Does no one want the show to be about friendship anymore?

[QuickLime]

It was two episodes, there is no need to spew that much venom over it? They compared it to dbz because the fight scene was pretty epic, not because we want mlp to be DBZ now.

[CommanderPonyShep]

It was two episodes, there is no need to spew that much venom over it? They compared it to dbz because the fight scene was pretty epic, not because we want mlp to be DBZ now.

The fight scene also made Twilight's friends useless and disposable, and Twilight herself so overpowered that her friends are obsolete and might as well be murdered for the benefit of her story-arc.

[smileyface1010]

The fight scene also made Twilight's friends useless and disposable, and Twilight herself so overpowered that her friends are obsolete and might as well be murdered for the benefit of her story-arc.

Dude, I would stop comparing it to DBZ. Your'e not really helping me understand your arguments and like Quicklime said, people only compared the fight scene to DBZ because it was epic. And the only reason the whole plot of the finale focused on Twilight because, I don't know, shes the main character? And this was her key episode? The rest of the mane six already did their part. (Just for the record, this only goes for the season four finale, since in the Crystal Empire and EQG, there was no reason to throw away Twilights friends and focus on only her)

[CommanderPonyShep]

Dude, I would stop comparing it to DBZ. Your'e not really helping me understand your arguments and like Quicklime said, people only compared the fight scene to DBZ because it was epic. And the only reason the whole plot of the finale focused on Twilight because, I don't know, shes the main character? And this was her key episode? The rest of the mane six already did their part. (Just for the record, this only goes for the season four finale, since in the Crystal Empire and EQG, there was no reason to throw away Twilights friends and focus on only her)

And, three of the five key episodes were considered the worst, including Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy, and Applejack's. This, in-turn devalued the contributions they made to the overarching season-long story-arc, alongside possibly Rarity and Pinkie Pie's key episodes.

[QuickLime]

The fight scene also made Twilight's friends useless and disposable, and Twilight herself so overpowered that her friends are obsolete and might as well be murdered for the benefit of her story-arc.

"Might as well be murdered" ? What?

[starswirlthebearded]

Her friends were not rendered useless. She wasn't winning. She didn't have the control she needed to win. You are reading far too into the comparison. In fact they came to a stalemate, that is why Tirek used his trump card, aka HER FRIENDS (and thus rendering the friends to be very relevant since Twilight needed the power of friendship to win, ergo her friends were very relevant). If you want to compare it to DBZ, it would be Krillan's tragedy [read death] triggering Goku's ascention to Super Saiyajin. Without Krillin and his subsequent death Goku would have lost against Freiza. That makes Killin VERY relevant as a tragic death trope, which caused the greatest change in Goku. But honestly... the fight scene was very DBZ-esque (powerblasts flying and the like; the same was said of the Agent Smith/Neo fight in Matrix 3), but that is about it. Nothing else about the episode was anything like DBZ.

[CommanderPonyShep]

Her friends were not rendered useless. She wasn't winning. She didn't have the control she needed to win. You are reading far too into the comparison. In fact they came to a stalemate, that is why Tirek used his trump card, aka HER FRIENDS (and thus rendering the friends to be very relevant since Twilight needed the power of friendship to win, ergo her friends were very relevant). If you want to compare it to DBZ, it would be Krillan's tragedy [read death] triggering Goku's ascention to Super Saiyajin. Without Krillin and his subsequent death Goku would have lost against Freiza. That makes Killin VERY relevant as a tragic death trope, which caused the greatest change in Goku. But honestly... the fight scene was very DBZ-esque (powerblasts flying and the like; the same was said of the Agent Smith/Neo fight in Matrix 3), but that is about it. Nothing else about the episode was anything like DBZ.

Krillin was also an example of the Woman in Refrigerator trope, if applied to men like him. He practiced martial arts for years, and yet he gets pointlessly murdered because his power levels were "lower" than Frieza's. If it weren't for Goku, Krillin and the huge variety of other martial artists Goku ever knew would have grown powerful without him. Even Bulma would regain her relevancy, if only through science and technology instead of martial arts, or lack thereof!

