Role and Status of Mane Six

[teygrim]

I've been thinking about this for a while now and I was wondering about everyone elses thoughts on the roles and status of the mane six. What role does each individual characacter play whithin the group and what is the status hierarchy of their group. Here's what I've got so far:

ROLES

Twilight: Task Oriented Leader (a leader who gets things done)

Rarity: Group Liaison/Status Optimiser (is concerned with what outgroup members think of them. Rarity does what she can to make the image of the Mane Six as possitive as possible)

Apple Jack: The Muscle (the means to get things done)

Rainbow Dash: The Muscle (the means to get things done)

Pinkie Pie: Socio-emotional Specialist (maintains group morale)

FlutterShy: Omega (I really don't know. She rarely speaks up so she's often ignored. I guess someone's got to be on the bottom of the totem poll, and FlutterShy fits the bill

While I have given Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash the same social role, I want to make it clear that I think that they are very different characters and play the role in a very different way. Apple Jack is all about helping others before herself and Rainbow Dash is the exact opposite. In other words, I think AJ is very other-oriented and RD is very self-oriented. I do feel that they play the same role in the group and I think that this is the main source of their (friendly) rivalry. They compete to prove who's better at filling the role of "The Muscle".

STATUS HEIRARCHY

1 Twilight

2 Rarity

3 Apple Jack

4 Rainbow Dash

5 Pinkie Pie

6 FlutterShy

I think that when it comes to status, Twilight is quite clearly at the top as a leader should be and FlutterShy is quite clearly at the bottom as an omega should be. While socio-emotional specialist is usually a high status position, I feel that Pinkie Pie ranks quite low in the group because everyone has such a hard time relating to her or even understanding her. While everyone listens to Pinkie more often than FlutterShy, they often dismiss what she says as random or "just being Pinkie Pie".

Rarity, Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash are much more ambiguious and I'm not so sure of my ranking of these three. Because Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash play the same role in my role classification, I think that they should be very close on the status heirarchy. Though, I'm sure many will disagree with me, I put Apple Jack above Rainbow Dash because I feel she embodies the social identity of the group with her other-oriented nature more than the self-oriented competitor. Initially, I had Rarity under Apple Jack and Rainbow Dash but I think that my personal preference for AJ and RD biased this decision. Status should be determined by what the ponies think of each other and not what the fans think. And, while I think the fandom respects AJ and RD more than Rarity, I think Rarity is more respected within her group.

So what do you guys think. I'm still not sure about all this and I think that alternate views might help me figure it all out.

[Rannil]

If you purely want to base it on how the ponies think, there is no or little hierarchy to be found. They don't really have a clear cut idea that one is better then an other. Even Rainbow Dash and Rarity, the more self centered of the bunch, don't see themselves any better. That said there are ponies that get ignored faster or go into action faster and based on that we already have two groups. "Problem solvers" and "Non problem solvers."

The "problem solvers" are the ones going into action and either use intelligence (Twilight), Wisdom (Applejack) and Action (Rainbow Dash), with the different of intelligence and wisdom being the difference of book-smart and street-smart.

Random action in the pony world tends to lead no where, and Rainbow Dash does a lot of that, but Applejack has sometimes a case of "action now" as well. We do see n the show a lot of example for Applejack prevents Rainbow Dash from doing something irrational. So Applejack clearly is higher then Rainbow Dash.

When it comes to Applejack vs Twilight, we see that Applejack mostly uses common sense and mostly uses that to halt other ponies, more so then actually solving problems. Because these ponies are halted, Twilight gets her moment to think, so based on that we assume Applejack is giving Twilight thinking time, thus Twilight is higher.

The "non problem solvers" either fulfill other roles, make the problem worse or even when have the answer get ignored. Those three would be Fluttershy, Pinky Pie and Rarity.

First off, Rarity. You seem to like Rarity a lot, but she is mostly "the problem" (Most fashion episodes). And even when she can handle herself (Dog and Pony Show), she still is the problem and needs to be saved in the mind of the other ponies. She doesn't offer a lot of advise or solves a lot of problems, but at least she can voice herself, unlike Pinky Pie who gets ignored often and Fluttershy who gets almost always ignored. Fluttershy even held the answer in some cases, but either gets ignored, or she doesn't speak up. Pinky Pie tries to voice her concerns, but mostly got shot down.

For the roles they fulfill it gets a bit harder for me to find the right words. Rarity does the looks, sees details, has expertise. Pinky Pie mostly tries to think out of the box, either bringing humor to ponies or the audience. Fluttershy has her animal expertise and because that in many cases knows the answer, but she doesn't act upon it.

In list form we get:

Twilight Sparkle: Problem solver (with logic and booksmart and magic)

Apple Jack: Problem solver (with common snese)/Prevents other ponies from rushing in/Muscle

Rainbow Dash: Muscle/Quick reactions to save other ponies.

Rarity: Worries about the group looks/focuses on details

Pinky Pie: Outside the box thinker (Which mostly fails)/Entertainer

Fluttershy: Knowing how to deal with animals/Helping hand in peaceful need/Hidden last resort (Stare master)

With the only difference of Rarity dropping a bit, not sure bout that, but when facing a problem she doesn't take any lead or offer any advise mostly, but when she wants to be heard, she gets heard. And the entire hierarchy is based on how often the other ponies listen to that pony.

