Male characters.

[VGAddict]

Why is it that most of the male characters in this show are either villains, assholes, or one-dimensional? I'm not saying they have to be as developed as the females, but more that aren't the three categories I just listed would be nice.

[TheFinestSorcerer]

Because... because! Uhm! *whispers briefly into a handmike strapped to his cloak* >_> Now We Wait!

[CoffeeLand]

Probably because this was a TV show is originally made for young girls and there wouldn't be much connection or appeal in a sophisticated male character. If you were a young girl watching the show then you'd be more likely to pay attention to the pretty, young, female leads instead of the thought out male characters.

[Rosewind]

I disagree. While there is a definite female dominance in Equestria, not all males share these roles you seem to be describing. Shining Armor, Braeburn and Big Mac immediately come to mind. Carrot Cake, Spike (your favorite), and a host of others. Yes, some are antagonists, one-shot characters for the story, or even just distant background characters, but I don't really see a binary generalization surrounding male characters in this cartoon.

[VGAddict]

I disagree. While there is a definite female dominance in Equestria, not all males share these roles you seem to be describing. Shining Armor, Braeburn and Big Mac immediately come to mind. Carrot Cake, Spike (your favorite), and a host of others. Yes, some are antagonists, one-shot characters for the story, or even just distant background characters, but I don't really see a binary generalization surrounding male characters in this cartoon.

 

But they're not nearly as developed as the females.

[QuickLime]

But they're not nearly as developed as the females.

It's a show for little girls, ofcourse they aren't Johnny Test is aimed at Boys, and the female characters are one dimensional and shallow too, I don't see you complaining about the reverse.

Other shows with similar issues (but reverse)

Dexter's Lab

Edd, Ed,and Eddie

Adventure Time

The Adventures of Gumball

Transformers

 

TMNT

It goes on and on and on and on and ooooonnn

STREEET LIIIGHTS! PEOPLE! UP AND DOWN THE BOULEVARD! THEY'RE SHADDDOWS, CHASING THE NIIIIIIIGHT

DOOOON'T STOP BELIIIIEVING!

[TheFinestSorcerer]

Not that I mean this retort aggressively but.. Queen of Ravens did you ever watch any of those shows?

 

I can't deny Transformers or TMNT(Though I guess it depends on which one you choose to observe) But most of those shows actually did have rather well flushed out(albeit limited) female characters. Even if yes the shows were targeted for males. x3 Not pertaining to the original topic just defending my childhood through careful analysis.

 

Ed Edd and Eddy was actually a 4th wall breaking satire on the trivial lives of adolescent kids in suburbia. But while the show did focus on the Nerd, the Idiot and the Cheapscape Trio we did actually have SEVERAL episodes surrounding their interactions with Sarah, Naz and the Kanker Sisters.. Sure they come off as one-dimensional. Sarah's violent, Naz is the hot one(she got the least development) and the Kanker's are hormonal rapists(lol)

 

Within a few hundred episodes I think for a show based on boys from the 90's it actually did a bangup job at making the Kankers interesting and giving a character like Sarah some rather interesting sidequests and interactions. We don't see them JUST be lunatics. We see them cry, we see them do their hobbies, act their age, and of course... be antagonists xD

 

 

I don't really count Adventures of Gumball since.. well that show in general is more modern and like MLP doesn't conform to the original standards of a girl or boys show.. otherwise we wouldn't have guys like ME liking a show for little girls. It's charming, it has laughs ... but it has WAY more female characters than the average boy show. The ratio is more level than MLP even.

 

Dexter Lab was pretty solid boys show obviously. DeeDee served as an obstacle less so then a sister. But at the same time the show had limited characters and thus... DeeDee was included in almost(If not) EVERY episode. Making her the secondary supporting role rather than JUST a background character.

 

Adventure Time is uhm.... Well actuslly now that I think of it.. counting recurring character I think there might be MORE female 'leads' in that show than male. But I hate Adventure Time and won't say anything else about it. STRUNG UP AND BURNED I SAY!~

 

 

But I do think MLP has a fine number of good male characters. Some are antagonists and a LOT of the background ponies are just that... 1 dimensional xD so.. eh~ I neither support nor hinder this argument.

