teygrim

That's definitely a good lesson to learn, but I don't think I'm just assuming the worste, it's just that I'm having a lot of trouble expecting the best from Celestial given the way she's behaved up to this point. My real problem is with what she said at the end of the Grand Galloping Gala. I can see what the writers were going for (friends can make the worst of times seem pretty good) but the way Celestia framed it sounded more like: as long as you and your friends have a good time then who cares if you ruin things for everyone else. The only two explainations I could come up with for why she would say such a thing are that she was either ingratiating herself with the mane six or that she actually believed what she said. I chose to believe that the princess would never take such a mean spirited attitude but, after reading Rannil's response, I don't feel like I have a choice but to come to that conclusion.

@Rannil Wow, now I feel embarassed; because that makes so much sense that I can't believe that I didn't see it before. I guess I was thinking too much of what a mentor should be that I failed to see the obvious conclusion that she's just taking the piss. I still think that what she did to Luna was excessive though because if the mane six could use the elements of harmony to bring her back to her senses I don't see why a God-like pony like Celestia couldn't have done the same. At the very least she could have brought her sister back a little earlier. One thousand years is one hell of a time-out.

I'm curious as to what are everyones thoughts of Princess Celestia. I mean, some of the things she does don't seem very nice (eg, sending her little sister to the moon for 1000 years for having a tantrum, getting the mane six to ruin the Grand Galloping Gala for everyone else for the lulz). How do you guys explain her behaviour and what is your assesment of her personality. For me, she reminds me of one of those mothers who tries too hard to be BFFs with her daughter. I feel she that she tries too hard to be "just one of the girls" and completely ignores her responsibilities as a mentor/monarch. I think this behaviour probably stems from a lack of self esteem and lack of friends. So, what do you guys think?

There are almost no gay characters on TV, so I think a large part of it is wishful thinking. I say if they want to look up to Rainbow Dash then let them; most of their alternatives are offensive stereotypes.

Exactly. In face, I think that's why Rainbow Dash is so popular; she is the embodiment of Western ideals but she is still part of the group.

@Ginger Mint I think you've hit on a very good point there. FiM can definitely serve as a counter culture to our culture of individuality and autonomy. It satisfies and emphasises a basic human need that is left wanting by Western culture. It allows us to see the value of collectivism rather than glorifying individual achievement ("Apple Buck Season" comes to mind as a prime example of this) like most other stories told in our culture.

@riverhippo I think there's definitely progress but it takes a long time for attitudes to change, and after so many years of bad girl shows people have developed very strong beleifs that they can't be good by definition. And it's hard to prove them wrong if they arn't willing to watch something that's actually good. As far as the character designs go; I don't really know. I havn't been in the MLP fandom for very long and the furry fandom isn't specifically focused on this show.

Actually, I can't stand the orignal cartoon. I found out about it because I'm in the furry fandom and everyone there was obsessing over it. From experience, I've found that people generally don't obsess over something (especially something as socially unacceptable as MLP) unless it's something special.

@riverhippo That's an interesting take, but I think I'm an acception to your rule. I'm one of the few who expected it to be great and it lived up to my expectations. There was no surprise for me, but I still find it awsome to the extreme.