And Twilight's friends were all damsels in distress. Their uselessness were traded away for the empowerment and character-development of Twilight Sparkle.

Besides, have you seen Anita Sarkeesian's videos? She said that the average damsel in distress and woman in refrigerator are both rendered useless and pushed by the sidelines, for the benefit and empowerment of their male rescuers. She even said that Princess What's-Her-Name from Earthworm Jim was a joke relating as to how damsels in distress were normally so unimportant and meaningless, that they remained unnamed or were otherwise unmemorable!

Also, let's not forget about the Rainbow Power and the Mane Five's own thrones in the Rainbow Castle. They gave them relevancy again to Twilight, and you hated both because of their designs and other reasons. In-turn, you unintentionally implied that you want Twilight's friends to be useless and disposable, and Twilight the number one, ultimate godlike savior at the expense of her friends!

[smileyface1010]

And, three of the five key episodes were considered the worst, including Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy, and Applejack's. This, in-turn devalued the contributions they made to the overarching season-long story-arc, alongside possibly Rarity and Pinkie Pie's key episodes.

Yes, but we hated these episodes for reasons. In my opinion, Rainbow Falls has too many plotholes to be considered good, Breezies was okay, and I found Leap of Faith boring (yes, I did say this earlier) we didn't hate these episodes because they we're key episodes. In fact, I bet if these eps weren't key episodes, this arguement wouldn't be happening.

[CommanderPonyShep]

Yes, but we hated these episodes for reasons. In my opinion, Rainbow Falls has too many plotholes to be considered good, Breezies was okay, and I found Leap of Faith boring (yes, I did say this earlier) we didn't hate these episodes because they we're key episodes. In fact, I bet if these eps weren't key episodes, this arguement wouldn't be happening.

When people deal with the fact that so many of Goku's friends are rendered useless and disposable, they lose their minds. But when Twilight's friends become like that themselves, then no one bats an eye.

[smileyface1010]

When people deal with the fact that so many of Goku's friends are rendered useless and disposable, they lose their minds. But when Twilight's friends become like that themselves, then no one bats an eye.

I see what your saying here. When Twilight gets little attention like she did at the beginning of season 4, everyone gets all worked up over it. But when her friends are pushed off to the side, not many people adress it (key word: not many) But this is because she is the MAIN character, she needs to get a little more screen time

[CommanderPonyShep]

I see what your saying here. When Twilight gets little attention like she did at the beginning of season 4, everyone gets all worked up over it. But when her friends are pushed off to the side, not many people adress it (key word: not many) But this is because she is the MAIN character, she needs to get a little more screen time

Beginning of Season Four? As in the Season Four premiere, right?

At least when you look at DC Comics, it doesn't focus so heavily on Superman, that every other superhero in the DC universe are rendered useless. The reason is because they are given equal focus as each other. Same for Marvel Comics; even though Spider-Man and Wolverine are the most profitable superheroes in Marvel Comics, they aren't the only ones, because we have Captain America, The Hulk, Iron-Man, Thor, etc.

[QuickLime]

Rainbow Falls was bad because of the Wonderbolts being jerks, not because of Rainbow Dash, It's not Easy being Breezie was terrible because the Breezies were sorta bad characters and it was another weh poor flutters episode.

[smileyface1010]

Beginning of Season Four? As in the Season Four premiere, right?

At least when you look at DC Comics, it doesn't focus so heavily on Superman, that every other superhero in the DC universe are rendered useless. The reason is because they are given equal focus as each other. Same for Marvel Comics; even though Spider-Man and Wolverine are the most profitable superheroes in Marvel Comics, they aren't the only ones, because we have Captain America, The Hulk, Iron-Man, Thor, etc.

Sorry, I worded that weird. By 'beginning' I really meant those scenes like the one in Rarity Takes Manehattan where Princess alicorn Twilight Sparkle couldn't get a cab and stuff like that.

About the superhero comparison... yeah, I could agree with you there. Marvel and DC do treat their superheroes equally. But the problem is that Spiderman, Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, etc are all different branches, of Marvel, same goes for DC. These characters are treated equally, but thats because their usually in different movies and comics, just like a TV channel treats its shows equally.

