Lerian

Double Update- Due to the Magical Forcefield that has been Erected in Canterlot Castle, Creepers have been banished from Equestria.

Buck creepers! Buck them out of Equestria!

Lastly, for titles, I've used up all my thinking juice for the other paragraphs, so darn if I know.

Thinking juice you say?

I think that was what I was getting at with the evil names.... It takes a 'special kind of person (pony)' to genuinely name themselves something nasty sounding. (Look at what some DRC warlords call themselves).

Also I've liked the idea of world conquering 'love me' Cadence since I saw her power....

Liking that idea for Celestia and Luna Tales, it seems a much nicer (ponylike?) way of doing things than my own idea.

Also, obviously blanked out the bit where they mentioned the crystal pony queen, I remember hearing it now you pointed it out but obviously too busy going off on one

Nice headcanon while it lasted though!

Equestria is ruled by Princess Celestia and now Princess Luna in a partnership. The Crystal Kingdom is ruled by Princess Cadence and Prince Shining Armour. It is widely believed/known that the real world reasons are that 'girls love princesses' and 'queens are evil' but what reasoning could there be in world?

Maybe it is a reminder to the Alicorns that, although they are more powerful than the other ponies and that they rule, they are not 'better' than the other ponies. They are not the absolute head. A self imposed title that they reinforce with their subjects. This is then reinforced by individuals who do become too selfish or power hungry, ('I am your queen!', sorry, QUEEEEEEN!), and the society itself calling its bad rulers Kings and Queens and changing their names to reflect their being bad.

Likewise,you have pony naming conventions. Are bad 'uns renamed officially as an acknowledgement of their crimes? 'Princess Luna is dead to us. By Royal decree she will now be known as Nightmare moon.' You are not likely to have Dark Lord Sundrop and no parent is going to look at their child and think, 'Hmmm, Blackshadow evillypants seems to suit them.'

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'Thank you for coming Twilight Sparkle. It seems that Princess Cadence and your brother were corrupted by the shadow crystals of King Sombra and black crystals are spreading throughout the land! They must be stopped!'

'The only way to stop them is to encase them in ice! I....I'm sorry big brother....'

'I love you Twiley'

A THOUSAND An indeterminate number of years pass

'Thank you for coming Starlight Twinkle. It seems that Queen Mi Amore Cadenza and her King, Clouded guardian have returned from their frozen prison and the Crystal kingdom threatens us once more! Their black crystals are spreading through our land and the dark queen uses her magic to force all ponies seeing them to love her!'

You know, I was re-watching the scene where Sombra gets defeated for the first time, and it doesn't even look like the princesses use the elements of harmony in the first place, which I believe is fairly interesting. Its already been brought up in this thread that 1000 years doesn't mean on the dot, and we absolutely know Celestia and Luna used the elements to beat Discord (heck, that probably goes without saying)

What I'm getting at, is did Celestia and Luna even have the elements when fighting Sombra? If they did, they would have used it, and the cinematic of them defeating the not-so-good-king would have featured the weaponized harmony rainbow, would it not? Honestly, it seems like Celestia isn't really one for taking chances (except when it comes to testing Twilight, it would seem) so I doubt she would have just chosen not to use them, especially after all of the emphasis built around Sombra's evil. So, I reason that he struck before the Elements were found by the princesses, which would technically make him the first villain, chronologically.

I guess that makes Sombra the start of darkness in Equestria. Heck, if that's true, I certainly value him a little more.

I believed that as Sombra was defeated by a multi-coloured wave, in a scene very similar to Discord and NMM though with different colours, that the elements had been used the first time. Then, as others have pointed out, it would have been worthless to bring them a second time as he was already the shadow that he had been turned into the first time.

Band you say?

"You weren't willing to risk the future of the citizens of the crystal empire in an effort to guarantee your own. Far better that I have a student who understands the meaning of self sacrifice than one who only looks out for her own best interests,"

Twilight: risks her hearts desire and future to save a group of strangers

Sombra: Enslaves his own subjects in an effort to get his desire

Reaching.....

Twilight is a 'mix' of daylight and nights darkness, you can't have twilight without both.

Sombra - Shadow is a 'mix' of (day)light and (nights)dark you can't have shadow without both.

OMBC! - Sombra was a previous student! Twilight v1.0 !

