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Official Discussion Thread - S05E7 Make New Friends But Keep Discord


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Well, think. You don't appeal to the young audience with pop culture references, so why is it necessary to do the same in order to cater to older audiences?

 

It's not neccesary to include references, but why does something need to be neccesary to be worthwhile? What in a show designed for the purpose of entertainment does it even really mean for something to be "neccesary"? Shouldn't just the fact that its entertaining warrant it.

 

Besides, references to things are not anything new. They've been a facet of the show since the earliest episodes.

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So many people trying to misconstrue my words...

All I've said is that there are less lazy methods of nodding to the adult audience, nothing more, nothing less. I hardly think you can have a problem with that.

But how exactly is it lazy? That, I think is what we're trying to figure out. When the Smooze reappears and floods the room, how does framing the scene like a famous scene from The Shining make it lazier?

 

It's especially an odd complaint when it wasn't the only approach to humor in the episode nor the most dominant one. For me at least, most of the humor came from the great deadpan humor from Maud and Treehugger, the creative sight gags, and the good dose of slapstick with the Smooze. The references were more just a fun addition on top of it all.

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I don't see how any of that is relevant.

 

You said it was lazy. I asked you how.

 

You made a statement that there are less lazy approaches to humor than referencing things. I made the point that the episode used multiple other approaches in achieving its humor.

 

My words are a direct rebuttal to yours. How is that not relevant?

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You made a statement that there are less lazy approaches to humor than referencing things.

All I've said is that there are less lazy methods of nodding to the adult audience

Your examples of other approaches are not attempts to pander to the adult fanbase. Moreover, I have no disagreement that there are other forms of humor in the episode. I'm unaware of how you seem to have come to believe otherwise, as I never suggested that the silly references were all the episode had to offer in the way of humor.

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Your examples of other approaches are not attempts to pander to the adult fanbase. Moreover, I have no disagreement that there are other forms of humor in the episode. I'm unaware of how you seem to have come to believe otherwise, as I never suggested that the silly references were all the episode had to offer in the way of humor.

 

Because the references exist as jokes for the sole purpose of people recognizing them and finding humor in them. That is their design and their function, so it just followed that we were talking about their merit as an approach to humor.

 

I'm not honestly sure what is meant by "nodding to the adult fanbase" in regards to these little refference jokes if we're not talking about this in the context of the adult audience finding humor in them.

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For the third time, I must assume you aren't quite understanding my post. None of that is relevant to what I said.

Well, it is entirely relevant. Again, it is direct counterpoint to the post you just made.

 

That said, I can confirm that I am indeed not understanding you; that's my entire point in continuing here. I'm trying to understand, but none of what you are saying about the subject makes any sense to me.

 

I'll ask again. Why exactly is making references lazy? What do you mean by nodding to the adult fanbase if you do not mean providing humor that adults enjoy? What else, perhaps, would you have the show do instead of making references?

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Well, it is entirely relevant. Again, it is direct counterpoint to the post you just made.

I don't think it is.

 

And I would think it's self evident as to why references are lazy. They aren't "humor" in any honest sense of the word, nor are they original material from the writers. They simply exist, without relevance to the story being told nor the world we are seeing. It's not a joke, or a connection, or anything really. It's as simple as just saying "This is something someone else made."

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I don't think it is.

 

And I would think it's self evident as to why references are lazy. They aren't "humor" in any honest sense of the word, nor are they original material from the writers. They simply exist, without relevance to the story being told nor the world we are seeing. It's not a joke, or a connection, or anything really. It's as simple as just saying "This is something someone else made."

yeah but I wouldn't necessarily call pop culture references lazy especially when they're in such small form, honestly the amount of pop culture references that friendship is magic makes is quite minor in the grand scheme of things it certainly far less than a show like Family Guy The Simpsons or some other programs. honestly the show does not exist in a bubble and makes perfect sense when a character like discord uses pop culture as opposed to say Peter Griffin
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I don't think it is.

 

And I would think it's self evident as to why references are lazy. They aren't "humor" in any honest sense of the word, nor are they original material from the writers. They simply exist, without relevance to the story being told nor the world we are seeing. It's not a joke, or a connection, or anything really. It's as simple as just saying "This is something someone else made."

 

You said in your the post that you were unsure of how I had come to think you were talking about the references in the episode as an approach to humor. I explained why it was I thought that--that that is the reason the references exist. It was a direct response to the words you said and thus entirely relevant.

 

And there we go. Finally you explain yourself a little. I would say you're wrong though, because the reference are by definition most certainly jokes--that is something done with humorous intent--and they are as relvent to the story as about any other joke included (which is to say not very relevent at all). Just because you don't find them funny personally doesn't mean that others won't or that they are not jokes.