And I guess I should point out the obvious here... yes, in the Avengers, I would say that all the characters are being treated equally. But thats just like any crossover movie/tv special, of course the characters would be treated equally.

Wait... wasn't I talking about ponies a few minutes ago?

[RarityDash]

I still say people tend to make far too big a deal out of the themes than they should. Even putting that aside for a moment though, I would say it's a little extreme to say the show is not about friendship anymore after the finale. If Twilight has more of the focus than she did before in the finales and openers, she has also become one of the least visible nearly everywhere else.

We can't act like the seventeen episodes that weren't part of the overarching storyline did not exist or weren't important in their own way. Those episodes made up the majority of the season after all! Twilight only had a starring role in three of these episodes arguably, and in them she bonded with her sister in law, acted as a friend and mentor to the CMC and ended up learning an important lesson while trying to teach her friend Rainbow Dash. They were episodes built on her bonds with others, just like the others got, and just like Twi herself has always got.

I don't really see, I guess how Twi occasionally assuming the focus takes away from all that. Since the pilot she has been set up as the protagonist. In the very first season, the set up was that she was the one learning the friendship lessons, even when it was her friends who were involved. She is the core element of magic that only appears once she realizes the true nature of the Elements of Harmony. Still early on, before many were complaining about anything in Return of Harmony, it is Twilight alone who must fight off Discord's influence on her own by reminding herself of all she's learned and realize how to save her friends.

Thinking about it even more though, I really don't see how much of anything has changed. Even in the latest finale, even in that battle with Tirek, Twilight did not win. She could not beat Tirek even with all of the princesses power, and it was because of her friendship that she eventually lowered her head and let Tirek win. It was only when she received her key to the box, a box which required a key from all six of them, that they were able to beat Tirek. If anything, that's more about friendship than ever. That fight was really fun to watch and people loved it, but all it really did was prove that alone Twilight would not be able to save the day.

[Halide]

So, based on the fact that literally nobody agrees with OPs absurd comparisons or the idea that the entirety of the cast is useless save Twilight, I think we can basically say "Everyone wants the show to be about friendship, and the show is still about friendship."

Can we please call this thread done now?

[smileyface1010]

Yep, I think we're done here

[CommanderPonyShep]

About the superhero comparison... yeah, I could agree with you there. Marvel and DC do treat their superheroes equally. But the problem is that Spiderman, Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, etc are all different branches, of Marvel, same goes for DC. These characters are treated equally, but thats because their usually in different movies and comics, just like a TV channel treats its shows equally.

And I guess I should point out the obvious here... yes, in the Avengers, I would say that all the characters are being treated equally. But thats just like any crossover movie/tv special, of course the characters would be treated equally.

Which is what doesn't describe Dragon Ball Z.

When I learned that Goku was technically Superman in-terms of origin-story (hailing from a destroyed planet and an extinct race) and power-set (flying, super-strength, super-speed, lasers, but through his hands instead of his eyes, etc), my first assumption was that all of those other martial-artists he was friends with were his personal Justice League. Turns out they weren't, because their job was to die and demonstrate the power levels of each new villain.

And that was probably Funimation's first assumption as well. The reason they not only dubbed, but also popularized Dragon Ball Z over Dragon Ball Classic was simply because of how ridiculously similar Goku was to Superman, again in-terms of origin story and superpowers. And like me, they then automatically assumed that many of Goku's friends were his own little Justice League as well, despite the fact that they were useless and disposable compared to the actual Justice League.

What they never realized, though, was how manga functioned differently from American comics. A single character's American comic franchise can be written by multiple authors, which is why they've continued to live on after several hundred issues. This also results in these characters sharing the same universe as characters from other franchises of their own. A manga, on the other hand, is written by only one single author, and as a result is its own self-contained universe.

This was one of Funimation's many downfalls when they dubbed DBZ. They automatically assumed that Goku's friends had their own spin-off franchises as well, even though they never did. As a result, they gave us a supporting cast who may seem resourceful because of their martial arts skills (or in Bulma's case, scientific and technological skills) but in reality were just disposable and designed to demonstrate the power levels of each new villain.

