W&D S01EP21 - Over a Barrel [part 2 now active!]

[Tam]

Really? Oh...! Well. idk it was just... normally I associate buffalos with being just kind of big and dumb. If Native Americans were consulted though and thought it was okay, I will admit I may have totally taken something out of the episode that wasn't there, haha.

Bison (aka buffalo) were often important totem animals for several Native American groups, and the rare albino/white buffalo were believed to be sacred. This was especially true for the Comanche. What you perceive as "big and dumb", the Natives considered "powerful and calm".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_buffalo

http://www.sacred-geometry.com/Print_Co ... _Totem.htm

[synicalsel]

Thaaaat would make sense. Ahhh, I was a big derp and was very wrong! :'D Thank you for explaining! <3

[Hippo]

It's pretty clear that the worst part of this episode is Twilight's mispronunciation of 'everypony.'

However, I contest that it's not necessarily the writers messing up, especially how easy it was to catch this time. I suspect that 'body' is thrown in there every once and a while on purpose, as to not overdo the use of everypony, anypony, and no pony. It keeps the dialogue on a chain and allows the universe the characters are in to be not so 'out of this world.'

[RCTwilightSparkle]

It's pretty clear that the worst part of this episode is Twilight's mispronunciation of 'everypony.'

However, I contest that it's not necessarily the writers messing up, especially how easy it was to catch this time. I suspect that 'body' is thrown in there every once and a while on purpose, as to not overdo the use of everypony, anypony, and no pony. It keeps the dialogue on a chain and allows the universe the characters are in to be not so 'out of this world.'

But this is the first time I've heard anypony say it

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I just figured it was because she was referring to the buffalo as well, who weren't ponies.

[RCTwilightSparkle]

hi hi

I just figured it was because she was referring to the buffalo as well, who weren't ponies.

Thanks! I was just about to say it too... one of my friends pointed it out to me. Derp

[Manestream]

Really? Oh...! Well. idk it was just... normally I associate buffalos with being just kind of big and dumb. If Native Americans were consulted though and thought it was okay, I will admit I may have totally taken something out of the episode that wasn't there, haha.

Bison (aka buffalo) were often important totem animals for several Native American groups, and the rare albino/white buffalo were believed to be sacred. This was especially true for the Comanche. What you perceive as "big and dumb", the Natives considered "powerful and calm".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_buffalo

http://www.sacred-geometry.com/Print_Co ... _Totem.htm

I'm Native American myself, I didn't see it as offensive. Its hard to do these things and not see them as cliche; but it was a nice touch to see that the buffalo chief was equally compassionate in wanting to avoid the issue, but without any ideas didn't know how (when talking to rainbow dash), and that he wasn't going to stampede the town (until pinkie started singing, again), and finally that it was his idea of compromise that ultimately solved the problem. I feel like a lot of effort was made to make sure no one was portrayed negatively.

The white buffalo is part of 'creation myth' in the groups Tam mentioned; and buffalo in general were a part of Native American livelihood and sustainability. I think it was really appropriate to represent them in this way.

It tickled me when Rarity said she liked their accessories xD I can see rarity all trussed up in feathers now

[Silverwind]

*chuckles* Pinky Fail.. Sooo much Pinky Fail. XD XD XD

[buxy]

It tickled me when Rarity said she liked their accessories xD I can see rarity all trussed up in feathers now

The show is very careful about stereotyping (be it positive or negative), and I believe I read somewhere that they consulted with Native American representatives before putting this episode to print to be sure there were no qualms with their portrayal. All that said, though, I love that they are not afraid to let Rarity reduce so many things to simple fashion choices (the buffalo's "accessories", Zecora's stripes, etc). It cracks me up every time.

[brianblackberry]

It tickled me when Rarity said she liked their accessories xD I can see rarity all trussed up in feathers now

This needs to be drawn.

[SunsetSombra]

Give it a few days...I'm sure there'll be plenty on DA by then. XD

[Teh_Brawler]

To be honest, I found the premise of this one to be a little silly. However, I still enjoyed it fairly much

[JabberwockyPie]

Discussions about race relations get tricky, but something about this episode really got under my skin, so I'm trying to state my thoughts while staying calm and rational.

