Celestia=God (canon)

[Starfox64x]

Soooo this is mostly based off the recent episode where Rainbow Dash is talking to Derpy (hold, on, i'm required to squee every time i remind myself derpy is now canon....... okay i'm good) and she yells "In the same of Celestia just sit there!"

So, the normal phrase is "In the name of god..." So, does that mean that the residence view Celestia as a god? I'm not entirely sure about other forms of government with kings and queens, but i dont go around and say "In the name of Obama", So i think it has a little bit of merit...

Now, of course that's not the ONLY reason i see this, She's obviously respected and feared at times, i mean, Twilight nearly lost her mind when she couldnt get a letter to her on time (you could argue she's OCD like that, but I see it more along the line of she was afraid of what the princess would do, since she's a god and all) but she was also tweaking with the parasprite incident when she thought she was on the way... and once she realized she wasn't going to come, she cooled off quickly. even though the town was still in shambles...

Not to mention she's at least 1000 years old, if not significantly older than that.... so, probably not mortal...

So yeah, there's my brief amount of evidence that Celestia is a god, and that this is canon, not fanon... although, to be honest, i dont really CARE either way... i'm just mostly curious about what you all think and if you have any arguments against it or more evidence to support it.

[DalkrinTheWanderer]

HAIL TO THE GOD PRINCESS OF PONIES!

I'm going to go with, Yes, she is a god. for all the reasons you stated and additionally, her method of dealing with problems is to select a "Hero" to carry out deeds in her name. she herself never does any of the real work. Her role is to rule and to protect the ponies from others like her (Nightmare Moon, Discord and their ilk). Now as a god, she is by no means all powerful. The elements of harmony would be a construct that empowers her. While she no longer has them, she is still far more powerful than even twilight.

[weesh]

People swear by the highest source of power that they can think of. Swearing by something is not a sign of divinity but power. In the absence of a being more powerful than Celestia, why wouldn't ponies swear by her? You know, besides the fact that it is crazy rude. Shame on you Rainbow Dash.

So no, it is not canon. I would be uncomfortable calling her God in any case, but I do love many of the similarities.

For example:

• Powerful but personal, loving and forgiving
  
• Ageless but up to date
  
• Teaching but not controlling (allows mistakes, and for them to be growth opportunities)
  
• Serious when necessary, but also enjoying humor
  
• Accessible but not breathing down your neck
  
• Protective but not smothering
  
• Does not always appear logical but is proven trustworthy
  

I am happy to just see her as a picture of God's love for us.

[3arlGrey]

Silly you. Take a look in the Pony bible.

Genesis 1:1

In the beginning, Fausticorn created the heavens and the earth.

No, but under the circumstances that Celestia isn't so all powerful that she can be everywhere at once,

nor her own religon or anything. Despite living for a thousand years, she doesn't have an altar ( unless

that's what you call her castle ), and nor a group of cult ponies following her around, so why should we

have any reason to believe she's some kind of non-entity?

[DalkrinTheWanderer]

I'm sure that if she isn't a god, there are groups in equestria that view her as such. larger cities may have alters erected in her honor. We're never given a whole lot of view into the views and manerisms of Equestria at large. We see the microcosm that is Ponyville most of the time. They're a traditionallist Earth Pony town that only recently had unicorns and pegasai settle there.

[Rosewind]

I've seen some fans say "Oh my Celestia." I've used that phrase myself, too, cause I think it's cute. I'm thinking it might be another nod to the fanbase, which makes it that much cooler.

Is Celestia a goddess? She's immortal (as far as we can tell), and has the ability to raise the sun. She's wise and interested in the well-being of her subjects. Her sister Luna also has divine powers. I think the design philosophy is geared more toward Greek mythos where certain divine beings rule over certain aspects of the universe, than the modern-day singular religious understanding of what makes a divine being (or several).

[Chromodoris]

Rarity also used the phrase 'with Celestia as my witness' in Sisterhooves Social.

[Brony-Vas-Normandy]

They may view her as some sort of deity, owing to her unnatural age and superior magical capabilities, but viewing her as a god would be unlikely. We know that her and Luna have not existed since the beginning, so she cannot be hailed as a 'creator', which is the foundation of most religious followings. The high praise she receives most likely comes from the show's creators not being able to come out and say, "Oh my God!" or something similar, seeing as this is a children's show not focusing towards any specific religious demographic.

So, a god? Not likely. Highly revered deity? Maybe.

[weesh]

So, a god? Not likely. Highly revered deity? Maybe.

What dictionary are you using to define "Deity"? I cannot see the distinction between your use of "a god" and "a deity".

[Brony-Vas-Normandy]

What dictionary are you using to define "Deity"? I cannot see the distinction between your use of "a god" and "a deity".

Dictionary.com:

"The estate or rank of a god:

The king attained deity after his death."

[DalkrinTheWanderer]

Wouldn't a deity be a powerful being that is not quite on the level of a god? Like titans or Demigods?

Blast... My post was rendered moot...

[weesh]

So you are saying that she has the power and authority of a god, but is not actually one? Can you explain how that makes sense? If it walks like a duck...

[DalkrinTheWanderer]

I imagine godhood having stricter prerequisits than being godly powerful. Some otherworldly influence is probably helpful.

[weesh]

I imagine godhood having stricter prerequisits than being godly powerful. Some otherworldly influence is probably helpful.

I do not have that much imagination.

I cannot picture an ersatz of a god. I can see you either being one or not.

[DalkrinTheWanderer]

Well, there can be two schools of thought on goodhood. One is, it's an actual state of being governed by laws and requirements that dictate what is and what is not a god. Another is the belief method. Basically, if enough people believe you to be a god, then you are one, powers or no. I imagine being an immaculate inconcieveably powerful winged unicorn helps with this method if that is in deed the case.

