OOC Chatter forum- Should this section really require "roleplayer" status?

[Frain Breeze]

I noticed that the "OOC chatter" forum is only open to members with "roleplayer" status. The forum descriptions make it sound like it's just for planning out a RP thread you want to do or for organizing one that's already in progress. If that's all it was, it would make sense not to allow non-RP members to post there. You can't join a RP without an approved character, duh.

However, I also see stuff in that forum that doesn't intrinsically require you to have a character in order to have input. Area ideas, world map discussion, and the "mary sue checklist," for example, all seem like stuff that anyone could give valid input to, or at least ask relevant questions. I don't quite see the point of having to wait to have a character approved in order to talk in that forum. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Edit: Or alternatively, do threads like those belong someplace else?

[Loopy Legend]

I think you get roleplayer stsus when you get a character approved, or when you reach x amount of posts. But if I'm right when I say you get it after you get a approved chatacter, then it makes perfect sense, as once you got a character you can then plan an Rp.

[Dessa]

I agree, and I'd be curious to hear what the reasoning is for it, or if it's just one of those things that's on the list but hasn't been gotten to yet.

Some images are like this too. The old Equestria maps were, and if there's any other images linked to roleplay like they were, they might be unviewable to peeps with non-RP status.

[Skye]

You get roleplayer status only after you have successfully gotten a character that can be used for Roleplay. This is the only way you can get RP status. The OOC area is part of the RP, even if some topics aren't really totally for the RP, the OOC area itself is for that purpose. It really shouldn't be being used for any other purpose.

[Dessa]

Suppose, for instance, that you were new and scanning the OOC forum. You see there's a big family, the Golucky family, that you want your OC to be a part of, but you wanted to ask a question in the thread.

Or you see the Trans-Equestrian Railroad thread, and you want in, but you wanna talk it over with people already involved and plan out your role in the whole thing.

Or even, going back to the anti-marysue checklist (if that thread doesnt belong in OOC, what is the appropriate location to post it?), you're new at making characters and you have questions about how to avoid being an annoying mary-sue player.

On the flip side, what is the disadvantage to allowing non-roleplayers to post here? That they might start a thread here that doesn't belong in the subforum, creating extra work for mods? Possibly, but with it being on the bottom of the page, after every other subforum, I would imagine that the extra work created would be minimal.

In short, it seems like the potential benefits of allowing non-RPers (including people who intend to, but are not yet approved for, RP) outweigh the potential costs.

[Manestream]

I see some valid points here that i'll take into consideration; but let me go over the original reasoning so everyone knows whats going on in my head xD

OOC chatter was to be able to communicate with other RPers about potential ideas, or current running threads. Since a user cant RP until they have an OC, there was no real significant reason, or interest, to allow them to post in the OOC section.

If a user was interested in creating an OC to join a thread, or particular storyline, or 'family' of ponies, they would PM the individual(s) involved and talk to them in that way rather than jumping right into the OOC thread and saying "hey guys i want in!" It seemed more personal and organized to me; it at least allowed for a little privacy regarding that.

However, it has potential benefits; but it comes with a few cons as well. It hasnt seemed to be something that was terribly desired or missed, so it hasnt yet been considered.

As far as a place to discuss RP elements and world building- we have a lore forum for that now- that would be the perfect place to talk about those subjects. The OOC thread, even if opened up to the public, should only be about the content of a particular RP, or concept for an RP to be discussed with other RP'ers- the staff wont be going through those threads often looking for suggestions.

[Hippo]

I would say that allowing anyone, even non-RPers, to post in the OOC section would allow for some more creative development across different points of view. It may even get a non-RPer a hands-on experience with what entails a RP thread on this site. However, the OOC needs to be sacred, since it is essentially a behind the scenes of what is actually happening in the RP sections.

The point of the RPer status is to give creative credit where credit is due. If someone has made the effort in creating a character and follows the general guidelines for the scrutiny that is the application process, then it permits them to be apart of other creative discussions.

