Official Discussion Thread - S05E7 Make New Friends But Keep Discord

[PrinceoftheNight]

I need a new bag of popcorns for this....

[DulsetTarn]

I feel it is another way to engage the adults of the target audience.  The show has always meant to be for young girls and the parents or guardians who watch with them.  One of the reason I like this show is that it entertains both kids and adults (well that and the cuteness, and the expressions, oh I love expressive animation).  That bit that imitated the scene from the Shining is a great example, aimed right at the parents (as I doubt even most of the brony fanbase is aware of a scene from a movie from the late Seventies).

 

I also notice this tends to be dialed up in Discord episodes as part of his "shtick", with was certainly inspired by Q in Next Generation pulling off similar humor (references to different time periods, cultures, etc).

Yeah Brian, why you gotta be so egocentric, thinking these things are for your entertainment? ;P

[starswirlthebearded]

I would consider that a good idea, but it's not what I'm saying.

I'm pointing out that even in the example Rarity gave, the joke and the reference are separate. The reference by itself is not a joke, and the joke would be no less funny without the reference.

 

I... said that.... Again, they normally do things for themselves first and it happens that other people like the same things. Amazing coincidences that. 

 

Yeah Brian, why you gotta be so egocentric, thinking these things are for your entertainment? ;P

 

Congratulations on twisting what I said into a negative. But you missed the point entirely. He didn't really claim anything egocentric. You did. He did not claim they needed to be removed. He enjoys them because he /feels/ (note that he never makes the explicit claim that they are) that they are a nod and supports why he feels that it is so. You claim that they are unnecessary and need to be removed because there are other ways to nod to the adult fandom. THAT is an egocentric view. Because you are imposing YOUR VIEWS and IDEALS onto something that is inherently not yours. That is egocentricism. You do not know their motivation for including the shoutouts they do. You can't, you are not them. Again, there is a higher possibility that they are fans of the things they are making shoutouts to and they are doing it for no other reason than to pay homage to what they enjoy. 

[DulsetTarn]

I... said that.... Again, they normally do things for themselves first and it happens that other people like the same things. Amazing coincidences that.

We are in agreement!

 

 

You claim that they are unnecessary and need to be removed because there are other ways to nod to the adult fandom. THAT is an egocentric view. Because you are imposing YOUR VIEWS and IDEALS onto something that is inherently not yours. That is egocentricism.

[citation needed]

[starswirlthebearded]

Well, think. You don't appeal to the young audience with pop culture references, so why is it necessary to do the same in order to cater to older audiences?

 

Cited. You make the inference that they are not necessary. Thus not needed, and thus should be removed or not used in lieu of what you consider 'less lazy means.'

 

 

Also, just to note. Though they are not needed, it isn't our choice. I enjoy shout-outs because to me, that means that the creators enjoy the same things I do, and it is fun to catch them. The box was rather obvious, but they have done some very very subtle shoutouts before as well. While they are not necessary, they are fun for audience members that catch them, and fun for them because they are putting out what they enjoy into the show they are creating. It has little to do with nodding to the fandom and all to do with what they wish to insert into the story they are creating.

[DulsetTarn]

Cited. You make the inference that they are not necessary. Thus not needed, and thus should be removed or not used in lieu of what you consider 'less lazy means.'

Whoa, ok buddy, maybe you should lie down for a bit.

[starswirlthebearded]

Whoa, ok buddy, maybe you should lie down for a bit.

 

If you'd like I have more citations...

 

 

 

So many people trying to misconstrue my words...

All I've said is that there are less lazy methods of nodding to the adult audience, nothing more, nothing less. I hardly think you can have a problem with that.

 

 

Your examples of other approaches are not attempts to pander to the adult fanbase. Moreover, I have no disagreement that there are other forms of humor in the episode. I'm unaware of how you seem to have come to believe otherwise, as I never suggested that the silly references were all the episode had to offer in the way of humor.

 

Suggesting that they are lazy and they should change their methods.

 

 

 

And I would think it's self evident as to why references are lazy. They aren't "humor" in any honest sense of the word, nor are they original material from the writers. They simply exist, without relevance to the story being told nor the world we are seeing. It's not a joke, or a connection, or anything really. It's as simple as just saying "This is something someone else made."

 

Suggesting that they are lazy and are making claims to their motivation as to why they are inserting them.

 

 

I don't care why they insert them. The joke was that she picked out Discord directly. And yes, it would have been just as funny if he was a lampshade or something else. But the reference was because they wanted to insert something they enjoyed. Some people find humor in that, others don't. That doesn't matter in the slightest, because whether or not the intent was humour or not is unknown to us. As again it could very well be them just putting in a reference to something they enjoy, nothing more nothing less.

