Dessa

I just hope that the next time we see the Cutie Mark Crusaders, it'll be in a "fun" episode, and that we no longer get episodes that try to tackle serious issues. Being a children's cartoon, it is simply not equipped to deal with strong subject matter.

I disagree wholeheartedly. This show is at its best when it tackles big issues (and this isn't the first big issue they've dealt with -- heck, this isn't even the first time they've addressed bullies).

:fish:

Thanks, Dessa. It's nice to hear a reasoned response rather than extremism.

I'll admit that "political correctness" and "stockholm syndrome" were bad choices of words. I was ticked off when I wrote my review and really not thinking carefully about my words. I stand by the ultimate message though, which--as we both said--that ultimately the episode dealt with a complex issue too simplistically and offered an answer that truly helps no one.

As for my Skype anecdote, I honestly don't know how I would've dealt with the situation if I didn't have the options I did.

No, it helps some folks. Often, telling a adult is precisely what you should do. Just not always. Depends on the adult.

Really, the best solution is to implement curricula, procedures, and teacher/admin education on how to handle bullying within school grounds. Part of that would be teaching kids, but part of that would be taking kids seriously and insultaing them from the potential consequences of snitching. Kids need to know they can snitch without consequence.

And teachers need to know that corrective behavior should alawys be regulared by adults. There is no "bullies are helping him learn how to behave." That's a major problem.

Also, LOVED this ep.

"Maybe we'll get our Cutie Marks in stupidest ideas of all time."

Tales gets a cutie mark in image memes.

1. Babs Seed Okay first off, her name annoys me. "Babs" is short for "Barbara." So her name is Barbara Seed. I'm sure that fits in perfectly next to names like "Shining Armor," "Big Macintosh" and "Berry Punch."

Pony Joe.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.

Gilda.

Just sayin'.

3. Political Correctness Warning! And this is the big problem. MLP was just not equipped to handle a bullying story without being all annoyingly PC. So naturally, it tries to pull the "oh, the bully is actually someone who is bullied herself," and tries to make Barbara Seed all sympathetic. No. If she's been bullied, then she should know better than to pass it on, and deserves punishment all the more for knowing full well what she was subjecting others to. This idea that we should all develop Stockholm Syndrome for our tormentors is one reason bullying stories simply should not be told... at least as long as the media is the way it is now.

4. Political Correctness Warning Part Two! On top of that, the show goes with the tired moral that the proper response to bullying is to tell somebody--a parent or other authority figure. Did none of the writer's go through high school? Or did the moral guardians stand there with guns to their heads and force them to teach kids to do the thing that only ensures they will never stop being professional victims for as long as they live? Because that's really what dependency on authority will do to you in the long run--make you weak. Sorry, but Apple Bloom and Scootaloo had the right idea when they decided revenge was better.

Ugh, can we retire the term "political correctness" please? Even advertisers are getting tired of Rush Limbaugh. You want the truth about bullying? It's complex! Far more than could be addressed in a 22 minute episode that needs to fit in some jokes between the serious bits. Truth is, bullies ARE sometimes bullied. Not always, but sometimes.

Really, I think you make some fair points dude. Some of them I thought of myself, but coming in with "political correctness" and "stockholm syndrome" and all these fancy two bit words hurts you more than it helps.

Truth is, the proper response to a bully really depends. There's no magic bullet. Sometimes, it IS to ignore them. Sometimes bullies just intensify when you try it. Sometimes, beating the bully up makes them stop. Sometimes, the buly get friends and intensifies (or is someone you cant beat up to begin with). And sometimes, telling an adult DOES get you help, while other times, the adult is incapable or unwilling to solve the problem.

All of these fancy platitudes about "relying on authority is bad" or "children should rely on adults as part of a support network" are too simplistic to address the ENTIRE spectrum of bullying (Not all kids HAVE a network, after all. We live in a sad world).