If the first is true however, then just because they have powers akin to a god doesn't make them one. They would also have to meet whatever other requirements are present.

there may be more routs to godhood that I've never considered but these two are what I know.

[starswirlthebearded]

I agree with weesh here. And you have obviously not been or known a grad student on a deadline. Twilight's reaction that entire episode looked to me how a college student who has a very prestigious mentor, whom she has never disappointed before, would react if she failed to deliver for the first time ever, because when your mentor is that prestigious there is always someone behind you waiting for you to fail and take your place. That is how I saw it at least.

And yeah, people swear to the highest power or anything that is sufficient in their mind to swear upon (parent's graves are popular).

[Brony-Vas-Normandy]

So you are saying that she has the power and authority of a god, but is not actually one? Can you explain how that makes sense? If it walks like a duck...

Not that she has the power or authority of a god, rather that because of her unique powers, she is given the respect of one, while not being officially recognized as such.

[weesh]

there may be more routs to godhood that I've never considered but these two are what I know.

It is unsatisfying to think that a being can become a god. One of the most important requirements in my book is the eternal nature. Beginning and the end, etc.

In my mind the question is "Has she always been God or will she remain short of that mark forever?"

I would guess that she is not and never will be God.

Not that she has the power or authority of a god, rather that because of her unique powers, she is given the respect of one, while not being officially recognized as such.

Thanks for clarifying. I continue to be confused as to the definition of "diety" but I can see what you are saying, and where you are coming from now.

[ChancellorPuddinghead]

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I'm personally of the view that Celestia isn't a god, though she certainly has divine qualities. But then again, depending on who you ask, we all have some degree of divinity in us. Ordinary ponies in Equestria are a little bit like gods themselves, controlling the weather, making the plants grow, etc. etc. I mean, there are some cultures that believe their ruler is a god, but I'm pretty sure the pharaohs of ancient egypt weren't really gods.

If I were to make an analogy myself, I would say that Celestia is something more along the lines of King Arthur or a monk who has attained enlightenment. Definitely not your average pony, but there's no evidence that she created the world or anything like that.

Anyway, there's lots of phrases that invoke a higher power without referring to a deity. Here's a couple from hollywood and life.

• "In the name of the King, I order you to stand down."

• "By the Authority of the Union of Allied Planets, you are hereby bound by law."

• "In the name of the moon, I shall punish you."

• "By the power invested in me by the state of -insert state here-, I pronounce you man and wife."

• "I swear on the soul of my father, Domingo Montoya, you will reach the top alive."

[ChancellorPuddinghead]

hi hi

I'm personally of the view that Celestia isn't a god, though she certainly has divine qualities. But then again, depending on who you ask, we all have some degree of divinity in us. Ordinary ponies in Equestria are a little bit like gods themselves, controlling the weather, making the plants grow, etc. etc. I mean, there are some cultures that believe their ruler is a god, but I'm pretty sure the pharaohs of ancient egypt weren't really gods.

If I were to make an analogy myself, I would say that Celestia is something more along the lines of King Arthur or a monk who has attained enlightenment. Definitely not your average pony, but there's no evidence that she created the world or anything like that.

Anyway, there's lots of phrases that invoke a higher power without referring to a deity. Here's a couple from hollywood and life.

• "In the name of the King, I order you to stand down."

• "By the Authority of the Union of Allied Planets, you are hereby bound by law."

• "In the name of the moon, I shall punish you."

• "By the power invested in me by the state of -insert state here-, I pronounce you man and wife."

• "I swear on the soul of my father, Domingo Montoya, you will reach the top alive."

The Pharoah is not a god? What? Someone inside this spoiler would like a word with you on that subject.

Didn't Rarity say ' ...and Celestia as my witness..." in the Sisterhooves Social? In the Gone with the Wind scene that mimics Scarlett and Scarlett says 'And God as my witness'

Also wouldn't she be a 'Goddess' unless Alicorns really have

it all. *cough*

[weesh]

• "I swear on the soul of my father, Domingo Montoya, you will reach the top alive."

That still sends tingles down my spine.

And as far as divine qualities are concerned, I agree completely. We should all aspire to better ourselves and follow the examples of those that exemplify perfect love.

[Firebolt]

Ever hear anyone in an older Colonial story go "By George!"? That would be King George, or if you prefer a more Revolutionary George, Washington would suffice. as many have already mentioned, people often swear by power, regardless of its earthly or Divine origin.

As far as I can see, we really haven't seen anything like actual Religion, although hints of spirituality have been popping up occasionally. I'd wager even Rarity swearing by Celestia isn't out of Deific nature, but more likely her authority and power. Judging by the Pageant, it seems that she isn't Immortal, because they aren't even mentioned by any of the players.

I could see maybe arguing her as part of a Kami/Oni style thing, or a Pantheon, but the last one is really stretching it thin. And if she were, I'd have to philosophically answer that she would be a Contingent Being and therefore, not the Necessary Being.

[Parker_Izing]

Well, in Western monotheist system, a god is who created all things an all migthy by definition, but being at least two on charge (Celestia and Luna), it could point on not a monotheist system, in Japan, people is mainly buddist, but they got 7 gods out of budda, India got gods even for lighting stove burners, and don't start on Egypt... All them arranged by ranks, or power level, Discord could be one itself (harmony and disharmony, two faces of a coin, when there's one, there's the other)... And the Mane 6 could be attained deity status via their link to elements of harmony, or even before, they had been connected before they knew.

[Acynder]

So if Celistia is god. Then would that mean if they make a SMT game out of MLP. The final boss is Celistia?