Starting Electronic Music.

[Junydabrony]

Hello everypony!

Umm, i hope i'm not asking anything stupid, but well, here goes :

I've always been a fond lover of music, and wanted to make some music myself.

After browsing the internet for a few days, I got to know about Computer- made music, and It really seemed enchanting, fairly easy to do, and also fun!

But the problem is, I really don't know where i should start, nobody around me has had any experience with this kind of things.. So I ask you musicians for help!

Please post anything that maybe helpful to a new musician just starting to write songs, such as:

What is the best program to use,

What kind of tutorials are availible, what books or online articles to read, stuff like that.

I have Garageband by the way, and I don't think I will be buying something better than that, or new equipment until i am good enough to use Garageband. (My dad would not have allowed it anyways. )x

I hope other would-be-musicians can get help here also...

See you guys later! ( Hopefully when we meet again as a fellow musician)

[Autumn]

If Garageband is all you're willing to use and you're not willing to get even a dirt-cheap midi-controller then just get advice on how to use Garageband.

(youtube is the best source for tutorials)

The only advice anyone can give beyond that is music theory and maybe the /odd/ tip on how to listen to music (to improve mastering).

Personally, I use Reason and a heap of Korg midi controllers for input.

GET a midi controller! You can pick up a Korg nanoKEY 2 for less than £35 on Amazon. That's good to get you started (unless you enjoy drawing in arpeggios with a mouse note-for-note).

Play around lots and post your tracks to soundcloud.com - Canterlot has soundcloud support so your tracks can be played inside your posts, like my one below.

http://soundcloud.com/artaxuk/unicorn-future-ressurection

Enjoy!

[Autumn]

P.s. speaking of youtube for tutorials...

This is the BEST tutorial ever created! XD

(if you don't like hiphop beats, watch anyway, it's hilarious)

[DeepBass]

Well, as Artax said, if you're not willing to put money into it, you won't get anywhere without learning how to severely tweak what you have. For instance, since I finished my first decent track, I've poured at least 500 dollars into equipment, and software, and even so, I need more. Right now, I'm working with Fruity Loops Studio 10, Fruity Loops Studio Mobile (on the iPhone), a Korg Minikey2 midi controller, Dubturbo 2.0 (For beatmapping), Sonivox Wobble (Killer software, if you know how to tweak it right) Sony Acid Studio 8, a Blue Snowball USB microphone, and a pair of Skullcandy Skullcrushers (So I can tweak the basslines to my liking). And to be honest, it's really not that easy. Electronic music still requires a decent amount of music theory, and a little bit of know-how. It also requires a decent amount of dedication. I'm not trying to sound discouraging at all. In fact, I love to hear other independent musicians. So I'd like to close on a positive note. If you put in the time, and effort, you can make something truly amazing.

[Autumn]

Well, as Artax said, if you're not willing to put money into it, you won't get anywhere without learning how to severely tweak what you have. For instance, since I finished my first decent track, I've poured at least 500 dollars into equipment,

Not really the message I'm trying to give.

You'll need to invest /something/ but you don't need to to put much money towards.

You just simply need some way of entering notes and chords into your music software.

Buying a very expensive camera does not make you a good photographer.

p.s. don't ever buy 'SkullCandy' headphones. The frequency response range is shockingly poor for price. It's VERY easy to pick up cheaper h/phones with a wider response.

SkullCandy Frequency response: 20-20K Hz £40 on Amazon

Sony MDR-XD200 Frequency response: 8-25k Hz £20 on Amazon

Those Sonys have the wider range for half the price, capable of producing much lower (bass) frequencies (8Hz) and much higher frequencies (25,000Hz.

Trend and brand-names aren't everything.

Do your research and shop smart. You won't need to spend much money at all.

[DeepBass]

I've actually compared numerous pairs, and skull candies are more suited for what I use them for.

[Junydabrony]

P.s. speaking of youtube for tutorials...

This is the BEST tutorial ever created! XD

(if you don't like hiphop beats, watch anyway, it's hilarious)

!

Woah, I was a bit confused at the beginning, but as the video resumed playing.. It got epic!

XD This guy can RAP!

