CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 For me, I'd rather compare it to Sailor Moon, like her final battle with Super Beryl at the end of the first series of the anime version. Even if Tirek was male and masculine compared to the more effeminate Queen Beryl and Queen Metalia, Twilight was more comparable with Sailor Moon than Goku. Goku is just too masculine a character to compare with a female character designed to appeal to young girls. Sailor Moon, on the other hand, is a better comparison, because she appeals to young females just as much as Twilight, compared to Goku and his appeal to young boys.I'd also like to compare it with Twilight's final battle with Queen Chrysalis in the comics, which was almost the same situation. Like Tirek a year or two later, Queen Chrysalis also held Twilight's friends hostage, but in-exchange for her services as the changeling queen's new apprentice, not just her magic. And then, a big, dumb magic fight ensues; Twilight enhances her magic with the Secretariat Comet to fight Chrysalis, while her friends cheered from the sidelines to ensure her victory. This wasn't like the Twilight/Tirek fight, where first the villain fought the hero, then forced her to surrender in-exchange for her friends' safeties.And you know what's ironic about the Twilight/Chrysalis fight? I had too much of a problem with Twilight receiving tons of power to fight Tirek in-exchange for the helplessness and victimization of her friends. But when that same kind of situation was applied to Queen Chrysalis instead of Tirek, I don't even bat an eye! Why? I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 It could be possible sexism since Chrysalis is a female and Tirek not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 It could be possible sexism since Chrysalis is a female and Tirek not so much.I don't think it has anything to do with sexism.More likely, it's because people compare the Twilight/Tirek fight with DBZ more than the Twilight/Chrysalis fight, which felt more appropriate despite the latter fight also sharing stuff with DBZ, such as laser blasts and explosions. I would've liked to see the fight be compared to anything other than one of the most overrated anime to have ever come out. The reason is because, when you think about it, there are plenty of other fight-based anime that try to do what DBZ did, but at the same time avoided some of the same traps and pitfalls as that series. For example, One Piece's Luffy shared some of the same personality traits as Goku, such as the stupidity, the food addiction, and the willingness to endure tons of punishment to protect his friends. But at the same, unlike Goku's friends, Luffy's Straw Hat Pirate crew -- even the weakest members like Usopp and Nami -- never get left behind in-terms of relevancy and character-development, and on the contrary actually help Luffy win each battle, namely by fighting off the henchmen to clear a path for their captain.Hell, the Straw Hats had helped Luffy so much, that they ended up stealing most of the spotlight meant for their captain! Eiichiro Oda noticed this problem from his fans and their complaints, so he fixed it by separating him from his entire crew, and sending him off on a solo mission to rescue his brother, Portgas D. Ace. This wasn't like DBZ, where even though Goku did not have a story-arc, let alone a good one, he always stole spotlight from his albeit useless friends with his dramatically increasing power levels.But you get where I'm coming from. There are tons of other anime that are vastly superior to DBZ, and might as well be comparable with both the Twilight/Chrysalis fight and the Twilight/Tirek fight instead of DBZ. Hunter X Hunter rarely even had as much fighting as DBZ, or rarely had fighting period, and even that's comparable with the two fights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 DBZ is just what comes to mind for some people when they see power balls being shot at things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 DBZ is just what comes to mind for some people when they see power balls being shot at things.This is a negative review of Dragon Ball Z, written in 1998: http://www.themanime...view.php?id=245 In it, Carlos Ross, the reviewer, gave it 2 stars out of 5 for the way it traded away all notion of storytelling and character-development for the sake of long, slow-paced apocalyptic violence.Therefore, DBZ isn't a good comparison for Twilight's fight with Tirek, or Hell her fight with Queen Chrysalis in the comics. If you're going to compare that fight with something, compare it to something good. Again, the Twilight/Chrysalis fight comes to mind for me, because it's the same situation: Villain holds hero's friends hostage in-exchange for her magic, and a big magic fight to determine their fate ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I think it's a good comparison, You can bring up articles up to try and support your opinion, but DBZ was actually my first Anime and I rather like it, It looks rather dbz with the power balls and intense movements, it's NOT DBZ but when I saw the episode that came to mind.Please do not tell me what to compare things to, stop trying to control other peoples opinions.edit: Plus I haven't