I may be reading a bit more into it, but this episode made me feel a little uncomfortable. I was expecting it to be a sort of Imperialism Is Wrong moral (much like Zecora was Racism/Prejudice Is Bad), but instead it kind of reduces the struggle of the Native Americans (and other native peoples who were displaced by European settlers, but they were pretty clearly supposed to be American Indians) to . . . everything can be solved with pie? Like the Apple-loosans were ENTITLED to live on the land that historically belonged to the buffalo just . . . because?

It just kind of struck me a little bit like the stuff they used to tell (still do? It's been ages) us in elementary school about pilgrims and indians[sic] all sitting around in harmony at the First Thanksgiving when . . . well, in real life the Native Americans got screwed over pretty badly.

It tickled me when Rarity said she liked their accessories xD I can see rarity all trussed up in feathers now

The show is very careful about stereotyping (be it positive or negative), and I believe I read somewhere that they consulted with Native American representatives before putting this episode to print to be sure there were no qualms with their portrayal. All that said, though, I love that they are not afraid to let Rarity reduce so many things to simple fashion choices (the buffalo's "accessories", Zecora's stripes, etc). It cracks me up every time.

Well I guess Rarity is like the real life fashion industry in another way - culturally appropriating the traditional accessories from different cultures. (That line made me uncomfortable in Zecora's episode, too. I mean wouldn't a pony painting on stripes be, um, kind of like the equivalent of blackface? Well at least she doesn't actually DO it.) And I say this as a Rarity fan generally.

All in all, I can still enjoy something (like ponies and FiM) even if I accept that it had flaws, but I didn't really like this episode and I liked it less when I rewatched it and I let my thoughts simmer a little bit. It seemed really problematic.

[Manestream]

It just kind of struck me a little bit like the stuff they used to tell (still do? It's been ages) us in elementary school about pilgrims and indians[sic] all sitting around in harmony at the First Thanksgiving when . . . well, in real life the Native Americans got screwed over pretty badly.

The reason this episode does not sting me is because it is an effort to show that if two groups work together they can both come out ahead. Both sides have good reasons for needing the land; the buffalo had it first and they were using the land for traditional purposes, but the new settlers could not live without the trees. Through compromise, supposedly, both sides live better lives. Pie is not the solution to the problem- it is the reward brought about by the solution of compromise.

This of course is not what actually happened historically, but i also think being too sensitive about the issue to ever let it be an example, or an opportunity to teach, would be an awful waste on our part. I'd rather that part of history be so sensitive that no one ever touches it, and then lost.

I could find any one of hundreds of things to be upset about in this episode if I had a mind to nit-pick it enough, nothing is ever perfect when examined with a large enough microscope. I'm not afflicted with it because I can clearly see that strides were taken to best represent the parties and a positive lesson.

[JabberwockyPie]

Of course, I could find any one of hundreds of things to be upset about in this episode if I had a mind to nit-pick it enough, nothing is ever perfect when examined with a large enough microscope. I'm not afflicted with it because I can clearly see that strides were taken to best represent the parties and a positive lesson.

Occupational hazard, I guess. In an effort to be more socially aware I've developed "goggles", if you will, for picking apart media and examining it. This has the unfortunate side-effect of not being able to turn it off at all! It tends to leave me little niggling feelings when I watch/read/whatever things. There are movies and TV shows and books that I loved as a kid (or even just a few years ago) that make me *facehoof* now. Even something like Firefly (which I ADORED for a while, and not exclusively because Nathan Fillion has pretty hair) there's a voice in the back of my head going "You know, for a supposedly half-Chinese universe, there sure aren't many Asian people. That's kinda not cool".

[BlackFang]

[Manestream]

Even something like Firefly (which I ADORED for a while, and not exclusively because Nathan Fillion has pretty hair) there's a voice in the back of my head going "You know, for a supposedly half-Chinese universe, there sure aren't many Asian people. That's kinda not cool".