And me not being able to find single words to describe roles.

[teygrim]

As much as we'd all like to believe that we can be all equal, I don't think you can have a group that doesn't have a stutus hierarchy. Different people have different abilities which have, in turn, a different level of importants to the longevity of the group. For example, I think the Mane Six would suffer more as a group if they lost Twilight than they would if they lost Flutter Shy. In Western Culture we highly value equality so we learn to ignore the status hierarchy, but it still exists, even if we don't see it.

Rarity is actually my least favorite character of the Mane Six, but I think that she understands stutus hierarchies better than anyone else, so I felt it reasonable to assume that she would know how to place herself highly in her own. Her dresses alone are enough to bring her respect from outgroup ponies. Remember in "Green is not Your Colour" when Flutter Shy publicly humiliated herself and Rarity brought the jeering crowd into momentous applause because they noticed her excellent fashion sense.

The rest of what you say I agree with, and you make a very good point about Apple Jack. Although, I wouldn't exactly call her wise, she does enforce the common sense of the group. She seems to model the ideals of the group more closely than any of the rest and she seems to be the one to enforce those ideals when someone steps out of line. Maybe she is number 2 afterall.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Personally, I think it is a pretty cynical to assume that all relationships must ultimately boil down to a simple, linear dominance relationship. The only overt hierarchy we are ever shown in the show is Princess Celestia, even the old gray mayor doesn't seem to have any effective control over anypony's actions. Instead, they each seem to assert themselves or defer based on their own personal knowledge, skills, emotional state and the salience of expected outcomes. However, their value to each other isn't measured in usefulness, its measured in cognitive and emotional investment, shared history and other similarities.

I'd say that their relationship has more of a communality framework that is frankly very common among close friends and doesn't even rely on strict reciprocation, they seem to share their time and talents with each other without any strict balancing of reciprocal benefits. Also, all of their cooperation seems to be entirely voluntary, rather than any one of them having the ability to literally issue commands, or follow up disobedience with punishment.

Applejack gives Rarity apple fritters for free, everypony helps out with the other's chores without any understanding of payment and indeed some end up needing help more frequently than others. Fluttershy never gets anyone to help her with her problems if she can help it, but she's always helping out her friends because it is something that she personally wants to do, and its not just because she's on the bottom of the totem pole. They essentially have a level of trust where they can help themselves to the other's generosity without fear of a hurtful retaliation, and they self-handicap themselves when they feel like they are putting an undue burden on their friends.

In western culture, people seem to value equity above equality and it forms a bedrock of legal precedent when dealing with issues of bias. It has often been said that "all persons similarly situated should be treated alike," though the nature of what constitutes similarly situated has been the subject of numerous debates, it is clearly not a universal constant. It may be cognitively easier to assume a universal constant, but many of the lessons learned throughout the series do focus on critical thinking, usually involving challenging your own assumptions and expectations.

[teygrim]

@Ginger Mint

I think you misunderstand me. There is more than one kind of status hierarchy. I'm talking about the one that occurs naturally and not the one that is enforced. It is all consentual and it stays stable because they care about each other. It is based on individual knowledge, skills, talents, likability, and everything else you've mentioned and not formal structure. It's a means of effective cooperation, not domination, and it is closely tied to the role each character plays in the group.

As for Flutter Shy, you say "Fluttershy never gets anyone to help her with her problems if she can help it, but she's always helping out her friends because it is something that she personally wants to do, and its not just because she's on the bottom of the totem pole" and you're absolutely right. It's not becaus she's on the bottom of a status hierarchy that she behaves in a kind but submissive way, it's the other way around. Flutter Shy is at the bottom of the status hierarchy BECAUSE of the way she behaves. This is what I mean by consentual.

I don't think we really disagree on anything here. I think we're just talking about different things.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Well you've got the benefit of the doubt for now, but I'm still not sure where the distinction lies. I mean, from one point of view, Fluttershy is on the bottom because she gives more help, but from another perspective, she's on top because she has more to give, is more sought after, and can doesn't need much in return.

[flutterscotch]

I believe that TV Tropes has firmly covered that Rainbow Dash is the Lancer, with some of the lancer slack picked up by Applejack. The Han Solo to Twilight Sparkle's Luke Skywalker.

[BlackFang]

3 words:

primus inter pares.

for those not so fluent on latin , meaning there is a sort of leading on a totally even group, and that leadership changes according to the situation, think 'Dragonshy' and 'Swarm of the Century'

[teygrim]

@Ginger Mind

The best way I can think to explain status is the amount of influnce an individual has on other group members. The source of this influence can come from an institutional framework that is artificially applied to a group (eg the military) or from a naturally developing respect that's based on the interactions of group members. I think Fluttershy is at the bottom of the hierarchy because, although she has proven her value to the group in such episodes as "Dragonshy", I feel her submissive and soft spoken nature has lead her friends to often overlook her and take her for granted. She can't have very much influence on her friends if they ignore her when she speaks which they often do.

@BlackFang

You might be right, but I'm not sure about the examples you gave. Although Fluttershy saved the day in "Dragonshy", she was still part of Twilights plan and Pinkie was operating outside the group in "Swarm of the Century". So I would still classify Twilight as the leader of the group in both episodes.