Official Discussion Thread - S05E25-6 The Cutie Re-Mark

[LostSanity]

I'm going to edit it. One sec.

 

EDIT: I changed it. I hope that's better.

[Bramble Rose]

The point, LostSanity, is that you don't need to be so hostile.  Even your edit is extremely hostile.  Either say it and let us deal with it however, or assume we can't handle it, and don't say it.  But do NOT sit there and say it, and tell us off at the same time.

 

The problem isn't your opinion.  It's this:

With that said... since I'm not sure how others will take it... I'll put it in spoilers.

I suggest you don't read it. If you do... I'm not responsible. If you don't like it... then I suggest just ignoring it.

 

Don't tell us how to feel.  Don't justify your right to post something up.  Don't do anything that basically accuses us of being bad folks who're going to take offense.  You're insulting us.

[LostSanity]

Fixed. Again.

[Bramble Rose]

At least you're listening.    I can respect that, and good on ya.  Not many folks will sit and listen when folks tell them this sort of thing, so please take my compliments on your response to this.

 

However, the idea is:  Don't say "I don't know how others will take this."  Just... write it.  If you want to put it in spoilers, that's fine.  But you're still hedging about how you're scared of us - and not in a cute Fluttershy sort of way.   If you really feel the need to say something, then go ahead, put it in spoilers, and then after the spoilers you can put a fluttershy emoticon and a little 'if that's all right with you."  Inject some thematic humor into that self-doubt and paranoia, and it'll leave a much nicer feel for folks. 

[QuickLime]

Aye, throw your opinion out there, and don't assume people can't handle it, we're all big ponies here we can handle stuff

[Lux]

You didn't think that I pass on weighing in on such a Twilight-centric episode, did you? 

 

I have to say I was amazed and the lengths that this episode went through. So much story building! Favorite things in the spoiler: 

 

 

• Twilight episode! I admit that it's been a while since we've had a true Twilight centered episode. Typically Twilight is with a friend or all her friends, but not since Amending Fences we've seen her alone. I like these episodes as they help define Twilight as a pony rather than simply her place in a group. Which brings me to...
• Twilight being fallible. Why would I be excited about this? Well, characters need to have limits to what they can do, and what better way to do so than to present said character with a situation that tests their limits or rather gives the character a rude awakening of their limits. Here Twilight does not blast Starlight Glimmer with the help of her friends and rainbow powered magic. Instead her magic is seen as matched by Starlight's to the point that Twilight can only do one thing to stop the cycle: show the truth. Considering how Twilight loves to lecture, showing is a new approach for the Princess.
• Starlight Glimmer! She ranks up there with one of my favorite villains! She is matched in power with Twilight and whereas Twilight found friends Starlight rejected them out of fear of rejection.  
• Spike. On one hoof, I wasn't too keen on the fact that he was being ignored like usual, but I liked that he had a part in assisting Twilight through her journey.
• Boss Rush! (If you get the reference, that's something Capcom does in their games by bringing back the bosses you fought and having to face one after the other before then reaching the final boss) I admit I wish there was more time spent with Twilight facing Tirek and Discord, but I was pleased the way Sombra, Chrysalis and Nightmare Moon were portrayed. Each had their own unique spin on the world and how Twilight faced them. 
• Zecora! It's episodes like these that make me enjoy the rhyming zebra. We see her as a tough tribal leader who seems to understand time and is able to show Twilight the key to time. 
• Poor Rainbow Dash. That filly is going to need therapy after being manipulated by Starlight! 
• The ending. I actually liked it because in a great way to close the season out while leaving things open. Starlight gets the ability to learn friendship, bringing it to a full circle. Still, there is a potential that she could backslide. There are mysteries as to the extent of Starlight's magic and how she factors in on new episodes. She's sort of reformed, not like Discord but more of given the opportunity to change.

 

 

Great season ending, and I can't wait to see how season six will turn out. 

[Bramble Rose]

As far as Twilight vs. Starlight - I noticed that Twilight did very little in the way of dodging.  There were a few times when Starlight missed because Twilight was already on the move, but more often we saw Twilight just blocking Starlight's magic.  Meanwhile, Starlight never, ever blocked Twilight's magic - she was always dodging.  She was staying one step ahead of Twilight.  So for the most part, whether attacking or defending, Twilight was burning magic ... while Starlight tended to be much more conservative.  She didn't match Twilight strength-for-strength.  She just out-thought her.

[RegalSteel]

Yeah. I don't even know if I have anything to say on this one that hasn't been said. It was just thoroughly excellent. Exceeded both my expectations and any other finale for me.

 

Best part was the Sombra timeline, just for some of the imagery it had. Rainbow Dash was so cool and Pinkie and Maud... that was just epic. I really loved Zecora in the Chrysalis world too though.

