolve & oozes. I need more clasps.

Won thrice by maniac. Upon which I loudly declare, "I CAN SEE FOREVER!"

[weesh]

Oh! and I forgot one of my favorite proliferate targets: Serrated arrows! Each time you proliferate, you replace a counter, and hurt the stuff you have already put a counter on. And the thing is actually pretty good, even if you never get to proliferate.

[RegalSteel]

Oh! and I forgot one of my favorite proliferate targets: Serrated arrows! Each time you proliferate, you replace a counter, and hurt the stuff you have already put a counter on. And the thing is actually pretty good, even if you never get to proliferate.

Sometimes the classics are the best.

[weesh]

Most old cards are either way above or below the current power level. The arrows are both fair and fun...maybe one of the only cards in Homelands to be such.

[Ciraxis]

I too love +1/+1 decks, so some propositions from me.

While Arrows are fun, personally I prefer Lux Cannon. The problem of old Simic creatures is the fact that they very expansive mana wise - new additions from Gatecrash would make some decent upgrades. For example:

Instead of Viridian Joiner - Gyre Sage - mostly the same, but Sage is 1 CMC cheaper.

Also Master Biomancer could be a substitute for Cytoplast Root-Kin.

Instead of Core Prowler I would use Viral Drake. It's proliferate is repeatable and don't require losing creature.

Crowned Ceratok in place of Shambler.

Instead of Thrive - Increasing Savagery or Incremental Growth

Since Biomantic Mastery is the Sorcery, while not Prime Speaker Zegana? She is cheaper, does not give cards to a opponent and she too scales up.

Also I would ponder over adding Fathom Mage which could allow for insane amout of draw, and Ivy Lane Denizen for even more counters.

You can also go more into direction of the elves and add Joraga Warcaller to spice things up. With Momir, Master Biomancer it can be dangerous (and very fun!).

Other fun toys:

Coalition Relic - while it resets each turn, with so many proliferate engines it matters little.

Archmage Ascension - while simply draw when you can search what you need? Also is an enchantment (which is an upside since they hard to get rid off).

Mind Unbound - it starts slow, but quickly will snowball out of control. Again, an enchantment.

Myojin of Seeing Winds - can be alternative for Jin. The weakness of your deck Steel is have dependency on creatures an Myojin can avert that thanks to it's indestructibility.

Myojin of Life's Web - with so many creature cards, the use of this fellow is obvious.

Otherworld Atlas - Like Mind Unbound, snowball effect. Cheaper but be wary as it gives opponents cards as well.

River Kelpie - with both proliferate and graft in one deck it's practically unkillable, and it makes opponent think twice before using mass removal.

Walking Archive - again an snowball effect but even cheaper then Atlas.

Momentous Fall - with proliferate the gain of both cards and life can be massive. Also, works with Core Prowler.

Omen Machine and Praetor's Counsel - sometimes something can go wrong, and both of this cards can help against that . Omen Machine doesn't allow us to lose when our library is empty and Counsel gives us massive card advantage and infinite hand.

Aerie Ouphes - this one combines with Master Biomancer for infinite combo if the latter have even one +1/+1 counter.

Afiya Grove - basically Graft on the enchantment.

Chlorophant - it can grow stupidly fast.

Clockspinning - it's just the one counter on one permanent, but that card have a buyback.

Crowned Ceratok - unlike creatures with Graft ability of this one works at all times.

Devoted Druid - more shenningans with potential to go infinite in right conditions.

Energy Vortex - in case you in need of direct damage.

Fertilid - all the ramping you ever need.

Forgotten Ancient - an Graft creature in all but name! And unlike other Graft creatures it can live without counters.

Gilder Bairn - this is the creature that inspired the proliferate itself. It will go infinite with the combination of Training Grounds and Paradise Mantle.

Glen Elendra Archmage - with the best counterspell engine you can get.

Grimoire of the Dead - obvious isn't it?

Grindclock - same us above.

Magistrate's Scepter - ohohoh yes!

Mana Bloom - even more mana.

Mercadian Lift - an Aether Vial that wouldn't make you friends hate you.

Oran-Rief, the Vastwood - alternative for Llonwar Reborn. can be better in late game.

Parallax Tide - with proliferate it's just cruel.

Predator Ooze - it grows. And. Does. Not. Die.

Psychic Vortex - it can be risky, but this too have a snowball effect that keeps going on it's own.

That's all I can think off for the while.

[IceStorm]

Your land expectancy by turn five on the play is only 3.67 so if it is working at peak efficiency, it is only because you are beating the odds. Or are you ok with missing land drops after turn three? Also, is this for dueling or for multiplayer?