In other words, they gave us one of the anime industry's worst supporting casts without realizing it or caring, all because of false assumptions of Japan's anime and manga culture.

And that's what describes MLP. Six main ponies, and their designated leader is also so powerful, that she rarely needs her teammates to help her at all. Even other team-leaders like Optimus Prime (Transformers), Duke (G.I. Joe), Leonardo (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles), and Jason Lee Scott and his numerous Red Ranger successors (Mighty Morphing Power Rangers) didn't reduce their respective teammates into disposable objects, and they were as much product placement as Twilight and Goku combined!

[RarityDash]

Hate to say it, but I really don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. The people at Funimation are not stupid. It's not like Dragon Ball, one of the best performing manga in Japan of all time, was something that just appeared before them from out of nowhere. Funimation was founded by a Japanese man, actually, who wanted specifically to bring Dragon Ball to an American audience. They knew exactly what it was. They knew how manga/anime worked. No one was assuming there were any spin-offs to anything. It was not some experiment by inept people who didn't know what they were doing. it was a deliberate and massively successful effort by people to bring something that had been proven popular with one audience to another.

That said, you can talk about Dragon Ball Z or any other shounen manga series that prefers to power up it's protagonist to new and greater levels as opposed to bothering with their supporting casts all you like, but I really don't see how it's supposed to tie back in to and apply to FIM. What exactly is your point? People compare the fight scene in the finale to DBZ because it bears somewhat of an aesthetic similarity to it (and any number of other action anime really, I'd say); that's as far as it really goes. Twilight at time assumes the focus, but so what? The great bulk of the show is in the episodes in between the event episodes, and Twilight's friends are the focus there just as much or more than she is. Every single one of them is critical to the series now and has been since the very first episodes. The show continues to be about the bonds of friendship between the characters. The finale changed nothing in regards to that.

[CommanderPonyShep]

Hate to say it, but I really don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. The people at Funimation are not stupid. It's not like Dragon Ball, one of the best performing manga in Japan of all time, was something that just appeared before them from out of nowhere. Funimation was founded by a Japanese man, actually, who wanted specifically to bring Dragon Ball to an American audience. They knew exactly what it was. They knew how manga/anime worked. No one was assuming there were any spin-offs to anything. It was not some experiment by inept people who didn't know what they were doing. it was a deliberate and massively successful effort by people to bring something that had been proven popular with one audience to another.

That said, you can talk about Dragon Ball Z or any other shounen manga series that prefers to power up it's protagonist to new and greater levels as opposed to bothering with their supporting casts all you like, but I really don't see how it's supposed to tie back in to and apply to FIM. What exactly is your point? People compare the fight scene in the finale to DBZ because it bears somewhat of an aesthetic similarity to it (and any number of other action anime really, I'd say); that's as far as it really goes. Twilight at time assumes the focus, but so what? The great bulk of the show is in the episodes in between the event episodes, and Twilight's friends are the focus there just as much or more than she is. Every single one of them is critical to the series now and has been since the very first episodes. The show continues to be about the bonds of friendship between the characters. The finale changed nothing in regards to that.

And, most of those other episodes weren't considered good. You need to remember that Twilight's Kingdom was the finale to not only the fourth season, but also to an entire story-arc dedicated to unlocking a box containing Rainbow Power and a Rainbow Castle with six keys. And unfortunately, three of these episodes, including Rainbow Falls, It Ain't Easy Being Breezies, and Leap of Faith, were considered the worst of the six key episodes, mostly due to sloppy writing.

But really, I don't care about bad writing, even if I'm perfectly aware of it. What I care more about is relevancy for the supporting cast, and Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy, and Applejack received tons of relevancy with their own key episodes, as did Pinkie Pie, Rarity, and of course, Twilight Sparkle. The reason is because I had to deal with the complete lack of relevancy to Goku's own supporting cast, and the way they were shoved to the sidelines because of their non-saiyan origins. Again, at least with Optimus Prime, Duke, Leonardo, and every Red Ranger in the Power Rangers series, they don't end up pushing their respective teammates -- including the Autobots, G.I. Joe, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and the Power Rangers -- by the wayside. Instead, they utilize them in the most efficient way possible, despite their differences in power. Sure, those aforementioned hero teams and their leaders were designed to market and sell toys like Twilight Sparkle and Goku, but unlike the latter and his own franchise, Dragon Ball Z, those four toy franchises all promoted teamwork and mutual aid, instead of going at it alone while everyone else dies to demonstrate the villains' power-levels.

