Ginger Mint

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Last I checked, Machinima still exists, and continues to make content out of other people's games.

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Or Hasbro could have put in a disclaimer about what constitutes fair use of their IP, which is what a lot of game companies do regarding mods.

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Graft is generally considered to be a bad thing, except perhaps by those participating in it.

They certainly weren't helping to get the stadium built on time, or make sure there was enough food for the spectators or anything like that. The Crystal Empire was essentially ready for the games when the mane six arrived. Win or lose, honest competition is about learning and showing what you are capable of, but unless "being in good standing with a Princess and The Princess's personal protege," or "the ability to give exclusive treatment to regulatory agencies," is on the list of qualifications for hosting the games, nothing they were doing was highlighting the Crystal Empire's capability to host the games.

When you're in a direct competition, one side has to lose the competition. Rainbow Dash of all ponies should know this, which makes her motivation of not having foals feel sad -that she doesn't even know- totally incomprehensible. They could have let Rainbow Dash state that the Crystal Empire was her preferred team, and that the strength of the other teams was motivating her to do an even better job herself, but that was not the case. They could have explained how the process was fun, and that they were going to have fun helping their friends in an honest competition, but they focused on the end result rather than the journey. They could have explained that they wanted to showcase what the Crystal Empire had to offer, but they completely left the Crystal Ponies out of it. (What is more satisfying, accomplishing something yourself, or having someone else swoop in and do it for you? Rainbow Dash isn't a part of the Crystal Empire, in fact, she left as soon as the welcome was over.)

There's nothing wrong with a good natured rivalry, but they framed the idea as if they were trying to prevent disappointment all together, ignoring what typically makes a rivalry a good thing.

(I'm not entirely sure what you mean Dessa... there's Positive Reinforcement, as showcased by operant conditioning. There's also Misattribution of Arousal -the technical kind, alertness and awareness, not the romantic kind- which deals with how people who are feeling excited about one thing are more likely to think other things are exciting too.)

In other news, the winged shoes on the mail pony were totally awesome, and I want a pair.

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If Ponykart is smart, they'll take down every bit of public information they can until they are ready to release it.

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Its true, the Dash splat was the single best part of the entire episode.

I also thought that Pinkie Pie's dramatic "Yes," was pretty good, although I get the feeling for some reason that Pinkie Pie is a lot less cheerful in general lately.

Perhaps the message of the episode would have rang a little more clearly if, after Harshwhinny got splashed or whatever, one of the crystal ponies had walked up and helped her out? I dunno.

There is a huge difference between remaining calm and collected and assuming everything is going to be fine with no worries. Assuming that everything is going to be fine can lead to all sorts of disastrous results. I've known a few people in my days who latch onto the first idea that seems to make sense and never bother to look more carefully. It makes sense, and it made sense first, therefore it must be the single correct answer. This, of course, causes a number of mistakes to happen that could have easily been avoided. (Like the time my friend was looking through the phone book to call the hospital, didn't see the correct entry, and decided that hospice must be the number because its sounds pretty much the same. I had to bite my lip to not give 'em a hard time about that one.)

How might they have shown this in the episode? Perhaps if they'd included a scene where Twilight does her little breathing thing and calms down, but remains firm and contradictory. Or if she were to calm down, and not go with the first course of action that comes to mind. Maybe if she had thought up several courses of action and compared them against each other calmly to figure out which one was best.

Meanwhile, in Cloudsdale...

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I'm not gonna lie... I made it about halfway through the episode and found myself wanting to skip ahead to find out what the heck was going on. Nothing made sense, and I ended up stopping the tape and walking away for a few hours before getting myself psyched up to go back and try it again.

From the outset, I just didn't get what the premise of the episode was supposed to be. They want to have the Crystal Empire host the games, and they say there is a good reason for it, so why is it in doubt? Is it a competition? If it is a competition, aren't they giving the Crystal Ponies an unfair advantage? Why not just decree that the Crystal Empire should hold the events, if the reason is that good?

Dash says its humiliating to get passed up, but if the Crystal Empire does host the games, then some other place is going to get passed up. Do those other ponies not count for some reason? What about their problems, what about their little fillies who are going to get the monotone announcer letting them know that the games are being held in the Crystal Empire, because they weren't good enough to get the elements of harmony's endorsement? What about all their hard work?

"The friendship is more important than the competition."

"When meeting with important guests, it was tradition for rulers of the crystal empire to weave crystals into their manes in a very specific way."