I think it's important, too, to have a separation between members who visit the site everyday and the more casual members who just love plain pony content. Every member should have the freedom to speak their mind on every subject, but the RP sections are limited to RP members, not because they are 'better', but because they have a common interest in mind. Am I correct in this thinking?

[Dessa]

I would say that allowing anyone, even non-RPers, to post in the OOC section would allow for some more creative development across different points of view. It may even get a non-RPer a hands-on experience with what entails a RP thread on this site.

However, the OOC needs to be sacred, since it is essentially a behind the scenes of what is actually happening in the RP sections.

How can we expect potential Roleplayers to know what RPs are about if we shut them out of "what's really happening?" If the OOC subforum is truly sacred, I'd say that it was MORE important for potential RP members to feel a part of. I fail to see how the occasional post by a non RPer would corrupt things.

The point of the RPer status is to give creative credit where credit is due. If someone has made the effort in creating a character and follows the general guidelines for the scrutiny that is the application process, then it permits them to be apart of other creative discussions.

The point of the status is to ensure quality control over the content of the roleplay, and to ensure that players understand the community standards and policies before being allowed to roleplay. The OOC subforum, is one place where community standards are discussed. I'd rather encourage pre-RPers to spend some time interacting with the roleplayer community before committing to an application.

I don't believe that being a part of creative discussions should require a special badge. There are many creative people, and many of them, for whatever reason, might not wish to apply. Should we really exclude people with great ideas over something as abstract as sanctity or privilege?

I think it's important, too, to have a separation between members who visit the site everyday and the more casual members who just love plain pony content.

I'm one of the older members here, and I spent a lot of time here (still do) because I love the community. As an extension of this, I want the community to flourish. I didn't begin RP here until perhaps 1 or 2 months ago, but my passion was no less then than it is now.

What finally changed my mind and made me want to RP here was the access to the numerous OOC discussions I'd come across in chat. I'd hear about RPs, and get to know the characters. I developed a curiosity, and I'm not sure that I would have if I was forbidden from having interactive discussions with roleplayers about their experiences.

Far from corrupting the roleplay community, I think opening OOC discussions to prospective roleplayers could improve it.

[Hippo]

How can we expect potential Roleplayers to know what RPs are about if we shut them out of "what's really happening?" If the OOC subforum is truly sacred, I'd say that it was MORE important for potential RP members to feel a part of. I fail to see how the occasional post by a non RPer would corrupt things.

I don't think non-RPers feel shut in. And Before I became a RPer after on month of being on this forum, I had a pretty good idea of what to expect by doing some reading on apps and threads in the sections.

The point of the status is to ensure quality control over the content of the roleplay, and to ensure that players understand the community standards and policies before being allowed to roleplay. The OOC subforum, is one place where community standards are discussed. I'd rather encourage pre-RPers to spend some time interacting with the roleplayer community before committing to an application.

I don't believe that being a part of creative discussions should require a special badge. There are many creative people, and many of them, for whatever reason, might not wish to apply. Should we really exclude people with great ideas over something as abstract as sanctity or privilege?

Like I had said, it doesn't make me better than others by being a role play member. But there's a reason why we have those special privileges in the first place. I'd say that I became a RPer on this site for the simple fact that it was exclusive to people who took their characters seriously within the rules of the RP here. The Free-for-all forum was created for the more casual role player. There's nothing keeping people from posting there besides the lack of quality that might show up there. If we were to make the RP members group with less exclusivity, I don't think I would want to be apart of this site anymore.

I'm one of the older members here, and I spent a lot of time here (still do) because I love the community. As an extension of this, I want the community to flourish. I didn't begin RP here until perhaps 1 or 2 months ago, but my passion was no less then than it is now.

What finally changed my mind and made me want to RP here was the access to the numerous OOC discussions I'd come across in chat. I'd hear about RPs, and get to know the characters. I developed a curiosity, and I'm not sure that I would have if I was forbidden from having interactive discussions with roleplayers about their experiences.

Far from corrupting the roleplay community, I think opening OOC discussions to prospective roleplayers could improve it.

