S03 E04: "One Bad Apple"

[starswirlthebearded]

Are you saying any fiction where character doesn't use 100% looking at the situation after it happened logic and never makes a mistake is bad?

I guess anything where characters are guided by emotion or isn't perfect just isn't up to snuff

Nope, but I'd like it to make sense. I actually like many revenge driven stories. However, when it makes sense within context. This did not make sense within context, as it potentially involved others that were uninvolved. They potentially involved innocent people in their prank. Instead of going after just Babs, which could have been done many different ways, they chose a method that could easily go wrong and hurt more people. They thought this up, spent an entire night preparing it. They had plenty of chances to clear their head and do something more direct, yet chose not to. I would not have had an issue if they chose a different method of revenge. Heck, I'd even sympathize with them. Because they chose the method they did, I cannot sympathize with them.

I don't think anyone understands, it isn't the revenge, it is the method they chose. And in case I wasn't clear before, I consider it bad writing because I feel that it was chosen for the express purpose of allowing to save Babs at the last second and allowing for the retribution scene. Being unable to think of another method with the story that she had built up she chose sabotage as the method that would work for that situation. Despite it not making any sense. They wanted to humiliate her, no matter what the outcome of that prank, humiliation was not a likely outcome. It just wasn't going to happen. Thus the prank was never going to achieve its goal. However it was going to achieve the goal for the episode, which was allow for retribution and show that revenge is not the right way to go with bullying and rather you should tell an adult. IF the prank was better chosen it could have achieved both of the goals, probable humiliation and allowance for a retribution scene. The episode would have been better for it.

Oh and for the record... When I figured out they were sabotaging the float I paused it hoping I was wrong. When I found out I wasn't, I was just angry at the whole situation. And I figured it out when they were acting menacing when they were building it. So my anger just built up over half of the episode almost. That probably exasperated my negative feelings towards this episode. It wasn't even hindsight. IT WAS AS IT WAS HAPPENING. Even without hind sight it should be obvious that the action they were taking wouldn't have worked.

[elsporko]

It does make sense

1. They know Babs will take things they like

2. Babs trashed their other float, they are building off of that

3. They want Babs to be the center of attention, the float idea accomplishes that.

4. If Babs doesn't fall for it then they still get to ride on the float.

5. The Cutie Mark Crusaders have shown they are not good at looking ahead. In the past they ran into a dangerous forest to get a chicken, spread rumors without considering consequences, and have used potions without considering the long term effects twice.

6. If I remember correctly they came up with the idea and executed it quickly, staying up all night to do so. That doesn't leave many opportunities to consider other options

7. Once they took time to think they did realize it was over the top. They just didn't think about it in the heat of the moment, which is like how they have acted in previous episodes. One of their main character traits is they get stuck on something and hyper focus without really thinking about it until later

Looking back as a rational adult without severe emotional attachment there are many other possibilities to consider, but treating the characters is a way that doesn't coincide with your personal beliefs and experiences doesn't make it poorly written

[starswirlthebearded]

It does make sense

1. They know Babs will take things they like

2. Babs trashed their other float, they are building off of that

3. They want Babs to be the center of attention, the float idea accomplishes that.

4. If Babs doesn't fall for it then they still get to ride on the float.

5. The Cutie Mark Crusaders have shown they are not good at looking ahead. In the past they ran into a dangerous forest to get a chicken, spread rumors without considering consequences, and have used potions without considering the long term effects twice.

6. If I remember correctly they came up with the idea and executed it quickly, staying up all night to do so. That doesn't leave many opportunities to consider other options

7. Once they took time to think they did realize it was over the top. They just didn't think about it in the heat of the moment, which is like how they have acted in previous episodes. One of their main character traits is they get stuck on something and hyper focus without really thinking about it until later

Looking back as a rational adult without severe emotional attachment there are many other possibilities to consider, but treating the characters is a way that doesn't coincide with your personal beliefs and experiences doesn't make it poorly written

That's all well and good except for one thing. It doesn't stand up to the simple question of "how will this humiliate Babs?" Sweetie bell was questioning things the entire episode and that is the one time she chose to stay silent?

If that question could have been asked and the whole plan not come into doubt, I would have been fine. The fact is that they didn't ask that question because there is no answer to it that wouldn't have caused the episode to run over time.