EDIT:

Name: canno foddah Sombra

"My OC is as good at magic as Twilight Sparkle and was personally taught by Princess Celestia AND Princess Luna and he now rules a kingdom and he is going to take over teh world!!!!!!!!'

Not helping the "That's a canon character?" case, am I?

You know Ginger...it reminds me of one story I heard.

One day, Tex Avery creator of Daffy Duck was at some public meeting (I can't recall what it was about but it matters not). Suddenly one man from the audience asked to have some say. He made complete psychological analysis of Daffy along with listing his mental problems and asked Avery about opinion. To which Tex said "Mister, you propably right. But for me it's just crazy duck."

........Which I think it applies here too.

That may apply to Discord (as a god of chaos) but 'They are just crazy' or 'They are just eeeeevil' is a very poor motivation. It can be used in specific instances and kept rare but, if you're interested, try 'approaching it from the other direction'

Rather than think of the one or two instances where it works think of the criminals, villains and general antagonists where they are given a more complex motivation and imagine that instead it was hand waved as 'they are just mad' or 'well, evil people are like that' or something similar.

I can't comment for others but antagonists having a motivation makes a story, a world or a setting more complete and the more a world is established the more such things have to stay consistent.

In an effort to 'approach it from the other direction' myself.

What would have justified 'he is just evil' to me would be if they hadn't given him the backstory of having once been a mortal unicorn. If he had been introduced as a corrupting influence, a shadow that was trying to enter the world through crystal, a spirit or god of despair it would have personally sat easier. Although we already have Windigo's who freeze ponies and the world by their nature with no other motivation than 'we feed on anger and hatred'.

Heck, "I'm hungry" sits easier than "I'm evil"....

EDIT:- little addition to the stairs conversation... It's a good job Sombra didn't build the outer spire stairs the same way as the inner spire stairs

The mind of an engineer:

Reaction to Twilight hover flying: "cool"

Reaction to Twilight reversing gravity: "cool"

Reaction to Twilight spinning wildly around a helix without getting thrown off into space: "Now wait just a second there. Do physics mean nothing to you?"

Couple of options:-

Could have shown Twilight leaning into the corner (think motorcyclist)

'Pfft, I control gravity! Who says it has to be straight up or down? I'm being pulled upwards but at an angle towards the centre of the spire (or towards the Crystal Heart itself)'

How much history was lost when the Moon palace fell? Look at all those empty frames in S1E2.

Simple greed usually isn't capable of destroying Equestria as we know it, no?

To me it seems a secondary effect rather than active aggression.

To clarify NMM is seeking revenge against or worship from the ponies, she is directly attacking them and bringing about their demise through eternal night. It has to involve them.

(Muahaha, I'ma kill all the ponies)

Discord is seeking to bring chaos to the world and discord to the ponies, it has to involve them.

(Muahaha, I'ma torture all the ponies)

Chrysalis and hive are seeking a food source that consists of the ponies, it has to involve them.

(Muahaha, I'ma eat all the ponies)

Sombra is gathering as much crystal as possible with a slave workforce. He is using his own population and while the effects are felt across Equestria it is not his active intent. He is gathering crystal and would do so if it affected Equestria quickly, slowly or didn't affect Equestria at all.

I'm not denying he is evil, enslaving a population and not caring what you do to the surrounding world and population are certainly not good acts but the evil is not as apparent, 'in-your-face' if you like, as the previous three antagonists who were directly attacking.

"Why were there so few designs of cutie marks for the crystal ponies"

As they were slaves for X years perhaps only certain talents were common or were allowed. (Useless talent? no more food for you!)

Corn - Farm

Bow - not sure (if human I'd say hunter especially being further north but omnivorous ponies is no so...)*

Castle thing - Builders

Fleur de lis - Not sure (Taking care of children, with relevant implications)

Also from Wikipeadia - In Mauritius, slaves were branded with a fleur-de-lis.

*EDIT:- two ideas, hunters of meat for the pointy toothed, Carnivorous King Sombra? Hunters of ponies who escaped?

Maybe after world destroying perma-night (NMM), world altering chaos (Discord) and civilisation destroying emotion eating Hive minds (Chrysalis & changelings), simple greed is too petty a motivation for a villain to have? (For some)

Maybe as has been said, the idea of slavery is too 'real' and therefore scary for the target audience?

Also, play the scenes with the slave ponies and the marching orcs from LOTR films and listen, shout out? Hint at Sauron likeness?