---

I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?qqxtni

[Junydabrony]

Well, as Artax said, if you're not willing to put money into it, you won't get anywhere without learning how to severely tweak what you have. For instance, since I finished my first decent track, I've poured at least 500 dollars into equipment, and software, and even so, I need more. Right now, I'm working with Fruity Loops Studio 10, Fruity Loops Studio Mobile (on the iPhone), a Korg Minikey2 midi controller, Dubturbo 2.0 (For beatmapping), Sonivox Wobble (Killer software, if you know how to tweak it right) Sony Acid Studio 8, a Blue Snowball USB microphone, and a pair of Skullcandy Skullcrushers (So I can tweak the basslines to my liking). And to be honest, it's really not that easy. Electronic music still requires a decent amount of music theory, and a little bit of know-how. It also requires a decent amount of dedication. I'm not trying to sound discouraging at all. In fact, I love to hear other independent musicians. So I'd like to close on a positive note. If you put in the time, and effort, you can make something truly amazing.

Ohh thank you for the advice!

Actually, I am willing to invest a bit on equipment and stuff, but uhh..

well the problem is, even if i did have the money to buy all these equipment and software, I would have no way to buy them. Most of the time you will need to buy them online, and that would require a credit card. My parents aren't willing to let me use theirs. (They won't stop me from doing what i want to do, but they won't help me either..)

They say that if i'm going to write songs and all, I should master an instrument first. (I do play guitar, but i doubt i'll be able to 'master' it in just a few months. Those things take time...)

Well, I do think there are places here in Korea that sell equipment at shops, but I have no idea where they are. Trying to find the place itself is going to be a pretty hard task.

As for the software, I don't know if they sell them at all at stores.

That's the reason i'm sticking with Garageband....(For now anyways, heh)

[Junydabrony]

Not really the message I'm trying to give.

You'll need to invest /something/ but you don't need to to put much money towards.

You just simply need some way of entering notes and chords into your music software.

Buying a very expensive camera does not make you a good photographer.

p.s. don't ever buy 'SkullCandy' headphones. The frequency response range is shockingly poor for price. It's VERY easy to pick up cheaper h/phones with a wider response.

SkullCandy Frequency response: 20-20K Hz £40 on Amazon

Sony MDR-XD200 Frequency response: 8-25k Hz £20 on Amazon

Those Sonys have the wider range for half the price, capable of producing much lower (bass) frequencies (8Hz) and much higher frequencies (25,000Hz.

Trend and brand-names aren't everything.

Do your research and shop smart. You won't need to spend much money at all.

Thank you for the info Artax

Oh, umm, well what do you recommend/use then?

The only ones I have are :

Dr dre's in-ear earphones,

(This, I regret i bought. It breaks easily, and cost way too much. After Services are terrible too..)

And the earphones that come with the i-Phone.

And, umm, my dad bought me Audioengine's Audioengine 2.

He says it's supposed to be the best, yet cheap computer speakers. Is this good enough for monitoring? I do say, it does sound pretty cool. ( Our house is an apartment, so we probably can't turn the volume up very loud - so i think i might just go buy headphones..)

[starswirlthebearded]

I've actually compared numerous pairs, and skull candies are more suited for what I use them for.

Please tell me what pairs you tried, because I cannot believe that skullcandy out performed anything for any purpose, unless you are talking about the aviators or the mix master Mike headphones. Seriously, besides those two, I cannot think of a single redeeming feature for any skullcandy headphone I have ever tried. Ever.

I have tried out hundreds of headphones (I mean that quite literally, I've run the gamut from cheap $5 headphones to top tier $1800 headphones) and at least a dozen home and portable set ups (most expensive set up used was $5000 approximately), and the two worst companies for headphones I found were skullcandy and wesc. Skullcandy only recently redeemed themselves to me with the two aforementioned headphones.

If you want headphone advice I can certainly help there. I will say this though... Sub bass frequencies in headphones is nearly useless. All it means it's that the 20hz frequency might be a bit stronger/cleaner (might is the key word). Humans can't hear below 20hz usually, it can be felt though, but that requires full sized speakers. Headphones might be able to produce those frequencies, but you will not be able to perceive them using the headphones.

[Autumn]

Oh, umm, well what do you recommend/use then?

Meh, just go with those Sony's. They're CHEAP and seem to get great reviews on all the popular web-markets.

