Rosewind

Of course, I may be thinking too deep. Just remember, the name is NOT about autism. That's a TERRIBLE way to look at it. It's just the name of a character in a cartoon. We LOVE these characters. Lets not flame the character or the creators for the name "Derpy", and enjoy how far we've come. From a small, unintentional animation error to our very own character, I believe this needs to be CELEBRATED, not hated!

That image with Zecora is great. I think the term "autism" is used way too much around the internet, and it only suggests ignorance of the person that uses it to define mental retardation. There's a HUGE difference between mental retardation and autism spectrum disorder. Mental retardation means that your brain thinks slower than usual -- it's defined like "thinking in molasses." A person challenged with autism has a brain that thinks and processes information differently. When they have trouble doing that, they might perform a coping behavior which might be negative or socially awkward -- and the range of this developmental disorder is absolutely huge.

I find it interesting that one goofy background character gets a voice, and there's outrage about her mental status. Entire series are designed around goofy characters with lower-than-average intelligence. Remember Two Stupid Dogs? Ed Edd And Eddy is another contender. Howzabout Ren and Stimpy? There's dozens -- if not hundreds -- more characters that have similar traits that Derpy has, and I don't see anyone crying "autism" about those.

hi hi

So let me get this straight. You've started a topic about a frequently heated and divisive topic because you want people to argue about it less?

Nice one, Ginger!

I have to agree with Shadowdeath too -- if it's the correct mythological term for what it is, that's what it is. I suppose some people could argue that "wyrm" is a better term for "dragon," but we know dragons are referred to as dragons in FiM canon/lore (probably for the sake of simplicity, and most kids watching it might not have any idea what a wyrm is).

It's trending off the SOPA crap. It's all a PITA if you ask me.

I never got the vibe that Derpy was mentally retarded in any way. She's clumsy and accident prone. When I'm clumsy I personally say I'm "derping out." I suppose my counter-argument to the folks saying Studio B was taking a swing at mentally handicapped is that they're following a horrid stereotype and not even realizing it.

If she didn't act that way, a lot of fans would be mad that Studio B ruined the character for us. They couldn't win in either case, so they indulged it, and I think it made a greater positive stir with the fans in the end. I know that I've been thrilled since last Saturday, and more excited about FiM and what we can expect in the future (easter egg or in-our-faces) as a result.

I've seen some fans say "Oh my Celestia." I've used that phrase myself, too, cause I think it's cute. I'm thinking it might be another nod to the fanbase, which makes it that much cooler.

Is Celestia a goddess? She's immortal (as far as we can tell), and has the ability to raise the sun. She's wise and interested in the well-being of her subjects. Her sister Luna also has divine powers. I think the design philosophy is geared more toward Greek mythos where certain divine beings rule over certain aspects of the universe, than the modern-day singular religious understanding of what makes a divine being (or several).

You did not clarify in your prior post, I think anyone on the outside looking in could easily misunderstand your comment as "I would bring trixie back as a main character just to **** up all the fans and watch the flame wars as the fandom tears itself appart!" And that is what I based my post around. (Many of the points you made were the same ones I made - I said many times I'd love to see just a reference to her at some point so we know that she didn't commit suicide)

Um...no. What I wrote was this:

I'd bring back Trixie just to see the fan freakout. We never expected Derpy to ever have a voice of her own...but here we are!

The second sentence reinforced the tonality of the first statement that I shared -- I said the unexpected happened with Derpy, and it was positive. I made it very clear that if Trixie came back, I think it would cause a big stir in the fandom. This was to emphasize my point that the background characters can cause a big stir if they're introduced to the series in unexpected or surprising ways. Vinyl Scratch/Pon-3 would probably get just as much reaction, as would the dozen or so other BG ponies. Octavia had a recent reprise, if I'm not mistaken, and it garnered positive response.

Now that's all clarified, I don't think you speak for "Anyone outside looking in," but just yourself and something that you -- to my misfortune --misunderstood:

I think anyone on the outside looking in could easily misunderstand your comment as "I would bring trixie back as a main character just to **** up all the fans and watch the flame wars as the fandom tears itself appart!" And that is what I based my post around.