[QuickLime]

I watched plenty of them, ocassionally having a girl be in the show and do things is  not the same thing as giving them development, the point is MOST ANIMATIONS HAVE A HEAVILY MALE CAST  WITH THE FOCUS ON THEM.

I never said these shows were bad, they are a HUGE huge part of my childhood, but you cannot deny that their focus was for a male audience.

 

 

 

 

Adventure Time is uhm.... Well actuslly now that I think of it.. counting recurring character I think there might be MORE female 'leads' in that show than male. But I hate Adventure Time and won't say anything else about it. STRUNG UP AND BURNED I SAY!~

Them having"Female leads" Isn't the point, most female Leads have an episode or two once in a while, then they drop off and are never REALLY seen again, Adventure Time has a pretty dominant male cast(and when a female does get development sans maybe Marceline) it's usually sort of..shallow

Breakfast Princess is rude and classless, LSP is tacktless and crude, PBG is rather evil, ect

 

[Lyipheoryia]

If it was the other way around-would you complain?  I think the world has enough TV shows that illustrate females as 1D, flat characters.  MLP is one of the few that actually don't classify females into clique of romantic, sexy, hot, for love interest, for purposes of seeming stupid, and plenty of others.  And I think that's another reason why fans like MLP.

[VGAddict]

If it was the other way around-would you complain?  I think the world has enough TV shows that illustrate females as 1D, flat characters.  MLP is one of the few that actually don't classify females into clique of romantic, sexy, hot, for love interest, for purposes of seeming stupid, and plenty of others.  And I think that's another reason why fans like MLP.

 

But wouldn't it be nice if males and females were equally developed?

[QuickLime]

If it was the other way around-would you complain?  I think the world has enough TV shows that illustrate females as 1D, flat characters.  MLP is one of the few that actually don't classify females into clique of romantic, sexy, hot, for love interest, for purposes of seeming stupid, and plenty of others.  And I think that's another reason why fans like MLP.

Exactly what I just said:D

 

But wouldn't it be nice if males and females were equally developed?

 

Then lobby for ALL shows to do it, don't just point at MLP and say "WHY U NO DEVELOP UR  MALE CHARACTERS!?" While other shows sit on their pile of male characters that get tons of everything and female characters get written off.

Not every show can be Steven Universe dang it DX

[Lyipheoryia]

But wouldn't it be nice if males and females were equally developed?

It would be.  But why don't you make many threads complaining about how females in other TV shows aren't developed.  I think it would be very nice-but I don't see the point of your statement in saying that considering your lack of threads based on other TV shows and their unequal distribution of roles by gender.

[VGAddict]

It would be.  But why don't you make many threads complaining about how females in other TV shows aren't developed.  I think it would be very nice-but I don't see the point of your statement in saying that considering your lack of threads based on other TV shows and their unequal distribution of roles by gender.

 

I don't watch that many cartoons other than MLP.

[QuickLime]

I don't watch that many cartoons other than MLP.

 

 

...You give me headaches sir..

[VGAddict]

...You give me headaches sir..

It's the truth.

[Lyipheoryia]

I don't watch that many cartoons other than MLP.

Then why are you making this thread?  Why are you complaining if you don't have other cartoons to compare it to? WHY? 

[QuickLime]

It's the truth.

It really weakens your topic, you are standing outside of the girl's video game store, demanding to know why they don't have a bunch of games for guys, while there's 40+ "Boy game shops" behind you.

[Lyipheoryia]

It really weakens your topic, you are standing outside of the girl's video game store, demanding to know why they don't have a bunch of games for guys, while there's 40+ "Boy game shops" behind you.

Ditto that.  Just-WHY, VGAddict, WHY don't you just turn around and look?

[TheFinestSorcerer]

It totally just wanted to talk about the kids shows I watch x3 But it definitely isn't much of an argument to be made over all. I like Pony shows! And frankly.. if there were more Male characters developed then we wouldn't have much room for our OCs! .... xD

[QuickLime]

It totally just wanted to talk about the kids shows I watch x3 But it definitely isn't much of an argument to be made over all. I like Pony shows! And frankly.. if there were more Male characters developed then we wouldn't have much room for our OCs! .... xD

Dude if you ever just wanna nostalgic ramble about old kids cartoon and take them seriously I'm always up for that No worries.

