S03 E03: "Too Many Pinkie Pies"

[Tenkan]

QuickLime, ping111 and I discuss a little more in the discussion section.

[Dessa]

I am pro secret compartment. Is it a (over-used) plot device? Yes, it is. However, given the time constraint of the episode in question, it did what it needed to do.

How many times does Twilight pluck a book off her shelf to solve the problem du jour? I think by looking up a secret compartment, it gave that scene a little more contrast and whimsy than just simply having her pick up a book/search for a book like she normally does. I think the expectation and thirst for more lore in every episode leads to continued disappointment, especially when writers lean back on well-known cartoon tropes to perpetuate the story within its focus.

Too much lore is a bad thing; hinting at something more and keeping the world mysterious and full of surprises can be good storytelling practice if it's executed properly, carefully crafted lead up or not.

Given how many times Pinkie has been the one to locate Twi's book, an episode about multiple Pinkies would seem like the perfect place to call that back. Heck, make the scene actually worthwhile by letting it be a subtle clue about the real Pinkie.

Twi: Where is that book?

Pinkie: It's right over heeere~♪

Twi: Pinkie, how did you find it?!

Pinkie: I saw it last week when I helped you clean, silly!

Man, maybe they should hire me.

[Rosewind]

Twilight cleaning her library doesn't suggest much, since we have no idea when in the continuity of the story or its history that this took place. It's also entirely possible her library has gathered dust and spider webs since the last time it was cleaned.

The book in question was rather dangerous, given the effect of the spell that it taught Twilight. It made sense for it to be stashed away on its own, instead of on a shelf for anypony to pluck up and read.

Taking a step back to look at the bigger picture, I do not think this is an example of bad writing. It's an example of intelligent writing with a specific focus, with a specific purpose, for a specific audience. FiM has never resigned itself to concrete lore, which leaves the book open to give us fantastic stories beyond belief. You can either choose to suspend your disbelief and roll with it, or writhe in disappointment as the cartoon does not deliver to specific expectations. Yes, we do like the small tidbits of lore they give us -- and outside of the fundamentals we've learned about Equestria, even the most studious of characters really have no idea what is going on, or why. Those who do have yet to tell their stories, and we've been getting strong subplot hints that we can expect more of this as the series progresses.

[Whitehawke]

This persisting discussion of a poorly used plot device is getting tiresome, this will be my last comment on the matter.

If you still don't believe it is a low point of the episode after reading this, then more power to you.

Twilight cleaning her library doesn't suggest much, since we have no idea when in the continuity of the story or its history that this took place. It's also entirely possible her library has gathered dust and spider webs since the last time it was cleaned.

Pinkie Pie is writing a letter to Celestia at the end of the episode, so it must happen after Lesson Zero, which also means it happens after Sonic Rainboom, which establishes Twilight's cleaning/re-shelving habit.

The spider webs are actually lazy design - since when do spiders make their webs inside locked down secret compartments? Where their prey is likely to never venture?

It's a poorly thought-out attempt to tell the audience: "This place hasn't been visited by intelligent life for years!".

The book in question was rather dangerous, given the effect of the spell that it taught Twilight. It made sense for it to be stashed away on its own, instead of on a shelf for anypony to pluck up and read.

If it was dangerous, it would have a password/key system of sorts integrated into it.

Anypony can push the switch that opens the compartment, and unicorns can easily pull it out of there.

Let us not even get into how the mechanism of that switch even works.

Taking a step back to look at the bigger picture, I do not think this is an example of bad writing. It's an example of intelligent writing with a specific focus, with a specific purpose, for a specific audience. FiM has never resigned itself to concrete lore, which leaves the book open to give us fantastic stories beyond belief. You can either choose to suspend your disbelief and roll with it, or writhe in disappointment as the cartoon does not deliver to specific expectations. Yes, we do like the small tidbits of lore they give us -- and outside of the fundamentals we've learned about Equestria, even the most studious of characters really have no idea what is going on, or why. Those who do have yet to tell their stories, and we've been getting strong subplot hints that we can expect more of this as the series progresses.

This has nothing to do with the problem with this plot device.

