Official Discussion Thread - S04E07 Bats!

[Bellosh]

Thinking on the episode, I have to give it a 3.5 out of 5. I was entertained by much of the episode and especially by the song, but ultimately, it didn't do enough to convince me that Fluttershy had the right position all along. Maybe if we saw the vampire fruit bats suffer from Twilight's spell, I would have felt sorry for them. But simply having Fluttershy turn into a bat hybrid thanks to Twilight's incompetence frankly isn't enough to convince me that AJ didn't have the more logical POV.

[SteelEagle]

Thinking on the episode, I have to give it a 3.5 out of 5. I was entertained by much of the episode and especially by the song, but ultimately, it didn't do enough to convince me that Fluttershy had the right position all along. Maybe if we saw the vampire fruit bats suffer from Twilight's spell, I would have felt sorry for them. But simply having Fluttershy turn into a bat hybrid thanks to Twilight's incompetence frankly isn't enough to convince me that AJ didn't have the more logical POV.

Agreed completely. We debated at length on Skype but the general consensus was that it was a tough problem to solve and the show didn't seem to give us any real reasoning for why Fluttershy was right.

[starswirlthebearded]

Agreed completely. We debated at length on Skype but the general consensus was that it was a tough problem to solve and the show didn't seem to give us any real reasoning for why Fluttershy was right.

Nor AJ (just that she was wrong). There were better ways to deal with the problem, but all would take longer than one episode and probably more complicated than the core demographic would have appreciated.

Though it was a fun episode, it really ranks only slightly higher than power ponies (which was also fun). And that's mostly because of the song.

This episode didn't wow me like it did so many others.

Fwiw... The perfect solution would probably have been a combination of FS and AJs ideas.

Also I didn't like how they effectively dodged the problem of the episode by using flutterbat.

[arrowghost]

We can't blame her when she's doing anything to save her orchard without sacrifice. After all, a separate orchard doesn't mean the bats will stay in one place. What will happen when the section runs out of apples and later the bats have to get out again and eat. So...yeah, an idea that doesn't sound good until they decide to apply it anyways. Sadly, there also goes her prize winning giant apple too. Now if only they could squeeze out some apple juice from many smaller apples and then emit the scent without actually destroying the giant apple itself. Oh well, sometimes it's a last minute plan in order to save their friend quickly better than just delay to find surviving apples.

[P51Mustang]

I actually thought FlutterBat was very well done. At the beginning of the episode we know what FS and AJ's positions were. AJ didn't really see the Vampire Bats as another living creature, just a pest that needed to be stamped out. Fluttershy turning into FlutterBat actually forced AJ to change her thinking on the Vampire Fruit Bats because now one of her friends was a Vampire Fruit Bat. I'd admit it didn't really make sense to me at first, but after reading and listening to other talk about it, the sequence of events actually make sense.

[tacobob]

Probably the best solution was to call the Pony-Pest-Patrol and have them cage the bats and take them somewhere else, considering how quickly they were wiping out the Apple Family apple groves..And they'd be in pretty bad shape if they lost their year's crops, and I'm guessing what's bad for the Apple family is bad for Ponyville...

[arrowghost]

Well, Taco, pest control is much better. It may cost a lot for their service, but it's better than losing more apples again and the loss is much bigger than just a call from the pest control.

[P51Mustang]

Well I don't think the idea of pest control exist in Equestria.

[arrowghost]

Other than parasprites too, in fictions, it will be founded. Manehattan especially, I heard various news that New York suffer a lot of bed bugs problem in their hotels' mattresses.

[SteelEagle]

Well I don't think the idea of pest control exist in Equestria.

It does. Shots of the Swarm of the Century show the Apple family barricade, AJ holding what looks like a pesticide gun.

Not a biggie since it makes total sense since you kinda need that for a orderly farm.

[QuickLime]

Well yeah but it's sorta disturbing because all the critters seem sentient so

[Rosewind]

I think Steel is bitter that what should have been an AJ-focused episode ended up delegating her to her rightful place in the background after the initial presentation of the problem.