[RarityDash]

I would consider that a good idea, but it's not what I'm saying.

I'm pointing out that even in the example Rarity gave, the joke and the reference are separate. The reference by itself is not a joke, and the joke would be no less funny without the reference.

 

Not entirely true. In that specific example, the reference and joke are not separate at all. The joke is that Discord is randomly in a box and gets noticed by Pinkie as a silly way to start the scene; I said even if you don't know the significance of the exclamation mark that appears the joke still works, which is true, but even if the exclamation mark wasn't there and it was just the box and him being noticed like that it would still be a a rather obvious allusion to Metal Gear Solid.

 

In the general sense, yes, referencing something in pop culture does not equate to a joke. Obviously. That was never my point. My point was that the references in this particular episode of My Little Pony do exist as jokes. That is their purpose in the episode.

[starswirlthebearded]

Not entirely true. In that specific example, the reference and joke are not separate at all. The joke is that Discord is randomly in a box and gets noticed by Pinkie as a silly way to start the scene; I said even if you don't know the significance of the exclamation mark that appears the joke still works, which is true, but even if the exclamation mark wasn't there and it was just the box and him being noticed like that it would still be a a rather obvious allusion to Metal Gear Solid.

 

In the general sense, yes, referencing something in pop culture does not equate to a joke. Obviously. That was never my point. My point was that the references in this particular episode of My Little Pony do exist as jokes. That is their purpose in the episode.

To be entirely fair, they could have rewritten it without the reference, and for those that got the reference and enjoyed it, it would have been less funny, but it would have still worked as a joke. The point Dulset is making is that it was unnecessary. I disagree, it was necessary for, if not the joke factor, for the fun factor of those who get the references and the creator who put it in because they are basically giving a shout out to MGS. In fact, that is how it seems that the media is spinning it. Not as a nod to the adult fandom, but a nod to MGS itself.

[Wysteria]

I don't think any joke (or reference, for that matter) should be considered "necessary," that kind of ruins the point of it. Especially with consideration to MLP's style of humor. (Although, the argument could be made that Pinkie is "expected" to make jokes all the time) It's merely supposed to be fun for somebody.

[RarityDash]

To be entirely fair, they could have rewritten it without the reference, and for those that got the reference and enjoyed it, it would have been less funny, but it would have still worked as a joke. The point Dulset is making is that it was unnecessary. I disagree, it was necessary for, if not the joke factor, for the fun factor of those who get the references and the creator who put it in because they are basically giving a shout out to MGS. In fact, that is how it seems that the media is spinning it. Not as a nod to the adult fandom, but a nod to MGS itself.

 

Of course. It definitely could have been rewritten so as it wasn't a reference. I'm just saying that, as it is written now, the joke and the reference are not really very separate things in this instance.

[DulsetTarn]

I don't think any joke (or reference, for that matter) should be considered "necessary," that kind of ruins the point of it. Especially with consideration to MLP's style of humor. (Although, the argument could be made that Pinkie is "expected" to make jokes all the time) It's merely supposed to be fun for somebody.

Hear hear!

[QuickLime]

I think this whole debate should cease because when condescending  remarks like "You should lay down buddy" are being said it's  a sign things are being taken too seriously and should probably be dropped~

[Cadabra]

Do people really dislike pop culture references? I find them amusing given the spirit of the show. FIM is comedy first and foremost, I would call it fantasy-comedy-adventure, but it definitely doesn't take itself too seriously most of the time. Sure there are serious stories and serious themes, but even they are interspaced with humor, that is just part of the program.

I see the pop-culture stuff as the animators and writers getting to be creative, which is a good thing; don't want them working on a show that is a boring drag to produce.

Also Treehugger, you are such a subversive pothead.

It's something that the parents can get a kick out of while watching it with their kids. Lauren Foust wanted that level of enjoyment for the parents so that it wouldn't feel like a chore to them. Seeing this kind of thing just makes me think that this same philosophy is being kept alive.

[Tymiko]

I really liked how they showed Discord's personal emotions this time. This episode made me realize how much of a side character he'd been in other episodes. In most others, he just seems to like to 'troll' people and is rarely depicted getting annoyed or angry himself unless he's just pretending. This one he pretty much threw a tantrum (both privately and in front of others). It was pretty cute how Celestia enjoyed his antics and how he also really genuinely expressed his value of his and Fluttershy's friendship. One of my favorite parts was when he told Tree Hugger that they 'liked each other' and that he was rather 'lukewarm about cake', suggesting that the cakes they got weren't what he enjoyed most about that trip.

