teygrim

I strongly disagree. The whole episode revolved around Twilight helping Luna change her ways so that she may be more socially acceptable in modern times but the writers just gave up and pretended that there was no problem in the first place. I'm just not satisfied that, in a show about friendship, the resolution is that Luna just needs to get over being singled out and ostracised because everyone else is enjoying themselves. Again, I don't disagree. It's not the morals that I have an issue with; it's the storytelling. If this was about taking responsibility, then the episode should have focused on Rarity but, instead, Sweetie got more screen time. A responsibility moral would have worked much better in this episode, but I felt that the writers were trying too hard to push a compromise message that just didn't exist in the actual episode.

I agree with you 100% and I think that this episode should have been about responsibility but instead they tried to make it about compromise. Just look at Apple Jack's little speach. She says that sisterhood is about "give and take" and that Rarity was taking much more than she was giving. This isn't really evident in the episode, because Rarity wasn't "taking" what Sweetie was trying to offer, she was just ignoring her and trying to keep her out of the way. I just don't feel that the lesson matched the conflict. I think that they should have either made the lesson about responsibility or, if they wanted to keep the lesson, then have the episode resolve with a compromise between both ponies not just a change in Rarity.

I have a couple of suggestions. First off: "It was a dark and stormy night. Well, not so much dark and stormy, really more twilight and cloudy. Oh, and it was morning too. In fact, scratch that, let me start over." Delete that. I get the joke, but this doesn't belong at the beginning of the story. You need to draw your reader in but I think you create distance between your story and your reader by creating a word picture and then telling the reader to disregard it. Plus, it creats a sense of mistrust because it communicates to the reader that the descriptions which follow may also be false, or part of a joke (which they aren't, making this sentance really stick out like a sore thumb). Another thing is the change in mood, or lack thereof. I think you're just missing a sentance or two towards the beginning. You describe a lift in spirits when Pinkie's song is played but I don't think you established the mood created by the meloncholy song. I think you just need to describe a depressed mood in the patrons of the coffee shop (or even disinterest) in response to the more depressing song so that there is a contrast to the reactions to Pinkie Pie's song. Other than that, I think you did a pretty good job. My points may seem minor, but I feel they would make a big difference so I hope you consider them. And please don't take my comments personally; I am only trying to help.

Oops, my bad. ___ But on another note, has anyone else been disappointed with the resolutions of the past two episodes. I mean, last episode, Luna only wanted to be accepted but, in the end, she just had to accept that she was feared and ostracised because it amused the Ponyville folk (ie the episode ended in the same place it started). And for this episode, Rarity had ligitimate complaints but they were completely ignored. Personally, I would have gone mental with some of the things Sweetie did but she was very mature and held herself back. I understand that Rarity needs to lighten up but I think there also needs to be boundaries. And the lesson about "compromise" isn't very effective when the writers decide that only one person needs to make a change.

It was well done overall, but I don't know what Rarity's parents were doing in the episode. Rarity makes a big deal about their one week stay and then the writers forget about them for the rest of the episode.

I'd say that would be the case. A lot of people don't even know how holloween started. Imagine how hard it would be to remember the origins of a yearly tradition after a thousand years.

I would say that the statue of Nightmare Moon was built before she was banished to the moon. I assumed that Nightmare Night was a long standing tradition based on the fear of Nightmare Moon's returns. I figured that the celebration had gone on for so many years that Equestria didn't even think to cancel it after Nightmare Moon's defeat.

That usually doesn't matter. Most scifi shows that use a similar tactic for kids already have the kids on board as well. I don't think it ever really works but it sounds good in a board room. I don't think so. Zecora explained it well enough to ALL the children while Pinkie tagged along. The exposition scene didn't need him at all.

Agreed. I think his role could have been easily and more effectively played by one or all of the CMCs. And because this episode wasn't about him; we have no chance to find out anything about him and his personality. If you don't know a character then you don't care what they have to say, so I felt that he was just an annoying distraction. It makes sens that Hasbro is trying to appeal to male audiences, but I think that their making the same mistake as a lot of other franchises make. Just because his male, doesn't mean that males will automatically identify with him. You see a similar thing in scifi with the annoying kid character that gets introduced when the creators realise that a lot of kids watch their show. But, in the end, this show is about selling toys, so you have to expect some arbitrary characters and vehicles to be shoehorned into the script.

