starswirlthebearded

Seems more likely ginger... At least in my mind... Now... EqD had reported that Mr De Lancie recorded another mlp episode. Would it not be lovely if it was history and we could get definitive answers?

Twilight was the only pony to remember, because she was never affected directly by discord. However lesson zero was all her. That was pressure of having the princess as your mentor. I've seen grad students react the same way with their advisors and deadlines. And they had absolutely no trauma.

That is what Celestia said. You are assuming her account is 100% correct and unbiased. She wrote the history, and it doesn't have to be 100% accurate, and is likely not, because it is as she observed it. If the history was written by a third party, I'd think completely differently. I stated that only as a possibility of something that Celestia left out of the history as something that would be frowned upon because Discord would likely be viewed as evil. Again, he could have been a necessary part of the balance, and went out of control resulting in a need to be imprisoned. Yes there is evidence to suggest that her account is at least in part correct, but there is no way to check that it is entirely correct, unless there is something like a lost history that is written by someone not involved in the battle between Celestia/Luna and Discord.

The future is also influenced by the past, in which Discord was IMPRISONED for 1000 years in stone. That would annoy anyone. She did warn that he would act that way, but the scope and size of the disharmony he previously bought was never determined. Celestia could have easily determined it was going to be worse this time around because Discord was out for vengeance against her. What he did in the past could have been not nearly as bad as she made it out to be. Discord had no real intent and was doing what he was basically born in this world to do. Palpatine and Voldemort BOTH actively chose to go down the path of death and destruction. Discord never had a choice as the negative side of the balancing act of the world. Which is why I have been claiming that it could have been not as bad as Celestia is claiming, this time around he was out for vengeance. This time he had a motive to go overboard. He didn't have such motive in the past. Which is why it is safe to consider that he didn't do the same things he did as in the past. And why it is possible that things went the way they did because he was part of the balance, not the problem, at least initially. It wasn't until he became a problem that Celestia and Luna imprisoned him.

All Discord states is what he plans to do in the future, not what he did in the past. One cannot dictate the other. We assume it is true because of what Celestia said. However, she and Luna are the only two that were around that can tell the story, and we never heard Luna say anything about the matter. Discord never spoke of the past other than Celestia being grim. Yes, we know that Discord was defeated by the elements of harmony, but that does not suggest anything but that. Discord never states any intent to actually rule. He intended to wreak chaos upon the world, but the reasons are never given. That does not suggest any past action or how he did conduct himself as a ruler. We only have Celestia's word on that. And don't bring up "Discord rules, Celestia drools," as that is a metaphor, and does not state intention to actually rule over Equestria, or anything else of the sort. And sure you can learn certain things by hating or opposing someone, but their tendencies are a bit harder, as that requires discussion. We don't know in what capacity the two had the discussions they held, whether it was like in the present, him starting a game with Celestia or Luna or in a more diplomatic sense, or in a friendly sense. We simply don't know. We have limited information on the entire situation, mainly coming from the current ruler, Celestia (and her pretty windows, which were created by her). In fact, based on his personality, I have my doubts that he actually did rule at any time. And if he did, it probably wouldn't have been alone because he wouldn't want that responsibility, and if it was alone, how can that be considered ruling, because all he would do is spread random chaos, possibly with a bit more care so that the world wouldn't be destroyed by aforementioned chaos (which I'm sure he knew was a possibility, he was an antagonist but he was an intelligent one) He just doesn't seem the type to rule, rather he would act on his own whims disrupting those in power, as he did with Celestia in the present. Again, like Loki. Loki never ruled, rather he disrupted the actions of the other gods, though sometimes helping, depending on what he decided to do. I honestly think there is more to the story than what was presented to us. And we will never know because Discord is encased and will probably never be spoken of again. I suggested one of many possibilities in which Discord was around. He is the spirit of discord and disharmony. Now, if we knew how long he existed or any additional information we could make further assertions on the matter. How was he created, how long was he around for. Did he exist before the creation of Equestria? And if so why was he dormant? Did he get created by the discord between the three pony clans? And by extension, was Celestia and Luna the resulting creation of the new found harmony of the three clans? If that can be assumed then why did Discord take power first? Do draconequus develop faster allowing him to take control of Equestria before the sisters? None of the necessary information to make an accurate statement about Equestria's history is known. No origin of any of the three, no relations. All we got was basically "Discord ruled, everyone was miserable, and my sister and i rose up using the elements of harmony to defeat him." That is the summary of the story, and the fact that it can be said in one line is worrisome. And tells, at least me, that it isn't the entire story. There must have been some interaction between the three at some point whether it was as friends or adversaries is unknown. We only know that they became adversaries.