 

As for originality, why should that matter if it's amusing? it's not exactly stealing if the things are repurposed. And again, as said before, it really isn't like the show making references to things only adults would get is anything new. Goes back all the way to season one. Why is this something to take issue with now?

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You said in your the post that you were unsure of how I had come to think you were talking about the references in the episode as an approach to humor. I explained why it was I thought that--that that is the reason the references exist. It was a direct response to the words you said and thus entirely relevant.

 

And there we go. Finally you explain yourself a little. I would say you're wrong though, because the reference are by definition most certainly jokes--that is something done with humorous intent--and they are as relvent to the story as about any other joke included (which is to say not very relevent at all). Just because you don't find them funny personally doesn't mean that others won't or that they are not jokes.

 

As for originality, why should that matter if it's amusing? it's not exactly stealing if the things are repurposed. And again, as said before, it really isn't like the show making references to things only adults would get is anything new. Goes back all the way to season one. Why is this something to take issue with now?

indeed that's what I'm thinking too I mean sure pop culture references are not for everyone but honestly the pop culture references the show makes is miniscule
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You said in your the post that you were unsure of how I had come to think you were talking about the references in the episode as an approach to humor.

Yet again, you reeeally need to look at my posts a little more carefully. This is the fourth time you seem to have made a completely false claim about my own words.

 

the reference are by definition most certainly jokes--that is something done with humorous intent--and they are as relvent to the story as about any other joke included (which is to say not very relevent at all).

Wrong on both counts, but since you're the one making the claim I'll let you provide the evidence this time.

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Yet again, you reeeally need to look at my posts a little more carefully. This is the fourth time you seem to have made a completely false claim about my own words.

 

Wrong on both counts, but since you're the one making the claim I'll let you provide the evidence this time.

How is it false? I was looking right at your post when I wrote  it and you said. "I have no disagreement that there are other forms of humor in the episode. I'm unaware of how you seem to have come to believe otherwise" This is what prompted me to explain why I was lead to assume otherwise, which was the goal of my post.

 

Also, how exactly am I anywhere close to wrong? The dictionary definition of a joke is: "something said or done to cause laughter". How do the references not qualify for that? Can you honestly tell me that the purpose on the part of the writers or stroyboarders of having Discord pop out of a box in a reference to Metal Gear was something other than to cause people to laugh?

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How is it false?

I can't give any explanation more sufficient than "Read it again."

 

 

Can you honestly tell me that the purpose on the part of the writers or stroyboarders of having Discord pop out of a box in a reference to Metal Gear was something other than to cause people to laugh?

Yes, I can, because it wasn't a joke. The enjoyment of a pop culture reference comes from recognizing something from somewhere else, but that doesn't automatically (or even often) amount to "funny".

Can you offer any argument to suggest that it WAS meant to get a laugh?

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The issue is less Rarity is not capable of understanding your points but more that you haven't communicated them very well, Dulset. Try to do a better job detailing your points rather than just saying, "no you're wrong try again". Consider that communication is a two-way street and if multiple people are having difficulty understanding you, perhaps you are the one who should try again to be clear.

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I can't give any explanation more sufficient than "Read it again."

 

 

Yes, I can, because it wasn't a joke. The enjoyment of a pop culture reference comes from recognizing something from somewhere else, but that doesn't automatically (or even often) amount to "funny".

Can you offer any argument to suggest that it WAS meant to get a laugh?

SteelEagle is right, so I'll drop that particular point.

 

As for it not being a joke... that's just ridiculous as the entire bit functions as a joke even if you don't happen to get the signficance of the exclamation mark. We have Discord starting the scene in a cardboard box for no explained reason and then being correctly identified by Pinkie before we know he's inside. it's something entirely silly and irreverent, not unlike the other nonsenical things he does, and clearly intended to draw amusement and indeed laughter from an audience.

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You seem completely aware already that Pinkie recognizing Discord "incognito" was the joke, yes.

The reference, however, is not part of the joke. It adds nothing more than, well, a reference. An opportunity for the audience to say "Hey look, a reference."

There is no inherent humor from "Discord references Metal Gear" or "Discord in a box". There isn't meant to be.

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I will never understand this ship...  Too chaotic!

 

Saturday is upon us again and with it another new episode of the show we love, so sit back and watch adorable ponies do adorable things! This episode marks the return of the ponies' most annoyingly sucessful troll, er, Fluttershy's good friend, Discord ! :Flutter: This also means, yes, we have our first Fluttershy focused episode, so yay!  Who is Fluttershy's new friend and how fast will the fandom ship them?  What will happen at this year's gala and will it involve the royal guard and jail time?  Will another classic character make an appearance? Tune in to find out! The episode airs Saturday 11:30 AM EST on May 16th. :)<3

 

This thread is dedicated to discussing the episode before, during, and afterwards. As the thread is now open it may indeed contain spoilers. I ask that potential spoilers talked about or shown before the episode airs stay within the spoiler tags please, after the episode you no longer have to use the spoiler tags, but warning, if you haven't seen the episode yet after it airs, this thread no doubt will have all sorts of spoilers in reviews, images, etc. So tread at your own risk. :)

 

It's too adorable! <3

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You seem completely aware already that Pinkie recognizing Discord "incognito" was the joke, yes.