I still think that the OOC should be for RP memebers only. If someone creates a character just so they can chat it up in a OOC thread, I feel that they are missing the point. The OOC thread is only one of many ways to communicate with other RPers about events and ideas in the RP threads. But it is not limited to this. I would say that topics of world-building and canon-fanon discussions can cause some non-RP memebers to perk their ears up a little, and arouse their interest. But even if they have something they want to suggest, we'd be niave to think that their RP status and their time being a member on the board would not be considered when their suggest is read. And not to be too persnickety, but I don't know how I feel about someone who doesn't apply themselves in the RP to affect the world and behind the scenes of what I am participating in. I think, Dessa, that you are a special case when it comes to this. Please take this as a compliment. Most users either fall in or out of the RP circle, and if time allows their curiosity to look into RP after a long time of not doing so, I don't think not being able to post in a OOC discussion thread keeps people from seeing what 'all the fuss is about'.

I would like to point out that I do something a little differently than most, maybe. I don't spend too much time in the OOC threads. Some of my more involved RP threads have their own OOC thread via PM. For instance, I have a PM conversation with all of the users from My Apple Barn Contract RP, and it allows us to talk more in depth about the RP, and keep people accountable, including myself with keeping up to date and regulating posting cycles. No one except the people in this RP can discuss. But if someone wants to PM me for advice or a possible new character introduction for the thread, they certainly have the right to PM me about it. It also keeps the threads clean from those pesky OOC one-liners.

[Dessa]

For instance, I have a PM conversation with all of the users from My Apple Barn Contract RP, and it allows us to talk more in depth about the RP, and keep people accountable, including myself with keeping up to date and regulating posting cycles. No one except the people in this RP can discuss.

Well, you suggested an easy solution right there. If you really need to ensure that nopony outside the context of your RP comments on it, personal messages provide that capability.

If we were to make the RP members group with less exclusivity, I don't think I would want to be apart of this site anymore.

I'm not arguing that we should lower the threshold for RP membership, just that we should remove the requirement of RP membership for OOC discussion.

Perhaps I am a special case. If so, I wonder how many other special cases might be out there. You say that potential-RPers dont feel shut out of discussion here, but Frain Breeze above (who is pending RP approval, I believe) seems to express as much above, and with concrete examples about where s/he would like to comment.

You also seem concerned that allowing potential-roleplayers access to OOC discussion would somehow harm the RP. Could you explain how? I don't find it obvious.

Paint me a disaster scenario.

[Hippo]

I'll try to keep it short. I work at a hotel. We at the hotel don't always see each other because we work opposite shifts, so from time to time, we may have a meeting where everyone who works there can talk about issues and new developments. It would not make any sense, if we let someone who doesn't work there, or just recently turned in an application for employment to join the conversation. They will have little input for the group. If they really feel passionate about it, they can talk one-on-one with someone who is in charge of something at the establishment and then the proper steps to take that advice would go through. But a conversation about the situation itself should only involve the people in the situation. And staff, too.

[Frain Breeze]

You say that potential-RPers dont feel shut out of discussion here, but Frain Breeze above (who is pending RP approval, I believe) seems to express as much above, and with concrete examples about where s/he would like to comment.

I'm no longer pending approval, but yes, that is how I felt when I was still waiting. I think that letting new users give input on worldbuilding could help the site grow. Having it closed off from the start makes it seem like it's something only the "higher-ups" or long-time members are encouraged to participate in. I have a couple ideas I'd like to add to those threads, but I feel kinda nervous about contributing since I'm so new here.

[Kite]

It's a mighty intimidating discussion going on here, which I like, and most of the bases seem to be covered so if I reiterate what somepony else said as I throw my helmet in this discussion, well, sorry XD

I honestly can't see the harm in what a non-RP member might suggest in OOC-RP threads. If anything, I think having access to such a feature before applying a character would be a benefit, as it'll give new members the sense that the RPers aren't some elite super group; we're all just Canterlot-ians coming up with ideas and writing. Ideas, good and bad, old and new come from all sorts, so we shouldn't cut off any avenues where more might arrive.