Actually, I've played this deck multiple times tonight and I have never had an issue with mana drought, and I got mana flooded twice, Getting mana is not a problem for the deck, and even if I do miss land drops after turn 3, it doesn't really matter because if I actually need to get something on the field that has a higher cost, that's what the Dark Rit's are for. And this deck is suited for either/or. It's primary for duel, but can hold it's own in multiplayer.

[Ciraxis]

Ahhh yes, I have some words for yours deck too Ice. Or you mono B deck to be precise.

Since you have so many tutors, why not swapping Liliana Vess for Liliana of the Dark Realms? Weesh was worried for ensuring the land drop each turn and she would provide just that. She also have build in point removal and pump (which can be crucial for damage race if we take Nighthawk in account). She's also cheaper.

Dark Impostor is indeed fun but I myself would use Captivating Vampire. The latter is the lord and instead of removing creatures you can steal them!

The deck biggest weakness is possibility of having an empty hand. Luckily Phyrexian Arena can help against that. With Dark Ritual you can drop it on turn one and gain massive advantage.

While Weesh was worried about to numerous point removal I myself suggest something more...subtle. Like Grave Pact.

Other fun draw engine is Gravestorm. Unlike Arena this is not main deck material, but can be lethal when playing against reanimators, Golgari and flashback decks.

If you have too much problem with removal, put in Haunted Crossroads, Volrath's Stronghold or Oversold Cemetery.

They also work well in combination of best black removal, D a m nation (although D a m nation is very, very expensive card).

Against token swarms and white weenie? Hissing Miasma or No Mercy.

Weesh pointed out that Elixir is not a good card. I have to partially agree with him (Elixir is good in artifact decks). If you worried about being milled, use Kozilek.

If you going to use Liliana of the Dark Realms, be even meaner and combine her with Nether Void. Unlike your opponent, you can afford paying the additional cost in late game.

Speaking of the cost, you can never have enough mana. And since the first deck is Mono B, the Cabal Coffers is an obvious choice.

While not quite a discard, a Parallax Nexus can slow you opponent brutally.

Also since this is Vampire tribal, why not Door of Destinies?

To punish big draws (or any draw for that matter), Underworld Dreams.

There is also one aura that can be a substitute for removal. Vampiric Link. Cheap, always works - regardless of the controller - and can stack with Lifelink. It defuses any straightforward, dumb beater (although they can still block and kill your creatures).

Also, if you know your friends decks very well, use Surgical Extraction or Extirpate. Both are very cruel cards. The first one have alternative cost, while the second is uncounterable. However both require target in the graveyard.

Keep in mind that most of this enchantments are CMC 3, so you can cast them right of the bat with the Dark Ritual.

[RegalSteel]

Instead of Viridian Joiner - Gyre Sage - mostly the same, but Sage is 1 CMC cheaper.

Also Master Biomancer could be a substitute for Cytoplast Root-Kin.

Instead of Core Prowler I would use Viral Drake. It's proliferate is repeatable and don't require losing creature.

Crowned Ceratok in place of Shambler.

Instead of Thrive - Increasing Savagery or Incremental Growth

Since Biomantic Mastery is the Sorcery, while not Prime Speaker Zegana? She is cheaper, does not give cards to a opponent and she too scales up.

Also I would ponder over adding Fathom Mage which could allow for insane amout of draw, and Ivy Lane Denizen for even more counters.

Lot of good suggestions. I need to get ahold of some new Simic stuff for sure. I wish I had a walking archive for this deck too. Have to look into other cards too.

[weesh]

Name: Form of the Dragon Theme

colour: W/R

Format: Casual Multi-player

(1)4xNomad's en-Kor, 4xSeal of Fire

(2)4xBoros Signet, 1xLightning Greaves, 2xWall of Omens, 1xInside Out

(3)2xWisp Mare, 1xWhispersilk Cloak, 1xAura of Silence

(4)3xFumiko the Lowblood, 4xAngelic Protector

(5)1xKazuul Tyrant of the Cliffs

(6)2xSpirit of the Hearth, 2xPurity, 1xJokulhaups

(7)3xForm of the Dragon

(L)10xPlains, 10xMountain, 2xBoros Garrison, 2xClifftop Retreat

Idea: Delay the game until a form of the dragon can be dropped safely, and take control of the game.

Backup: Make it difficult/unprofitable to attack me, but force them to attack the other players with Fumiko.

Backup: Bash face with an unblockable Kazuul or Spirit of the Hearth.

Backup: Land an infinite damage strike with Nomads en-Kor, Angelic Protector and Inside Out combo.

Problems:

It is unprofitable to attack me, but not not necessarily dangerous.

I have important enchantments, and Aura of silence, so the Wispmares might get stuck in my hand.