I never actually said she "lied." You cannot lie about a personal account, because you are recounting events from your perspective (actually you can, but there is rarely a point unless you did something horrible that you want erased). She was involved and thus her accounts cannot, by design, be objective, which would be a totally accurate account. So I am contesting whether everything she says is entirely accurate, which by all accounts, is probably not, but that does not mean that she lied about anything. Personal accounts are subjective, she told it as it happened to HER. Without Discord's side of the story, we cannot ascertain the entirety of the story. Likely either would spin the story of what happened to make themselves seem the better and the opposition seem all the worse. I don't expect her to lie nor do I think she would ever, however, she does have a history of not revealing the whole truth when she knows. Perhaps its because she too is omnipotent and can tell, like discord the course that her actions, or lack thereof would take and thus chooses to withhold certain information to bring about the most advantageous outcome, that would teach her student and subjects so that they can, in the future, become more self-sufficient. Now, as for what Discord said, again, I'm assuming in the current time, that is his goal as revenge against Celestia for the 1000 years imprisonment. His history, and time of ruling, is another matter entirely. We do not know how the world was. It is entirely possible that the three ruled together in a state of complete balance with harmony and disharmony coexisting as it does in our world. It is also possible that Discord took it too far and started doing things that would have shifted the balance of the world causing pain and misery for the world, leading Celestia and Luna to take action against him. Celestia, to avoid making it seem that she allied herself with someone whom can be perceived as evil, yet being an integral part of the balance (which most ponies would not understand), chose to imprison him and tell the story in such a way that he would be perceived as the be all end all of evil and that she and Luna were the saviors of the land and the harmony in Equestria. It wouldn't have been a lie, because HE was ruling, and there WAS misery, but what she wouldn't have mentioned is her alliance with him as part of the ruling class. It is evident that the two knew each other in some capacity. "Oh Celestia, I have forgotten how grim you can be." You don't learn that about a person on the battlefield or in combat, but through personal relation. And they say sometimes your greatest friend can become your most devious of enemies (I forget where I read that, but I know that isn't exactly how the quote goes).

I feel the need to reply to specific points of your DSM IV analysis. He lied one time. He did speak in riddles though, and was misunderstood. He told them exactly where to find the elements, back where they began. Hell he even told then leading them into the maze was his plan (which if they had figured out, everything would have ended sooner or he would have set up another "game". Not everything he said in the maze was a lie, but interpretation from a certain perspective, with the exception of rarity. so one lie does not make him a pathological liar. He created a fake gem, though I suppose he was telling the truth based on the illusion. Pinkie pie was a legitimate analysis too. Just because her friends were laughing along with her does not mean that they were not also laughing at her. Granted that was probably not the case, but was still a possibility that he used to drive her into bringing out her anti social tendencies. *Almost* everything else he said was mockery. He has every right to have feelings of grandiose sense of self. He is a god. If you had his powers you'd probably feel the same. And his planning was pretty long term, but didn't take into account all variables (spike and Celestia). Had he accounted for those two he would have succeeded. And he is certainly invulnerable. The only way to stop him was encase him in stone, and that only lasts as long as those who imprisoned him remain connected to the EoH, and every pony remains in harmony around his statue. Otherwise he is pretty much untouchable. Everything else matches up though. However, his powers and his state a spirit of disharmony must be taken into account. So the dsm iv doesn't really apply as it was designed for humans, not all powerful brings. But by that it would be enough to categorize him as a sociopath. But that doesn't make him evil rather someone who needs mental help, as most sociopaths had issues to make them that way in their history, which is unknown. The only way you could have made discord more like q would have also brought in star trek writers to help. Otherwise they are pretty much identical.

Not based on his intent to neutralize the elements of harmony. He chose to corrupt them instead of using another more nefarious method of neutralization, which, with his power would have been child's play.