 

Slightly conflicted on Starlight since I really think what she did in the Cutie Map is pretty unforgivable. Going to have to get used to this change for sure. I do like the idea of having a new character introduced to explore and develop though.

 

I'm on the same page with Starlight. I don't think I'm quite on the "whoo another friend character" bandwagon. I wish they had made her learn her lesson and then get sent off home to make new friends and start her own journey. Not become another clingers-on to the Princess of Friendship.

 

Besides, she'll never be as good a Twilightcopymadeintotheirowncharacter as Sunset 

 

My biggest issue is moving forward if she does stick around I don't honestly see what she brings to the group. Each of the others brings something unique and special to the group. Starlight is just Twilite^TM with a large focus on magic and little experience being a friend. Ve've been there and done that.

[Rosewind]

I think my best advice for sharing opinions is this: Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. If you don't like something, just say you don't like something and explain your reasons why. Don't worry about what other people think about your opinion (so long as you're not putting down someone else for having disagreeable or opposite opinion).

[Cadabra]

This makes me wonder if Starlight actually made the effort to keep in touch with her childhood friend, or if he was wisked away and that was that.

I loved the alternate realities. I found them to be the best part of the whole episode. My favorite one was the Sombra one. It gives him some much needed character development.

[ZephyrBurst]

The episode was fun and all and it ended well by having the show lay the groundwork for a new character, which the show really needs a new prominent character. I was, at first before watching the episode against the idea of Starlight having a 'reform' as she'd work really well as a recurring antagonist. However, she doesn't really need nor did she receive any reform, she just eventually gave in and saw that her messing with time was making Equestria as a whole, much worse. I was fine with the way it ended in that the season sets this up from the beginning and leads us there instead of it happening out of the blue. She was planned from the beginning to have a change of heart.

 

There were things that bothered me about the finale though, that being it wasted so much time with all those alternate universes. They didn't really add anything other than, for some reason, show another old villain. Some of them went on a bit too long, though the Sombra one was neat. The one with Zecora added something in that she explains to Twilight the doobaly-dos about time. I'd rather have had some of those alternate universes trimmed down to focus more on learning about Starlight Glimmer.

 

That said, I AM okay with it not focusing on her in that it really is a Twilight focused episode and the finale sets up season 6 to go more into Starlight. If that's the case, then awesome.

 

I found her reasoning for hating cutie marks to not be enough though. I get that her friend leaves because he was moved off to some magic school (or something) after his cutie mark appears, which is fine. I get that she gets crazy upset about that, but that's extremely irrational of her to do. It could be that she's just really unstable, which maybe we'll see more of in season 6. But I feel like something else between when her friend leaves and the season 5 opener had to have happened for her to end up that way.

 

I'm hoping that the finale really was setting her up to be a more prominent character from here on out as I do like her character. I liked her as an antagonist, as she was my favorite among all of them the cast had come across. Though seeing her in whatever role she plays later could be interesting.

 

I feel like the map in the season 5 opener led the cast to that village to essentially 'recruit' her, not just to stop her in what she had been doing in that village.

 

One thing I really liked, not just in this episode, but throughout the season how Starlight can be spotted in various scenes in the background, meaning she was spying and setting things up. She was never caught, and even in the finale, she purposely reveals herself. As in she had it all planned out that this was the right time to unveil everything. It says things about her character.

[Noedig]

The episode was fun and all and it ended well by having the show lay the groundwork for a new character, which the show really needs a new prominent character. I was, at first before watching the episode against the idea of Starlight having a 'reform' as she'd work really well as a recurring antagonist. However, she doesn't really need nor did she receive any reform, she just eventually gave in and saw that her messing with time was making Equestria as a whole, much worse. I was fine with the way it ended in that the season sets this up from the beginning and leads us there instead of it happening out of the blue. She was planned from the beginning to have a change of heart.

 

What I liked from this was that they couldn't use the power of the Elements of Harmony, it would've been futile.

If they ever did use it in this finale, it would've been stale and weak, or repetitive.

I liked that Starlight chose to stop, and tried to change for the better, because Twilight and her (parallel reality) friends using the Elements of Harmony isn't the way to do it, it'd make less sense than what really happened.

Friends that have been made after being hit by the Elements of Harmony become somewhat major characters, they are Nightmare Moon, who then turned back to Princess Luna, and Discord.

Unlike Tirek. For me, he is the only villain that made sense to use the Elements of Harmony against and NEVER be friends with, because he's willingly an enemy to everyone and truly desires no friend.

Well of course, unless he somehow tried to make friends in some future season, I'd be confused about this character's motives then...