[tacobob]

I think Steel is bitter that what should have been an AJ-focused episode ended up delegating her to her rightful place in the background after the initial presentation of the problem.

Boo! Hiss! SEND OUT THE ANGRY MOB!

[SteelEagle]

Well yeah but it's sorta disturbing because all the critters seem sentient so

Prairie dogs are sentient. So are rabbits. A whole host of animals are sentient and farmers still, how does one say, removes them from their mortal coil in a very regular basis. And here, AJ was just wanting them off of her land or to stop eating her apples. The issue when we discuss animals in a natural environment versus animals on a farm is that a farm is not part of the natural environment. It is a piece of land controlled and manipulated towards a purpose, and things that get in the way of that are routinely dealt with. Pest control is required for the actions of a farm to continue in an orderly manner.

The first half of the episode was really interesting as it set up this conflict between what needed to happen and what should happen. Flutterbat destroyed it. And to an extent Rose, you are right. As an Applejack fan it gets downright annoying when any glimmer of interesting conflict between her and the others is drowned out by something meme worthy. Last Roudnup, who cared about the main storyline and the characterization? No one, because Derpy. Who here is debating the moral dilemma at the heart of this episode? No one, because Flutterbat.

#409 will be a Pinkie and Applejack episode in theory, guarantee you Applejack will be overshadowed by something again.

[starswirlthebearded]

Conflict? What conflict? That existed for a bit after the song. The only one opposed was FS. And she has no backbone, so instead of meaningful conflict you had 5v1 peer pressure. The conflict was decided the minute the others sided with AJ.

[SteelEagle]

Conflict? What conflict? That existed for a bit after the song. The only one opposed was FS. And she has no backbone, so instead of meaningful conflict you had 5v1 peer pressure. The conflict was decided the minute the others sided with AJ.

Not if the second half had expounded on it and gave others doubt. Instead, it was Flutterbat.

[starswirlthebearded]

Not if the second half had expounded on it and gave others doubt. Instead, it was Flutterbat.

Honestly for that scenario to work they would have needed one of two things... 1) someone else on FS's side as she was presented in the episode or 2) a more assertive FS. Considering how the writers tend to characterize her, 1 would have been more likely.

However that makes the episode trickier to write for the target audience. The way it played out was very much how I expected a Williams episode to play out. Granted, it was better than others and far more entertaining, but from what I've seen of her writing, I can't see her writing a conflict with a diplomatic solution to a moral conflict that would be interesting for the target audience. Had another writer taken it, it probably could have been done and the episode would have been better for it. But from what I have seen of Williams she can set up but not resolve conflict well.

And fwiw the best aj episode is still last round up. However the set up for the conflict was lacking in that. I just couldn't buy into the logic... This however nerfed aj more in terms of interesting character development.

[SteelEagle]

Honestly for that scenario to work they would have needed one of two things... 1) someone else on FS's side as she was presented in the episode or 2) a more assertive FS. Considering how the writers tend to characterize her, 1 would have been more likely.

Yep, which could have easily happened in an improved second half.

However that makes the episode trickier to write for the target audience. The way it played out was very much how I expected a Williams episode to play out. Granted, it was better than others and far more entertaining, but from what I've seen of her writing, I can't see her writing a conflict with a diplomatic solution to a moral conflict that would be interesting for the target audience. Had another writer taken it, it probably could have been done and the episode would have been better for it. But from what I have seen of Williams she can set up but not resolve conflict well.

Agreed. Williams did better than a lot of her other efforts but screwed the pooch on resolution.

And fwiw the best aj episode is still last round up. However the set up for the conflict was lacking in that. I just couldn't buy into the logic... This however nerfed aj more in terms of interesting character development.

Roundup made sense, epic pride in the way of clear thinking but I agree that the setup was iffy. Resolution was better. And this nerfed AJ a lot.