Please don't put words in my mouth (and then call my opinion immature). I'm all for having an intelligent discussion about pony, but I feel that goal is going to fall short if you're making wild assumptions about what you think was said and what was actually said.

Mmm I'd say it's okay, with reservations. The episode assumes you know a lot of the character dynamics between the cast already, and the inclusion of Derpy at the start won't really mean anything to someone who doesn't know who she is. I suppose it would be good since if I was viewing it for the first time, it would make me curious about the characters and wanting to know more about them.

My personal favorite infection material is Applebuck Season. Hooks them every time.

I'll be honest, that's a very immature viewpoint. Yes, we're all like discord at times and love to see chaos at work, but think about this:

There are a lot of fans who are on the fence, or just got into the series, a sudden jar like that could send the away before they got hooked enough to buy any merchandise (because, lets face it, the whole point of FiM isn't to entertain, and it isn't to educate, it's to sell merchandise) Not only that, but there are a lot of fans who, with every episode, are unhappy with how it went and it wouldn't take too much to pushed them out of the fandom.

On the other end of the spectrum, what would be GAINED by this? In a slice-of-life series like FiM, Trixie really has no role to play. Had the series been more arc-based she could have been a recurring villian, or a nemesis. As it is, the only thing she might do is serve as a direct foil to Twilight in a "my magic is better than your magic" the same way that AJ and Dash act as foils to each other in physical strength. This gives a couple new storylines and a few new sight-gags but really doesnt add much to the story as a whole.

In short, at this point in the series it would be too big of a gamble to bring Trixie back. There is no solution that will make all of us happy. (Just to point it out, I'm not in the "I Trixie" camp. She's a villian and that's what I'll always see her as) Hasbro's best solution right now is to simply leave her out of the story so they don't anger a large percentage of fans. Truly the only "safe" option *IS* as I suggested and make a reference to her somewhere that's not plot-dependent and really is just a filler or sight gag.

No matter how the do it, if they bring Trixie back, that WILL be the day they jump the shark.

How is my point of view "immature"? You're assuming too much on your end. When I said "I'd bring back Trixie just to see the fan freakout," I meant more as a cameo, not a full-blown character that will perpetuate in pony canon forevermore. Have her peek out a window or something.

Would Trixie's inclusion send negative waves to people? Of course. Nobody will ever be satisfied with anything. There are some neighsayers against Derpy's new and updated role in the episode last Saturday. Also, everyone has their own set of standards of what constitutes a good episode. My Party of One could be your Mare Do Well, it's all a difference of opinion regarding that. If people are ready to "abandon the fandom" over the inclusion of a background character, maybe they need to reevaluate what the series is to them, and why they enjoy it. It certainly makes no difference to me if you stop liking the series over something that happens in the show. I'll still enjoy it.

That said, I think you're wrong about what FiM is. Is it created to entertain? Yes, it is. It does this very well, by design. Is it created to educate? Not specifically, but it always has a message with something good to teach behind it. Is it created to sell stuff? Yes, it is, but that is not its focal point like the previous generations before it -- Ms. Faust saw to that when she insisted that merchandising only be placed in episodes where it makes sense. Twilight's balloon is a great example of this. (I'm sure somepony else can confirm the former point I just made, I'm too tired to dig it up tonight.) For these reasons, I believe your statement about what FiM wasn't created to be isn't as validated as you might think.

Is Trixie a villain, or an antagonist? I think she's an antagonist. She's not really evil, and she doesn't hurt anyone. She even makes friends with Snips and Snails (one-sided as it was). I think she is a pretty neat character -- we didn't see much of her, but I personally would like to see her gain some sort of redemption. While that might be out of the scope of some big story arc, FiM does practice a light form of continuity -- a good example would be pets. Twilight's owl didn't reappear (unless I'm mistaken) until Find a Pet, but he did make a reappearance from an episode from last season. Also Luna got an episode after, what? Five seconds of face time in the second episode of season one. By that token, if it made sense for Trixie to reappear to help tell a story, I think it would be really neat to see how the fans would react.