Besides, if there was any way I could defend those three episodes, which I should've done a long time ago, I'd say the following:

1. Rainbow Falls dealt with Rainbow Dash's conflicting loyalties. She was given a relay race flight team that can't fly very well, and were competing against a more experienced flight team in the form of the Wonderbolts. As soon as Soarin' was shoved to the sidelines by his own teammates, Rainbow had to choose between a superior, more experienced team, and the friends she cared about for a long time.
   
2. It Ain't Easy Being Breezies was about balancing between kindness and assertiveness. Sea Breeze acted as a foil to Fluttershy, in that while the latter was softly asking the breezies to leave but end up submitting to them, Sea Breeze was yelling orders to the other breezies. The two then learn from each other the importance of being kind without being neither too submissive nor too aggressive.
   
3. Leap of Faith dealt with brutal honesty versus blissful lies. Applejack wanted to tell Granny Smith that the Flim Flam Brothers' de-aging potion was actually fake, but could not because her grandmother was experiencing the placebo affect from it. So, she either had to break her grandmother's heart and tell her the truth, or let her remain ignorant and happy. In a way, you could say that this episode shared the same theme as the Matrix Trilogy, which also dealt with blissful ignorance versus brutal honesty by using the blissful-yet-artificial world of the Matrix and comparing it with the brutal, post-apocalyptic real-world.
   

Even with all of their plot-holes and contrivances, those three key episodes did what they were written and animated to do: Challenge the girls' beliefs and moral values toward their respective Elements of Harmony by providing them multiple solutions that have no right or wrong answer, and receive keys as a result. That goes for Pinkie Pride and Rarity Takes Manehattan. As a result of all that, the Mane Five received just as much storyline significance as Twilight Sparkle in her own key episode.

And yet all you ever care about are the plot-holes, as if the Mane Five's relevancy doesn't matter at all, like you want them to be disempowered, made useless and disposable, or even brutally murdered in-exchange for the empowerment and character-development of Twilight Sparkle.

[RarityDash]

Not considered good by who? That's ridiculous. Some of the very best episodes of the season had nothing to do with the plot arc at all.

The problem you seem to be having is that your putting words in the mouths of people here. Personally, I adore Leap of Faith as I said earlier in the thread and would count it as one of the best episodes of season four. I do really hate Breezies, but it's not because of any plot holes. It's because it's insipid, obnoxious and not funny. Rainbow Falls meanwhile, I think is kind of middling; the second half is fairly effective in doing what it needs to do, but the beginning is slow and somewhat contrived. It's the only of the three where I would point at the were there might be some kind of hole causing the problem.

That's beside the point though, as whatever the merits of those episodes are, I certainly don't want what you say I want. Why would I? My favorite pony is Rarity. Twilight places fifth in my ranking of the mane six. I want to see everyone get attention from the writers. I just don't see where they are not getting that attention. The characters had more than just their key episodes this season. Each of the mane six had at least three episodes where they were ta focal character. How is anyone getting shoved aside here? I just don't fundamentally see it. Because someone didn't think one Fluttershy episode was good it follows they must now think she is expendable and want her dead? That makes no sense at all. People say an episode is bad simply because they think that episode is bad.

[smileyface1010]

I can't really say more than what Rarity said, and even though I might disagree on the opinions of those three episodes, you make a good point.