Wait... what? Why is this important? The Royal Canterlot Voice was tradition too, but nobody went bending over backwards to continue that one. Do the other potential towns have to have a traditional mane style? How can you judge two towns based on something that has nothing to to with the games itself, especially when the rubric for grading is not the same for each one? Why couldn't Rarity just do something she was good at? Is her special talent for making avant garde designs not good enough?

And shouldn't a judge or inspector be impartial and unbiased? I mean, she got to see that nobody really cared about her or anyone that wasn't "specially important," and her supposed unvarnished tale from the not-games inspector was a tale of special treatment, even if it was for the wrong person. It just goes to show how biased their treatment in general was.

I'm just thankful that once the not-inspector mare was introduced, the episode finally started to make some kind of sense, although maybe not in the way the writer intended. Although that was about halfway through the episode, watching everyone mess up actually made me smile, since they were basically trying to cheat the selection process to begin with, I would have been ok with the Crystal Empire not being selected if it were to come down to superfluous niceties and not their actual readiness for the games themselves.

I guess they were trying to make some kind of point about keeping calm and not freaking out, which in my opinion is a great lesson to learn, but I just don't see how Twilight staying calm did any good in this situation. The games inspector wanted an unvarnished look, and so if they hadn't been ready, she would have appreciated it. And if Twilight hadn't assumed everything would be fine, she might have checked to make sure she wasn't suffering from confirmation bias.

The real lesson I got out of this episode, even though it wasn't the one they were aiming for, was: it doesn't make sense to give one pony special treatment, while ignoring others. Everyone has hopes, dreams and feelings. Even if you don't know who or where they are. (If I didn't know any better, I would say that Polsky keeps trying to subvert the message of the episodes he writes, just to see if he can get away with it.)

So in that regard, I give this episode the rank of "So bad, its good."

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The sad part about this is that it will undoubtedly hurt Hasbro's bottom line. The statistics are very clear, this sort of thing only increases brand recognition and increases sales in the long run. I don't know the who or hows, but I suspect the reason that the game got a pass for as long as it did was because someone at Hasbro realizes this.

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Has Twilight Sparkle ever expressed a desire to be a Princess? I know Rarity has...

Actually, come to think of it, they've already established that ponies can marry into royalty. Rarity suggests it in Ticket Master, and then again in The Crystal Empire, we find out that Shining Armor is now a prince, having married princess Cadence. If they do decide to go with the "its something you earn," route, I wonder how they will distinguish royalty that works hard and earns it, and royalty that simply marries someone important.

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I'd be curious to find out just how much collaboration goes on between writers. I know they get their assignments from people who might have an overall plan, but what lengths do they have to go to in order to prevent the specifics of each episode from conflicting with other episodes?

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I was thrilled that Power™ and those that seek it above all else, were exposed as foolish in "Magic Duel." Considering that the show has made a point to promote working together and friendship thus far, if the will to power was to become the focus of drama in the show -like Twilight struggling with her new-found power for instance- it would be a loss for a show that had carved out a special niche to fall into such a mainstream plot. I sincerely hope that does not happen.

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I have seen an awful lot of vitriol, people mind reading and putting words in each other's mouths, name calling and unflattering insinuations about the quality of people's characters and emotional states coming from all sides of this argument, and in my opinion, that is what is really sad about this.

There are a lot of ways this could go horribly wrong, far more ways than could actually happen in 22 minutes, it also has the potential to be pretty neat, in an equally varying number of ways, but at the moment, only the people who've worked on the show know what is going to happen. Since none of us know what is going to happen, everyone's opinions, concerns and feelings on the matter are just as valid.

When it comes to speculation and debate, people are bound to disagree with you, its just the nature of things. That doesn't mean that their hearts are filled with a dark and sinister intent. Some people enjoy speculation. Trying to predict the future can be immensely rewarding, even if you sometimes fail, but there's no reason to be upset with people simply for talking, especially when no one is being forced to listen.

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I don't want to sound like a neighsayer or anything, but just so you know, the "I believe in M.A. Larson," buttons started as a joke, based on the "I believe in Harvey Dent," logo from The Dark Knight. The joke being that

Harvey Dent betrays Gotham City and turns into a villain in the end.

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"...When those elements are ignited by the spark that resides in the heart of us all, it creates the sixth element, the element of magic!" -Twilight Sparkle

"...You have to look past that and learn who they are inside, real friends don't care what your cover is, its the contents of a pony that count." -Twilight Sparkle

"...Well, maybe we were trying too hard. And instead of forcing ourselves to do something that's not meant for us... We each should be embracing our true talents... Comedy!" - Sweetie Belle, Scootaloo and Apple Bloom

"...I used to think the most important traits to look for in a pet, or any best friend, were all physical competitive abilities. But now I can see how short-sighted and shallow that was." - Rainbow Dash

"...I learned that standing up for yourself isn't the same as changing who you are." - Fluttershy

"...now I realize that who I am is not the same as what I am." - Spike

"...Girls are complex human beings, and they can be brave, strong, kind and independent–but they can also be uncertain, awkward, silly, arrogant or stubborn. They shouldn’t have to succumb to pressure to be perfect." - Lauren Faust

I couldn't help but notice this spoiler, but I have to say: I am really curious to see what kind of lesson they can possibly squeeze out of that.

