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Twilight and Spike: NOT FRIENDS?!


SonicRainb00m
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Hey, everypony. After watching the Season 2 finale again (who can resist re-watching it?), I noticed something that confused me in part 1. Just before Twilight begins her song about herself and Shining Armor, she says that, "Shining Armor was the only pony I ever really accepted as a friend". What about Spike?! Now I know she said "pony" and that Spike isn't a pony, but still, she could have said "except Spike" or something like that. Any thoughts on this?

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She could have just been thinking about Shining Armor since she just got the invitation to his wedding at the time. Plus, Spike wasn't anywhere in the song shots. Maybe there was a separate place where Spike was kept because he was a newborn dragon (and, as shown in "The Cutie Mark Chronicles," born by way of a freak accident). Maybe he didn't really start to become Twilight's friend until events shortly before the beginning of the series or a few episodes in. That would certainly qualify a reason not to consider Spike among her friends at the time she started school and spent her time with her older brother.

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hi hi

If you'll notice in the B.B.B.F.F. song, Twilight doesn't have her cutie mark yet, so I think she is referring to a time before she had even met Spike.

Also, if I recall, there was some commentary by one of the writers (or maybe Faust I don't remember) who said that Princess Celestia took care of Spike until he was older. By the time we see Twilight and Spike working together in Friendship is Magic Part 1, they're both a lot older than they were in any of those flashbacks.

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3 things

1) In the flash back, she was without her cutie mark. Ergo, she never met Spike and was not a part of her childhood per say.

2) She mentioned ponies specifically, so I don't think dragons would need to be mentioned.

3) If we go by Faustcanon, then Celestia took care of Spike directly after hatching, and allowed Twilight to attend her school and concentrate on her studies. It wasn't until later that the two were reunited as Celestia saw it fit as Spike was magically hatched due to Twilight.

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Well looks like the knowledgeable ponies here have beaten down my feeble observation... Bravo!

Well to be fair its not that off the mark as Spike by all accounts is Twilights best friend at the beginning before she meets the other ponies and even after Spike still acts like a good friend towards Twilight so why doesnt she see him as a friend?

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ACHTUNG (ATTENTION, couldn't resist putting the German word there) EVERYPONY:

New evidence has come to me. Well, rather, evidence that I ignored before. To put Twilight's quote in context, she says: "Before I came here and learned the importance of friendship, Shining Armor was the only pony I ever really accepted as a friend." I should have put that in the original post, but oh well. Now, Twilight could be forgetting Spike for a moment here due to her fixation on her brother, but come on, forgetting the person you've been living with?

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The way I see it is this... If your parents tell you to make friends and you bring back a dragon. I'm pretty certain they'll say "That's not what we meant." Sure Spike is a sentient creature, however when you are growing up there is a certain expectation to befriend kids of your own age, and in this case, (likely) race. Twilight was singing about that. Hence the concentration on ponies. Not to mention she didn't reunite with Spike until they were both older. She didn't grow up with Spike. It wasn't until she met the mane 6 that she realized the importance of PONY FRIENDS. You know those with she could at least somewhat relate to?

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The way I see it is this... If your parents tell you to make friends and you bring back a dragon. I'm pretty certain they'll say "That's not what we meant." Sure Spike is a sentient creature, however when you are growing up there is a certain expectation to befriend kids of your own age, and in this case, (likely) race. Twilight was singing about that. Hence the concentration on ponies. Not to mention she didn't reunite with Spike until they were both older. She didn't grow up with Spike. It wasn't until she met the mane 6 that she realized the importance of PONY FRIENDS. You know those with she could at least somewhat relate to?

Yes but it is a little off kilter and possibly a little racist

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OK, you are right. So let's look at the first episode and the relationship between all of the characters that we saw. (Granted, I do believe racism against dragons is possible, as you know... dragons seem to be universally feared to at least some degree)

1) Those other mares... Well they were blown off might quickly while trying to invite her to Moondancer's party.

2) Spike... Well he was blown off even quicker. (Remember he wanted to go to Moondancer's party as well) Then basically Twilight ignored him and treated him like an assistant. In fact, throughout the entire first two episodes, we really don't see Spike and Twilight on the same level as she is caught up in her duties or in her studies, and it mostly looks like Spike is there to help her, rather than being her friend. When Spike was trying to be friendly, she blew him off each and every time. Likely he saw himself as her friend, but the question is, did she?

3) The mane 6. Again, initially she blew EVERYPONY off except RD and AJ. The only reason she stayed for AJ willingly is because she felt guilty. And honestly the dialogue was so quick between her and RD that I don't think she had a chance. Rarity, she was forced into extended dialogue and then ran off while Rarity was going to get another garment for her, and Pinkie Pie she stayed in her room while a party was going on FOR HER. And she literally shut the door in Fluttershy's face.

And then everything goes crazy and they have to go into the Everfree forest. This is where she learns the importance of friendship. They basically wouldn't take "no" for an answer and went into the forest without hesitation. Though Twilight saw it as her mission, she was actually the last one in. And she, or the group was saved, by the inherent qualities of each pony, which are relational to important qualities of friendship. She didn't realize this until her back was against the wall and the others were coming to help her. That is when she realized that she had made a connection with other ponies and was actually friends with them. Even Princess Celestia said that Twilight had to let true friendship into her heart. I'd purport that though Spike acted like her friend, she never saw him as such, but rather her responsibility (as she did hatch him) and perhaps her assistant. This is further evidenced by the fact that at times, she does act more motherly towards him, telling him to get rest, or telling him what he can and can't eat.

In the end, it was Rarity, AJ, FS, RD and PP that opened her heart to the possibility of true friendship. So... The song BBBFF still works from what we were shown in the first episode and in all flashbacks (where Spike is not there, showing that he never grew up with her).

And then as Ginger said, it is also the age difference (Again go back to Twilight being more or less the caregiver of Spike)

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I've seen Spike get snubbed multiple times throughout both seasons, though I don't think it's really intentional. Twi's relationship with Spike is more intimate than with her best friends -- I think it's because he's considered more of a little brother to her. Also consider their long history together, as well as his role as her helper.

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ACHTUNG (ATTENTION, couldn't resist putting the German word there) EVERYPONY:

New evidence has come to me. Well, rather, evidence that I ignored before. To put Twilight's quote in context, she says: "Before I came here and learned the importance of friendship, Shining Armor was the only pony I ever really accepted as a friend." I should have put that in the original post, but oh well. Now, Twilight could be forgetting Spike for a moment here due to her fixation on her brother, but come on, forgetting the person you've been living with?

I dont thenk that "only pony besides spike that I ever exepted as a friend." would fit well in the song.

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