Edit: I've just thought of a way for them to have used that prank without annoying me. All it would have taken is changing a few lines. If they had done it as a booby trap in case Babs stole it. And their intent was for it to fail in that event it would have been cool by me. Because then it would achieve teaching Babs to but mess with them or steal from them. And their actions would have made sense for their goal. However as it stands, then putting Babs as the first of honor and thus leading the parade and sabotaging the float was an elaborate effort to humiliate. Which again makes no sense. Putting her at the center of attention did, but not sabotaging the float.

[elsporko]

Babs appears incompetent and foolish for not being able to drive a float.

Its along the same lines as tripping somebody and embarrassing them.

[starswirlthebearded]

Babs appears incompetent and foolish for not being able to drive a float.

Its along the same lines as tripping somebody and embarrassing them.

Yes, because falling over yourself and crashing a float are comparable.

[elsporko]

The intent and embarrassing consequences of the pranks are similar.

Ignoring the fact that this is a cartoon about magical ponies, so they are physically stronger then real life magical ponies, the fact that the prank is over the top and unsafe helps the message of the story and it is not strange for a group of hyper active traumatized children to not fully consider consequences of their actions

[starswirlthebearded]

The intent and embarrassing consequences of the pranks are similar.

Ignoring the fact that this is a cartoon about magical ponies, so they are physically stronger then real life magical ponies, the fact that the prank is over the top and unsafe helps the message of the story and it is not strange for a group of hyper active traumatized children to not fully consider consequences of their actions

The consequences and effects aren't similar. One is crashing something motorized, the other is a person tripping. The reason why one works and the other doesn't is public perception. The first reaction would be worry rather than anything else. We saw that with the reaction of the mane 6 when the CMC crash. Do you really think it would have been any different of they hadn't knocked Babs out of the float?

Also, traumatized is a rather strong word to use to describe the CMC in this situation, but that is another beast entirely.

[elsporko]

See the various points I have made about CMC not thinking through their actions very well as well as the point I made about children in general.

[starswirlthebearded]

See the various points I have made about CMC not thinking through their actions very well as well as the point I made about children in general.

It isn't about the possible consequences but the intended result.

The possible consequences just add annoyance to my feelings of the episode.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

People tend not to think rationally when they're angry, especially not kids. They did state that they wanted to humiliate Babs, but the motivation and the intent was to pay her back for two weeks worth of suffering in a single moment. Furthermore, although Featherweight did take a photo of them after they crashed, it is worth pointing out that nobody in the crowd laughed at them when they crashed, onlookers were worried and concerned, so its not like the episode was implying that it actually would have been an embarrassment. The writer is acknowledging that it was a dumb idea and didn't make sense, which is pretty typical of revenge.

[NoGiantRobots1983]

For what its worth, earlier today I posted a revised review of the episode on my Fimfiction blog.

It wound up being long. If you want to read the full version, here it is, but for those who don't have entire lifetimes, here's the Reader's Digest Condensed Edition:

Some of my earlier points are repeated. I still find the whole situation unrealistic ("unrealistic" with regards to the internal logic of the show) and feel like the Cutie Mark Crusaders are out-of-character. I mean, they bounced back from all of Ponyville hating them in "Ponyville Confidential", but one mean cousin from Manehattan and suddenly they're scaredy-cats.

A new angle I added was: Scoots is an athlete and Apple Bloom is a farm girl. It's unrealistic that they would be bullied to any extent by spoiled rich kids and a city slicker (when I was in school, it was always the rich kids and city slickers who got bullied by the athletes and farm kids).

Also, I feel like the story would've been more believable if, say, Apple Bloom had stopped Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon from even targetting Babs in the first place. Like a "sticking up for your kin" kinda thing. (I didn't say this, but I honestly thought of doing a rewrite where Apple Bloom does exactly this. So instead of becoming a bully, Babs ends up kinda idolizing Apple Bloom and relying on her for protection. And then DT and SS catch her in a moment where AB isn't around)

Which brings me to the most major change, I noticed another problem with the episode's "go tell an adult" message: If you can't prove you were actually being bullied, it comes down to your word vs theirs, and bullies will always deny everything, claim its a misunderstanding, or whatever. So really, what AB and co. should've done is tried to convince Featherweight to snap a photo of Babs Seed in action, THEN run to the adults).

... Here's hoping this take is less controversial than what I said previously.

[EquestriaUnicorn]

Good episode and a good message. I liked how Babs wasn't a bully for no reason and the conclusion made sense. It also teaches those who may become bullies to not do it because the people you bullied may rig your car to drive off a cliff

It's only a matter of time before someone does that to Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon.