The issue is that there is no relevance to make such a vapid and thoughtless change to a commonly recurring locale for the sole purpose of giving an extra trait to a MacGuffin.

See, this isn't about how bad this scene is, this is about how it has nothing relevant with the topic of the episode.

Let's go into why this happened in the first place: the episode starts, Pinkie is conflicted about which of her friends she wants to spend time with.

She needs to find a way to get to both of her friends and spend time with both of them, but it's impossible alone.

Suddenly, convenient solution: A pool that can multiply her! But wait! She can't directly know of this pool already, so it must be a "legend" that she only "heard" about.

She immediately does what the legend says and finds the pool.

THIS is why the secret compartment is ultimately made: to follow into the "legend of the mirroring pool". Twilight can't know about how to deal with the problem at hoof, so she has to research and find information about how she can solve it. But the pool is still just a legend that was mentioned to her briefly, so the source of information cannot be in a common book.

So a secret compartment is introduced.

Just for this one and only purpose.

This one scene.

This is called writing yourself into a corner, and pulling something out of your "plot" to get out of it.

Swarm of the Century had a similar situation: a new creature is introduced, and it is established over time that it is a major problem due to its mass reproducing ability as well as its boundless hunger. However, it is also shown that Pinkie knows how to get rid of it, but needs the proper tools first. As the episode goes by, we see the ponies try various solutions to get rid of the creatures, but none of them work. Pinkie then appears and quickly gets rid of all of them alone, due to her knowledge of them.

See, if you look carefully, there are 2 things never explained here: where the parasprites came from, and how Pinkie knew how to get rid of them. Why? Because it doesn't matter! THIS IS NOT WHAT THAT EPISODE'S TOPIC WAS ABOUT!

It was about learning to listen to your friends' opinions and perspectives.

It is not explained where the parasprites came from, because calling them a "legendary" creature would not serve any purpose to the plot whatsoever.

It is not explained how Pinkie Pie knew how to get rid of them, because making a "secret" compartment for her instruments would not serve any purpose to the plot whatsoever.

This episode's topic was about how you need to choose which of your friends you want to spend time with, and accepting that a good friend will always make more time for you.

Instead of Pinkie Pie searching for the pool through a legend she was told through her nana, perhaps she could have gone to Zecora for help but stumbled upon the pool while walking there. And the pool doesn't need an incantation to work.

See? It avoids contradictions, and gets to the point, if a little conveniently. It would have also been easier for the situation to get out of hoof, because the clones continuously chanting the incantation to make more clones was stupid, even for them.

And finally, this would have avoided the need to make the book Twilight was searching for extra special. It would have only needed to be a book in her library with the relevant information.

One last thing, and this is giving Dave Polsky MAXIMUM credit here: if he had written an entire set of foreshadowing scenes for this episode, then his failure to account that this show runs for only 22 minutes each episode is to blame.

[weesh]

Your irritated tone notwithstanding, I appreciate you explaining it. Your frustration with the plot is understandable.

Perhaps my lack of knowledge about how stories are supposed to work insulated me from the bad writing. While the weaknesses are apparent now, they were not bothersome at the time.

[SteelEagle]

Whitehawke, I get where you're coming from, but the majority of episodes in this series fall prey to some of the same problems you describe. The difference is the name of the writer. Polsky, Larson, and Meghan could literally write the same script and Polsky would get the most flack. Same goes with puns. When it was Lauren coming up with or just suggesting these absolutely awful horse puns, everyone rolled their eyes and laughed and called it charming. But that silly new book has Aquastria, which is apparently a sign that well they just don't care. It's no worse than the puns Lauren made, but we accepted the crud that Lauren fed us just like we accept the crud that is fed to us by many of the writers- save Polsky and one other I forgot.

You have quite literally made a mountain out of a molehill that exists with everyone else. Don't get so worked up for no reason.

[Dessa]

Whitehawke, I get where you're coming from, but the majority of episodes in this series fall prey to some of the same problems you describe. The difference is the name of the writer. Polsky, Larson, and Meghan could literally write the same script and Polsky would get the most flack. Same goes with puns. When it was Lauren coming up with or just suggesting these absolutely awful horse puns, everyone rolled their eyes and laughed and called it charming. But that silly new book has Aquastria, which is apparently a sign that well they just don't care. It's no worse than the puns Lauren made, but we accepted the crud that Lauren fed us just like we accept the crud that is fed to us by many of the writers- save Polsky and one other I forgot.