[Cadabra]

I recently rewatched this episode, and noticed something. I noticed this the first go around, but now I realize what it is: Sombra's animation looks out of place.

Take a look at his movement and coloration. He looks slightly brighter, his walk cycle looks a little off, and the wind picking up his cloak hits nothing else around him (ie: the plumes on top of those awesome helmets.) He fits better in the battle scene, but looks pasted in the pre-battle scene.

Despite this criticism, I still find Sombra's universe to be the best alternate universe.

[NellieMLPFan]

UMGAAAWWWWDD

[Lux]

I recently rewatched this episode, and noticed something. I noticed this the first go around, but now I realize what it is: Sombra's animation looks out of place.

Take a look at his movement and coloration. He looks slightly brighter, his walk cycle looks a little off, and the wind picking up his cloak hits nothing else around him (ie: the plumes on top of those awesome helmets.) He fits better in the battle scene, but looks pasted in the pre-battle scene.

Despite this criticism, I still find Sombra's universe to be the best alternate universe.

 

What they did was reuse the scene from the episode The Crystal Empire 1 where Celestia tells Twilight about Sombra. The scene of Sombra standing there with the ponies shackled in a line was from Season 3 until the scene where Sombra gives the ponies those enchanted helmets which is new animation. 

[QuickLime]

I think honestly Twilight handled Starlight the BEST way possible, think on it, this unicorn can travel through time, fly with  her levitation spell, teleport with ease, freeze ponies in crystal ect.

You cannot beat  that kind of pony into submission, so Twilight did the best thing you can do when you have an (overpowered) enemy.

The fastest way to get rid of an enemy is to make them a friend. (Or drop a rock on them but Yeah FRIENDSHIP is magic, not "ROCKS are Magic"-sad Limestone face-)

[Rosewind]

You're right about the Sombra thing. That's pretty lazy. But I guess that fits the overall design of the character. They could replace him with a roasted chicken wearing a tutu and he'd have the same amount of gravitas as any other villain plot device.

[LostSanity]

You guys really don't seem to understand how worried about this I am.

I seriously don't want to see Starlight Glimmer EVER AGAIN.

There's a chance I might quit the fandom and the show if she does. This is different from the Alicorn Twilight situation. I admitted I overreacted to that. But... this is just too different.

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to like her. AT ALL. EVER.

I don't want to see her in S6. Or the movie. Or in the show EVER AGAIN.

I want to continue to watch the show and to be a brony... but... if she shows up... I'm just concerned that I won't be able to.

 

[Dubstep]

You guys really don't seem to understand how worried about this I am.

I seriously don't want to see Starlight Glimmer EVER AGAIN.

There's a chance I might quit the fandom and the show if she does. This is different from the Alicorn Twilight situation. I admitted I overreacted to that. But... this is just too different.

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to like her. AT ALL. EVER.

I don't want to see her in S6. Or the movie. Or in the show EVER AGAIN.

I want to continue to watch the show and to be a brony... but... if she shows up... I'm just concerned that I won't be able to.

 

There are worse things that could happen to the fandom. I mean honestly, I'm not gonna lie, freaking out this bad over there being a change in the status quo makes you sound a bit like a raving madman. The most likely thing that will happen is Starlight will be to Twilight what Discord is to Fluttershy. You'll get her for and episode or two in a season, maybe a short guest appearance in an unrelated episode/Opener or Closer, and not have to see her much again. You could skip episodes with her in it. I get not liking a character, that's totally and absolutely fine, but to say 'I may quit the fandom if this ONE character ever shows up again.' is completely asinine, and if that's the kind of attitude you have about it, maybe it's NOT the fandom for you.

Do I feel like they could have given her more of an established backstory? Yes. Do I feel the episodes could have been executed some better? Certainly. But to just outright and utterly hate a character, to despise one so much as to quit watching a show entirely because of them. It makes me think of a four year old who's like "No! I don't like tomatoes! That burger had tomatoes on it, I'm never eating burgers again!" even though they could easily take the tomato off. All you have to do is not watch the episodes she's in if you don't like her.

[QuickLime]

You guys really don't seem to understand how worried about this I am.

I seriously don't want to see Starlight Glimmer EVER AGAIN.

There's a chance I might quit the fandom and the show if she does. This is different from the Alicorn Twilight situation. I admitted I overreacted to that. But... this is just too different.

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to like her. AT ALL. EVER.

I don't want to see her in S6. Or the movie. Or in the show EVER AGAIN.

I want to continue to watch the show and to be a brony... but... if she shows up... I'm just concerned that I won't be able to.

 

Calm down, it's just pastel horses, no need to have a coronary about it, calm down.