What makes 'Friendship is Magic' so great? It's a question I'm sure we've all asked ourselves at one point or another. I, for one, have been obsessing over the question for the past few days. I've heard many answers and have come up with a few of my own and I'd like to discuss them in this thread. The most obvious answers are the animation, the characters and the writing. While all three are top rate, and certainly help to make the show very good I don't think that they are what push the show into the realms of greatness. 'Madagascar' had very good animation and no one's obsessing over that, and 'Dexter' has very good writing and characters (plus it is more socially acceptable to watch as an adult male) but it fails to inspire the kind of fandom that FiM has garnered. No, I think what makes the show great is something far more subtle and sublime. To me, what makes FiM great is the same thing that made Star Trek great. In fact, I see a very clear similarity between Star Trek fandom and Pony fandom: both were/are great shows that were/are socially unacceptable to watch when they first aired but both created a strong fandom despite the pressure to conform to the prevailing norms of the time to stay away from that 'kids stuff'. As for the inspiration for these fandoms, the shows themselves, I think, again, that the appeal very similar. Although, at face value, the shows look very different I think the subtext for both is the same, and that is the idea of utopia and the our ability to attain it. To explain, I should probably define my interpretation of utopia and its function in literature and philosophy. Utopia is a theoretical value. It's the philosophical equivalent of the mathematical value infinity. It's something that is approached but never reached. It's the destination to a journey of self and social improvement. The importance of utopia lies in its ability to give us direction because it's easy to get lost if you don't know the destination. And although utopia will never be reached, we still become better people along the way. Star Trek and FiM both feature a utopia. Star Trek depicts an Earth that has eliminated war, disease and poverty: a world that lives in harmony and FiM depicts something similar: social harmony. The Star Trek universe and Equestria are both desirable places to be and both are presented in a way to make them feel attainable in the real world. So, although we will never live in a literal Equestria, we can still take cues from that world in order to improve our own. It's an achievable utopia, and FiM teaches viewer the interpersonal skills needed to find it; something that very few works of fiction bother to even attempt. I'm very cynical when it comes to fiction of any kind because of its lack of educational content. That might sound strange given today's stereotype of what makes an 'educational show', but to me, education is the sole purpose of storytelling. To clarify where I'm coming from I feel that I should talk about storytelling in the context of evolution. Imagine, for a moment, the dawn of mankind. There are small tribes whose only method of learning about the world is through direct or vicarious interaction with it. Imagine that, one day, a child falls off the edge of a cliff and dies. The mother learns from the experience that she should keep her kids away from cliffs but in order to spread this knowledge to other mothers she must communicate her experience to them so that they won't have to learn it the hard way. She does this by telling a very simple story (or anecdote if you'd prefer): 'My child played near the cliffs. He fell off and died. Lesson: don't let your children play near cliffs'. Many stories like the one above would be generated through the experiences of the tribe's members and they would be communicated through spoken language and passed down to educate the generations to come about the world they live in. Through the Chinese whispers nature of spoken storytelling, the stories would deviate from the actual events and fictions based on them would be created. While the new stories might not be as accurate as the originals, the overall message and lessons should survive, and through these stories a tribe's member can learn how to interact with the world around them without having to resort to trial and error. Because of the evolutionary advantage using stories as a basis for our world view we have evolved to enjoy hearing them. Unfortunately, writers have taken advantage of this and have focused solely on the enjoyment factor without even thinking of the messages that they send. The result is a whole lot of stories that, while enjoyable to hear, do nothing but regurgitate cultural dogma or teach people things about the world that are no longer relevant. I don't want to go into cultural dogma as it is a very controversial subject and it is not really relevant to the topic so I'll skip over to 'no longer relevant'. An example of 'no longer relevant' is the idea that violence is the answer. I'm sure we've all seen a movie where there's a villain with no redeeming qualities harming the innocent and the only way to overcome him/her is through violence. While violence was a very useful tool in the past, it is rarely the right thing to use today. Violence as a solution is overrepresented in the fictions of today and it is refreshing to have a show like FiM to offer more practical solutions to actual problems that are still relevant to our society (while Transformers was a great show I've never had a problem with evil transforming robots plundering my energy supply in order to create energon cubes. And even if I did, I think I could have figured out that I should use violence to stop them without that show). Now, let's finish up with a little about the characters and the role they play in utopia attainment aspect of the show. The utopia of this show is interpersonal harmony and the way in which it is obtained and maintained in the show is through the relational styles and strategies of the characters. Each character has their own method of relating to their friends and serves a different purpose in the group. The leader, Twilight is very task orientated and uses her talents to organize everyone; the socio-emotional specialist, Pinky Pie, uses her energy and enthusiasm to enhance everyone's mood; the status enhancer, Verity, uses her hyper awareness of social hierarchy to optimize the group's status among others; etc. The point is that each character uses a different strategy to accomplish different interpersonal tasks. This is useful to those who watch the show because they provide role models that the viewer can use in the real world. When a social situation calls for confidence then a fan of the show need only to channel the personality of Rainbow Dash; if a fan needs to make friends fast then they can switch over to Pinky Pie; if they need to play a leadership role then there's Twilight. While each character has their own individual flaws, when you put them together the mane six create an ideal of interpersonal harmony that can serve as something to live by and live up to. For all the reasons mentioned above, I believe people when they say that this show has made them a better person. FiM is a utopia show that provides both a destination and methods to get there; that is why I think the series is great. *** WOAH, I did not intend for this to be THAT long. Sorry guys. But I'm curious about what everyone else thinks. What is it that makes this series of MLP great; you've heard my opinion, now let's hear yours.

Welcome to the forum. It's funny how a character with so few lines appeals to so many, but Big Mac is definitely one of my favorite characters too, EEEEYEP.

Welcome to the boards. It's good to see someone else who recognises how awsome it is to be a nerd.

Thank you, all, for making me feel welcome. Lol, can you really have one without the other. Thanks, and yeah, it seems that most peoples first experience with ponies is a secret when no one else is around. I think theres a topic here on this forum about first experiences if you want to read about more of them.

Hi. I'm teygrim. And I'm an alcoholic - I MEAN BRONY. I've been one for about a week now, but the obsession runs quite deep. I put off watching the show for a while, not because it's for little girls, but because I knew how good it would be. I didn't think that people would go nuts over a show for little girls unless it's something special and I was right. But one drunken night at a furry convention, a couple of bronies showed me an episode and we ended up running around the clubs yelling "IMMA PONY, IMMA PONY". A week later I watched the series then I watched it all over again and now I'm here. So, hi everypony.