Sorry, Lerian, I just can't see this happening

No problems at all . Maybe it will kick my flank into trying a fic rather than only RP's....

I would love to get involved but would only be able to make 3 weeks in 5 due to shift patterns

Fantastic idea though and I wish you luck

It can be really fun when you get used to it and if you can get past the interface.

Some help

Get dwarf therapist to help with orders/tasks.

There's a pony wiki for that

Nip to step 3 or 4 for design ideas

Once you are used to it, try the pony mods for extra fun

I think it's supposed to be pop-idol Rarity

Pop idol? Pfagh!

*Goes back to live in warm cocoon of headcanon*

All credit here!

Will have to be link only as I have run out of upload bytes!

Thank you and it's absolutely fine if it doesn't happen. My mind is busy going off in 'New gaming sourcebook mode' as it always does when we get lore heavy episode(s)

it says "One pony will discover her true destiny" with Twilight dead center performing some magic. So there is definitely something big planned to happen over the course of season 3 that may have been planned from the very beginning.

Said it before and I'll say it again....

Implied Alicorn Twilight is best Twilight!

No way infinity symbol is coincidence.

Hearts and Hooves day was first celebrated in place of the Crystal Fair to keep the spirits of love and unity going in hte Crystal Empire's absence

Very nice ideas! Especially the link to the existing love festival

EDIT:- Oooooooooh, headcanon timeline.

Time of Discord

Discord defeated but the sisters are weakened/new and don't take to ruling

Time of harmony, peace and love prospers as all races are happy to be free of Discord.

At some point in this period the sisters take to ruling a few lands/small area, aiding harmony as they embody all pony tribes.

'Minor'/individual acts of selfishness creep in, this is when the love poison incident happens.

Events in Motion paradox' post.

Without the inlfuence of the crystal kingdom more selfishness and paranoia creep in.

The build up to Hearths warmiing eve incidents, fighting and windigos. The sisters during this time are too weak or have too little influence to prevent it.

The end of Hearths warmimg eve story and the newly harmonious tribes join the smaller lands of the sisters to make Greater Equestria, adopting their flag.

And that's how (headcanon) Equestria was made!

An idea for 4x style games (e.g. Civ, Age of Wonders, Sword of stars etc)

Spoilered because Season 3 influence

While thinking about the way King Sombra spread his influence, choice, randomly or attracted to despair, that last one jumped out and then I randomly thought about playing it. No idea if it will be hard, easier or indeed unplayable so here goes:

For all instructions add 'if the game options allow it'

Start the game, fog of war off so you can see world from the get go.

Choose an evil kingdom, bonus points if have dark or mind control magics/technology, can use slavery etc.

(Change profile pic to Sombra!)

Run your empire as evil, greedy, slave owning and expansionistic. Expand quickly (greedily) into unclaimed space you don't HAVE to start a war to get your second city/colony.

When it comes time to expand beyond empty space, choose a single city/colony anywhere on the map, randomly or bonus points if you can select the most unhappy city in the world. That is your conquest point, you are 'attracted' to the despair in that city and will not stop until it is yours! You can attack units and fight in self defence but you can only attack that city (have to) or any city that lies in a direct line (this can be a choice if you don't want multiple nation wars/how hard you want to play).

When you own that city you enforce the evil you can, enslave rather than destroy/genocide and then use the same method for selecting your next target.

That's not to say you have to fight in lines, if future targets lie between your cities, you can approach it from multiple directions.

Bring despair to the land/world/universe!

Speaking of dark magics, live thread, LIIIIIIIVE! Muahahahaha!

While thinking about dark magic and going off on one had an idea or scenario. I know it's new season and we don't have much canon information about the situation but would you look at creating a story around the following idea?

Was dark/mind control magic perhaps originally only known by Alicorns? Queen Luminosity(?) was happily married to the good king, formerly Prince, Sombra as part of an alliance with the unicorn kingdom. Her subjects loved them unconditionally and worked for the betterment of the crystal kingdom, that love and hope filling the crystal heart and spilling over the land. She taught the magic of focussing that love to her husband and they ruled together. Sadly, king Sombra succumbed to the greed and gem hunger that afflicted so many of his unicorn kin and this corrupted the ability to focus unconditional 'giving' into the ability to dominate and take love/hope/joy. Queen Luminosity attempted to stop him but was unable or unwilling to harm her husband or use her magics in such a way. Perhaps she simply was not strong enough against his stolen power.