actually read the end of the Chrysalis storyline in the comics, I only have the first two in the set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 People compare it to DBZ because DBZ is popular, and is very likely the INSPIRATION for the scene itself...because those writing/storyboarding may probably have nostalgias for DBZ themselves.There's no 'problem' here, it's a single comparison - but one that has absolutely nothing to do with *anything else* except show peoples appreciation of the scene and it's inspirations!Don't keep digging for things that aren't there, you're only going to keep getting yourself wound up about this whole thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I for one was very glad to see the intense action scene in a show actually aimed at young girls, most "girl shows" avoid conflict but MLP has no issue handling conflict if need be, and in the end violence was getting Twilight nowhere, so she had to compromise, and it was only after she allowed herself to be weakened and stood by her friends was she even capable of defeating Tirek . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I think it's a good comparison, You can bring up articles up to try and support your opinion, but DBZ was actually my first Anime and I rather like it, It looks rather dbz with the power balls and intense movements, it's NOT DBZ but when I saw the episode that came to mind.Please do not tell me what to compare things to, stop trying to control other peoples opinions.What about the Twilight/Chrysalis fight in the comics? That was the same way as the Twilight/Tirek, more so than DBZ. It was the same situation: Twilight's friends were held hostage, her magic was being enhanced by an external source -- in this case a comet rather than three other princesses' alicorn magic -- and a big magic fight to determine the fate of her friends ensued.Also, Twilight and Goku go together like Strawberry Shortcake and Spawn, or Care Bears and Deathstroke the Terminator. They both target opposite genders like those two pairs of aforementioned examples, which means Twilight is more appropriately comparable with Sailor Moon, and in my opinion will always be. Besides, Sailor Moon was the same way as MLP today: It transcended its own genre by aiming for a periphery audience in the form of teenage boys rather than just young girls, due to its art-style, animation, story, and action.Also...People compare it to DBZ because DBZ is popular, and is very likely the INSPIRATION for the scene itself...because those writing/storyboarding may probably have nostalgias for DBZ themselves.There's no 'problem' here, it's a single comparison - but one that has absolutely nothing to do with *anything else* except show peoples appreciation of the scene and it's inspirations!Don't keep digging for things that aren't there, you're only going to keep getting yourself wound up about this whole thing!Just because it's popular doesn't save it from Carlos Ross giving it a 2 out 5 for its violence and lack of story. Even RoboCop was more intelligent than DBZ, and yet it had as much adult violence as DBZ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 What about the Twilight/Chrysalis fight in the comics?As said, I actually don't know about that as I only have the first 2 comics in that story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 As said, I actually don't know about that as I only have the first 2 comics in that storyDoes no one even read the comics? I sure do, because my house is closest to a comic book store, where I get to purchase all the MLP comics I want! Plus, the comics are almost the only thing to tide me over until Season Five arrives, even if they aren't canon.Also, the story-arc did in-fact end with a final battle between Twilight and Queen Chrysalis. By the time the girls reach Queen Chrysalis herself, her changeling minions covered Twilight's friends in their saliva to hold them hostage. Queen Chrysalis then offers Twilight a chance to join her as her new apprentice, in-exchange for the safety and well-being of her friends. Like with Tirek a year later, Twilight complied, but the changeling queen still kept her friends captive so that she could feed on her magic, while her minions fed on their love for their leader and friend. And then, a big magic fight ensues; Twilight's magic gains a dramatic boost from the Secretariat's Comet as she fights Chrysalis, while all of her friends cheer for her on the sidelines to ensure her victory. Eventually Twilight's magic grew so powerful, that she created an explosion that knocked out the changeling queen and defeated her.And like I said, I had no problem with the Twilight/Chrysalis fight, but I lose my mind over the Twilight/Tirek fight, not so much its context but rather the people's constant comparison with this and an anime series that received 2/5 stars on ThemAnime.org for its lack of story and overreliance on apocalyptic violence. And I just don't understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Does no one even read the comics? I sure do, because my house is closest to a comic book store, where I get to purchase all the MLP comics I want! Plus, the comics are almost the only thing to tide me over until Season Five arrives, even