The reference, however, is not part of the joke. It adds nothing more than, well, a reference. An opportunity for the audience to say "Hey look, a reference."

There is no inherent humor from "Discord references Metal Gear" or "Discord in a box". There isn't meant to be.

 

Ah, so you're saying that if they make a reference joke they need to make the actual joke funny regardless of whether or not one understands the reference? 

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*rubs brow* I really tried hard to ignore this debate... I really did but... well... I can't.

duty_calls.png

 

So let's start out with the whole laziness bit... So inserting shout-outs [references] is a lazy way to connect with adult fans? First off... it is so amazingly egocentric that you assume that they are inserting those references for you or any other fan. I've gone to cons, listened and read interviews from writers and storyboard artists... Most of them don't even consider what will or won't be well received by fans, they think, first and foremost what they like and they enjoy (and it just so happens they are paid because they are very good at comedy and writing so what they think is good happens to be well received most of the time) or what they think is funny or interesting. Considering that this isn't the first MGS reference, we can infer there is someone either on the storyboard team or the writing team (perhaps even the animation team) that simply likes MGS, and they are inserting what they enjoy into their job [creating MLP episodes]. To even suggest that is being lazy is so amazingly obtuse it physically hurts me. The amount of effort it takes to put in, whether it is the animators, the storyboard artists, the writers or anyone else on the MLP creative team, to put out just a single episode is enormous.

 

But let's leave that aside for a moment... Jokes not needing shout-outs... Well duh. Shout-outs and references have been in popular media for decades. Literally decades (Possibly centuries, I really don't have the time, knowledge or inclination to sift through centuries of books and a century of movies). But they have been done constantly. Are they usually directed at adults? Of course, but again, the creators usually put them in because THEY wanted to, and for no other reason. Pandering seems to be a fairly new thing that people claim. No adult watching the Animaniacs claimed that referencing popculture of the time that only adults would know was pandering to the parents watching the show, fans or not. Looney Toons? Chock full of references and shout-outs. Not one was actually intended for anyone other than the creators just referencing things they enjoyed personally. Again, the consideration that these things are meant for us as a group is so incredibly egocentric it is baffling. And yes a lot of jokes can be done without, and some jokes require the reference, but most times it is because they wanted to do a shout-out to something that they like. The jokes are usually separate, and I'm sure they could think of other ways to put in the same joke without the shout out. But why would they? What motivation do they have since shout-outs do not add nor subtract anything from the joke. So long as it is funny and enjoyable the desired effect has been achieved. 

 

You claim it is lazy writing, but I do not think that word means what you think it means. Cho Chang's name was lazy. In case you don't get what. Cho is a Korean surname, and Chang is a Chinese surname. Instead of giving the character an actual Asian-British identity, she gave her a generic Asian identity. This is the writers, storyboard artists, and animators having fun with the show that they are on. And that to me makes it more enjoyable and gives it more personality. And pretty much every cartoon in the past two decades does it. Is every single of those writers, storyboard artists and animators lazy? If so then so are a number of fanfic writers, and fan animators (pretty much all of them, because again, they are all inserting things that they want to see and having fun with what they are creating). 

 

Are there other ways to nod to the adult fandom? Yes, but who is to say those shoutouts are to the adult fandom? The writers and artists are also people and have their own likes and dislikes and do it as much for themselves as they do for us. In the end they are having fun while they are working. And perhaps that is the issue people have. Yes they could do without those things, but then if we as a fandom force them to stop doing what they want to do I say, how dare you. How dare you dictate what those hard working creators do to bring us entertainment weekly. If they want to put a reference in with a joke, or leave them out, it is up to them and it is their prerogative. It is their show, not ours. We have our own stuff which they are content with letting us run with for the most part so long as it doesn't infringe on Hasbro's IP (like Fighting is Magic or any other brony game). And again we are not much better at it. Yet we laud the fancreators for putting in what ever convoluted reference or fanon into their work and we admonish those that actually bring us full featured content for doing the same.

Whether or not you enjoyed this episode because of that is on you. But do not claim to know the motives of the creative team. 

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I would consider that a good idea, but it's not what I'm saying.

I'm pointing out that even in the example Rarity gave, the joke and the reference are separate. The reference by itself is not a joke, and the joke would be no less funny without the reference.

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