[SteelEagle]

You make a lot of wild, baseless assumptions that frankly make no sense at all. It get vexxing to read you spewing the same stuff while seemingly ignoring points that you don't like. Worse, you keep on stating things as if they were facts again and again. Applejack's key episode seems to be one of the more liked episodes of the season. Rainbow's episode was not well liked not because of Rainbow or even the plot, but because of Wonderbolt characterization. These points do not support you at all yet you continue to state them. More importantly, you keep on going on about Dragonball Z but you don't seem to understand why the comparison.was ever made in the first place. People aren't comparing it favorably thematically. They just liked a cool fight scene. You didn't because it made one character more important than the others? I understand that. I even agree to an extent.

But it has been that way since the very start of the show. It was, and is, always about Twilight. Pilot episodes? Twi. Return of Harmony? Twi. Crystal Empire? Twi. Magical Mystery Cure? Twi. Princess Twilight Sparkle? Twi. This is a show about Twilight Sparkle and her five friends. It has always been that way. How you got through all of this as well as Equestria Girls and finally broke because people liked a fight scene doesn't make an iota of sense to anyone other than yourself.

[CommanderPonyShep]

Not considered good by who? That's ridiculous. Some of the very best episodes of the season had nothing to do with the plot arc at all.

The problem you seem to be having is that your putting words in the mouths of people here. Personally, I adore Leap of Faith as I said earlier in the thread and would count it as one of the best episodes of season four. I do really hate Breezies, but it's not because of any plot holes. It's because it's insipid, obnoxious and not funny. Rainbow Falls meanwhile, I think is kind of middling; the second half is fairly effective in doing what it needs to do, but the beginning is slow and somewhat contrived. It's the only of the three where I would point at the were there might be some kind of hole causing the problem.

That's beside the point though, as whatever the merits of those episodes are, I certainly don't want what you say I want. Why would I? My favorite pony is Rarity. Twilight places fifth in my ranking of the mane six. I want to see everyone get attention from the writers. I just don't see where they are not getting that attention. The characters had more than just their key episodes this season. Each of the mane six had at least three episodes where they were ta focal character. How is anyone getting shoved aside here? I just don't fundamentally see it. Because someone didn't think one Fluttershy episode was good it follows they must now think she is expendable and want her dead? That makes no sense at all. People say an episode is bad simply because they think that episode is bad.

Here's the thing. The reason why I'm always comparing My Little Pony to Dragon Ball Z is that both have a useless supporting cast who gets shoved by the wayside, just to turn the hero into the number one ultimate savior in the universe, who never needs help from anyone. This idea of "ultimate savior" keeps the supporting cast from growing and developing into heroes in their own rights, and makes them appear weak and disposable, even if they have their own powers and capabilities that makes them resourceful in their own unique ways.

Not to mention, if I were to compare Mass Effect -- another series about space aliens -- with Dragon Ball Z, I'd say the former tells a better message than the latter. With Dragon Ball Z, only saiyans are the most powerful species in the universe, because of their capabilities in increasing their own powers to god-levels. As a result, this keeps other species from growing and evolving as well, from Earthlings to Namekians, while saiyans like Goku and Vegeta become the only things to save the universe. In other words, Goku is no better than his villains, in that he's part of a species that is so powerful, that it stunts every other species' growth and development.

Mass Effect, on the other hand, promotes the opposite message: That regardless of what species you are, you are still capable in your own unique ways. For example, the quarians have practically non-existent immune systems, which means even the most minor diseases can make them sick, or kill them. So, they always have to wear those environmental suits to protect themselves. But unlike the saiyans from DBZ, the quarians almost always prove that even the most physically frail of species can contribute to the whole galactic community, especially with their fleet strength to combat the Reapers. Hell, with a little help from Shepard's targeting laser, the entire quarian fleet was able to bombard a Reaper Destroyer in its red eye, and kill it!

I don't see Mass Effect's message promoted in My Little Pony's Season Four finale, at least up until the ending with the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle. If anything, its message almost feels like Dragon Ball Z's "divine right" message over Mass Effect's message about diversity. Even the fans are promoting DBZ's counter-productive message over Mass Effect's, namely by liking the Twilight/Tirek fight over the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle, despite the latter two promoting friendship and diversity like the Mass Effect trilogy.