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I don't really understand why people are calling this episode filler. Its an episodic, slice of life show. There are no gaps to place filler into, because there is no continuum to have gaps in the first place.

Vague hints that something might happen, maybe, do not constitute an overarching plot. If anything, the Grand Galloping Gala was a better plot line than, whatever it is that we still don't know about. From the very first moment we heard about the Gala, we knew how each character felt about it and why it was important to them. Whatever nonsense they're doing with Celestia and Luna, or whatever, nobody has any reason to care because none of the characters care or even know about the plot's existence, and therefore it has no consequence on any of their actions thus far.

Spike has historically been both the voice of reason and the devil's advocate, often times simultaneously in the same episode. In Episode 3, The Ticket Master, he simultaneously disregards Twilight's feelings and worries himself with his own desires, while telling her to relax and dispensing the occasional bit of good advice. In Episode 6, Boast Busters, he simultaneously pushes Twilight to stand up for herself and also sink to Trixie's level, along with his misconceptions about wooing Rarity. In Winter Wrap Up, one of the archetypal episodes of Season 1, he is full of bad advice for Twilight, pushing her to use magic when it is inappropriate. In Just for Sidekicks, he continues this tradition by both providing and solving problems.

Ignoring morality or logical paradoxes is not at all how "suspension of disbelief," works. Suspension of disbelief is a function of empathy and/or abstract reasoning that allows us to step out of our own shoes and into someone else's. "Realism," is a word that probably has no rightful place in a discussion about a fantasy world involving ponies, but "plausibility," and "internal consistency," definitely are. By writing a story that does not contradict itself, the audience is able to grant the author the unrealism, because it functions according to its own rules. (Similarly, if I were to tell you that 2 > 5, and 2 < 1, then anyone can agree that 1 > 5, under the rules of this thought experiment. Or if the story takes place in a world where everything falls up, the audience will have a hard time suspending disbelief should a character trip and fall down.)

Twilight's solution to the problem in Too Many Pinkie Pies is a logical paradox in and of itself.

• The problem is that the Pinkie Pies are out of control and causing a mess.

• The solution is to get them into a controlled environment, and banish them if they go out of control.

If the problem is that you cannot control them in the first place, how can controlling them be a part of any rational solution? (To say nothing of the one Pinkie Pie that is already controlled before the test even starts.)

These paradoxes and moral failings not only lessen the message of the episode itself, but they also create an overarching message that is built on a faulty premise. In psychology terms, this is called inoculation, and by presenting an audience with a weak/faulty argument, you make them more likely to believe that the opposite is true.

I suppose that maybe these moral quandaries are a incredibly clever plan by the writers to make a flawed case for bad behavior, so that kids will find fault within the message and believe otherwise. As a historical rule though, I've found that as effective as it might be, this type of counter-cinema is generally unpleasant to watch for its target audience.

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Actually, I'm pretty sure I've written longer posts before and I'm also... *oof* Noes! I am not a changeling! Look, I'll prove it, I'll write a big long post about it. Starting with... uh oh... um. Look over there!

As for Granny Smith, I don't think she was ever planning on telling anyone in the first place. I mean, who is she going to tell that has more authority than herself anyways? It seems to me that she simply wanted Spike to stop, because it wasn't until the ball of pets fell apart that she smiled and walked away.

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Aww come on! You're gonna make me feel bad about liking an episode that nobody else does now, eh?

This was probably the first Spike episode that I actually liked. It had an element of fantasy adventure to it, in the grand tradition of all those movies where kids outwit the grown-ups. Maybe it would have been a good episode for a letter to Celestia to summarize the message, but from what I can gather the message it had was nice. "People don't always earn what they get, but you should try to earn what you do." Not only that, but the lead up to the part where Spike realizes his mistake is gradual and sensible too. Each time he messes up, he gets more and more concerned about the pets and less and less concerned about the gems until he finds himself literally going to the ends of the Earth for Angel Bunny and admitting his mistake. (It was the little things, like Spike dismissing Rainbow Dash's concerns about getting a helmet, but eventually he ends up taking her advice and wearing one.)

