Determinism: Name vs Cutie Mark

[CoderBrony]

My apologies to everypony if someone has discussed this before, but...

So, we all know that cutie-marks appear once a pony discovers their true calling in life. So Applejack got apples, and became an apple farmer. Silver Spoon and Diamond Tiara got, um, silver spoons and a diamond tiara, and became stuck up society bit--- um, fillies.

But they all had names that suggested (and in some cases matched) their cutie marks, well before they got them. And then you have ponies like Photo Finish. Unless she changed her name, she was born named Photo Finish. Maybe psychic Fluttershy was present at the birth and advised the parents on the name, but otherwise, why would you name a foal Photo Finish?! All the evidence suggests that your name usually predestines your cutie mark and future avocation.

Based on this, I'd expect Scootaloo is going to end up with a scooter on her flank, Applebloom with something apple-related, and only Sweetie Bell spared the crushing soul-death of Equestrian name determinism.

Opinions?

Coder

[Guest EoLPinkie]

Most names could go in a lot of directions with meaning! On the one hoof, Rarity could mean lots of things, so could other ponies' names! On the other hoof, you're so totally right! Creepy

[Angie Cakes]

well, applebloom could mean she creates things. kind of how an apple blooms or is created

sweetie bell will likely sing. bells create music.

EDIT: sweetie bell is a name that would also allow her to make sweets XD

another example is cheerilee is a school teacher. you don't directly think school teacher, but when you think about it, it makes sense.

as for names determining cutie marks, I'll wait until other people say stuff before I give input XD I've thought about it before, but the best explination I can think of is that, even in real life, you grow into your name

[Angie Cakes]

Most names could go in a lot of directions with meaning! On the one hoof, Rarity could mean lots of things, so could other ponies' names! On the other hoof, you're so totally right! Creepy

also, this

[MochaMocha]

Granny Smith's name must have been something else before.

Otherwise, she was always destined to be a granny, which is kinda weird...

Not to mention how awkward that would be when she was a filly. P:

So, if Granny Smith's original name was allowed to be changed, then I'm sure the names of other ponies could have also been subject to change.

[Astalakio]

I believe that... it's cartoon logic. Just one of those fantastic, inexplicable things that works simply because it's in a cartoon, and nopony questions it.

Alternatively, upon giving birth, all mares are blessed with temporary psychic abilties, and are able to take a quick peek into the future in order to know what to name their child, before losing said gift again.

Yeah, I'm gunna go with the first one.

[weesh]

This topic has certainly been hard for me to swallow.

Both the names and the cutie marks seem to railroad ponies.

Sure some of the names could be interpreted a couple of different ways, but that still is quite limiting.

[Guest EoLPinkie]

This topic has certainly been hard for me to swallow.

Both the names and the cutie marks seem to railroad ponies.

Sure some of the names could be interpreted a couple of different ways, but that still is quite limiting.

Silly filly, I knew you'd pop in here sooner or later! It's a smartie pants discussion after all.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I suspect there's a little bit of self fulfilling prophecy involved in special talents. I mean, nobody comes into being totally at random. They're raised by their parents and it stands to reason then that they might learn some of the things their parents think are important. The existence of ponies that have name-irrelevant cutie marks leads me to believe that while a parent's wishes may play a strong role in guiding a young filly or colt, they do not dictate their destiny.

Twilight Sparkle or Rarity could mean just about anything, so perhaps their parents wanted to leave their options open, while Applejack's family has a tradition of growing apples, so perhaps they named her in hopes that she would carry on that tradition.

It is hinted that Applebloom's special talent is carpentry, building things, or repair work rather than doing apple related stuff.

[Rain]

I agree that maybe a ponies name may hint at what special talent they have, it doesn't determine who they are.

Their cutie mark appears when they discover their talents, something they're naturally good at.

Like someone said earlier, Granny Smith's name probably wasn't Granny Smith when she was born.

Your special talent might not be what you do for a living. Cheerilee probably had a different job before she was a teacher.