You have quite literally made a mountain out of a molehill that exists with everyone else. Don't get so worked up for no reason.

This doesn't even make any sense. Whitehawke is pointing out, with specific examples and detailed explanations, why he felt like these were examples of bad writing. Not just lame jokes, but actual poorly structured storytelling. Nopony is saying Polsky can't tell a good joke. He's actually pretty good at this. We're saying he has trouble telling stories well, which is a seperate criticism.

Because, poke fun at Faust's humor if you wish, the show has never been as consistently plotted, chatacterized, and set as well as it has been since Faust was at the helm. And that includes the Polsky eps.

[SteelEagle]

This doesn't even make any sense. Whitehawke is pointing out, with specific examples and detailed explanations, why he felt like these were examples of bad writing. Not just lame jokes, but actual poorly structured storytelling. Nopony is saying Polsky can't tell a good joke. He's actually pretty good at this. We're saying he has trouble telling stories well, which is a seperate criticism.

Because, poke fun at Faust's humor if you wish, the show has never been as consistently plotted, chatacterized, and set as well as it has been since Faust was at the helm. And that includes the Polsky eps.

I am fairly certain you misunderstood my post, Dessa. Likely my fault for including two separate topics in the same post, even if I assumed others would be able to differentiate them.

The poorly structured storytelling points Whitehawke brought up are valid. They also apply to a lot of episodes that I don't think are criticized nearly as often. I believe this is due to the writers and our perception of them, which reminds me how...

...We gave Lauren a pass for all the cruddy horse puns she tossed our way, but have been highly critical of puns that come from other sources. I believe these issues are linked by the fans having different standards and reactions based not on quality, but on personal reception of those with creative influence.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Inexplicable things do happen often in Friendship is Magic, but usually the writers are pretty good at Lampshade Hanging, when they do. Like when Pinkie Pie miraculously grabs the right book, other ponies ask "How'd you do that?" It helps keep belief suspended when they can acknowledge their own oddities.

There were a lot of things in the episode that were not explained, and by itself that might not have been a problem, but when they weren't even acknowledged, its not hard for people to feel like the writers don't think highly of our intelligence. (and its not just a matter of being a show for kids. In my experience, one of the most well used word in a child's vocabulary is often "why?")

As for puns, I don't know of any puns that got criticism that didn't deserve it. Las Pegasus for example, wasn't one of Faust's puns, but it lit up the discourse with people eagerly trying to determine which city it was referring to. Aquastria on the other hand is kind of a lame pun because of a few different reasons. It is self referential. Equestria is already a pun, so that makes Aquastria a pun of a pun. Also, by going that extra step, the pony element of the pun was removed entirely. Aqua is a pretty common prefix, which also lacks a sense of cleverness. (On the other hoof, Canterlot, is one of the strongest puns in the series because it draws on a less well known and harder to rhyme gait, and a specific and rarely used but legendary name from history.) Still, I haven't heard any flak about that pun until just now.

[Dessa]

I kinda like the "Aquastria" pun.

[weesh]

I kinda like the "Aquastria" pun.

Not a surprise "bronita" : )

[ping111]

I kinda like the "Aquastria" pun.

Me too, but after proofreading for an imbecile who called Equestria "aquestria" for a couple months, if it starts with "A" and ends with "ia", I AM OUT.

[NovaArkwing]

The shroud of the Pinkie side has fallen. Begun, the Clone wars have...

[colour=#000000]WELP, we're royally screwed...[/colour]

[DreamNotes]

All I'm saying about this episode is sad Pinkie makes me sad ; ;

[Rosewind]

Fantastic response, Whitehawke! I think you make some good, solid points, and I actually agree with several of them. I also must say I agree with Steel with his "mountain out of a molehill" sentiment, but this should in no way devalue your opinions and thoughts on the matter, as they do have a certain gravity to you that is undeniably clear.