Assuming everything Celestia said was accurate. It would have been more chaotic certainly, but our world isn't completely harmonious and yet it still isn't a dystopia. In fact because it isn't completely harmonious that makes this world interesting. Who is to say discord wasn't ruling in a similar fashion? You are making assumptions based on the victor's description, which could be completely wrong. We can easily take his actions here as revenge for the 1000+ years of imprisonment, he wanted to destroy Celestia's kingdom before starting his own. That does not make him evil. A for the mane 6, it was only so the elements could not be used against him. Basically trying to beat his enemies. The fact that he did it without harming them, when he probably could have blinked them out of existence if he wanted to. Now that would have been completely evil and still would have achieved his goal of neutralizing the elements of harmony.

The mane 6 had latent traits brought out. They each showed tendencies towards those personalities in S1. The other ponies in Ponyville were illusions (big Mac, granny Smith, et al.) And if every pony was affected by this chaos, then Celestia would have been as well, as every pony within Equestria was affected, including the buffalo from appaloosa. Why would Celestia not be included in that change is those changes were not illusions?

Or one can assume that the effects were all illusions. Including changing the ponies. If he had the power to change ponies like that, why not change Celestia? Seems like a silly oversight that led to his downfall.

You know the problem with that argument is that the creators did base discord on q, they made that quite clear, going as far as to spend the money to get the same actor to play him. So equating q to discord is quite fair.

Also, I meant that as in they didn't intentionally cause lasting damage knowingly to anyone. Their actions while under Discord were trifling in the grand scheme. While morally wrong they weren't explicit in that they weren't lasting. I'm not sure if that makes sense. I'm going to repeat this, because it is very important... Q, and by extension Discord, does not have the ability to bewitch. He has the power of seduction and to bring out latent traits in people/ponies. Yes Fluttershy resisted, but in the end, she had the capacity to become that, which is the only reason it was possible for Discord to affect her by forcing it out of her. She is the only one to not actively choose, yes, but the fact is that Discord does not posses the power to completely change a person, he never did. I'm going to expand on this later, as I need to get to class.

Honestly, that depends on the dictionary at hand. http://www.merriam-w...dictionary/evil <-- the causing harm part is associated with pernicious, which a mere slap is not. Though... taunting depending on the aim and severity could be, but Fluttershy's taunts of Pinkie were barely venomous. Now, I will admit, that OED (which I consider to be the ultimate dictionary) is also vague with that definition of the word (I wish I could link it but I have it through subscription through my university). (btw, I say vague as in it doesn't cite modern usage where doing ANY kind of harm would be considered evil) but let me cite the first two, since those seem to be the popular ones: 1. Morally depraved, bad, wicked, vicious. Also absol. Obs. as applied to persons. 2. Doing or tending to do harm; hurtful, mischievous, prejudicial. Of advice, etc.: Misleading. Of an omen, etc.: Boding ill. Now for the doing harm... I don't know why, but I get the feeling its a bit more consistent and tangible rather than a slap. For some reason I cannot see a slap as evil, or a trip as evil (unless its say tripping someone in such a way that may cause them severe injury, like throwing a stick in their path while running or rollerblading). Using the strictest definition of the word so many people would be considered evil, or their actions evil. Any class clown would be considered evil. It seems overly harsh. I cannot subscribe to that mode of thought. I was bullied as a kid, and I didn't even think those kids were evil, despite what they put me through. I consider evil to be the epitome of depravity in a heart. Fluttershy was a far cry from that. She was mean, not evil. Discord could be considered evil, but I think there is more to it, and I do not think it was handled in the right way, as again, being the same person as Q, it could have been dealt with in similar ways as Jean Luc Picard did and not ended it by encasing him in stone. And Q was far more vicious in his acts. Edit: Looking at the Synonyms cited for that definition from #9.... " 9. disaster, calamity, woe, misery, suffering, sorrow." Hm... Interesting.

How are those actions evil? Mean spirited perhaps, but certainly not evil.