[Cadabra]

There are worse things that could happen to the fandom. I mean honestly, I'm not gonna lie, freaking out this bad over there being a change in the status quo makes you sound a bit like a raving madman. The most likely thing that will happen is Starlight will be to Twilight what Discord is to Fluttershy. You'll get her for and episode or two in a season, maybe a short guest appearance in an unrelated episode/Opener or Closer, and not have to see her much again. You could skip episodes with her in it. I get not liking a character, that's totally and absolutely fine, but to say 'I may quit the fandom if this ONE character ever shows up again.' is completely asinine, and if that's the kind of attitude you have about it, maybe it's NOT the fandom for you.

Do I feel like they could have given her more of an established backstory? Yes. Do I feel the episodes could have been executed some better? Certainly. But to just outright and utterly hate a character, to despise one so much as to quit watching a show entirely because of them. It makes me think of a four year old who's like "No! I don't like tomatoes! That burger had tomatoes on it, I'm never eating burgers again!" even though they could easily take the tomato off. All you have to do is not watch the episodes she's in if you don't like her.

While I do agree with you to a point, I will admit that there are characters I'm not fond of or have mixed feelings about that I do want to see again just to see if they can become better characters. It worked for Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash (two characters I thought I would not like) so I might be surprised by other characters.

As a further example, I want to look at characters like Trixie, Gilda, Coco, Maud, Trenderhoof, Breburn, and so on. You either love them or hate them for various reasons, but seeing them again can breath new life into their character. I do like Coco, Trixie, and Breburn, but found their second appearances could have made for more likable appearances. I'm middle of the road with Gilda and Maud, but seeing them again has me curious to see them developed further. I find Trenderhoof a pretensions git, but I would like to see a personality like his interact with one like Maud. To be honest, I ship Trenderhoof and Maud for that very reason, and would love to see a Hearthswarming story with her bringing him home to meet all the family, Apples included.

[MidnightMask]

The ending felt like it was slightly off note, the dialog between Twilight and Starlight a little weak, but I think the overall thrust of the episode was really good, because it showed the power of friendship being something more than a mystical nuke to take down the badguy, and it does have a come full circle theme.

As time changes, we get to see not only how bad off things in Equestria are without the mane 6, but how bad they get when ponies must resort to violent force rather than the magics of love, understanding, tolerance, hope, the positive emotional spectrum. The ponies in these alternate universes aren't just suffering, but they are weaker reflections of who they should be.

Rainbow Dash has a bionic wing, not just because war is hell, but because the ponies no longer have friendship and kindness as their strength.

Rarity is no longer designing for the joy of others, but simply for survival, her own talent now a dull and brutish thing.

In the changeling universe, the Pony's are paranoid, suspicious, and violent.

In all these universes, Elements of Harmony or not, they've lost the elements of the magic of friendship.

Twilight Sparkle, not being the Princess of the Sun, or the Moon, or of Crystals, but of Friendship, shows where her real power lies by making a friend, not blasting a foe. Are they too forgiving of Starlight Glimmer? Maybe, but they forgave Discord and Luna, and will likely forgive others over time, because this is the fundamental force their universe is based on.

I hate to say we might see a lot more of Starlight, but I have the feeling we will. Twilight's initial forays of friendship were just about reaching out and opening up; Starlight's will have to be about forgiveness. Accepted back into her village or not, there have to be hard feelings waiting for her there, and seeing somepony trying to regain the trust and support of people she did a terrible disservice (thinking they were doing the right thing mind you), seems as if it would be a rather epic and interesting arc.

[SunsetSombra]

I don't want to see her in S6. Or the movie. Or in the show EVER AGAIN.

I want to continue to watch the show and to be a brony... but... if she shows up... I'm just concerned that I won't be able to.

 

She has a book and merchandise coming - if that's not a sure bet to say that she's coming back, then I don't know what is...either learn to let go of this anger, or step away from the fandom. 

That is ultimately the choice ahead of you, because she WILL likely return...she's Twi's STUDENT, which inevitably means she will be seen again in some capacity.

[starswirlthebearded]

You guys really don't seem to understand how worried about this I am.

I seriously don't want to see Starlight Glimmer EVER AGAIN.

There's a chance I might quit the fandom and the show if she does. This is different from the Alicorn Twilight situation. I admitted I overreacted to that. But... this is just too different.

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to like her. AT ALL. EVER.

I don't want to see her in S6. Or the movie. Or in the show EVER AGAIN.

I want to continue to watch the show and to be a brony... but... if she shows up... I'm just concerned that I won't be able to.

 

[Bellosh]

They could replace [sombra] with a roasted chicken wearing a tutu and he'd have the same amount of gravitas as any other villain plot device.

 

-cries in a corner-