[tacobob]

Yeah, Scootaloo just looked like she was going to go into serious berserker mode towards the end there..But being what this show is mainly catered to, they couldn't show her and Apple Bloom beating the snot out of Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon...Not like that wouldn't be awesome...Hmmph.

[NoGiantRobots1983]

Yeah, Scootaloo just looked like she was going to go into serious berserker mode towards the end there..But being what this show is mainly catered to, they couldn't show her and Apple Bloom beating the snot out of Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon...Not like that wouldn't be awesome...Hmmph.

I honestly don't see why they can't, as long as they do it in a cartoony way.

I mean, the CMC beat the snot out of each other at the beginning of "Return of Harmony." Although I'm guessing its because Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon are really more "annoying" than actually malicious, outright bullies.

[tacobob]

And I wonder if we'll ever see Diamond's mother. We know her father has seen her misbehave in public before..And you can see he does not approve of it, but he doesn't really seem to do anything about it, so what would her mother do what he doesn't do? And why would she be afraid of her mother knowing about her bratty behavior. She probably knows. I took that whole last scene as her and Silver being afraid not of what Babs was saying, but how she was saying it.

[Bellosh]

More Babs Seed on the way?

We will see Babs seed again in a future episode/season I mean she's the 4th CMC for ponys sake! & adorable. Good enough?

[tacobob]

More Babs Seed on the way?

Should be interesting to see if she brings along her own team of CMCs

[TotalEcplise]

Rewatches the episode...

-Um, why the heck where SS and DT on the Apple's property with no supervision anyway?

-Love how when DT and SS fell off the train station a pig with a tiara came up along side Silver Spoon instead Diamond Tiara.

-Its official for me, Sweetie Belle's voice is the most adorable thing ever.

-Pinkie continues to break physics(PS, I don't believe that was her float, I just don't). How do you deny someone else the ability to break physics then do it yourself(Swatted away aroma trails from a floating Spike, just so that she could comical float towards the food.) Then she and a cow were eating the float, which was clearly made of wood on the inside. I don't think it was real lettuce until pinkie wanted to eat it.

[DanteBlack]

Finally Silver spoon's and Diamond tiara's bullying comes to light.

[tacobob]

-Its official for me, Sweetie Belle's voice is the most adorable thing ever.

Bronyville did an podcast awhile ago where they interviewed the three VAs who do the CMCs. Apparently Sweetie Belle's squeak is not done on purpose...

http://bronyshow.com/?p=917

[Rosewind]

I watched the last few minutes of this episode again (specifically after Babs is inducted into the CMCs) when they're at the train station. I think the point behind the entire episode really drops the ball if you're really paying attention to the story as a whole:

1. CMCs conclude that knocking someone into mud is bully behavior and unacceptable.

2. At train station, Babs resolves to talk to an older pony about her bully problem back home.

3. Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon appear and start to bully in front of AJ. Does she say anything? No, she just frowns with the CMCs. So much for number 2.

4. Babs responds to them by falsely lunging at them, causing them to trip backward into mud.

5. See #1.

6. CMCs and AJ laugh at DT and SS in mud, which trashes pretty much everything the episode was trying to build up to in the last few moments.

However, since DT and SS are antagonists, that's okay, and the take-away message is that those who bully will eventually get what they deserve through retribution, regardless of the cause of their behavior.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

While I think they were trying to go for some kind of metaphorical "Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon defeated themselves, because nopony laid a hoof on them," angle at the end, I think you're right anyways. It does sort of... muddy the issue. *ducks for cover.*

[Bellosh]

While I think they were trying to go for some kind of metaphorical "Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon defeated themselves, because nopony laid a hoof on them," angle at the end, I think you're right anyways. It does sort of... muddy the issue. *ducks for cover.*

Booooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *throws mud in Ginger's direction*

By this point, I don't thing DT and SS will ever be portrayed sympathetically by the writers, but oh well.

[Rosewind]

Booooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *throws mud in Ginger's direction*

By this point, I don't thing DT and SS will ever be portrayed sympathetically by the writers, but oh well.

It would be a genius use of creative writing to reveal why they act that way. I'm sure we'll see more of them in time to come.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I would not be surprised if Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon get an episode where we get a chance to see them in a sympathetic light, eventually. In fact, I think they're probably setting up the groundwork for it already. Silver Spoon wasn't entirely rotten in Family Appreciation Day, she was one of the first to applaud Granny Smith after her story, and we got to see that Diamond Tiara's behavior isn't entirely overlooked by her father. I think there's been some hints that Silver Spoon actually cares about what Diamond Tiara thinks, and that it might be part of the reason why she acts that way.