Truth be told, a kid can only do so much about a bully before he's out of options. If we want to end bullying, it's up to us as ADULTS to put a stop to it. If the world was full of responsible Applejacks, we'd be solid. But it isn't. Sometimes the people who should be responsible don't know what to do, or are intimidated by the bullies themselves, or simply say "it's just kids being kids" and ignore it.

Like, I knew this guy who would come to a Skype group I was in and intentionally try to start fights. He would also pretend in the background to be everyone's friend so he could learn things about them, then spread it to others in private to create dissent and cause more dramas. When I figured out his game, I blocked him and then kickbanned him from the Skype chat, not even asking anyone else if it was okay.

You used your authority to stop bullying. What would you have done if you could not kickban him? If you answer "get the mod to ban him," you're a hypocrite.

In regards to storytelling, I'm with this lady:

17. Your body of work demonstrates a zeal for character-driven media. What have you seen in your career that compels you to champion and create this style of media, and why do you pursue your specific dreams and aspirations? In short, what does Lauren Faust hope to achieve - and leave behind?

I champion character-driven stories and humor because character-driven stuff is just what I like to watch and what I like to do. I think making your audience experience an emotional reaction is the core of good storytelling, and you can’t evoke emotion without likable, relatable characters. Some shows focus on gags and written jokes and have an exclusive goal to get laughs, but I prefer comedy that has a sincere emotional core...and humor that comes from characters, not one-liners.

And to me, this episode felt more gag-driven than character driven. Storytelling, despite the assertions of some, is not just another word for "plot." Predictable plotting doesn't preclude good storytelling, and I think previous episodes are examples of this.

I kinda like the "Aquastria" pun.

Whitehawke, I get where you're coming from, but the majority of episodes in this series fall prey to some of the same problems you describe. The difference is the name of the writer. Polsky, Larson, and Meghan could literally write the same script and Polsky would get the most flack. Same goes with puns. When it was Lauren coming up with or just suggesting these absolutely awful horse puns, everyone rolled their eyes and laughed and called it charming. But that silly new book has Aquastria, which is apparently a sign that well they just don't care. It's no worse than the puns Lauren made, but we accepted the crud that Lauren fed us just like we accept the crud that is fed to us by many of the writers- save Polsky and one other I forgot.

You have quite literally made a mountain out of a molehill that exists with everyone else. Don't get so worked up for no reason.

This doesn't even make any sense. Whitehawke is pointing out, with specific examples and detailed explanations, why he felt like these were examples of bad writing. Not just lame jokes, but actual poorly structured storytelling. Nopony is saying Polsky can't tell a good joke. He's actually pretty good at this. We're saying he has trouble telling stories well, which is a seperate criticism.

Because, poke fun at Faust's humor if you wish, the show has never been as consistently plotted, chatacterized, and set as well as it has been since Faust was at the helm. And that includes the Polsky eps.

I am pro secret compartment. Is it a (over-used) plot device? Yes, it is. However, given the time constraint of the episode in question, it did what it needed to do.

How many times does Twilight pluck a book off her shelf to solve the problem du jour? I think by looking up a secret compartment, it gave that scene a little more contrast and whimsy than just simply having her pick up a book/search for a book like she normally does. I think the expectation and thirst for more lore in every episode leads to continued disappointment, especially when writers lean back on well-known cartoon tropes to perpetuate the story within its focus.

Too much lore is a bad thing; hinting at something more and keeping the world mysterious and full of surprises can be good storytelling practice if it's executed properly, carefully crafted lead up or not.

Given how many times Pinkie has been the one to locate Twi's book, an episode about multiple Pinkies would seem like the perfect place to call that back. Heck, make the scene actually worthwhile by letting it be a subtle clue about the real Pinkie.

Twi: Where is that book?

Pinkie: It's right over heeere~♪

Twi: Pinkie, how did you find it?!

Pinkie: I saw it last week when I helped you clean, silly!

Man, maybe they should hire me.