The follow two remixes I did some time ago were both produced using MDR-XD200... works for me

http://soundcloud.com/artaxuk/fable-prelude-xbox-remix

http://soundcloud.com/artaxuk/donkeykong-country-waterambiance-teaming-ocean

Today I'm using Sony MDR-XB700 which have a frequency response of 3Hz to28,000kHz which, without going 'professional', is perhaps the widest range for less than £100 with great big cushions so you can wear for hours.

[Junydabrony]

Oh yeah, One more thing -

The last time I visited America,

I bought a bunch of books that I thought might help me out.

They are :

1. THE DESKTOP STUDIO -Emile D. Menasché

2. Getting Started In Computer Music -Mark Nelson

3. How Music Works - John Powell

I'm going to read all of them, of course, but I have been pressed for time lately, and I don't know which one would be better to read first - All of them seem so interesting.

Should I start at the very basics, and learn more about music itself before I start to try and make my own?

Or should I just start by learning the program itself, and toy with it a little, and get used to it?

Anyways, thank you for your replys!

They were very helpful c:

[Autumn]

If you want headphone advice I can certainly help there. I will say this though... Sub bass frequencies in headphones is nearly useless. All it means it's that the 20hz frequency might be a bit stronger/cleaner (might is the key word). Humans can't hear below 20hz usually, it can be felt though, but that requires full sized speakers. Headphones might be able to produce those frequencies, but you will not be able to perceive them using the headphones.

You won't hear the frequencies, but you _feel_ them. Feeling is part of hearing when listening.

The lower frequencies also help to shape other frequencies. Admittedly, some do better than others, but there is a purpose to having whale-call freqs and canine whistles. :">

[Autumn]

Oh yeah, One more thing -

~

I bought a bunch of books that I thought might help me out.

They are :