The character interactions were also nice, if you ask me, even if it was mostly just Spike and the pets. In some of the other episodes in Season 3, there have been some awkward moments where something big/crazy/striking happens, and nobody even blinks, but this episode had all sorts of little reactions and expression helping to tell the story without needing dialogue.

Spike is always getting left out of different events (remember Twilight's birthday party in Sweet and Elite?) and this time around we actually get to see how he feels about it, and Fluttershy being there to empathize with him was really sweet. It felt like a kind of conversation that I could imagine real friends having.

I also liked how Twilight had (and voiced) legitimate concerns about Spike's readiness for the task, proving that she isn't actually a total idiot, but was willing to give Spike the chance to prove himself anyways.

Also, both Twilight and Rainbow Dash seem to know exactly what Spike is up to at the very beginning, considering that he wasn't being at all subtle, and it shows that they have some level of empathy for him. This is important, because the message of the episode isn't that getting rewarded is a bad thing, its that shirking your responsibilities is. There was nothing wrong with Spike having a big pile of gems that he had carefully saved up in the beginning, but it was a problem that he wasted them without thinking, and then didn't pay attention to the pets.

On the topic of Spike giving the baby phoenix back: A lot of people took issue with the ending of Dragon Quest. I recall a few people accusing Spike of kidnapping, so I gather that without a good explanation for why he couldn't give the little guy back, they went ahead and did. I'm perfectly ok with that, actually.

I liked the parts where Spike is talking with Owlouisciuos and how myself as a member of the audience is actually able to infer what the silly owl is saying. I didn't like Owlouiscious in his debut episode, but I actually liked him this time.

"Has anyone seen tank's head?"

Opalescence did sort of get left out of a lot of scenes, but she did have some good moments, like when she batted Tank on the nose, and decided she approved when he didn't respond. (And then later, she is cuddling with him, and she pushes him out of the way of danger.) And I think they did a lot with what little they had to work with, as far as giving each pet its own personality.

Winona rushing to stand in line and tracking down Angel Bunny made her stand out, but it also reflected on the qualities of her owner. You can expect that Applejack is a dependable owner, Angel Bunny shows how lenient Fluttershy is. (and tells a minor lesson about not setting boundaries for children)

Spike finishing Owlouiscious's sentences was awesome and witty. "Who..." "Is it?"

Spike's random singing.

Rainbow Dash proves that she and Tank are a good matchup through pure, unrestrained adorableness. *nuzzle nuzzle*

Winona howling along with Spike's "whyyyy!?" I don't know if anyone else has heard dogs howl along with fire truck sirens, but its hilarious.

The Cutie Mark Crusaders honestly surprised the heck out of me. They didn't even show up until halfway through the episode, and I thought for sure that they were going to get left behind as soon as they played their part, so when they ended up coming along for the ride, it was kinda neat.

They also did a good job of showing how you can be interested in two things at the same time and still make it work. The Cutie Mark Crusaders did take on the responsibility of watching the pets so they could get their cutie marks which was selfish, but they also actually tried to take good care of them at the same time. If they were more experienced with pet care-taking and didn't mess up all of their cutie mark attempts, I suspect they could have pulled it off. (Which again, helps clarify the message of the episode, in that wanting something isn't necessarily a bad thing.)

Of course it was not without its flaws entirely. Honestly, the inclusion of the Crystal Empire bit was the weakest part for me. (You've always wanted to see it Scootaloo, even though nobody knew it even existed until recently? Really?) They go all the way to the frozen north and back in less than a day? It made the mane six's trip seem like something out of time and space all together. (They hardly seemed like they were gone for much more than a few minutes) And overall I felt that it lessened the seriousness of Spike's responsibility, seeing as they could return at a moments notice.

Zecora did have some rather obtuse rhymes in todays episode, but I still though overall she played a good part. She gave Spike a taste of his own medicine and set a good example at the same time, which is kind of freaky brilliant. (Usually you can only do one or the other.)

Also, Pinkie Pie's "No I love you more," kind of freaked me out, I'm not going to lie.

Anyways... overall, this is -for me- one of the good episodes from this season. It wasn't epic like Sleepless in Ponyville, or Wonderbolt Academy, but it was nice, it was fun, it had smooth pacing, and there weren't any parts where I felt like cringing. Would watch again without reservations.

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I'm confused here, is the assertion that Fluttershy's "Not. Your. Friend." line is a method of gaining trust, or is it not?

Personally, I wouldn't have wanted to be Discord's friend either, from the start. He caused wide spread destruction the last two times he was turned to stone, and the mane six had every reason to want him to be imprisoned for the next 1000 years and beyond.