I hardly think that is an "immature" or undeveloped opinion.

It gives me the feeling I got when a long time ago I'd wake up early on Saturday mornings to watch cartoons. It hits all the things I find compelling in a quality animated series: interesting characters, fun visuals, superb voice acting, a special brand of comedy...and some sort of intangible "x" factor that just makes it all work.

I'd bring back Trixie just to see the fan freakout. We never expected Derpy to ever have a voice of her own...but here we are!

Exactly. Already now, after The Last Round-up, there's an outcry that this one scene right after the intro sequence had the whole show jump the shark. It's not my opinion, though, but some say so.

I was thinking about this, and I was wondering if I needed to change my view. I actually liked how the episode opened with Derpy and Rainbow. The only real character development is that her name, Derpy, is 100% without a doubt canon, and she has a voice now. There's not really any character development that could spoil her as a character to speak of, as the other background ponies get a few lines now and then, too.

I've done some thinking about this, and here's my current take:

G1-G3:

1. The characters are designed to sell toys. They have shallow, undeveloped personalities, and the writing isn't interesting.

2. The central message in every episode isn't skillfully integrated, and is seldom relatable to an older audience.

3. The characters look odd (bringing in that Uncanny Valley argument).

G4:

1. The characters are all different, but still relatable to us in different ways. We all have a bit of the Mane Six in us.

2. The message behind every episode is still relevant (maybe even more so) to the older crowd, as well as children -- but it's not in our faces.

3. The artwork, fluidity, and love put into the production is self-evident. Everything about it is fun, colorful, and interesting to look at.

Donkies are now canon. Oh, wait...

Sounds like an interesting episode. I'm interested to see if the design is the same from the first time we saw a donkey in the series.

Cupcakes was better.

My favorite episode of the season so far. The whole opening scene with Derpy was beyond Celestia tier.

First I was like...then I was like...

Wait...did Derpy just speak? Nah it was probably just Rainbow. OH MY GAWD SHE IS SPEAKING!

Great story, involvement of all the mane six, nod to I Love Lucy; I loved the design of Cheeries Jubilee. We have several more rodeo ponies to fanonize. Plenty of Pinkie Pie goodness. There's nothing about this episode that wasn't amazing to me. Well done, FiM team! Bravo!

Starfox, you are a super hero. What a wonderful bunch of points you've brought up and expanded upon -- this is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to see.

Hello everypony! I'm Rosewind. You might know me as that crazy gal that likes to jump on you with her opinions about My Little Pony and net culture, but I am making this thread tonight to highlight --and perhaps bring some higher thought -- into the internal thought processes at work that really help perpetuate the awesomeness of FiM, and the community as a whole.

A lot of what makes the show popular is undoubtedly the amazing character design. While it might be easy to discuss why G4 is so much better to some of us than the past three generations of character design, I think it's more important to understand why.

First, watch this. Seriously, watch it. If anything, just watch the first 1:30 so you can understand what exactly the Uncanny Valley is, and why it's important to understand how it affects the way we think.

My theory is that this paradigm doesn't apply to just things that look human. What if, perhaps, this also applies to how we view ponies? Or anything, for that matter? I think G3 in particular tried too hard to move the cutesy horse model into creepy territory, so we ended up with stuff like this:

The more you try to make something look like something it shouldn't be, the more disturbing it is, and the higher chance that we may dislike it. In contrast, the character design in FiM is much more dynamic, and it does not try to emulate the ponies as real ponies. Add rich, layered personalities to the mix, and I think we end up with quite a few likable characters.

I don't believe that this alone is the only thing making the series popular. It's one more dynamic working in synergy with other things. So, I'm throwing this question out to all of you: what do you find attractive about FiM over the older generations, and why?