 

On the other hand, I was really disappointed with how they handled the Smooze. This G4 version was cute, but they made virtually no reference to his G1 counterpart. I felt like they could have at least made him purple and hoped for a reference to his song, but didn't really expect it. What most annoyed me, though, was that getting his goo on ponies had no affect on them (besides them being grossed out) whereas the original Smooze made everyone it touched become sullen, pessimistic, bitter, and hopeless. I thought that might have been an interesting dynamic to add. Not to mention, where did the 'being attracted to shiny things and wanting to eat them all' aspect come from? That seemed kinda random to me. It almost seemed like the only things they took from the original Smooze was its name and gooeyness. In that case, why not just make their own character? Were they trying to appeal to G1 fans, because if so, I don't think what they did is the way to go about it.

 

And finally, once again, I was disappointed in Fluttershy's reaction to Discord's acting out. How could she expect him to know what it was like to have a friend he could discuss chaos theories to when he never had any such thing? Regardless of how he somehow understood such a hypothetical situation, it didn't change the fact that he still only had Fluttershy as a friend at the end. I suppose there was the Smooze, but I don't think I'd count that thing since it hardly seemed to have a personality of its own. Discord was hurt and upset and Fluttershy hadn't even seemed to acknowledge her own shortcomings in this episode, such as simply assuming Celestia had sent him an invitation. (Shame Discord never thanked Celestia for that either, but what can you do?)

 

I still think Fluttershy should have been a great deal more understanding and patient with Discord. Kinda boggled me that he was so understanding about his errors all of a sudden, just like he kinda corrected himself during the episode when he became 'reformed'. I don't feel Fluttershy did enough on her part to apologize for making Discord feel abandoned or addressing how she didn't consider Tree Hugger any better a friend than Discord. All she stated was that they were not not friends, and that just felt...weak.

[Hawkeye12]

Okay, first off, I have nocommenton the debate here. I'm having nothing to do with it, I just want to state my thoughts on the episode itself.

That aside.....

HOLY LUNA THIS WAS THE BEST EPISODE

*clears throat* Sorry, got fangirly there...

So maybe I'm biased because I'm a huge Discord fan, but dang, this episode was great. The story, while I could see it as not being believable, made sense to me. Discord is obviously new to the friendship things, so it makes sense for him to overreact to the situation. And Flutters isn't perfect either, so her assuming that he had a ticket and bringing someone else is understandable. I mean, he is good with Celesyia, right? And he did get a ticket in the end. Also, Discord learning his lesson in the end adds a nice touch to it. But then again, I could be biased here...

Of course, it wasn't the story I liked the most for this one. It was EVERYTHING ELSE.

Seriously, how could you not love an episode with Maud cameos, AJ crying on the outside, alternate puppet dimensions, Pinkie fourth wall breaking, a hippie pony, and above all... DISCORD'S HOUSE. Just...awesome.

I loved this episode all around. Heck, I knew it would be great right from the beginning, seeing Doscord and Flutters have their Tuesday Tea. It made me smile.

Now, to complete my catch up with the season... Griffon episode time!

First Discord and now griffons, this is getting better and better!

[DulsetTarn]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the conflict here was that Discord is new to friendship, so he doesn't quite understand how you can have more than one friend...?

 

But in addition to knowing that Fluttershy already has five other friends (seriously, what does Tree Hugger add to the problem that Twilight and co. don't?), he also considers Twilight a good friend himself.

 

Am I just totally misreading the conflict? Why is Treehugger such a problem where someone like Dash isn't?

[Tymiko]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the conflict here was that Discord is new to friendship, so he doesn't quite understand how you can have more than one friend...?

 

But in addition to knowing that Fluttershy already has five other friends (seriously, what does Tree Hugger add to the problem that Twilight and co. don't?), he also considers Twilight a good friend himself.

 

Am I just totally misreading the conflict? Why is Treehugger such a problem where someone like Dash isn't?

Yeah, it was strange. XP I think they meant more to make the conflict something like Discord felt Fluttershy liked Tree Hugger more than him as a new friend (like when he was jealous that Fluttershy laughed at her jokes just like she laughed at his). I'm assuming that because the title is 'Make New Friends But Keep Discord'. He already knew where he stood among the Mane Six, but since Tree Hugger was a new friend of Fluttershy's, he thought he might have been abandoned and considered second-rate after this shiny new friend.

 

Also, Tree Hugger didn't seem to understand Discord's problem with her. She wasn't phased by his clear hints to her that she was 'butting in' on their already-existing friendship. That annoyed Discord because neither she nor Fluttershy seemed to get his feelings until he snapped and threatened to throw her into another dimension.That's just my guess, though. I think they could have done more to make that clear.