Primarily, I need two cards that cost 3 or less to replace wispmare. Ideally, they should have both offensive and defensive capability, but lean towards defense.

If it looks wonky and unreliable, that may be the case since I haven't played it yet. General observations are also desired. Thanks!

[Ciraxis]

Primarily, I need two cards that cost 3 or less to replace wispmare. Ideally, they should have both offensive and defensive capability, but lean towards defense.

Probably the best replacement would be War Priest of Thune. Solid 2/2 and unlike mare there is may in his text. Also I have mixed feeling with Spirit of the Heart. How often did you damage/finish someone with him (this is a genuine question)? If it's just hexproof you interested with, there are cheeper cards to grant it.

If you are worried about being attacked weesh, maybe throw in Ghostly Prison, Windborn Muse or Lightmine Field? The last one is really funny with Gideon who is the good damage sink himself. Not to mention that he is a creature removal, and can survive Jokulhaups to smash opponents without mercy after it.

Also since the theme of your deck is "Forcing-Opponents-To-Attack-Each-Other" the things can be spiced with Fight to the Death. Fight can also be combined with Palace Guard (who is decent defender in his own right), Reconnaissance which eliminates any risk and best of all - Master Warcraft (really hilarious in multiplayer) that can be used on it's own too.You biggest weakness is being open to direct damage. Since some wacky Cho-Manno combo is out of question (it spreads your focus too much) I propose Balefire Liege. He's a lord, adds damage, and extends your lifespan. Also he isn't so easy to remove thanks to that 4 in his back. Also horror have elastic mana cost.

Other cards that can be useful:

Rhys the Redeemed - dies to everything, but makes fantastic tag-team with Kazuul

Darien, King of Kjeldor - in the rare, rare instance that someone make it past your deferences, good king will make sure that it will not happen the next time. He is basically an inferior Kazuul but since he is different creature, you can have them both on the field.

Convalescent Care - Form of the Dragon, meet Care. Care, Form of the Dragon.

Jareth, Leonine Titan - one of my favorite creatures off all time! He blocks like a champ and just won't die. Thanks to his cheap protection he shrugs off any point removal. Even creatures with deathtouch can't deal with him. Can go monstrous with Valor Made Real.

Hold the Line - another of my favorites. Probably the ultimate combat defense, not to mention the flavour text is insanely cool.

Boros Charm - the most expensive of charm cycle and for the good reason. Second option gives protection for your merry band that you desperately need.

Ajani Vengant - the Planeswalker are not so good in Multiplayer, but Mr. Tapcat have chance to shine in such defensive deck like yours. Locking the most dangerous tap pernament is always good and if left unchecked he can win damage race in your favour.

Gisela, Blade of Goldnight - two big reasons to play this lady. 1) She encourages your opponents to attack each other 2) She boost your own deferences considerably.That and the fact she is flier with first strike that you need after casting Form of the Dragon seals the deal. Her only Con is high mana cost.

Gravity Sphere or Chaosphere - it's obvious, isn't it?

Anything White with Fateful Hour

That's all I can give from my head. Hope it helps.

[weesh]

Wow, there are some great suggestions there, many within my budget...

• The palace guard combo is delicious and cheap, and does not require the form to be out. I might throw in a couple of mother of Runes for that one as well.
  
• Master Warcraft is awesome, but also defacto banned in one of my two my playgroups. I cast it once, and you should have heard the whining!
  
• Gideon is doown to $5?! Sweet!
  
• Thraben Doomsayer is almost certainly making the cut!
  

Regarding Spirit of the Hearth: I keep almost cutting him from decks because he seems inefficient. But almost every time I cast him my opponents curse and mutter until he is dead. It has won me many games that few other cards would have. You might think, and I do too, that these were flukes? Possibly, but they keep happening, and so the experiment goes on. Perhaps giving yourself hexproof is extra valuable in multiplayer because it stops so much more, AND focuses the player hate in other directions? I don't know. I absolutely undervalue the ability because I don't really understand the full implications.

What is the deal with Jareth? I have one, and I hear people rave about him, and talk about the games he's won, but he doesn't look appealing. Is he really THAT good? I should try him out.

[IceStorm]

New Standard deck that I have built. It's worked really well against most decks that I've played it against, and it flows nicely, however I haven't had the luxury of actually be able to compete in standard with it yet due to schedule conflictions at work. The main mechanic of this deck is bloodrush, which is quickly turning into one of my favorite mechanics.

