DulsetTarn Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hi there, new guy here! I'd like to get a nice in-depth discussion going, so here's a topic I've been putting a lot of thought into since Season 4 ended.I believe that after the completion of Season 4, it's safe to say that the concept of Princess Twilight has failed completely.Now I'm not anti-AliTwi, I'm not looking for reasons to think that her transformation and coronation were awful and the writers should be ashamed. I mean, the way it was handled in the Season 3 finale was awful, a completely terrible way to force such a change on poor Twilight. But even not liking how the change was handled, I had no ill regards for the change itself. I was actually quite optimistic that now that it's over with, they'd at least be able to do good with it. I didn't want it undone, I looked forward to seeing what they would do with this new dynamic, and let's face it, that's exactly what Season 4 is meant to do. As much as they try to pretend that what happened in Magical Mystery Cure totally made sense and that Twilight earned her place as an alicorn princess, it's obvious to everyone that Season 4 (and Equestria Girls, which I will just implicitly include in "Season 4") existed to prove it. The season is essentially a big sign saying "THIS is why Twilight is a princess!" And yet, it failed.It's a bit funny, in my old pony hangout everyone was predictably up in arms about the transformation. The biggest fear was that this would change everything, but to me, my biggest fear, the worst thing the writers could possibly do, is not change anything at all. And of course, that's what we get. Nothing Twilight does in season 4 needed her to be an alicorn princess. None of the things she does "as a princess" are anything she couldn't, or wouldn't, have done normally as Celestia's star pupil. Even though they tried in the premiere and finale to pretend that it meant something, the truth we're faced with is that Twilight's ascension, for the characters, the stories, and Equestria at large, meant absolutely nothing.Okay so there are many reasons behind all this, but in this post I'm going to go over what I feel is the biggest one, which is also the simplest solution. The one thing Princess Twilight really needed.(Whew, FINALLY getting to the meat of the post...)From my continued analysis, there is one thing that makes Twilight's "struggle" as a princess utterly and fundamentally unbelievable. The one thing I believe makes it impossible to buy into the idea that Twilight is a princess, is that no one is telling her she's not. Twilight's change is sudden, it's something she never asked for, and something even she doesn't believe she deserves. This is the correct, reasonable stance to take. So why is everyone else so on board with it? And I'm not suggesting everyone should be against her here. What I'm saying is that no one, not even the villains, take even one moment to call her right to rule into question. If Twilight's struggle as a princess is a "story", then it needs an external antagonist, someone she can prove wrong and demonstrate, to them, to her, and to us, that there is no doubt. But this never happens, and through the whole season she's the ONLY one who even thinks about it. This mysterious acceptance, not just by her friends, but even by the villains, makes it impossible for us as viewers to take her struggle seriously.The strangest part about that however, is how many opportunities they actually had to call it into question.Sunset Shimmer, a former student of Celestia's who was seeking power to rule Equestria and likely still revered her old mentor? How do you think she would feel learning that this... kid who took her place actually became a princess? I think she'd have a few choice insults to throw at a wannabe princess like Twilight.Or Tirek, who covets and fears the princesses' magic. The immortal princesses locked him up once, and now he's beaten them! But there's another princess now, a whelp? Carrying the power of those infinitely superior? Surely he'd have something to say about her not knowing the meaning of true power as the REAL princesses do.Doesn't even have to be villains! Calling Twilight's place as a princess into doubt doesn't have to be out of jealousy or spite, it can just as easily be out of concern for her. How about Princess Luna? Celestia may have orchestrated Twilight's ascension, but would Luna really be on board with it? Remember, Luna knows first-hand what it means to fail as a princess. Would she really trust Twilight to be a better princess than she was 1000 years ago? I think she'd certainly at least ask Twilight if she truly believes she's ready for this burden.Even closer, how about somepony like Applejack? Of course she wouldn't be trying to hurt Twilight's feelings, but they're close friends and AJ knows Twilight isn't good with stressful situations, nor is she ruler material. In fact, Applejack would be the perfect candidate to ask the obvious questions. "What are you a princess of, exactly?" "Just how did this happen again?" "Why you and nopony else?"Finally, there's an even closer character to Twlight that could act as the "antagonist" to her princessdom. Spike, her number one assistant and oldest friend. He knows Twilight better than anyone else. He knows she's spent her life working hard and doing her best, and that none of that was to become some princess. Twilight had a life, she had goals, she almost certainly had a plan (it is Twilight after all). But one day, poof! All that's brushed away when Celestia says "You're a princess now!" She never asked Twilight, she never suggested this would happen. Spike would know that deep down, Twilight doesn't WANT to be thrust into a life of royalty. He would tell her that this isn't her, that she can do something about this.The sheer number of possibilities there were to put the slightest