That Fluttershy tried to gain his trust in the first place is commendable, but if depriving Discord of her friendship was a calculated move to punish him for disobedience and get him to behave, then she was little better than her friends who were planning to punish him by using the Elements of Harmony again. The episode is not clear whether or not that is the case, but there is room to give Fluttershy the benefit of the doubt and assume that she wasn't trying to be cold, calculating and manipulative when she did that.

I have a friend who's wife regularly tells him she is going to divorce him when she gets upset with him. Its a hurtful thing to say, but it didn't take him long to stop taking her seriously, and I'm sad to say, there is not much trust between the two. It is plainly not a good method of getting someone to cooperate, and the only saving grace in this episode is that Fluttershy might not have done so on purpose, and that Discord had never considered it before.

You can only take away your friendship so many times before someone realizes that you're just blowing hot air, and if you make it stick, then they have no incentive to care about making you happy, so it doesn't work as a long term means of correcting someone's behavior.

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Telling someone that you are not their friend anymore is not a trust building technique, it is a bridge burning technique, and it is punitive. That is typically what you do when you're ready to end a friendship and not have trust at all anymore.

Authoritative parenting/mentoring/teaching does involve consistent and fair discipline, but it also demands encouragement. Telling someone that you do not like them anymore is not encouraging. That would be like telling a juvenile delinquent that you are working with, "You're hopeless, and I'm not dealing with you anymore." Its also not consistent, because you can only really do it once. If you end up saying it regularly, it loses all meaning.

When Fluttershy told Discord that his behavior was reckless and that he needed to fix it, that was indicating her disappointment and trying to establish a moral compass, but that didn't work.

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I'm not sure what to tell you Weesh. I cannot read minds, so I don't know what the writers intended, but it seems to me like they were trying to start making Fluttershy's friends seem petty and vindictive for not giving Discord a chance. Getting the audience feeling some sympathy for Discord at the start, maybe.

Considering that up until that point at the end, nobody had any concrete evidence that Discord wasn't just acting the part of a friend in order to manipulate Fluttershy, I had figured that abrupt was their plan.

Perhaps one way they could have smoothed out the transition could have been if Discord had been in the process of gloating, talking about all the ways he'd tricked Fluttershy and how he'd been acting the whole time. In the process of doing so, he stops and realizes that some of those moments were actually genuine. Sort of a "When I said such and such, I was lying, and when I said "such and such," wait... that couldn't have been for real, could it?" That would show that even he was as surprised as the audience at the change.

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If you don't have to boil someone's emotions and opinions down into a single black and white, like or dislike, I think it is safe to say that Pinkie Pie has every reason to be angry with Discord himself. She may have enjoyed the chocolate rain, but he also turned her into a twisted shadow of her former self, made her hate her friends and all the things she used to enjoy.

I realize that they wanted to make the different characters act as a unified, undifferentiated foil to Fluttershy, but Pinkie Pie certainly had some motive to want to see Discord using his powers for good instead of evil, assuming she could forgive him. We saw that she accepted him in the end, at least, but I think it might be interesting to see if she'd forgive him.

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Yeah, that reform spell was pretty dark. Considering how Celestia has been acting this season, I couldn't help but wonder myself exactly how she manages to keep Equestria in a state of peace and harmony...

On the topic of Fluttershy bullying Discord into being her friend by punishing him for disobedience, I would agree that it is a weakness in the story, because it muddies the issue. However, I think its not too unreasonable to assume that Fluttershy hadn't planned for that to happen, and that she was legitimately upset that Discord hadn't agreed to cooperate on his own. Fluttershy never threatened to take away her friendship as a condition of working together, it was Discord who suggested that it was all part of a plan.

I think the episode would have been better if that had been more clear, if I didn't have to wiggle around to reach that conclusion, but at least there is enough wiggle room to do so.

(Also, going along with what Weesh said, it might have been better if, rather than saying she had an important summit to attend, Celestia had said something like "I should go, because my presence will make this more difficult for you." As far as establishing trust is concerned.)

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I'm afraid that looking too deeply into things is just one of the many occupational hazards of being me. (Though I was pretty sure I did go over some of the things that I enjoyed about the episode, like Discord's new personality and how smooth the majority of the pacing flowed.)

After having worked at a newspaper for several years, I'm used to things being reviewed several times by several people in order to catch mistakes, especially when it comes to people accused of wrongdoing. I kinda wish some of the writers would stay up late at night and come up with sinister and misguided messages, if only to lampoon them later.