It could be that non-RPers only have interesting ideas every 20, 15 or 5% of the time, but shutting them out could be seen as pretty intimidating, and would ensure that we'd never see those potential ideas 100% of the time. My 2 bits. XP

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Well, here's a little something I thought up about OOC and say, wanting to join a family of ponies. What if someone is very new to RP, and isn't very good at writing either. By going through the Application process, we help users to understand how we Roleplay here and what's expected of them.

Would you really want someone like that jumping into the Golucky topic? The Application process provides a buffer to those who lose interest in the site and/or Roleplay before they even start, and prevents events like this happening in the OOC:

Newbie: hai guys. so i'm goin to app to be ur dad k.

Experienced user: What?

Newbie: Here's my app, sorry is not very good yet. Maybeh you guys can comment and help since i will be part of ur fam.

Experienced user: You'll need to ask so-and-so if you can play that character.

Newbie: LOOK AT MY APP LOOK AT MY APP LOOK AT MY APP.

Experienced user: Hey, I talked to them for you, and they don't really like that relationship since they already have such-and-such planned. You can be part of the family, but you can't be that guy.

Newbie: wul i cant change it now y u no tell me sooner? u guys suck.

Because some newbie's like to jump the gun and try to push their ideas through the RP without even discussing it or being open for suggestion. It doesn't happen everywhere or with everyone, but I can see this happening with a new and possibly inexperienced user. Remember, we DO have kids on here (as young as 10, though probably at least 13-14), who aren't as always as mature as the older members.

As Manestream mentioned, you want to be part of the GoLucky family for your first OC? PM the people in that topic. Then you can discuss things behind the scenes first. I know of at least one person who got a character approved and started jumping into topics in an event without asking, and sometimes it was actually disruptive and not even constructive to the RP. Even with a character, they still weren't experience in Roleplaying etiquette.

If someone is having trouble with an Application idea, the IRC is always open. Maybe try apping for a Background Cast member, somepony already established. You don't need an OC to play a Cast character.

[Dessa]

I'm no longer pending approval, but yes, that is how I felt when I was still waiting. I think that letting new users give input on worldbuilding could help the site grow. Having it closed off from the start makes it seem like it's something only the "higher-ups" or long-time members are encouraged to participate in.

I've heard once or twice that one of the current goals among staff is to increase membership. Part of that is keeping members who have signed up to stick around. Any factor that might intimidate new members is worth some attention, so I'm glad this is being discussed whichever way it is settled.

[flutterscotch]

PM the people in that topic.

If someone is having trouble with an Application idea, the IRC is always open.

Exactly. Adding yet another place where new folks can track their questions and ideas might not be helpful, since there seem to be several places that are clear to us since we've been here what their purpose is, but might not be clear at first glance. Questions and Suggestions vs Lore vs OOC Mane Chatter vs OOC Free RP chatter. Then add in IRC, which has its fair share of blocks of time devoted to helping folks get their new OCs created (and quite often even has folks who have not read a single rule pertaining to OC creation in there asking questions). I've even seen RP questions in the Spam Stables! Compartmentalizing it further might make it more confusing.

Especially since in the examples presented (the Golucky family, existing RPs), the people involved in them might not necessarily reading OOC chatter regularly enough to respond fast enough; even if they are subscribed to the post sometimes notification fails.

Maybe a simple header change is in order, along the lines of "Don't have a character yet? Interested in joining an open thread or have an RP idea, join the chat or PM the person who started the thread."

[Manestream]

I'd like to also point out non-rper's arent 'shut out' from the OOC at all- they are able to view the threads and learn from them, they just arent able to participate in them. I should re-emphasize that the OOC is for planning and discussing RP threads, its not the place i'd like new users to be discussing Rp tactics- that belongs in the etiqutte thread and application forums where the helpstaff is geared- there is a reason all users of the board can comment on apps there, and also why we have specific places for users to ask questions- because i would like to bottleneck where those questions are being asked, so its easier for me to answer them.

All the ideas about it being a good place to educate new users sounds very good, but i'm not sure the OOC topic thread is where i'd want those efforts centered. I'm kinda on the fence about this one still.