Standard: 60-cards: R/G:

Creatures: 26

|4x| Burning-tree Emissary

|4x| Markov Blademaster

|4x| Ghor-Clan Rampager

|4x| Zhur-taa Swine

|2x| Skarg Guildmage

|4x| Ivy-lane Denizen

|2x| Foundry Street Denizen

|2x| Disciple of old Ways

Enchantments: 4

|4x| Verdant Haven

Instants/Sorceries: 10

|4x| Ground Assault

|4x| Wildwood Rebirth

|2x| Signal the Clans

Land:

|4x| Rootbound Craig

|8x| Mountain

|8x| Forest

Looking for a playset of Stomping Grounds, however don't currently have the money to shuck out 18$ a card. I'm also considering splashing a few Boros Charms in here as well, as with the Verdant Havens, I have any mana I need.

Also, The mana distibution in this deck is fine, as I know that's going to be the primary comment. Not all decks require 40% Mana to be efficient. In fact there are some decks where that is a hindrance rather than a benefit. On of the decks I posted previously had an average mana cost of about 2.8, with nothing costing over 3. Buy turn four at max, I can play anything in that deck, and top-decking mana at that point becomes, again, a hindrance rather than a benefit.

[weesh]

I am afraid I am a bit out of the loop as far as the standard metagame at the moment. However, for an aggressive midrange deck, I would love to see more one-drops, or some acceleration. It takes about 8 to reliably get one.

Some suggestions: arbor elf, stromkirk noble, vexing devil, wasteland viper or rakdos cackler.

Other than that, I haven't had much experience with bloodrush, so it is hard to make a judgement on its power level.

What are your default targets for Signal the Clans?

[IceStorm]

My defaults are depending on what I have in my hand, are either Ghor, Swine, Blade master, or burning-tree.

Ghor's Bloodrush gives the attacking creature +4/+4 and trample until end of turn for GR, and Swine is 1GR for +5/+4. And it's treated as an ability cost which means it can't be countered. Blademaster is there for the 3 drop double strike, and Burning tree pays for itself by producing RG mana when it enters the battlefield. so even when summoned, it leaves room to play more, or bloodrush.

As for the creatures you mentioned, I thought about them, and used to run two WLV's in the deck. I took them out because the only time I would logically use it's bloodrush ability, is when I wouldn't be allowed to use it. So I found it rather pointless when next turn, I could have up to five creatures on the field without any issues given the right draw, and usually have three. One of my favorite things to do with this deck, is to stall until turn four (depending on what my opponent is doing) to drop Ivy-Lane, then next turn swarm burning tree the turn after to make Ivy-lane a 6/7 or higher. I usually only do this if my opponent's deck hasn't started to click by that point. Otherwise, I swarm turn two or three.

Also, Ghor-Clan, and Blademaster are OP together. +4/+4 and trample to a creature that gets bigger and has double-strike. I've OTK'd people several times by BRing Swine and Ghor onto Blademaster.

[weesh]

I do like the doublestrike/bloodrush combo.

But note that there is no synergy between the emissary and bloodrush.

The first must be played in a mainphase, and the mana will be gone by combat.

As for the viper, I suggested it as a great target to trample-bloodrush, since deathtouch and trample as so synergistic. If it is blocked, you only need to deal one damage to each blocker and the rest goes over the top. one-power death touchers usually read: "this will not be blocked". That makes it synergistic with the non-trample-bloodrush. As for ever actually discarding the viper to give something else deathtouch, that is less likely. But given that you have first strikers and tramplers, there is still the possiblity for fun combat tricks.

I'd love to play opposite this deck. It looks challenging to defend against, though weak to point removal/sweepers. Lots of chances to lose card advantage in this kind of deck. I can see the draw to boros charm, or anything else that could stop you from dealing with a 3-for-1.

[Ciraxis]

<Cast's Animate Dead....yet again>

For far too long this thread rested buried. I allow my humble person to bring it back by brainstorming over new creation - Abzan Superfriends (casual). Without further ado:

Lands:

Bayou x4

Savannah x4

Scrubland x4

Vesuva x4

Reflecting Pool x3

Forest x3

 

Creatures:

Selvala,Explorer Returned

Gilder Bairn x3

Artifacts:

Lotus Bloom x2

The Chain Veil x2

Enchantments:

Oath of Gideon

Oath of Nissa

Doubling Season x2

Instants:

Abrupt Decay x2

Go for the Throat x3

Naturalize x2

Swords to Plowshares x3

Putrefy x2

Utter End x2

Planeswalkers:

Ajani Steadfast

Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury

Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Liliana of the Dark Realms

Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

Nissa, Worldwaker

Garruk, Apex Predator

Vraska, the Unseen

 

As you can see this decklist is incomplete. I am still struggling what cards I could put in here (for example, Karn, or Ugin?) or if I should increase amounts of some of them. As always comments and advice will be appreciated.