Farm mare, spends her whole life living for it, but somehow Fluttershy knows that these bats will help the orchard and the farmer doesn't have an inkling that it may work or is a possibility? haha, what? I want to see a future episode where Fluttershy fails to deal with an animal and Aj has to do it and knows oh so much more, Because as it stands, the ending to this episode is stupid and I don't buy it- no evidence that these bats will help leads me to believe that it is wishful thinking that everypony goes along with because poor resolution writing.

[starswirlthebearded]

Roundup made sense, epic pride in the way of clear thinking but I agree that the setup was iffy. Resolution was better. And this nerfed AJ a lot.

Farm mare, spends her whole life living for it, but somehow Fluttershy knows that these bats will help the orchard and the farmer doesn't have an inkling that it may work or is a possibility? haha, what? I want to see a future episode where Fluttershy fails to deal with an animal and Aj has to do it and knows oh so much more, Because as it stands, the ending to this episode is stupid and I don't buy it- no evidence that these bats will help leads me to believe that it is wishful thinking that everypony goes along with because poor resolution writing.

Yes, the overall episode made sense, but the logic used to make the episode made none. They basically made it her responsibility to fix the town hall. And while a promise probably means much to her, I don't think she'd place the town hall over her family. The logic felt forced. It made sense to the point where it was believable, but the set up and logic for why she couldn't come back right away could have been done better.

As for this episode everything comes back to lack of info. We don't know enough about agriculture in Equestria, we don't know squat about the fruit bats. The argument that AJ made was that they were parasitic where as FS made the argument that they were symbiotic. We don't know what happened after the farm had time recover last time. It might have flourished. The short term state of the farm was only seen which was terrible. It is possible that they could exist in a symbiotic relationship though. In the end we don't know. Chances are that's what they were playing at. They could have answered questions much better though. Williams is still probably the weakest writer of FiM. The episode was fun, bit it lacked something. And that something was completeness. Nothing felt like a complete story. It felt like they took the script and removed several pages for the same of time and those pages were necessary for the overall story. Like they decided to forgo a great story and tell an okish one that was fun. Rather than a great story that was still fun.

(BTW the more I talk about it the less I like it)

[P51Mustang]

I still stand by the theory that Flutterbat works in the storyline because it forces Applejack to view the Vampire Fruit Bats as beings with their own self worth. At the beginning of the episode, she just saw them as the worthless pest that needed to be driven out of the orchard. However, with one of her friends as a Vampire Fruit Bat, a friend that the rest of the mane six forced to use the stare, she had to re-think her approach because she can't just simply write Fluttershy off as another worthless pest.

What should've happened in the episode was that they needed to spend more time on AJ changing her way of thinking, I think if they did that, it would've tied everything together better. Because yea, on the surface the episode does come off as disjointed and random. Hel, I thought the same thing till I listened to a few podcast and been in other conversations where they brought up the role of FlutterBat. The episode also could've faired better if AJ wasn't the antagonist. Both Fluttershy and Applejack had valid points and neither one of them was really in the wrong. The antagonist should've been the bats.

As for Applejack being overshadowed. Honestly, that's kind of the curse of the "straight man/pony". Applejack is often the foil of the antics of the other mane six, so yea, the antics will overshadow the foil because that's how the relationship between the foil and the antics work. Applejack has some very strong points and characterization and she is a pretty well thought out character. She's just a straight pony, doing a straight pony job.

[SteelEagle]

I still stand by the theory that Flutterbat works in the storyline because it forces Applejack to view the Vampire Fruit Bats as beings with their own self worth. At the beginning of the episode, she just saw them as the worthless pest that needed to be driven out of the orchard. However, with one of her friends as a Vampire Fruit Bat, a friend that the rest of the mane six forced to use the stare, she had to re-think her approach because she can't just simply write Fluttershy off as another worthless pest.