Concerning children and how they view the world though, I should like to point out some anecdotes. Between the ages of three and six, children begin to understand and use stereotypes. After age six, children start to understand other people's stereotypes, and by first grade, they are able to understand the consequences of discrimination. Also, by the age of seven or eight, children are just as likely as adults to act fairly when distributing resources, in contrast to children ages three to four which are almost universally selfish. Additionally, long lasting misconceptions can take root at ages younger than six. (My kindergarten teacher once told me that "Left was North," and to this day, decades later, I still have trouble getting right and left mixed up. It took me until second grade to realize what she had meant. Although the studies that were done on this subject involved misconceptions about geometry, like "A square isn't a rectangle.")

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Back on topic though, I do have to wonder what 1000 years encased in stone would be like. The Elements of Harmony are remarkably poetic in what they do. (Nightmare Moon wanted eternal night, and she got banished to the moon which, in Equestria, is always on the night side of the world.) Discord wanted chaos (A state of disorder, where others had no control.) and was put into a situation where he had no control at all. Very poetic if you ask me. It was undoubtedly unpleasant for him, but he also seemed to have learned quite a lot while he was imprisoned, so it wasn't like he was in a sensory deprivation tank. He learned just about everything there was to know about the Mane Six, including what each of their elements was about, as well as Celestia's plans. I suspect it would be an awful lot like being in prison, watching the world on TV, but never being able to experience it for yourself.

And thats kind of what happened in this episode. He seemed to know all there was to know about friendship, magic and harmony in his last appearance -having ruthlessly exploited every weakness with clinical precision- but he'd never actually experienced it first hand.

I know some people had issues with Discord's change being too abrupt, and I might have agreed with them if I didn't stop and think about it. Discord is like the paragon of untrustworthiness, and before Fluttershy says he's her friend, he even gives what is effectively a soliloquy about how he is pretending to be nice so he can manipulate Fluttershy. So at whatever point that he actually starts appreciating Fluttershy's friendship, we as the audience have no real way to determine whether it is supposed to be an act or sincere. But at some point, his appreciation of Fluttershy's friendship did become sincere, and perhaps it is part of the lesson that you might not ever be sure when it happens and that you have to give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes.

Also, in other news:

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The Discord from Return of Harmony and the Discord from Keep Calm and Flutter On are two very different characters. I can accept that this Discord was just a careless child, but the old Discord was certainly not. (He was chaotic and quite evil at the same time, and very deliberate in his actions. And Celestia did need to help Twilight to overcome his tricks.) Maybe getting hit by the Elements of Harmony a few times gave him some more time to think about things.

On the topic of tangential things though.

Every time I bring up Cadences love spell, someone inevitably says, "it can only work on/strengthen/remind about love that already exists," as if that makes it better. It does not.

Simply altering existing emotions instead of creating new ones does not change the ethical dynamic. Sometimes emotions can blind people to things that they should be paying attention to, things that if ignored could cause serious problems. Love is generally a good thing, it is true, but it can also cause people to do really stupid things sometimes. People can judge other people's methods of achieving their desires, but nobody has the authority to judge those desires in and of themselves. By "reminding," that couple in the flashback, the spell essentially forced them to reject their current, naturally achieved perspective and replaced it with another. There was no deliberation, there was no acknowledgment that their argument was a mistake, no natural resolution of their dispute, they just instantly changed topics to something completely different. Rather than resolve the conflict, they just ignored the problem and started talking about some "thing" that the stallion supposedly did that was cute. But what is the stallion going to have to go without in order to pay for the spa treatment if he concedes? And conversely, is the mare going to have to neglect her friendships if she does instead? What if someone has a problem with something life or death? Altering their emotional balance could have serious repercussions. I cannot stress enough that manipulate someone's emotions without permission is thoroughly immoral. Simply being a couple does not grant any special rights to the other's mind or body without consent, and even if you have feelings for someone, you still have the right to put your hoof down and say "no." Nor is it a crime to end a relationship that you don't think is working out, regardless of feelings you might or might once have had.

Twilight's reminder spell works because her friends' condition was unnatural. They were forced into that state against their will and Twilight was healing them. Likewise with Nightmare Moon, who was overcome by a dark power.

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If Pinkie Pie's clones were not alive, just echoes and mirrors, without any individuality, there are a number of things that would not have been true.

• They could learn: They didn't know the names of Pinkie Pie's friends to start with, but the real Pinkie Pie was able to teach them.

• They displayed emotion: Pinkie Pie's first clone was presented with a dilemma and broke down in tears by the end.

• They could perceive, and were able to have subjective experiences: First Pinkie Pie was able to relate her experiences from memory in her own words, in a way that was understandable to someone else.