Yes, I'm perfectly aware that you actually don't want MLP to go DBZ, because that would've stripped the show of its friendship motif. But that's what I'm seeing right now: People believing that divine right trumps diversity, where if you're an alicorn or a saiyan, and not, say, an earth pony or quarian, then you're the most dominant thing in the universe. And, it's unintentional!

[RarityDash]

Here's the thing. The reason why I'm always comparing My Little Pony to Dragon Ball Z is that both have a useless supporting cast who gets shoved by the wayside, just to turn the hero into the number one ultimate savior in the universe, who never needs help from anyone. This idea of "ultimate savior" keeps the supporting cast from growing and developing into heroes in their own rights, and makes them appear weak and disposable, even if they have their own powers and capabilities that makes them resourceful in their own unique ways.

And the point I'm trying to make is this is not at all true. The show is more than just the big season opener and closers episodes. Twilight isn't even featured in a lot of episodes. The show is about the other five as much as it is her. The characters are well developed.

The finale explicitly wasn't the situation you were talking about. Twilight never got the better of Tirek on her own. She needed her friends to win. Twilight never does anything entirely on her own with no help. Even during that fight, the strength she uses to keep up with Tirek is strength she has only borrowed from friends (the other princesses, in this case) who have placed their trust in her. The series is not becoming DBZ at all.

Yes, people like the fight and don't like Rainbow Power, but what you need to understand is the reasons they do. It has nothing to do with any kind of themes at all. People like the fight because people like seeing things explode and characters fly around and fire energy blasts at each other (a lot of why DBZ was so popular too). People don't like Rainbow Power because the transformed character designs don't look good to them (personally, only half of them look good to me, so I can understand that). I have heard no one say they wanted to see Twilight use her princess magic to beat Tirek solo in that fight without her friends. People like how the finale unfolded from what I have observed; they like how the box was brought into it; they like all of it. They just think the Rainbow Power designs don't look good. It's a simple thing.

[starswirlthebearded]

Here's the thing. The reason why I'm always comparing My Little Pony to Dragon Ball Z is that both have a useless supporting cast who gets shoved by the wayside, just to turn the hero into the number one ultimate savior in the universe, who never needs help from anyone. This idea of "ultimate savior" keeps the supporting cast from growing and developing into heroes in their own rights, and makes them appear weak and disposable, even if they have their own powers and capabilities that makes them resourceful in their own unique ways.

Not to mention, if I were to compare Mass Effect -- another series about space aliens -- with Dragon Ball Z, I'd say the former tells a better message than the latter. With Dragon Ball Z, only saiyans are the most powerful species in the universe, because of their capabilities in increasing their own powers to god-levels. As a result, this keeps other species from growing and evolving as well, from Earthlings to Namekians, while saiyans like Goku and Vegeta become the only things to save the universe. In other words, Goku is no better than his villains, in that he's part of a species that is so powerful, that it stunts every other species' growth and development.

Mass Effect, on the other hand, promotes the opposite message: That regardless of what species you are, you are still capable in your own unique ways. For example, the quarians have practically non-existent immune systems, which means even the most minor diseases can make them sick, or kill them. So, they always have to wear those environmental suits to protect themselves. But unlike the saiyans from DBZ, the quarians almost always prove that even the most physically frail of species can contribute to the whole galactic community, especially with their fleet strength to combat the Reapers. Hell, with a little help from Shepard's targeting laser, the entire quarian fleet was able to bombard a Reaper Destroyer in its red eye, and kill it!

I don't see Mass Effect's message promoted in My Little Pony's Season Four finale, at least up until the ending with the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle. If anything, its message almost feels like Dragon Ball Z's "divine right" message over Mass Effect's message about diversity. Even the fans are promoting DBZ's counter-productive message over Mass Effect's, namely by liking the Twilight/Tirek fight over the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle, despite the latter two promoting friendship and diversity like the Mass Effect trilogy.

Yes, I'm perfectly aware that you actually don't want MLP to go DBZ, because that would've stripped the show of its friendship motif. But that's what I'm seeing right now: People believing that divine right trumps diversity, where if you're an alicorn or a saiyan, and not, say, an earth pony or quarian, then you're the most dominant thing in the universe. And, it's unintentional!