S03 E10 - "Keep Calm and Flutter On"

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I'm not sure what to tell you Weesh. I cannot read minds, so I don't know what the writers intended, but it seems to me like they were trying to start making Fluttershy's friends seem petty and vindictive for not giving Discord a chance. Getting the audience feeling some sympathy for Discord at the start, maybe.

Considering that up until that point at the end, nobody had any concrete evidence that Discord wasn't just acting the part of a friend in order to manipulate Fluttershy, I had figured that abrupt was their plan.

Perhaps one way they could have smoothed out the transition could have been if Discord had been in the process of gloating, talking about all the ways he'd tricked Fluttershy and how he'd been acting the whole time. In the process of doing so, he stops and realizes that some of those moments were actually genuine. Sort of a "When I said such and such, I was lying, and when I said "such and such," wait... that couldn't have been for real, could it?" That would show that even he was as surprised as the audience at the change.

[weesh]

It was certainly a funny line, but I would like to think that they could have funny lines that also made sense for the character.

[TheInvisiblePony]

You know, I've given the episode some more thought, and I've decided.

I would totally watch a spinoff series starring Discord and Fluttershy.

[weesh]

I would totally watch a spinoff series starring Discord and Fluttershy.

What would it be called?

[Tenkan]

Such a fun episode to watch!

I wouldn't have minded having the story go on for two episodes, considering I found Discord's quick change of heart a little...quick.

Nonetheless, the jokes and Discord's awesome personality is what kept me liking this episode.

Also, I have a feeling this episode will change of a lot of concepts all us bronies had about Discord, and that he's not an evil guy. Maybe it's just his nature to be chaotic and he really couldn't help himself from indulging in the fun.

The most thing I was happy about was the return of Fluttershy's stronger side, and the idea that Discord wasn't turned back to stone...and that meaning we might see him again in another episode.

[rjhoney]

What would it be called?

"The Odd Couple"

"My Life with the King of Chaos"

"My Chaotic roommate"

"Who else but Discord?"

"leave it to Discord"

[elsporko]

hi hi

Yeah, that reform spell was pretty dark. Considering how Celestia has been acting this season, I couldn't help but wonder myself exactly how she manages to keep Equestria in a state of peace and harmony...

On the topic of Fluttershy bullying Discord into being her friend by punishing him for disobedience, I would agree that it is a weakness in the story, because it muddies the issue. However, I think its not too unreasonable to assume that Fluttershy hadn't planned for that to happen, and that she was legitimately upset that Discord hadn't agreed to cooperate on his own. Fluttershy never threatened to take away her friendship as a condition of working together, it was Discord who suggested that it was all part of a plan.

I think the episode would have been better if that had been more clear, if I didn't have to wiggle around to reach that conclusion, but at least there is enough wiggle room to do so.

(Also, going along with what Weesh said, it might have been better if, rather than saying she had an important summit to attend, Celestia had said something like "I should go, because my presence will make this more difficult for you." As far as establishing trust is concerned.)

I don't see how not approving of what somebody does is bullying?

I worked with juvenile delinquents. One method is to gain their trust and when they have inappropriate behavior to let them know you are disappointed. It helps them develop a moral compass of their own as long as you guide them in the right direction.

[TheInvisiblePony]

What would it be called?

I'm partial to Friendship is Magic: The Next Generation

Cause, you know, Star Trek.

[Lerian]

I don't see how not approving of what somebody does is bullying?

I worked with juvenile delinquents. One method is to gain their trust and when they have inappropriate behavior to let them know you are disappointed. It helps them develop a moral compass of their own as long as you guide them in the right direction.

It may have been a time issue for the episode or, more likely, my mis-interpretation but it simply seemed a little too overt or 'binary' an expression.

'We're not friends!'

Perhaps, to me, it seemed too much like 'You're a bad person' rather than 'you did a bad thing'.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Telling someone that you are not their friend anymore is not a trust building technique, it is a bridge burning technique, and it is punitive. That is typically what you do when you're ready to end a friendship and not have trust at all anymore.

Authoritative parenting/mentoring/teaching does involve consistent and fair discipline, but it also demands encouragement. Telling someone that you do not like them anymore is not encouraging. That would be like telling a juvenile delinquent that you are working with, "You're hopeless, and I'm not dealing with you anymore." Its also not consistent, because you can only really do it once. If you end up saying it regularly, it loses all meaning.

When Fluttershy told Discord that his behavior was reckless and that he needed to fix it, that was indicating her disappointment and trying to establish a moral compass, but that didn't work.

[elsporko]

I will have to reevaluate after watching the episode again, but I'm pretty sure directly breaking trust as well as causing wide spread destruction is a good reason to tell somebody you aren't going to be friends with somebody. If a delinquint set a good friend's house on fire I would very likely no longer wish to be their friend

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I'm confused here, is the assertion that Fluttershy's "Not. Your. Friend." line is a method of gaining trust, or is it not?

Personally, I wouldn't have wanted to be Discord's friend either, from the start. He caused wide spread destruction the last two times he was turned to stone, and the mane six had every reason to want him to be imprisoned for the next 1000 years and beyond.

That Fluttershy tried to gain his trust in the first place is commendable, but if depriving Discord of her friendship was a calculated move to punish him for disobedience and get him to behave, then she was little better than her friends who were planning to punish him by using the Elements of Harmony again. The episode is not clear whether or not that is the case, but there is room to give Fluttershy the benefit of the doubt and assume that she wasn't trying to be cold, calculating and manipulative when she did that.

I have a friend who's wife regularly tells him she is going to divorce him when she gets upset with him. Its a hurtful thing to say, but it didn't take him long to stop taking her seriously, and I'm sad to say, there is not much trust between the two. It is plainly not a good method of getting someone to cooperate, and the only saving grace in this episode is that Fluttershy might not have done so on purpose, and that Discord had never considered it before.

You can only take away your friendship so many times before someone realizes that you're just blowing hot air, and if you make it stick, then they have no incentive to care about making you happy, so it doesn't work as a long term means of correcting someone's behavior.

[NoGiantRobots1983]

FWIW, I personally thought Fluttershy was serious. Discord may have assumed she was faking it ("well played, Fluttershy") but Fluttershy's behavior reads to me as "No, that's it, I'm done."

[elsporko]

The impression I get is that it wasn't a calculated move. He pushed her too far. She doesn't seem like she is calculating to me. If it was a threat she would have actually said something that was a threat. Instead she just said she was gone.