Well, I'm glad they toned down the ridiculous of the animation, and this episdode does give me hope for the future but, for some reason, I found it kind of underwhelming. I think it might be because the point of the episode was to introduce a minor character and not much else. But, for what it was, it was perfect. I really liked their version of Luna and I think she contrasts perfectly with Celestia.

I think you might have something there. The funny thing is that when I think back on this episode I remember it to be good but when ever I actually watch it, I'm too busy cringing to actually enjoy it. It's definitely possible that Twilights inhuman expressions have contributed to my inability to empathise with her in this episode.

@kal423 This is harder to explain than I thought it would be. My problem was not with the theme of the episode or anything in the episode itself. My problem was with how the characters were portrayed. As I said before, they were reduced to their most basic elements and exaggerated into cartoons of themselves. Instead of Twilight being character who is a nerd she is just a nerd. I feel they have removed her identity and replaced it with a stereotype. Twilight may have been a nerd, but never to the extent dipicted in the most recent episode. Here it is literally a disorder. Thankyou, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Now that would have made better conflict. I wish they let Twilight worry about this, a real and understandable concern, instead of a silly and comedic imaginary concern.

I don't know about that. I think the focus was clearly on Twilight. It's just that she was written in such a way that made her so unrelatable that you're inevitably more empathetic with everyone else. As an aside, Ticket Master was one of my favorte episodes. I think it was genius the way they outlined everyone's distinct personality through the way the characters tried to convince Twilight to give them the ticket. You have a point. I guess my real problem was not so much the over-the-top-ness of the episode but more the extreme oversimplification of Twilight and Rarity. Twilight was alway neurotic but here, she is so neurotic that she is completely unrelatable from start to finish. I can relate to someone who likes to be organised, I can relate to someone who is a perfectionist. I can't relate to someone who writes a list to write a list to write a list and I can't relate to someone who evens out the icing on cupcakes until there is no icing left AND doesn't see anything wrong with what she had done (why didn't she just ask Mrs Cake to take away the 13th cupcake, it would make much more sense if she just wanted to divide the cupcakes evenly among her and her friends). My point is that, instead of being a flawed "human" that has been pushed to breaking point, she is just a generic crazy person from the start. I know it doesn't make much difference to most people who watch this show, and it might sound like nitpicking but, for me, it is the difference between watchable and unwatchable.

That's kind of what I meant. I could see her work in there but the final product felt like someone elses. Think of a movie that is based on a book. The movie can be very different to the book and the authors intentions but it is undeniably based on the authors work. That's what this episode felt like to me, and that is why it has caused me so much concern. I can't help but feel like this episode would have been subtly but significantly (to me at least) different to what we got if Faust was as involved as she was in Season 1. PS. I don't really know the ins and outs of the studio's functioning so Faust may well be as involved with this episode as she was with every other. This is all based on rumour but my concerns still stand.

I guess that makes sense. Maybe the animators just wanted to go wild and the writers let them do what they want. That would explain the unnecessary sonic rainboom and why Twilight started to teleport every two seconds after not teleporting at all for the past twenty-four episodes. I hope you're right.

I will, but I worry that the change is because of Faust's reduced role in the series. All the same elements are in the episode but the way they are put together is just SO different. It just feels like new people are working from Lauren's notes and creating an entirely new show. If this is the case then no amount of time will change things because Lauren is not coming back. Like I said, it's not a bad episode, it's just different. Too different for me because they've left out the reason why I watched the show in the first place: the characters. I loved the show because the characters were believable and relatable, but in this episode they were just goofy and funny. I worry that this may be the new status quo for the rest of the series but I hope, for my sake, that I'm wrong.