bit of doubt on the issue makes it quite baffling how not a single character even suggests there's something to doubt. And remember, all of this is for the express purpose of being proven wrong by Twilight in the end, by her showing that she truly is a real princess and has earned it. Any one of these could give her the challenge she needs to overcome, but it has to come from outside. Twilight can't be driven to prove herself wrong, she has to believe in herself as a princess. And yet, while she questions herself, literally everyone around her is constantly shutting her down, telling her not to question it or worry about it. It more or less invalidates her entire arc as a princess, essentially denying that there IS an arc going on at all.WHEW, so that's my opinion on how Season 4 failed to make Princess Twilight a believable concept. Agree or disagree, tell me what you think below! I want to get to know you guys and how you think, and I'll definitely keep discussing with you! Thanks for reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysteria Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Ugghh, there are few things I love more than an in-depth discussion/analysis. Okay, so I was initially very against having Twilight become a princess. I nearly quit watching the show after that. It was so obvious a choice for a little girls' show that it was disgusting. Plus, it could have potentially ruined the Celestia and Twilight teacher/student relationship which is essential to the show. But then I realized that that was the only choice they really could make. I mean, they've had enough build-up for it to be probable she could become a princess, and there would be room for some character development there, too. Basically, something had to change to keep the show interesting and fresh; and since Twilight is the main character, why not make her a princess? That's not to say I particularly like the idea, however. The season 3 finale was my least favorite episode of the season - possibly of the whole show (I really didn't like season 3 to begin with. Thankfully, season 4 was much better). It was all very rushed and cliched. I was upset about the whole princess thing, there were too many songs, and yeah... disappointment. What I didn't want was for the rest of the show to be about Twilight coping with becoming a princess. I was pleasantly surprised when they didn't focus too strongly on that aspect in season 4. If they were to focus on that idea, I think it would lose the essence of the show (and of Twilight). Because friendship isn't built on status, it's built on the strong relationships you have with other people. That's probably what they were going for. They're trying to remind kids that although Twilight's developed, she's still the same pony. But I agree with what you're saying - they definitely needed to expand on the nuances of Twilight's change more. I never really considered it, but now that you mention it, they really haven't addressed the issue. All the characters have been mind-numbingly supportive, and that's a serious issue the writers have made. But I think this is what season 5 is for - Twilight discovering who she really is (and the Mane 6 accepting who she is). Season 4 was kind of setting the base of "Twilight's not really changed," and now season 5 is going to be about Twilight adapting. I really do hope that's where the show is headed. Would lead to some interesting character developments, not only for Twilight, but for her friends as well. I'd also like Spike to jut in at sometime and offer some moral support; that's what he's there for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 While that would be nice, I unfortunately can't believe season 5 will go that way. The writers seem to firmply believe that Princess Twilight is "dealt with", and once that happens there's no reason to ever address it again. But hey, we'll find out soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysteria Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 If they do decide to delve further into that area, it'll probably be somewhere in the finale. They usually save the important plot points for then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Important plot points sure, but very little in the way of character lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysteria Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm curious, what did you think of this season's first episode? I found it very lacking. There really was no development, and it certainly wasn't as epic in proportion to the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 It was... boring. The characters did very little. AJ, Rarity, and Dash had no reason to be there. Starlight had no discernible personality or motivations (not to be concern with goals, which were the only things she DID have). Even still, it was only mediocre. I'll take that over the awful season 4 premiere anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 It was intended that way to balance off the epic conclusion...no doubt because the season 4 finale is a tough act to just follow. The episode was more intended to be subversive and unsettling, which probably meant that just making it large in scope and grandiose was counter to what they wanted this particular episode to be, oppressive in tone rather than just all out offense and landscapes.No doubt the finale will be part of this reasoning too...starlight will undoubtably play a part and her motivations exposed fully. ( my theory at least ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 That's hardly an excuse to be boring. Everyone who watches this show knows it's the characters, not the action, that makes it fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Seems as though that mindset is shared by few...as a lot of folks found it an interesting twist on an opening episode. Still...horses