• They were able to reason: First Clone was given an objective, "go to Applejack's barn raising so they could be at all the fun things at once." She observed a conflicting option and was able to infer that she would fail the second clause of her objective, altered her own plan, and was able to explain her reasoning in words to Real Pinkie Pie later.

• They had individuality: If they were all the same, they would have all failed the test simultaneously.

• They had self-awareness: They recognized that they were separate and distinct from other people, including each other, showing off their own abilities to gain recognition; and were able to comprehend the consequences ceasing to exist, when they stopped going fun crazy to participate in the test.

• They had creativity: They were shown to be able to do things that they had never seen before, like making crazy faces. This is one of the hardest things to fake, and one of the strongest indicators of sapience.

• They had the ability to comprehend abstract concepts: IE speech.

Also: Twilight Specifically states that the real Pinkie Pie could be banished by the spell too.

In fact, they understood enough to realize that if they moved, they would get zapped and that it was something they didn't want to happen. Did the real Pinkie Pie display any self-preservation, being real and all?

Can anyone prove that they are indeed alive, beyond all doubt? That they are not just a Chinese Room, or a exceptionally advanced cleverbot? (The answer is no.)

---

In The Crystal Empire, Luna offered to go along with Twilight Sparkle and assist her. Celestia insists that Twilight do it alone, when Twilight was not actually able to succeed on her own in the end. If Twilight had sent Spike away like she originally tried to do, the lives (n. pl. 4. The physical, mental, and spiritual experiences that constitute existence. A manner of living.) would have clearly taken a turn for the worse when King Sombra reclaimed the Crystal Heart and the Empire.

Its a simple logical flaw, that is exposed by denying the consequent.

• Princess Celestia says that when Twilight Sparkle succeeds, they will know she is that much closer to being ready.

• If she already knows that Twilight Sparkle will succeed, she already knows that she is that much closer to being ready.

• If she doesn't know that Twilight Sparkle is that much closer to being ready, then as stated, she wouldn't know for sure that she would succeed.

No matter how you slice it, Celestia was wrong.

---

Discord had been imprisoned before. Discord had been given the option of leaving the ponies alone before. For all they knew, since he was known to be the spirit of disharmony, that getting along with ponies might have made him more miserable than being encased in stone. Encasing him in stone was no more cruel than what he had done to others, but they would have had no way of knowing if the alternative was less cruel. As I said, it would have been better if Celestia had not opened her mouth to explain her reasoning. If she'd kept quiet, I could have happily assumed that she was also concerned about Discord's well being, being trapped in stone and all, but she did explain otherwise.

---

When did Celestia objectify Luna? She's said fewer sentences to Luna than I have fingers on my hands, and I don't recall it ever happening.

• "It has been a thousand years since I have seen you like this."

• "Its time to put our differences behind us."

• "We were meant to rule together, little sister."

• "Will you accept my friendship?" (giving her a choice)

• "Yes. Princess Cadence and Shining Armor are already there. The others will be joining them soon."

• "She will succeed at her task. And when she does, we'll know that she is that much closer to being ready."

---

We don't have to know how magic works in Equestria. All we need to know are the effects, and they explained the effects. Whether it excites alpha and beta particles to inverse the polarity of the aether waves or whatever, the intended result was to take someone who didn't want to reform and would not have otherwise been reformed, and make them so.

---

I've never said that character flaws are a bad thing. I've never said that characters should be perfect, quite the contrary actually. However, in the arena of character flaws, there is a little bit of a difference between killing people and getting upset about losing a game of horseshoes. For me personally, the former character flaw needs to be addressed if I am to continue liking and relating to the character. As long as they realize their problems and are at least trying to succeed, I can continue rooting for them to succeed. If they disregard their problems and don't bother trying to set things right, then I have a much harder time doing so, and eventually they stop becoming a protagonist and shift over to becoming a villain.

It is probably just personal opinion on my part, I know that there are plenty of people that enjoyed cupcakes, but for me, that message ruins any kind of entertainment value the rest of the story might have had.

Celestia herself is something of a special case, because of her role. She is the authority figure in the show, the leader and along with Zecora, the teacher. A being that has ruled the world in peace and harmony for a thousand years. She may not be perfect, but in matters of peace and harmony, she should not be making the mistakes of rank amateurs. The world has seen time and time again that "Protect one's subjects at any cost," is a recipe for bloodshed, chaos, and disaster, while real justice, peace and harmony means providing those things for all. (Perhaps it is fate that tomorrow is Martin Luther King Jr. day in the United States.)

And its not a matter of whether or not characters learn anything from one episode to the next. Normally, I'm a lot more critical about stories when they're non-episodic. You can make people accept just about any premise in a work of fiction, and sometimes the more outlandish and impossible it is the better. Just so long as it doesn't contradict itself.