I know I havn't posted here in a long while but I've been really feeling down after watching the latest episode (lesson zero) and I was wondering if anyone else is starting to have doubts about Season 2. I don't think it's a bad episode but I was cringing throughout. I think this episode was all about the laughs where earlier episodes were more about people. It worries me to see such exaggerated dipiction of the characters I have grown to love and it depresses me to think that this is the future for FiM. I'll try to explain through example. Take Rarity, for instance. At first, I like many other viewer saw her as the annoying, fashion-obsessed, drama queen, but as I watched the first season I came to realise that she was much more than that. I watched learned of her ambitions and watched her struggle and triumph. I soon realised that I had stereotyped her and the show taught me a lesson without having to say a word. All of that went out the window with Episode 3. Rarity IS the annoying drama queen I had stereotyped her to be. All for the sake of a gag, Rarity screams and catastaphises the most insignificant of inconveniences. Then there's the story structure. In Season 1 there was a build up before the climax. In Season 2 (well Episode 3 at least) things are ridiculously over the top from start to finish. Remember in "Party of One" when Pinkie Pie began to notice her friend's evasive behaviour and began to grow suspicous and eventually paranoid. When she jumped to the conclusion that her friend's don't like her anymore and had Spike confirm it, it felt natural that she would crack. Here Twilight is plain nuts right out of the gate. I know it kind of makes sense because she is so neurotic, but in Season 1 she always kept her cool until she got backed into a corner. When she found out that Fluttershy had kidnapped Celestia's phoenix she formulated a plan immediately and, when the guards came to the door, she improvised. Again, I don't think that the writers gave the character enough credit but more importantly, I think they wrote themselves into a corner from the get go. I don't think Twilight should have been catastrophising at the start of the episode because it doesn't give the writers anywhere to go. The worst case scenario can't be topped so I don't think you should begin with it. Everything was just so over the top and the characters were reduced to "cartoons" of their former selves. What I mean by "cartoon" is that they took a single trait of each character and exagerated it to a ridiculous degree. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just a completely different show. Like I said before, this is a show about laughs and not about the characters. I know that a lot of people like this new season so far, and I don't think for a second that my differing tastes are some how supperior to everyone elses. I just want to know if anyone else has similar misgivings. I'll always be greatful to the creators for Season 1 but it hurts to find out that the show I loved so much might have turned into something that I can't enjoy.

@Systemdertotem That makes sense, though, personally, I prefer a story that I can relate to. Being sliced up while your still alive so that a maniac can use your flesh to make cupcakes is just something that I've never had to deal with so it doesn't really appeal to me. As for the main topic, I've actually got a proper answer now. My favorite fanfic is Rejection by Hawksyu (http://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/03/s ... ction.html). Although I felt the ending was a little rushed, I never expected fanfiction to be THIS good. After I read it my eyes started watering, and I thought that it must have been because I was tired but I later realised that I was actually crying. This story has convinced me that fanfiction is worth my time.

Just read cupcakes yesterday and I have to say that I was a little disappointed. Everyone was going on and on about how bad it was but it seemed like fairly standard horror stuff to me. I will admit that I thought that Pinkie Pie was kind of adorable with her sillyness though. @Systemdertotem I'm curious as to what you enjoyed so much about it, if you care to share. As I've said, it seems like fairly standard stuff to me. EDIT: before anyone jumps to conclusions about me I should probably explain myself. The reason why I was unaffected in any emotional way by the story "Cupcakes" was because I didn't believe the reality it was presenting. I felt that Pinkie's psychosis was a stereotype of what writers think that psychosis is and not a reality. I have to believe something to be moved by it so, to me, the story was just a silly time-waster.

@Ginger Mind The best way I can think to explain status is the amount of influnce an individual has on other group members. The source of this influence can come from an institutional framework that is artificially applied to a group (eg the military) or from a naturally developing respect that's based on the interactions of group members. I think Fluttershy is at the bottom of the hierarchy because, although she has proven her value to the group in such episodes as "Dragonshy", I feel her submissive and soft spoken nature has lead her friends to often overlook her and take her for granted. She can't have very much influence on her friends if they ignore her when she speaks which they often do. @BlackFang You might be right, but I'm not sure about the examples you gave. Although Fluttershy saved the day in "Dragonshy", she was still part of Twilights plan and Pinkie was operating outside the group in "Swarm of the Century". So I would still classify Twilight as the leader of the group in both episodes.

@Ginger Mint I think you misunderstand me. There is more than one kind of status hierarchy. I'm talking about the one that occurs naturally and not the one that is enforced. It is all consentual and it stays stable because they care about each other. It is based on individual knowledge, skills, talents, likability, and everything else you've mentioned and not formal structure. It's a means of effective cooperation, not domination, and it is closely tied to the role each character plays in the group. As for Flutter Shy, you say "Fluttershy never gets anyone to help her with her problems if she can help it, but she's always helping out her friends because it is something that she personally wants to do, and its not just because she's on the bottom of the totem pole" and you're absolutely right. It's not becaus she's on the bottom of a status hierarchy that she behaves in a kind but submissive way, it's the other way around. Flutter Shy is at the bottom of the status hierarchy BECAUSE of the way she behaves. This is what I mean by consentual. I don't think we really disagree on anything here. I think we're just talking about different things.