Thank you for taking the time to explain and discuss your thoughts to give more clarity to this topic.

Also all that stuff happened because Pinkie Pie.

[DreamNotes]

Ok now that I'm more coherent, than when I last posted, I can give my actual thoughts on this episode. Honestly, not counting the two parters since their in there own catagory too me, this is one of my favorite episode very possible my new favorite. Not only is it a pinkie episode, it has some really good life lessons. Like trying not too stretch yourself too thin, or stress over it either, if you can't make it too one you can't make it too one. Also moderation, I mean really pinkie is great and amazing and awesome, but look what happens when you get too many pinkies. It's just too much of a great thing, and let's not forget that poor poor 4th wall that was oh so violated. And all the problems could have been avoided if Pinkie, or even all the Pinkies, weren't so stuck on having fun, they could have found the real Pinkie without the paint drying.

Ok, onto the next part of my thoughts, I loved the watching paint dry. I swear I've seen everything that was done during that in meme's, so that really was just one massive shout out too bronies!

All and all I loved it, though I swear, and this is the only time you will ever hear me admit too it, I almost cried when the real pinkie was all upset and sad. This is still now one of my favorite episodes.

[HopeFox]

I quite enjoyed this episode. It wasn't particularly hard-hitting, the way that Season 2 got towards the end, but it was good fun. Sure, Twilight's solution to the problem doesn't hold up too well under close scrutiny, but it's hardly the only episode like that. I think the overall moral of "merely having fun isn't as important as being with your friends" was reasonably well done. It was highlighted quite well by Pinkie's consideration when Rainbow was snoozing by the pool, compared to the way the clones harrassed her later.

I'm trying to decide whether I felt worse for Pinkie Pie in this episode, "Baby Cakes" or "Party of One". The thing that really moved me here was how subdued Pinkie's sadness was. Her breakdown in "Party of One" was very dramatic and segued quickly into anger. Her despair in "Baby Cakes" was particularly moving because it was all about her own failures as a carer, and the look of stress and anxiety on her face was really effective. Here, though, it was much more subdued - she just stood around poking her hoof at the ground, moping over how badly she'd messed things up and how she might not ever get to spend time with her friends again. I felt really bad for her, and that was very well done.

[Dessa]

In regards to storytelling, I'm with this lady:

17. Your body of work demonstrates a zeal for character-driven media. What have you seen in your career that compels you to champion and create this style of media, and why do you pursue your specific dreams and aspirations? In short, what does Lauren Faust hope to achieve - and leave behind?

I champion character-driven stories and humor because character-driven stuff is just what I like to watch and what I like to do. I think making your audience experience an emotional reaction is the core of good storytelling, and you can’t evoke emotion without likable, relatable characters. Some shows focus on gags and written jokes and have an exclusive goal to get laughs, but I prefer comedy that has a sincere emotional core...and humor that comes from characters, not one-liners.

And to me, this episode felt more gag-driven than character driven. Storytelling, despite the assertions of some, is not just another word for "plot." Predictable plotting doesn't preclude good storytelling, and I think previous episodes are examples of this.

[elsporko]

Pinkie Pie definitely had a journey in the episode. If anything it is the actions of the other characters towards the end that kind of ruin it since the solution had nothing to do with her learning to be more reserved and having a crisis over if she really exists

[Boss_Hoss1]

hi hi

Actually, while sunlight will tan skin, due to an increase in melanin production, hair isn't made of living tissue and the pigments will gradually bleach when exposed to enough sunlight. So for ponies, sunbathing would actually lighten the colour of their coats.

Ohhh That actually make sense. The parts of RD that normally get sun are her back, so she's just keeping the colours even by sunning her front? Good idea!

[Cadabra]

Found a great cover song that made me think of this episode in a whole new light:

[rjrgmc28]

Thought I give the heads up to those who have downloaded the episode from iTunes that Apple has sent out an email indicating that some copies of the episode may have had some noticeable quality issues and a replacement copy is available to download free of charge.

It looks like someone at Hasbro or the Hub has been given a grilling or two over the glitched episodes, and it's starting to look like that the later episodes in this season that may have also been affected may start to get replacement copies.