WAIT! You never knew that the moon was actually a tea pot!? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmheWgtiMvw Yes, a kind and benevolent ruler whom imprisoned her own sister to the moon for a millennium, because she couldn't figure a way to stop her without doing that in all of her wisdom. "You wouldn't know that, because I don't turn ponies to stone." All I'm saying is that we don't know what happened. We are made to perceive things in a certain way. We do not know how Discord ruled, or the true history between Celestia and Discord. If Celestia was a truly kind and benevolent ruler she would have found another way other than imprisoning him in stone. Celestia won and told the story, we don't know if that is really how it happened. Also... on the elements of Harmony... She AND her sister wielded them, we don't know whom had what element. And when wielding them alone she was far less effective, and she suggested this. It was when they worked together that they were able to use the elements of harmony to their fullest capacity. And when their connection broke Discord was released. And again, he never *made* them forget who they really are, he allowed them to choose to forget and take a different path. They chose poorly, choosing to give into their own weaknesses. Discord doesn't possess that ability. He does possess the ability of suggestion. I honestly think they went about it in the wrong way. Discord is the spirit of discord and disharmony, but even Q could be reasoned with, and they are essentially the same character. Are you saying two all powerful beings, Celestia and Luna are lesser than Captain Jean Luc Picard???? (Ok, so I fully admit that Picard was a total BA and should not be undermined at all)

You know... America said the exact same thing about Iraq with Saddam Hussein. And ya know what? I think they were better off. History is written by the victors. How do we know that it was really that bad? We don't because Celestia and Luna defeated him. They told the story, not him. We don't know exactly what happened, we only know the winning side. Everything he did in the present could have been as Rosewind said, a form of justice. At no point was it suggested that he did the same things as he did over 1000 years ago.

So then... Yes, by your definition Twilight was evil towards the end of that episode. Her intent was fully to create discord. "If I can't FIND a friendship problem, I'm going to MAKE a friendship problem." Yeah, that just SCREAMS good intentions. Her bewitching the doll was so that there would be disharmony between the CMC so that she could solve the problem, and in doing so she created complete and utter chaos for all of Ponyville. And her intentions were fully selfish as it was so that she would have a letter to write to Princess Celestia. She knew what she was doing.

Satan is the embodiment of evil, that is all Satan does is corrupt people to do wrong. Discord may be negative, but it certainly not evil. Therefore Discord as a character is not evil. No pony did anything explicitly morally wrong while under Discord's influence. And Discord himself only made the world in chaos. Chaos is not evil, neither is disharmony. They are natural occurrences, and at no point can they be considered evil, unless evil acts are performed in times of chaos or disharmony. Again, this isn't a black and white issue. Really, no pony died, and no pony was actually hurt by Discord, he made the world chaotic, and yes, some ponies were miserable, but again that is his task to bring chaos, and chaos in and of itself is not evil. Am I saying he was good for Equestria? Not at all, I don't think anyone is arguing that. He was an antagonist aiming to reshape Equestria into a chaotic world that would not be appreciated by most ponies. But chaos happens in Equestria even without Discord pulling at the strings, just in smaller scales. Unless you think Twilight's charm and causing mass hysteria was not chaotic... If chaos is evil, than Twilight's efforts in Lesson Zero made her evil as well. Her freak out brought undue chaos upon Ponyville. And yet she is not evil, and her actions are not seen as evil, despite the chaos and disharmony she brought (unless you think fighting over a doll is not disharmony).

That explanation totally reminded my of Steve Hughes bit on offence. But yes, morality is highly subjective, and a lot of it stems from what the society, group, and personal upbringing of the person viewing interprets as moral. *Some* (can't blanket statement) Christians think it is amoral to be homosexual. Now I'm not saying all of morality is subjective, a lot of it is fairly uniform. But it certainly isn't black and white as some purport. @Ginger: To say that a creature whom refers to himself as "Discord, Spirit of chaos and disharmony" is evil for being what he is, is not right. It is his inherent nature. He cannot be anything else other than a bringer of chaos and disharmony, it is his inherent nature. That is his task in life, that is all he is, the essence of chaos and disharmony in physical form. If he had a choice in the matter I may agree with him being evil, but that isn't the case. Would you say Dionysus is a drunk and a bum because he is the embodiment of wine and the party? Or Aphrodite a slut because she is the embodiment of love and desire? And naturally ERIS because she embodies STRIFE AND DISCORD as evil? No, because that is their purpose, that is all they are, it is them. It is not good or evil for them, it is who they are. What they may do may seem immoral, but they are the spirit of those traits, they are not like normal people, and should not be treated as thus.