1. THE DESKTOP STUDIO -Emile D. Menasché

2. Getting Started In Computer Music -Mark Nelson

3. How Music Works - John Powell

~~~ All of them seem so interesting.

Should I start at the very basics, and learn more about music itself before I start to try and make my own?

Or should I just start by learning the program itself, and toy with it a little, and get used to it?

From my experience, I started out using Amiga-based trackers and worked my way up to the level I am now (not very good). I learnt the software without even considering a book.

But, when I did go through a basic music theory book and started applying what I'd learnt from it, things started making ALOT more sense to me.

It's totally up to you. If you find the books boring, it doesn't mean you won't get the hang of it.

What you /should/ be doing is, instead of listening to all of us bicker over what software/hardware's best (not one of us will be right, as it's a personal thing), you should have your music making thingys open and making little dittys and beats... just simply... playing. See what you can come up with.

http://www.zebrastripe.net/stuff1/giggleghosties_16bit.mp3

[starswirlthebearded]

You won't hear the frequencies, but you _feel_ them. Feeling is part of hearing when listening.

The lower frequencies also help to shape other frequencies. Admittedly, some do better than others, but there is a purpose to having whale-call freqs and canine whistles. :">

Headphones, in my experience don't have the power to effectively feel those sub bass frequencies. That said, I agree, if the ability to go that low is there, it usually improves the other frequencies.

In a moderate price range, I cannot recommend the Sony MDR-V6 enough. They don't have as much bass or go as low iirc as the xb series, but the overall sound is top class in its price range. And there is a reason why the MDR-V6 was a standard studio (as in a large amount of studios used the V6) headphone until it was replaced with the MDR-7506.

[Autumn]

Headphones, in my experience don't have the power to effectively feel those sub bass frequencies.

Check the impedance on both ends. It may not be the headphone's fault.

as an example. Mp3 players like iPods simply arn't capable of driving larger... drives. That's why those that know about audio will pick up Cowon or another player.

This can be the same with larger players and computer soundcards and speaker/headphone jacks.

There seems to be a fairly recent realisation and trend in this as headphone amplifiers are becoming more popular and cheaper.

[starswirlthebearded]

Check the impedance on both ends. It may not be the headphone's fault.

as an example. Mp3 players like iPods simply arn't capable of driving larger... drives. That's why those that know about audio will pick up Cowon or another player.

This can be the same with larger players and computer soundcards and speaker/headphone jacks.

There seems to be a fairly recent realisation and trend in this as headphone amplifiers are becoming more popular and cheaper.

I haven't used an iPod in years. My current portable set up is a Cowon J3. When I tested out the xb series it was the Cowon D2.

As for home testing, I have an audiogd nfb-11. Do believe me when I tell you I give headphones every shot I can. And the bass felt from full sized speakers (my friends paradigm speakers set up) was incomparable, and I honestly could not recall feeling those sub bass frequencies in any headphone I have ever tried. Perhaps when I get HE-500s that will change. However, for now they improve the perceivable frequencies, but aren't powerful enough at a comfortable listening level to actually feel the true bass (by comfortable, I mean feeling no pain, I went as loud as I could without having that level). Even when testing for volume distortion at max I couldn't feel it.

perhaps it's because I'm used to feeling it through speakers. But I haven't felt those frequencies though headphones, or if I did I did not recognize it due to knowing how it feels through speakers. I don't really know.

[DeepBass]

Please tell me what pairs you tried, because I cannot believe that skullcandy out performed anything for any purpose, unless you are talking about the aviators or the mix master Mike headphones. Seriously, besides those two, I cannot think of a single redeeming feature for any skullcandy headphone I have ever tried. Ever.

I have tried out hundreds of headphones (I mean that quite literally, I've run the gamut from cheap $5 headphones to top tier $1800 headphones) and at least a dozen home and portable set ups (most expensive set up used was $5000 approximately), and the two worst companies for headphones I found were skullcandy and wesc. Skullcandy only recently redeemed themselves to me with the two aforementioned headphones.

If you want headphone advice I can certainly help there. I will say this though... Sub bass frequencies in headphones is nearly useless. All it means it's that the 20hz frequency might be a bit stronger/cleaner (might is the key word). Humans can't hear below 20hz usually, it can be felt though, but that requires full sized speakers. Headphones might be able to produce those frequencies, but you will not be able to perceive them using the headphones.

Well, I've used everything from Koss to Sony, and even Beatz. I found the Skullcrushers by Skullcandy to be better for the price, and they tend to bring out the bass in my production, which allows me to fine tune it to how I want it. I'm not saying there isn't anything better, because I'm sure there is, but for $50 they're pretty darn good.

[DannyMirage]

If you're planning to go the route of FL studio start with LMMS, it's a free program and loads many sound fonts and comes with plenty of sounds to get you started. If you end up liking it I would advise you get FL studio, you can load vsti programs like massive or FM8. Look up drum samples on forums or websites. Word of advice though, worry about about your melody and rhythm first, the sounds don't matter so much at the very beginning you can add effects and change the sound of your bass and synth later. Always organize your work, don't slop it together, otherwise it'll take you longer to figure out what you're doing than you'll want. Last and not least, effects on everything. Bass, drums, synth, everything except for samples with effects already on them I don't like to use those though. You always want "dry" vocals (vocals without effects) and little to no backing vocals. The last thing I'm going to say is make sure your track has a good balance, equalizing works wonders.

[Autumn]

If you're planning to go the route of FL studio start with LMMS, it's a free program and loads many sound fonts and comes with plenty of sounds to get you started. If you end up liking it I would advise you get FL studio, you can load vsti programs like massive or FM8. Look up drum samples on forums or websites. Word of advice though, worry about about your melody and rhythm first, the sounds don't matter so much at the very beginning you can add effects and change the sound of your bass and synth later. Always organize your work, don't slop it together, otherwise it'll take you longer to figure out what you're doing than you'll want. Last and not least, effects on everything. Bass, drums, synth, everything except for samples with effects already on them I don't like to use those though. You always want "dry" vocals (vocals without effects) and little to no backing vocals. The last thing I'm going to say is make sure your track has a good balance, equalizing works wonders.

Disclaimer: The above is someone's personal preference.

As I've said, do your own experimenting. You might want to start with a simple kick drum then lay a bass line and work from there. Don't EVER set yourself to someone else's way of working.

Same with programs. Try several different ones or just work with what you've got. Eventually you'll find something comfortable.

Don't ever let anyone tell you to always do something in particular. Once again, they're just stating their own personal preference.

If you follow a recipe you'll end up with the same things as other people.

[DannyMirage]

Disclaimer: The above is someone's personal preference.

As I've said, do your own experimenting. You might want to start with a simple kick drum then lay a bass line and work from there. Don't EVER set yourself to someone else's way of working.

Same with programs. Try several different ones or just work with what you've got. Eventually you'll find something comfortable.

Don't ever let anyone tell you to always do something in particular. Once again, they're just stating their own personal preference.

If you follow a recipe you'll end up with the same things as other people.

That's true, that's just my method of madness