As much as we'd all like to believe that we can be all equal, I don't think you can have a group that doesn't have a stutus hierarchy. Different people have different abilities which have, in turn, a different level of importants to the longevity of the group. For example, I think the Mane Six would suffer more as a group if they lost Twilight than they would if they lost Flutter Shy. In Western Culture we highly value equality so we learn to ignore the status hierarchy, but it still exists, even if we don't see it. Rarity is actually my least favorite character of the Mane Six, but I think that she understands stutus hierarchies better than anyone else, so I felt it reasonable to assume that she would know how to place herself highly in her own. Her dresses alone are enough to bring her respect from outgroup ponies. Remember in "Green is not Your Colour" when Flutter Shy publicly humiliated herself and Rarity brought the jeering crowd into momentous applause because they noticed her excellent fashion sense. The rest of what you say I agree with, and you make a very good point about Apple Jack. Although, I wouldn't exactly call her wise, she does enforce the common sense of the group. She seems to model the ideals of the group more closely than any of the rest and she seems to be the one to enforce those ideals when someone steps out of line. Maybe she is number 2 afterall.

I've been thinking about this for a while now and I was wondering about everyone elses thoughts on the roles and status of the mane six. What role does each individual characacter play whithin the group and what is the status hierarchy of their group. Here's what I've got so far: ROLES Twilight: Task Oriented Leader (a leader who gets things done) Rarity: Group Liaison/Status Optimiser (is concerned with what outgroup members think of them. Rarity does what she can to make the image of the Mane Six as possitive as possible) Apple Jack: The Muscle (the means to get things done) Rainbow Dash: The Muscle (the means to get things done) Pinkie Pie: Socio-emotional Specialist (maintains group morale) FlutterShy: Omega (I really don't know. She rarely speaks up so she's often ignored. I guess someone's got to be on the bottom of the totem poll, and FlutterShy fits the bill While I have given Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash the same social role, I want to make it clear that I think that they are very different characters and play the role in a very different way. Apple Jack is all about helping others before herself and Rainbow Dash is the exact opposite. In other words, I think AJ is very other-oriented and RD is very self-oriented. I do feel that they play the same role in the group and I think that this is the main source of their (friendly) rivalry. They compete to prove who's better at filling the role of "The Muscle". STATUS HEIRARCHY 1 Twilight 2 Rarity 3 Apple Jack 4 Rainbow Dash 5 Pinkie Pie 6 FlutterShy I think that when it comes to status, Twilight is quite clearly at the top as a leader should be and FlutterShy is quite clearly at the bottom as an omega should be. While socio-emotional specialist is usually a high status position, I feel that Pinkie Pie ranks quite low in the group because everyone has such a hard time relating to her or even understanding her. While everyone listens to Pinkie more often than FlutterShy, they often dismiss what she says as random or "just being Pinkie Pie". Rarity, Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash are much more ambiguious and I'm not so sure of my ranking of these three. Because Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash play the same role in my role classification, I think that they should be very close on the status heirarchy. Though, I'm sure many will disagree with me, I put Apple Jack above Rainbow Dash because I feel she embodies the social identity of the group with her other-oriented nature more than the self-oriented competitor. Initially, I had Rarity under Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash but I think that my personal preference for AJ and RD biased this decision. Status should be determined by what the ponies think of each other and not what the fans think. And, while I think the fandom respects AJ and RD more than Rarity, I think Rarity is more respected within her group. So what do you guys think. I'm still not sure about all this and I think that alternate views might help me figure it all out.

@Ginger Mint Fair enough. You sound like a pretty smart guy, and I'm impressed that you know a bit about psychology, but I think you believe in Celestias goodness only because you want to believe (which is definitely your right). When I read your comments I can't help but think of Pinkie Pie trying to rationalise Gilda behaviour in "Griffon the Brush off". I know that at least one of my friends, who's into all that fancy stuff, would be absolutely devastated if of the formal events she attended turned out the way the Gala did, and I don't think she'd see a bright side to it for a very long time. But heck, who's to say what happens off screen; you're interpretation is just as valid as mine.

@Ginger Mint I find that really hard to believe. The Gala crowd just didn't seem at all like the kind of crowd who enjoy the out of the ordinary. Just look at their reaction to Pinky Pies attempts to make things more fun; they looked far more annoyed than amused. It might have been a great Gala for Celestia but I don't think anyone else enjoyed it nearly as much as she.