This may or may not pertain to future episodes:

Is this a sign that we may eventually see seaponies on the show?

Interesting. But the wording on the book of it being a "brand new" location makes me think that will be its first introduction (which makes it less likely it will be cartoon canon, IMO).

No, Ginger, you sound like awesome, and I look forward to your thoughts on every episode. You're one of the few people I feel who can give me satisfying answers even when I disagree.

This! This entirely! "I brought little strong heart here to explain to the settler ponies why they should move their trees"---"That information would be might-"..."That's funny 'cause braeburn here wants to explain to the buffalo why they should stay" (and so on...)

Outsiders whom are not mediators getting involved in the internal affairs of two disagreeing factions, adding fuel to the fire instead of offering council to the two sides to diffuse the issue. Yeah, there were severe problems with that episode.

Not to mention the hoary old racial tropes I thought cartoons had long since buried.

Was Over a Barrel or Feeling Pinkie Keen really all that much deeper and more thoughtful than this one? Doesn't seem that way to me.

As far as I'm concerned, Dave Polsky's about at the same place he was as a writer in season one. Great gags written in, strong comedic focus; overall plot a little scattered, flawed or maybe not fully thought out or realized. if I recall, the morals or means in both of those were questioned to at the time as well.

I still think this ep was fun. I actually think episodes like this have a more than welcome place in the show.

Over a Barrel was a horrible episode, but I'd argue that Feeling Pinkie Keen actually DID have depth. I find it a strength that it leaves its moral open to viewer interpretation.

Also, Pinkie Pie isn't a spaz the whole time. Sometimes, she has feels without zipping all over the screen and screeching every other line at top pitch.

I'm with ZephyrBurst 100%.

Here's why this episode was shallow: Pinkie sees 2 events, wants to go to them both. So she creates a clone. Here's the first problem: she still doesn't get to experience both events. Now, this could be USED to make a point about the lesson, but instead, she just hears about another even and doubles further. Suddenly, it doesn't matter anymore that Pinkie can't go to every event, and the problem becomes too many pinkies. We can relate to wanting to be two places as once, but too many pinkies is just a cartoon gag. In the end, the method applied should be no more effective at finding the real Pinkie than a fake one. Pinkie is distractable.

My rewrite:

Pinkie hears about AJ's barn raising and RD's beach funs, and laments an inability to go to them both. So our conflict here is established: You can't be two places at once, and sometimes you have to make a hard choice. Everyone faces this from time to time -- it's universally relatable.

She has an idea and goes to the pond to double herself.

She sends her clone to the barn raising and hangs out with Rainbow Dash.

While with Dash, she has a GREAT time, and forgets about her earlier dilemma, but afterward meets up with her clone who tells her how AWESOME a time she had with AJ and friends, and she questions her decision to hang out with Dash: What if other Pinkie had more fun? Conflict: still unresolved. (The original story resolves this conflict right here, which was its mistake).

So as Pinkie struggles with this, she overhears about the fun she missed at Flutterhshy's, and she changed her plan. She will deploy a NETWORK OF PINKIE PIES to monitor ALL THE FUN STUFF going on in Ponyville, and use this information to always be where the fun is.

This, too, backfires. First, Pinkie is at Twi's house, having a blast, but then she gets a resport from another Pinkie that there's a conga line at Rarity's, and she HAS TO BE THERE because "OH I LOVE CONGA LINES" Then when she gets there, she hears about how Granny Smith just finished one of her tastey Zap Apple pies and everyone KNOWS those are the BEST, so she goes there... She's starting to show wear, get tired. Once she's at GS's place, another Pinkie tells her about another totally awesome thing, and on the way to that thing, she hears about another, and another. There's so much fun stuff to do!

Meanwhile, the pinkies have been doubling, and there are too many. Parties are getting too hyper. Things are being destroyed. Pinkie hears about this and panics. She just wanted to have fun, and now everything was going sour, but there's not enough of her around to solve it.