[DerpRavener]

Hmm, deja vu.

 

First off, I agree with Rose: the claim that there are no well-rounded male characters I would call decidedly untrue.

For that matter, the description of 'not an asshole or one dimensional' ends up being potentially a very narrow one, given how subjective those terms can be.  An argument can even be made for several of the mane 6, that they don't live up to that standard.

 

Even if we pretend it's true though, I think it comes down to this: FiM is a show targeted at young girls, and made primarily with them in mind.  Most characters in general will be female, and that goes double for main or viewpoint characters.  There are more female villains than there are male, I think: Chrysalis, Nightmare Moon, Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer, and the sirens, versus Tirek, Discord, and Sombra.  (Note: I know I've left out a lot here, for efficiency's sake I decided to focus on what I consider villains rather than just antagonists.  The list would get too long, and I don't remember all of them.)  So this is not, as the starting post seems to imply, about a stance against males.  It's just a factor of the general population of the show.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

[QuickLime]

Trixie isn't a villain, she's a minor antagonist

[DerpRavener]

For most part I agree with that, I mostly included her on the list because there was that time she took over Ponyville.  She met my definition of intent and ability to cause immediate harm over a relatively wide area.

I think it still works without her, though, so I'll remove her from it.

[Rosewind]

I think the scope of this discussion goes well beyond FiM as a cartoon. Lauren Faust herself originally designed this show to be a showcase of good female characterization in a cartoon, right up until she left the project to pursue other things. Looking at the last fifty plus years of animation, females have not been represented well. It's arguable to say that the males in this show haven't been represented as well as they could be, but the argument that they're one-dimensional is hardly anything but.

 

Brotherhood Social immediately sticks out to me. It was a story about a big brother willing to do anything for his little sister. It might not seem like much, but it nailed a pretty big issue on the head. Siblings might not sometimes have a lot in common, but they still love each other.

 

I like and appreciate a cartoon that can balance its characters. SWAT Kats immediately comes to mind for me. The main female protagonist was Callie Briggs. She's a highly successful businesswoman, smart, and added a lot to the story. A counterpoint to her was Felina, Commander Feral's niece, who happened to be masculine in her own way and was a skilled pilot in the Enforcers. Both are female characters represented in different ways in a heavily male character show, and neither of them were thrust into traditional damsel roles:

 

Callie:

 

 

Felina:

 

Maybe one day we'll see a cartoon out there that is perfectly balanced and respectful of changing social norms, but for now I would give FiM its due respect for complex and rich female characters, even in spite of a weaker male representation.

[QuickLime]

I think the scope of this discussion goes well beyond FiM as a cartoon. Lauren Faust herself originally designed this show to be a showcase of good female characterization in a cartoon, right up until she left the project to pursue other things. Looking at the last fifty plus years of animation, females have not been represented well. It's arguable to say that the males in this show haven't been represented as well as they could be, but the argument that they're one-dimensional is hardly anything but.

 

Brotherhood Social immediately sticks out to me. It was a story about a big brother willing to do anything for his little sister. It might not seem like much, but it nailed a pretty big issue on the head. Siblings might not sometimes have a lot in common, but they still love each other.

 

I like and appreciate a cartoon that can balance its characters. SWAT Kats immediately comes to mind for me. The main female protagonist was Callie Briggs. She's a highly successful businesswoman, smart, and added a lot to the story. A counterpoint to her was Felina, Commander Feral's niece, who happened to be masculine in her own way and was a skilled pilot in the Enforcers. Both are female characters represented in different ways in a heavily male character show, and neither of them were thrust into traditional damsel roles:

 

Callie:

 

 

Felina:

 

Maybe one day we'll see a cartoon out there that is perfectly balanced and respectful of changing social norms, but for now I would give FiM its due respect for complex and rich female characters, even in spite of a weaker male representation.

Dat artwork difference tho XD