A story about the fall of the Crystal Empire essentially. Apologies if too big a request, too close to show canon etc.

hi hi

I'm trying to figure this episode out here. I keep hearing people saying that this is, like, their favorite episode ever and I'd like to find the missing piece to the puzzle.

Why did they act like weird robots? The moment they saw the fair, they instantly and magically transformed. Did they just not have any other forms of entertainment? Did they not enjoy each other's company, so that friendship and being together wasn't enough to lift their spirits? What did they do for the rest of the year when the fair wasn't open?

Speculation/idea:

It may be that all other forms of entertainment were taken from them, literally or 'mentally'.

"I can't seem to remember anything before King Sombra came to power and I don't want to remember anything about the time he ruled over us." - My entire culture has been painfully removed from my mind, it causes me more pain to try to remember it. My entire mind/memory is only filled with my time as a slave so I don't want to think about that. I have no cultural identity, memory of joy/hope, no memory of friendship, of social interaction* or even an idea what a pleasant experience might be.

Hope can be an incredibly bizarre thing. Imagine a scene where a person has been trapped on a desert island for a long time, they are despondant, don't have the strength or will to do anything other than survive day to day when.... Is that a plane? Insti-hope!

Also, on the idea of illusionary test or 'trollestia' as put forward by various posts.

"The Empires magic is powerful, it cannot fall again my sister"

A comment and conversation held between the sisters with nopony else present.

^Getting further into speculation here, I have no idea of the social conditions of their slavery.

Specifically, the 'dark magic' used by Sombra, Celestia and Twilight in the dual episode.

A discussion of some possibilities, beliefs, headcanons and hopes for the (canon!) dark magic shown most recently.

In show the dark magic seems to be concerned mainly with mental manipulation. Domination, causing fear and despair etc rather than actual damage/physical harm. I can't remember the game or story but I remember seeing a similar attitude elsewhere. Harming someone with magic wasn't such a big thing, akin to and receiving the same punishments as using a weapon against someone. Using mental manipulation on someone was a whole lot worse, harsher punishments, automatic assumption of harmful intent and so on. *cough* want-it-need-it spell *cough*

Is dark magic intent based? Using your magic, for example to harm in self defence, would give it your own aura but acting with malicious/selfish intent would give it a darker aura and be considered 'dark magic'

Was it perhaps originally only known by Alicorns? Queen Luminosity was happily married to the good king, formerly Prince, Sombra as part of an alliance with the unicorn kingdom. Her subjects loved them unconditionally and worked for the betterment of the crystal kingdom, that love and hope filling the crystal heart and spilling over the land. She taught the magic of focussing that love to her husband and they ruled together. Sadly, king Sombra succumbed to the greed and gem hunger that afflicted so many of his unicorn kin and this corrupted the ability to focus unconditional 'giving' into the ability to dominate and take love/hope/joy. Queen Luminosity attempted to stop him but was unable or unwilling to harm her husband or use her magics in such a way. Perhaps she simply was not strong enough against his stolen power and king Sombra ruled until beaten by the sisters (and the elements of harmony?) Maybe Shining armour and Twilight need to be careful what they wish or ask for...

Perhaps 'Dark' magic is a name only and it is not the same as 'evil'. I.e. as a magic that can only be used to harm, there is no known way to use it in a positive way and it is considered 'dark' magic but it is accepted that the ruler, soldiers and specialists would have knowledge of it. It is however frowned upon and treated suspiciously if a 'civilian' knows how to do it (Akin to telling a blind date that you have a knife collection, not illegal but probably brings about a quick excuse to end the evening)?

Mortals can have an odd understanding of history and once something moves from something I saw to something grandpa saw to something someone in the family saw to... you get the idea. Say 4 generations per century, 40 generations of mortal separation to the actual events.

Additionally when something becomes legend it loses its connection to reality thus may not be considered a real event or a real threat.

As a real world example, what would happen if I approached the police or indeed the Prime Minister or Queen saying/yelling that St Georges day was not just a celebration, it was a reflection of real events and not only that dragons were returning to bring about the end of man?

Maybe the crystal kingdom, as all trace of it was erased was (wrongly) thought never to have existed?

'We found another trade record from the Unicorn lands to the "Crystal kingdom"'

"Another one? How didn't they notice that much fraud/tax evasion/money laundering taking place?"