for courses and opinions os onions, eh?And try not to speak for 'everyone who watches this show' - thats a large figure and nobody has the exact same things in mind...just a thing, y'know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Most people don't consider any episodes bad. I'm not going to try and convince them otherwise, unless they want to actually discuss it or try to say something's flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 That's hardly an excuse to be boring. Everyone who watches this show knows it's the characters, not the action, that makes it fun to watch.I didn't find the episode boring in the slightest, I thought the Cutie Markless was a great ep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopstAhri Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yep, I totally agree with you on this, Dulset! Her friends seem to support the fact she's a princess, and don't seem all that concerned with the fact that she's having trouble adjusting. The best they could do was "You'll get used to it,' and "let's go fix her castle!" They've been changing her crown throughout the seasons, too. There's, what, like, 3 now? Changing her crown into the one without the Element made sense since she had to return it to the tree, but I see no reason in changing it from the old crown (the vertical one) to the second one (horizontal). Sure, people would say it marks a new milestone in her life, but do we really need to give her a new crown? Writers could spend time developing her story and struggles instead of making crowns. The rest of the Mane Six didn't even get a new necklace. Basically, I think the writers were thinking this when they decided to make Twilight and Alicorn:80% to give her a new design to make the general audience happy15% to think of a way to make Twilight an Alicorn in an episode since she's already the mane character and Alicorns are loved by all (Luna is the best )5% actually developing her character Pretty sadthere should be more episodes in which Twilight gets developed rather than the general "let's write letters to Celestia about friendship" or "let's make diary entries while we follow Cutie Mark map" (that was a good episode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 The writers would not have made this call alone - hasbro would almost definitely been the ones telling them what they were aiming for toywise and expected the show to follow their plan.this has nothing to do with writer wants, I'll tell ya that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The writers would not have made this call alone - hasbro would almost definitely been the ones telling them what they were aiming for toywise and expected the show to follow their plan.this has nothing to do with writer wants, I'll tell ya that.The whole show could be thought of the same way, and yet it came out great because the writers poured their love into it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yep, but thats beside the point here...the writers have called the majority of the narrative shots along with dhx. Hasbros contribution begins with toys, marketing and licensing...and owning the brand which neans things can and will change depending on what their market research and ideas require, taking priority over the normal whims of thise writing the show itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 So then, I guess what I don't understand is... what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 My point is...any changes brought about to twilight are hasbros demands and not anything dhx or the writers planned for. They have to write their way through it, establishing the change without changing twilight as a character - as you can see, it has not always been smooth and they are still finding their way...less twilight focus has helped but obviously there needs more development on what DHX wants to focus on with regards to Twilight as an alicorn and how this does or does not change views of the immediate world around her.Basically, dhx are still trying to find the right way to utilise the change without completely undermining the show itself...sometimes they win, sometimes they dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 And, no offense, what does that have to do with this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Simple - popstahri brought up the decision mistaking it for the writers doing...the point eas to clarify that this is somewhat erroneous and that they are simply playing cards with somebody elses pack of cards.You too have mentioned dissatisfaction at how things turned out...and thus was aiming to provide some additional outside perspective to that side of the topic - by simply that alone, you yourself made it relevant for anyone to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulsetTarn Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 And like i said before, the mere existence of the show we love is a testament to how incorrect that is. But you seemed to disregard that as if you were talking about something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 He doesn't seem to be the only one disregarding something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopstAhri Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Simple - popstahri brought up the decision mistaking it for the writers doing...the point eas to clarify that this is somewhat erroneous and that they are simply playing cards with somebody elses pack of cards.You too have mentioned dissatisfaction at how things turned out...and thus was aiming to provide some additional outside perspective to that side of the topic - by simply that alone, you yourself made it relevant for anyone to do so.I guess you have a point there... I guess I wasn't thourough enough in my explanation, but I'm glad that you brought that up ^^' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.