"The story-maker makes a Secondary World which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is "true;" it accords with the laws of that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed. You are then out in the Primary World again, looking at the little abortive Secondary World from outside."

- J.R.R. Tolkien

Its not like I'm trying to hate on anything.

"It's just you and the audience - hundreds of people - and you've got just one chance, just once chance, to convince them that it's real. There's a magic moment where you can make them believe anything because they already want to. They're there and ready and you just have to take them the rest of the way."

- Ben Cato (Lora Innes)

I enjoy discussing things and I've tried to be fair, but when the discussion covers an issue that I think is false, I am liable to explain why I think it is so, because I think it is important to be honest. Even if it inevitably means I will not ingratiate myself. The latter of which, I guess I'm doing a pretty good job of these days, aren't I?

As for gravy: Gravy is a roux -a mixture of wheat flour and fat, which is traditionally dairy butter but can be vegetable oils as well- mixed with the liquids from cooked meat or vegetables.

There are a number of popular meat free gravies, including chocolate gravy, onion gravy, cream gravy and vegetable stock gravy.

hi hi

Elsporko, the answer is free will. All things being equal, having someone being a productive member of society is better than having them locked in a cage, but things are not equal. Some people may be very productive members of society, but if they don't get a choice in the matter, they are slaves.

If someone doesn't choose to reform their actions, if they are being forced or coerced, that is the foundations of a police state. When people don't internalize the rules, when they are only doing the right thing because they are threatened with punishment, then it becomes necessary to make good on that threat of punishment at all times, in all places. As for why brainwashing someone into being a happy, productive member of society is wrong, well, perhaps a read through A Brave New World, will be enlightening.

hi hi

Well, we already knew that Equestria wasn't the only part of the world all the way back in Bridal Gossip, when Twilight says, "Zebras come from a faraway land," and then later in Over a Barrel and Magic Duel, we see that there are buffalo and large ponies/horses that have their own lands as well.

While I suppose there's nothing that tells us either way, Discord may not have gutted Twilight's books himself. He did have the ability to animate things to do stuff for him, like compelling the beavers to build huge dams, or animating dinnerware to hop and jump around.

Thing is, reforming Discord has nothing to do with making him less chaotic. He could make a ton of choas without harming people.

This is exactly my point. If you go back and look at the old arguments, you will see people making the argument that Discord wasn't evil because he had no choice in the matter. That if he caused suffering because it was his inherent nature, then he couldn't possibly be considered evil. We now know that he did have a choice. However, since he had never had a friend before, nobody knew at the time what would happen.

As for the "reforming spells," I didn't want to touch on this because I was afraid I would end up sounding like a big stick in the mud, but since other people are pointing it out too, I should say my part. The writers of this show have been walking an increasingly disturbing line since the end of Season 2. While I think its fine to have characters mess things up and learn their lesson, it becomes problematic when the characters don't learn their lesson, especially when those characters are authority figures in a children's show.

• Cadence's love spell manipulating the emotions of otherwise free-thinking individuals.

• Princess Celestia betting the lives of the Crystal Ponies by having Twilight go without help.

• Twilight Sparkle killing Pinkie Pie's clones.

• Twilight encouraging Spike's unhealthy dependancy issues.

• Celestia treating Discord as an object with which to cast spells, rather than a sentient being.

• Twilight Sparkle trying to find and cast a reforming spell.

Some of these things I just cant explain away, and believe me, I've tried to find a way. Generally, such methods are considered to be corrupt and immoral. If someone is dangerous to society, then society has some rights to lock them away for safekeeping, but such a society still has a responsibility to maintain some very basic rights for those imprisoned. (Once upon a time, I dared to think that it was only in the darkest recesses of authoritarian hearts that dreamed of brainwashing others into obedience.)

That being said, if the ending had acknowledged how Celestia and Twilight had been wrong, I think this episode could have been truly phenomenal, in terms of the moral of the story. (It might have been better if Celestia had just not opened her mouth at all, and left her reasoning unexplained.)

Twilight and company try to reform Discord the wrong way throughout the entire episode, and that turns out to be an excellent contrast to Fluttershy's methods. By doing it the wrong way, they help emphasize what is right about Fluttershy's methods. In many places, contractual agreements are considered null and void if the person who signed the agreement was forced to do so under duress. Telling Discord that he had to behave or else they would zap him again would not have produced any kind of meaningful agreement at all.

This is one of the fundamental flaws in authoritarianism that is being put on display for everyone to see, and so the only real downside is that the ending didn't make that more clear.