Names are also a family thing,(The Cakes make cakes, the Apple deal with apples, etc) but family doesn't determine who you are.

A ponies name may hint at what their talent is, or what their future has in store, the it doesn't set it in stone.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Twilight Sparkle could mean different things, but here's a theory. Twilight, the time of day before the sun rises and after it sets, when the sky is likely to be seen as pink and/or purple. Twilight is purple, and has a pink stripe in her purple hair. Sparkle-Unicorn auras sparkle a bit when their magic is used.

Rarity-Has the rare talent of being able to find gems at will, even rare gems. Also, all children can be seen as unique and/or rare. But try naming your kid Rare.

Rainbow Dash-Rainbow mane, very fast (as is typical of a Pegasus).

Fluttershy-Flutter, as a Pegasus does, although has a reserved personality.

Applejack-As said above, part of the Apple family, so has Apple in name.

Pinkamena Diane Pie-It's Pinkie. Dunno.

[Ashton]

I love when fans try to find an in-universe explanation for an out-of-universe phenomenon

Names are also a family thing,(The Cakes make cakes, the Apple deal with apples, etc) but family doesn't determine who you are.

A ponies name may hint at what their talent is, or what their future has in store, the it doesn't set it in stone.

This. Take AJ's unkle and Aunt, while they're *technically* apples by blood, but they're instead oranges and they're socilites, not farmers.

Also Hayseed Turnip Truck, he has turnips as his cutie mark but he's a window washer.

Another possibly example: Zecora, she's an african witch-doctor but her cutie mark is the endless circle ("circle of life" for the TLK fans) though as she's a Zebra this might not apply.

[weesh]

I've been mentally stuck in a loop on this topic for 8 hours. I've almost submitted multiple times. But now I'm ready to dazzle you with my wisdom.

Thesis: names that hint at cutie marks and life's purpose are harmful and irresponsible.

Take the Apple family.

Sure the names are inclusive, loving and traditional. But the message: You are part of the Apple family and if you have a passion outside of our field, you will need to actively pursue it on your own. AJ moved away from home and found that what she was running away from is what she really cared about. I guess striking out to find your purpose is part of growing up.

And I broke the thesis.

My poor mind. I can't reconcile my logic with my emotion on this one.

And usually my emotion is warm and caring, while my logic is cold and exacting. But with this issue, my emotion is saying "DANGER! BACK OFF!" and my logic saying "aawwwwwe, how sweet!"

[Dessa]

Mothers have dreams, and wake up knowing what to name their foals. These dreams come through the same mysterious channels that Cutie Marks come from.

[Guest EoLPinkie]

I've been mentally stuck in a loop on this topic for 8 hours. I've almost submitted multiple times. But now I'm ready to dazzle you with my wisdom.

Thesis: names that hint at cutie marks and life's purpose are harmful and irresponsible.

Take the Apple family.

Sure the names are inclusive, loving and traditional. But the message: You are part of the Apple family and if you have a passion outside of our field, you will need to actively pursue it on your own. AJ moved away from home and found that what she was running away from is what she really cared about. I guess striking out to find your purpose is part of growing up.

And I broke the thesis.

My poor mind. I can't reconcile my logic with my emotion on this one.

And usually my emotion is warm and caring, while my logic is cold and exacting. But with this issue, my emotion is saying "DANGER! BACK OFF!" and my logic saying "aawwwwwe, how sweet!"

Magical overload! Magical overload! It's so much easier when you just give in and abandon logic weesh! Not to mention more fun! I mean you can't really ignore the laws of physics if you're logical can you? Poor smarty pony caught in a loop for 8 hours. Think of how many fun games you could have played!

You ponies are thinking too much about this anyway. Everypony is named at random! What does Vanilla Sky really mean anyway? Berry Punch? Pokey Pierce? If you're talking about Mane 6, sure Rainbow Dash makes me think of a rainbow going fast, but Twilight Sparkle or Rarity makes me think of anything! Of course Pinkie Pie is the best name

If name=cutie mark, I really want to see riverhippo's. I'd give all my cupcakes for it.