Lol- you've got a really good point though! xD

Nathan Fillion is good all around x'3

[JabberwockyPie]

Even something like Firefly (which I ADORED for a while, and not exclusively because Nathan Fillion has pretty hair) there's a voice in the back of my head going "You know, for a supposedly half-Chinese universe, there sure aren't many Asian people. That's kinda not cool".

Lol- you've got a really good point though! xD

Nathan Fillion is good all around x'3

True facts: The only Asian actor in the whole series with a speaking role plays a whore. That's . . . kind of iffy, IMO. Maybe things would have been different if the series had progressed longer, but it's hard to say. (Fun fact: Kaylee was originally conceptualized as being Asian.)

Honest to god, I just got a mental image of Rarity meeting Nathan Fillion and asking what he uses to make his mane hair so pretty and silky. I just want to touch it. And that's just a little creepy, but really, he should do ads for conditioner or something.

Incidentally, Google Image Search turned up this. http://my-little-modified-pony.tumblr.c ... -trillions I don't feel that it captures the full Hair Prettiness.

[BlazePrower9205]

This isn't the best episode, but I loved it when Fluttershy said that she wanted to be a tree. She's just way too cute! <3

[Teh_Brawler]

This isn't the best episode, but I loved it when Fluttershy said that she wanted to be a tree. She's just way too cute! <3

I am GOING to make a t-shirt of that and put her cutie mark on one of the sleeves.

[JabberwockyPie]

This begs the inevitable question: If Fluttershy was a tree, what kind of tree would she be?

I'm thinking weeping willow. Her hair makes me think of one.

[Orange Dart]

This isn't the best episode, but I loved it when Fluttershy said that she wanted to be a tree. She's just way too cute! <3

I am GOING to make a t-shirt of that and put her cutie mark on one of the sleeves.

I would wear it. Just for the confused looks I'd get.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Everything has probably already been said, but I was away for the weekend and just got to watch the EP.

'I'd like to be a tree.'

'Huffy the magic dragon.'

Lol at the train being pulled by ponies.

Rainbow Dash is Winnie the Pooh 'Think think think think think.'

I really didn't like how it ended up ending. Rainbow Dash and Applejack managed to get a member from both parties to talk about it, but then they ruined the whole thing, which could have possibly been resolved without the beautiful clock tower being destroyed.

I also like western gal Pinkie, but that was not one of her better songs.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

It's pretty clear that the worst part of this episode is Twilight's mispronunciation of 'everypony.'

However, I contest that it's not necessarily the writers messing up, especially how easy it was to catch this time. I suspect that 'body' is thrown in there every once and a while on purpose, as to not overdo the use of everypony, anypony, and no pony. It keeps the dialogue on a chain and allows the universe the characters are in to be not so 'out of this world.'

The way I see it, everybody is a kind of universal word, no matter what species someone is. I mean, if you look at it, it's a combination of two words, "every" and "body." Which is basically everyone that lives and breathes.

The reason this episode does not sting me is because it is an effort to show that if two groups work together they can both come out ahead. Both sides have good reasons for needing the land; the buffalo had it first and they were using the land for traditional purposes, but the new settlers could not live without the trees. Through compromise, supposedly, both sides live better lives. Pie is not the solution to the problem- it is the reward brought about by the solution of compromise.

But no one actually seemed to actually work together....It just seemed that at the end up things, yes, a mutual agreement was made...But what was it, exactly? The entire war could have possibly been avoided....if not for the main cast. The Chief seemed to be willing to talk about things, but not really the Sheriff...but Braeburn was.

Dash and AJ got a someone from both parties to come and try to resolve the problem, and then they blew it.

It kind of feels like the pies were a sort of demand from the buffalo. The Apple-Loosians give them apples in exchange for them not destroying their town and orchard. Technically, though, since it was the buffalo's land first and no pony consulted them before putting a town there, I feel that the buffalo are kind of entitled to whatever's on the land.

[buxy]

Technically, though, since it was the buffalo's land first and no pony consulted them before putting a town there, I feel that the buffalo are kind of entitled to whatever's on the land.

Nail, head. If your neighbor decides to plant an apple tree in the middle of your backyard, guess who's getting the apples in the fall. Not your neighbor. The buffalo were being fairly generous in allowing the ponies' use of the land to continue, I think.