She enlists the help of AJ to round up the Pinkie Pies, and Twilight to help sort them out. But how do we know which one is the REAL Pinkie?

The mane 6 quiz the Pinkie Pies in a big montage with lots of silly gags and dialogues, and we end up interviewing one Pinkie Pie who talks about how she thought it all sounded so fun, and oh why couldnt I have just had fun with Rainbow dash at the pond, etc. In other words: what distinguishies the real Pinkie from the others is that the real Pinkie has learned something, and the others have not yet done so.

Twilight zaps the bad Pinkies away.

In the end: Dear Princess Celestia (in Pinkie's Voice): Today I learned that you can't be two places at once. Sometimes there are just too many fun things to do, and not enough you to do them. But we shouldn't spend all our time worrying about what we can't do, and instead focus on worrying about the fun stuff we CAN do. You should never let something going on somewhere else ruin your fun.

* * *

This is a quintessential pinkie lesson that focuses on the most human element of the conflict, but presents plenty of opportunities for the same gags from this episode that we loved.

Instead, we get an episode about how funny all those Pinkies are, and the conflict is merely "what to do with all the Pinkies."

Weak episode, IMO.

If there's a rival con in NY, 6-8k seems optimistic

What about outstate Orioles fans? After their surprising playoff run this year, might that bring in a lot of traffic from outside the city?

I disagree.

That runs completely counter to what the elements are, what they represent, and the power they are supposed to have. I will be disappointed if properly wielded elements ever fail.

He is powerful to single handedly attack an entire city, strong enough to besiege the minds of a thousand crystal ponies, strong enough to win a battle of wills with Cadence, when he breaks through the effects are dramatic and extremely rapid, and he almost won.

Oh yeah, and he could completely nullify shining armor's magic. I didn't even know that was possible.

Can you explain why more is necessary?

Okay, so he beseiges a city. We get to see the sky flash dark a few times.

He depressed ponies. We get to see ponies mope around a little.

Hebattles Cadence 1 on 1. We get to see Cadence's horn shine, and the sky flash a couple times.

He nullifies Shining Armor's magic, but we don't actually see it happen. We get to see a crystallized horn.

These are fine and good, because they build tension. You don't have to constantly see the guy to see his power. But it feels like it's building toward a showdown. Instead, the second we get a good look at the guy, he's vanquished. Everything the heroes had to do was already done, and they did it under the safety of a big glowy bubble.

Even when Twilight faced his enchanment on the door, it was so abrupt that it was immediately apparent it was an illusion. If this was given a couple more minutes (taken away from one of the other filler-ish scenes in these eps), it could have had much more impact than it did.

Every direct sort of encounter with Sombra resolved so quickly, that all of the tension built was kinda wasted.

I thought it was a good ep, just poorly paced. There semed to be a lot of streches where very little was happening. This could easily have been one ep with good edits, or the time from 2 eps might have been better spend developing Sombra.

Mind you, I'm not saying sombra needed a bunch of lines, but it would have been nice to get a more direct taste of his power. Maybe the mae 6 could have brought the elements of harmony, only to see them fail. We're told Sombra is powerful, but I'd like to SEE it.

Which makes for an interesting interpretation of 'A Canterlot Wedding'.

'Stay indoors Twilight Sparkle'

'You can't tell me what to do! You're not my real m0m!'

EDIT:- Does this thing have auto-correct? I've changed that 'u' (in mum) to an 'o' about three times....

As Americans, it is our duty to spell things differently than them. For now, I suggest you spell it m0m.

So...Equestria has two mommies.

HA! Yes!

Still, it is curious that the ponies in that DVD cover image above have "Twinkle-eyes" along with the Twinkle-eye I posted above. Related? You never know. The writers do like to borrow from G1-3 obscura.

We don't need to be catered to. We're already watching the show.

How fascinating! I wonder what is true, and what is speculation?

It's all true, since Faust Herself said it. That is, unless the show displays otherwise.

Pegearthcorn.