[Hippo]

Shakespeare's "What's in a name" quote is obviously not a favorite of MLP. The names of the ponies mean directly who they are in most cases. I like to think of it more figuratively. In real like, physical appearance is just skin deep, and anyone can have almost any name based on mostly two things: gender and nationality. Beyond that, someones name could be totally random. But for cartoon characters, especially ponies, the names describe who they ARE because the appearance of a character can misguide the viewer into thinking they are something else when they really aren't. It makes people who watch cartoons sound like idiots, but it's true. If we had cartoon characters who all had the same appearance and/or shared the same boring names, there isn't much joy to seeing them come alive at us, unless of course the fact that they all look the same IS the joke, like this example:

Cartoons are best enjoyed when the viewer already knows a character by their name for identity purposes. And since ponies have always had the cheesey kitchen names like Cupcake and Sprinkles, its only convinient to give them direct names for their 'talents'. They don't even bother wasting their time trying to make it fit nicely, they just throw the first thing that comes to mind, lol. Other cartoons would have to strategize what names to use based on the character's profile and background.

And for the accuracy of it, I highly doubt we'll ever see ponies grow up. The biggest thing we've seen in growth is Spike's stunted growth which apparently is made by his dragon nature to be greedy. Other than that and an occasional cutie mark given to an adolescent pony, I don't think it's going to be detrimental to the show's story to have a problem with names and/or cutie marks colliding with a chicken and the egg kind of argument.

We've somehow established that ponies do not have last names. I would submit that instead of last names, like Pie, Sparkle, and Dash, we would have families of ponies that share sir names, or names that are passed down, sort of like a "Jr." For instance, not every Apple family pony has to like and be named after apples, but perhaps the families are so inspired by apples that they name their kin after the glorious fruit. But of course, it's completely possible for an apple pony to not grow apples and a Apple family pony not named after an apple to work on an apple farm. No pony has the last name "Apple". instead, and very large branch of this family tree is named after them, the same way there may be a large branch of someone's family tree that share the same first name because it was passed down. I bet most of us ever bear a name that was passed down. My middle name was my mom's side grandfathers.

Anyways, I much prefer Applejack over "Bobby Jo".

[zombiedalmations]

Granny Smith's name must have been something else before.

Otherwise, she was always destined to be a granny, which is kinda weird...

Not to mention how awkward that would be when she was a filly. P:

So, if Granny Smith's original name was allowed to be changed, then I'm sure the names of other ponies could have also been subject to change.

I don't think Granny Smith is necessarily an exception. I could assume the "Smith" part of her name can easily be part of her name, but i assume the "Granny" part of it only came to be after she became a grandmother.

Another possibility is that she has a whole other name and "Granny Smith" is just a nickname given to her by the Apple family.

Or i could be wrong and her name is legitimately Granny Smith. Just something to think about

[ChancellorPuddinghead]

The names break the 4th wall - they were given by the creator/writers as puns for humor or just to be lighthearted. There's an old pony who's name is Combover Liverspot. Apparently that hasn't always been his name - and his cutie mark is a bubble pipe.

If you want to make an 'in character' solution to this - just go with nicknames - Granny Smith may actually have the name Apple Pie because of how Apple recurs within the family and now she is called Granny Smith as a term of affection.

There's a Granny Pegasus too -

[flutterscotch]

Basically, they come up with visual puns to sell pony toys first, and try to cram it into a backstory and rationalize it in the real world second.

You don't want a toy pony named Leonard that has pink hair and cake on her butt. You want it to be appropriate so that children can remember their names. <no-fun practicalscotch>

[CoderBrony]

I don't know, when I see a cake, I think "Leonard". It all steams from that incident with Leonard Nimoy in the Black Forest...