Pardon the sorta-necro. This is mine: http://mlp-vectorclub.deviantart.com/gallery/?set=29968910&offset=240#/d3g75qv

Oh hi, Rose! Nice to see another...Rose.

i concede, and apologize

You don't need to apologize, or even agree with me. I was just giving some insight into your statement, that's all. No hard feelings here, sugar cube!

I will say, Hasbro can be really silly. Or can it? There's also plenty of things the company does I don't personally agree with, but take what they do with a grain of salt, since it's their money that keeps the show in production.

This is a very good point, but raises new concern in me.

So FiM is arguably the most successful generation of MLP. If Hasbro is going to keep ponies going after the "magic" of it all is gone... well i worry they're just gonna run it into the ground trying to squeeze every penny out of it, and ruining it for the people who are still fans.

UGH money-hungry corporate *******s.

Those money-hungry corporate *******s also sign the paychecks of the people who work tirelessly to bring us new episodes. They also have kept their property on a long leash as far as fan-driven content is concerned. You'll notice they only brought out the copyright hammer on the whole episodes around the time of the iTunes season release. They allow the staff of the show to do interviews and create stuff for the brony crowd, they've acknowledged us instead of pretended we're weird and don't exist, like some huge companies might. They've allowed other outlets (WeLoveFine, HotTopic, and others) to do some test merchandizing on us to give us more than just toys to appreciate the series with.

They are a business created to make money. They will do whatever they can to meet that end, as the people who run the company have families to feed and bills to pay as well. It was them that asked Faust to revive the franchise. Without that "greed," we'd still be on some weird reinteration of G3, and the cartoon would be nothing more than the two generations before it. I wouldn't be so sharp to put down the company that has allowed FiM to be what it is today on a basis of making money.

With the background pony thing, I'd be super careful about wanting it to happen. Here's why:

FiM follows a very specific design, following at least one of six mane characters in an episode. There are the other secondary characters (CMCs, Spike, Celestia, etc.) but they are more or less developed characters that are suitable for whatever story the writers throw at them.

Now, let's take a look at Derpy. Imagine if they shaped an entire episode around, say, a typical day in her life. Or maybe she tries to deliver mail to an Ursa Major. While those might be interesting episodes, adding depth to her would only set up something much worse. Maybe she won't even deliver mail -- what if the creative powers decide to have her as a house painter? The more you try to shape, change, and flesh out the character -- especially a character with heavy fanon -- the more opportunity there is for disappointment. We see this quite often with the wacky canon (and the laments of the hardcore RP crowd), as the elements of the series are -- by design -- quite malleble to the creators. I'm waiting for the day we might see Vinyl/Pon-3 without her glasses; what if her eyes were green instead of red?

I think the popularity of the background pony crowd should probably be explored in a much different way, one that doesn't require direct involvement or a spotlight on the character, but in a way that they can participate in the story in some way without upsetting the creative expectation we have for them -- much in the way they actually do now. I'd say probably the best example of this would be Pipsqueak. He looks really neat as a character, but we really don't know that much about him, and we haven't seen him since Luna Eclipsed. He was cute and memorable enough, but the focus was never on him.

TL;DR - Trying to make episodes about background ponies is a bad idea because it might end up making the character less interesting.

Omigosh! Most awesome thing ever to see after waking up! Thank you so much! Can I please, please, please use this as an avatar?

Seriously, this is one of the nicest things someone has ever done for me! My whole day is made!

Of course you can! I'm tickled you like it!

I stumbled across a MLP G1-G3 community forum the other day. There were a few G4 enthusiasts around -- and it appeared to be widely accepted there -- but G4 was definitely not the focus. Those sort of places will continue to exist, even after G4 takes its final bow.

I can't see this happening for quite a while, though. There have been whispers that S3 is done and S4 has started.

This is the greatest thing on the internet.

I kinda got that impression too. However, you don't use cherries to make cider... You use apples...

Really?

I'm also wrong. According to Ponyleaks that video is, indeed, from The Last Roundup, so we'll get to see what's happening tomorrow probably!