@Weesh and GingerMint, I'd like to suggest something quite interesting. Discord didn't actually *change* the mane 6 in the strictest sense of the word. Q, and thus by extension, Discord, does not possess that ability. He can only bring out and enhance personality traits through suggestion. If the mane 6 did not possess the inclination towards those personality traits, he would not have been able to do anything. Q (Discord) can change reality, not people/ponies. Each pony CHOSE to make that change because it was suggested by Discord, with the exception of Fluttershy. In S1 each pony showed an inclination to those negative traits at least to some degree. I believe I read from link here about the elements representing the qualities that the mane 6 hold in highest regard, not what they are the embodiment of. Fluttershy showed her ability to be mean when rejected by the animals, AJ wasn't always honest, Rarity not always generous etc... Just because they hold those qualities in highest regard does not mean that they are completely opposed towards the opposite spectrum. And that is what makes them interesting characters. If they weren't like that they would be as boring as the MLP of the past. I was going to continue onto reiterate why Discord isn't evil, but Rosewind said essentially what I was going to say. Discord is the Yin to Celestia and Luna's yang. He is part of the necessary balance of the world. Celestia and Luna are the pure representation of consonance (they are the combination of all three pony species in harmony within their body), Discord is the pure representation of dissonance (the combination of multiple creatures that are out of harmony within his body). Harmony can only exist with the existence of both.

Discord is the poster child for lovable antagonist. However that does not make him evil. He technically didn't hurt any pony he just changed six, making one miserable (the others weren't in any state of mind to be miserable until after twi's memory spell). That is naturally not right but not necessarily evil. He changed the world into one of chaos. That is his nature, why would you fault him for that? He is no worse than Loki. And honestly had he toned it down, it would have made for a more balanced world, as in Norse mythology. And honestly, if he was in a grand scale like the character he was based off of, Q, there would have been no issue as the universe moves towards entropy anyway. He isn't good, he isn't evil. Like most beings he just is. And he is by far my favorite antagonist.

...but similarly satisfying. Well, until he named the Phoenix. I can think of two reasons why spike did not return the egg. The first is that he was carried by the teen dragons to the nest and was transported away by twilight thus his knowledge to get there was lacking. He could have asked twilight, but either she don't remember because she was intent on following or other vague plot enhancing reason. The second is that he did off screen and the Phoenix nest had moved due to the dragon attack. I am in total agreement on everything else though.

I'm going to say that Equestrian Dragons are like Dragons of Middle Earth. Not all of them are the same. Spike is a wingless dragon, nothing more. Winged dragons are probably more common and the more dominant species. But that does not mean that there aren't a smaller amount of wingless dragons somewhere around Equestria. Lets face it... Wings give an advantage in the hunt. However, it could be possible that wingless dragons have an affinity for magic and winged do not. Which could suggest separate species like in the pony population. Faust said that the Princess specifically chose a dragon egg for Twi's test. It could be that she chose it from the rarer breed of wingless, magically gifted, dragons, as opposed to the magicless and winged. Spike may just not be as talented as the Princess hoped or is a late bloomer in dragon magic, and can only perform the letter sending magic at this time. But it is possible that Spike could develop other magic down the line. As for Spike having a Phoenix... I'm going to go out on a limb and say it will probably be shared responsibility between him and Twilight. Spike will be the primary care giver, but Twi will support him. Kind of like a kid's first pet. So I think, in reality, it will be more like a "family" pet than Spike's personal pet. That is if it survives to see another episode >_>.

I've always compared flying to swimming. You can swim as an infant, but can't as an older child and the skill has to be relearned... Either that, or as others have suggested, Scoot's body developed faster than her wings, meaning that her wings aren't big enough or strong enough to allow her to fly. As for magic, I can't really answer, there is no real world parallel. However, it seems that in most literature magic is an instinctual natural gift that can manifest itself without the forethought of the creature casting it. The control of the magic seems to depend on the will or desire of the caster. So for a single minded infant, I see no reason why it cannot perform magic with control. The only, and I mean only, questionable thing was the portal through the basket. That seemed to be done using active thought, which shouldn't be possible. However, everything else can be explained through singleminded will.