And yes, this is all trying to rationalize stuff that happens on the other side of the fourth wall, but isn't that what most of all fandoms is occupied with? If they're going to make a fiendishly addictive universe and get us sucked into it, we're going to try to have it make sense! We'll try to figure out why Rarity, who owns her own business and is probably human-equivalent mid-twenties hangs out with Pinkie Pie (mid-teens at best), and why Scootaloo can have an internal combustion engine on her scooter, but the trains are pulled by ponies, etc! We'll rationalize the hay out of that world, until our ears bleed!

Coder

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

You know, there was a time in our own world where people were often expected to continue the family business when they grew up. But seriously, rock farming doesn't have anything to do with pies. I figure its just a case that pony parents either like to have fun guessing based on their first impression of the new foal's personality, and over the centuries have gotten sorta good at it, or they name them after something they would like them to be when they grow up.

Some newborns are quiet, others are very noisy and cranky. My folks tell me that I was the latter.

[Rosewind]

I think a lot of creative and artistic license needed to be made up in order to make the story function. As fans of the show we crave for more canon and story to cling on to, buuuuut given the fact it's a cartoon, we'll have to settle with whatever the creative powers give us, or whatever we come up with as fanon.

My thoughts? I think some ponies are a synthesis of their parents' traits (this would explain Twilight, but certainly not Rarity), so that would serve as a basis for how a lot of ponies were originally named.

[Guest EoLPinkie]

hi hi

You know, there was a time in our own world where people were often expected to continue the family business when they grew up. But seriously, rock farming doesn't have anything to do with pies. I figure its just a case that pony parents either like to have fun guessing based on their first impression of the new foal's personality, and over the centuries have gotten sorta good at it, or they name them after something they would like them to be when they grow up.

Some newborns are quiet, others are very noisy and cranky. My folks tell me that I was the latter.

My doctor told my parents I could very well have mental problems, since I always had my tongue sticking out when I was itty-bitty. Turns out I was just enjoying life already!

[Dessa]

Granny Smith is the name of a kind of apple, like Red Delicicious, Fuji, or Pink Lady. The green apple you're most likely to find at the grocery store is the Granny Smith variety.

You don't want a toy pony named Leonard that has pink hair and cake on her butt.

Speak for yourself

We'll try to figure out why Rarity, who owns her own business and is probably human-equivalent mid-twenties hangs out with Pinkie Pie (mid-teens at best), and why Scootaloo can have an internal combustion engine on her scooter, but the trains are pulled by ponies, etc! We'll rationalize the hay out of that world, until our ears bleed!

According to Faust:

Q: How old are the ponies?

The ponies' ages were left intentionally undefined. I like to think of them as having maturity levels anywhere between 12 and 18, (but remember that maturity is different than age. You can be a 10-year-old with the maturity of a 15-year-old, and you can be a 35-year-old with the maturity of a 15-year-old.) For story telling purposes, they needed to be able to live independent of parents, but innocent enough for the type of lessons they learn at the end of the episodes. Since horses are full grown around 5-ish, I guess I sort of justified it in my head that they could be childlike young adults. I know this answer is frustrating for some people, but it happens often in cartoons. How old is Bugs Bunny? Mickey Mouse? Sponge Bob? I don't know either.

Pinkie Pie seems less mature than Rarity, but age-wise it might make sense. As for the question why anypony would hang out with Pinkie Pie, well she's Pinkie Pie! I would!

Scootaloo's scooter is powered by her wings, as seen in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zzdlvRbyVo

No engine necessary

You know, there was a time in our own world where people were often expected to continue the family business when they grew up. But seriously, rock farming doesn't have anything to do with pies.

Pinkie Pie never was one to do anything on the beaten track. I suspect that she was expected to follow in the family's footsteps too, which is why she was so nervous when she threw that first party. She was afraid that her family would object to her forging her own path.

As for the source of names, if CMs can be predestined, names might well be too.

[JasonTheHuman]

Mothers have dreams, and wake up knowing what to name their foals. These dreams come through the same mysterious channels that Cutie Marks come from.

This is now my headcanon. To paraphrase a Penny Arcade comic:

"Magic."

"Yes, but how do they - "

"They are marshmallow ponies and it happens through magic."