What should've happened in the episode was that they needed to spend more time on AJ changing her way of thinking, I think if they did that, it would've tied everything together better. Because yea, on the surface the episode does come off as disjointed and random. Hel, I thought the same thing till I listened to a few podcast and been in other conversations where they brought up the role of FlutterBat. The episode also could've faired better if AJ wasn't the antagonist. Both Fluttershy and Applejack had valid points and neither one of them was really in the wrong. The antagonist should've been the bats.

As for Applejack being overshadowed. Honestly, that's kind of the curse of the "straight man/pony". Applejack is often the foil of the antics of the other mane six, so yea, the antics will overshadow the foil because that's how the relationship between the foil and the antics work. Applejack has some very strong points and characterization and she is a pretty well thought out character. She's just a straight pony, doing a straight pony job.

See, but having Fluttershy be a bat doesn't change at all what is happening to the orchard nor does it change the nature of the problem. The problem with the episode is that they set up the conflict and then walked away from it, and we got some hamfisted, confusing,unexplained happy ending where they allow in because what? There is no evidence to suggest that the bats will stay in their sanctuary and even if they do, the orchard sees no benefit- any trees that will grow will grow in the sanctuary! Honestly, the second half of the episode the more I think about it is a royal screwjob.

[P51Mustang]

See, but having Fluttershy be a bat doesn't change at all what is happening to the orchard nor does it change the nature of the problem. The problem with the episode is that they set up the conflict and then walked away from it, and we got some hamfisted, confusing,unexplained happy ending where they allow in because what? There is no evidence to suggest that the bats will stay in their sanctuary and even if they do, the orchard sees no benefit- any trees that will grow will grow in the sanctuary! Honestly, the second half of the episode the more I think about it is a royal screwjob.

In a world where magical force-field is a thing as well as flying tortoise, you don't think they can come up with a way to keep the Vampire Fruit Bats from going outside their boundaries? I mean they've been able to keep the Fruit Bats contained in the west orchard, so apply the same thing to the Vampire Fruit Bats.

As for the seed, I'm sure AJ and the rest of the Apples will set up some seed-collecting system where they can then distribute it to the other parts of the orchard.

[SteelEagle]

In a world where magical force-field is a thing as well as flying tortoise, you don't think they can come up with a way to keep the Vampire Fruit Bats from going outside their boundaries? I mean they've been able to keep the Fruit Bats contained in the west orchard, so apply the same thing to the Vampire Fruit Bats.

As for the seed, I'm sure AJ and the rest of the Apples will set up some seed-collecting system where they can then distribute it to the other parts of the orchard.

Yeah, and because of those fruit bats they lost that section of the orchard and haven't been able to tend to it for a long time. These vampire fruit bats appear far more voracious- there is not a scenario I can envision where this benefits the Apple family. Even if they have to go and collect the seeds, doesn't that mean eventually because of the vampire bats' voracious appetite that their little sanctuary will be bereft of food? They can either starve then or they leave their sanctuary, either to attack other farms or the rest of SAA.

[P51Mustang]

Yeah, and because of those fruit bats they lost that section of the orchard and haven't been able to tend to it for a long time. These vampire fruit bats appear far more voracious- there is not a scenario I can envision where this benefits the Apple family. Even if they have to go and collect the seeds, doesn't that mean eventually because of the vampire bats' voracious appetite that their little sanctuary will be bereft of food? They can either starve then or they leave their sanctuary, either to attack other farms or the rest of SAA.

I'm sure Fluttershy will be glad to lend a hoof in keeping the Vampire Fruit Bats in check.

You know...I kinda wonder why they haven't asked Fluttershy to help them reclaim the west orchard.

Okay, Fluttershy is seriously under-utilized as an animal expert.

[arrowghost]

But she did say for being too kind, she must have forgotten that if she decides to be too kind and creates the separate orchard dedicate for the bats, the whole orchard on the other parts will be nothing left, hence the famine and Ponyville has nothing to eat other than some others that doesn't involve apples.