if they aren't canon.Also, the story-arc did in-fact end with a final battle between Twilight and Queen Chrysalis. By the time the girls reach Queen Chrysalis herself, her changeling minions covered Twilight's friends in their saliva to hold them hostage. Queen Chrysalis then offers Twilight a chance to join her as her new apprentice, in-exchange for the safety and well-being of her friends. Like with Tirek a year later, Twilight complied, but the changeling queen still kept her friends captive so that she could feed on her magic, while her minions fed on their love for their leader and friend. And then, a big magic fight ensues; Twilight's magic gains a dramatic boost from the Secretariat's Comet as she fights Chrysalis, while all of her friends cheer for her on the sidelines to ensure her victory. Eventually Twilight's magic grew so powerful, that she created an explosion that knocked out the changeling queen and defeated her.I read the comics that I HAVE , alas they are rather expensive and very hard to find in my area =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetSombra Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Just because it's popular doesn't save it from Carlos Ross giving it a 2 out 5 for its violence and lack of story. Even RoboCop was more intelligent than DBZ, and yet it had as much adult violence as DBZ!Somebody elses opinion on something, no matter who they are, is just their opinion...I don't see how citing something like one guy giving it 2/5 is any different to others giving it a 4.YOU are clearly using it to support an "I'm right, you're wrong" argument about what people enjoy - and if thats all you're going to do when confronted, this discussion simply won't go anywhere at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I give it a 100 stars out of 10, so therefore DBZ is best anime so I'm right!..See that really doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Somebody elses opinion on something, no matter who they are, is just their opinion...I don't see how citing something like one guy giving it 2/5 is any different to others giving it a 4.YOU are clearly using it to support an "I'm right, you're wrong" argument about what people enjoy - and if thats all you're going to do when confronted, this discussion simply won't go anywhere at all.Okay, I'm sorry.Can we focus on the topic? I just want people to compare the Twilight/Tirek fight with something else other than Dragon Ball Z. Nothing else, really!Again, I compare the fight with the Twilight/Chrysalis fight in the comics' first story-arc, because it's the same situation: Friends are held hostage, Twilight increases her magic from an external source, magic fight ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well you can't MAKE people do that alas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well you can't MAKE people do that alas.I'm not making people compare the Twilight/Tirek fight with something else other than DBZ. I'm just letting them decide on their own, and if they don't want to post, then that's their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarityDash Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The fact that the fight relies entirely on beam attacks makes it hard to compare it with much else really. I've seen a ton of anime, but I can't remember anything with quite as many energy blasts in it as DBZ. And that's the thing. Literally the only reasons anyone compares it to the fight in DBZ is a) because they're both full of flashy energy blasts and b) because DBZ is iconic and prevalent in pop culture far beyond any other anime (except maybe Pokemon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderPonyShep Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The fact that the fight relies entirely on beam attacks makes it hard to compare it with much else really. I've seen a ton of anime, but I can't remember anything with quite as many energy blasts in it as DBZ. And that's the thing. Literally the only reasons anyone compares it to the fight in DBZ is a) because they're both full of flashy energy blasts and b) because DBZ is iconic and prevalent in pop culture far beyond any other anime (except maybe Pokemon).The Twilight/Chrysalis fight also had tons of laser blasts shot between Twilight and Queen Chrysalis, plus the Secretariat Comet enhancing both their magic. Had you purchased Issue #4 of the MLP comic or streamed it on the Internet, you'd be able to understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RarityDash Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I've read the comic. The reason it isn't compared to DBZ as much is because there's less to it ultimately. Because it's in a static medium, a comic, as opposed to fully animated DBZ, which most people in America experienced as an anime rather than a manga, wouldn't occur to as many people as a comparison point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosewind Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I thought it resembled something closer to Garzey's Wing. That's a true anime of animes! Shounen action was bumping around long before DBZ, even if it set the early benchmark for anime as it grew in popularity in the west. I'm sure it's quite easy to draw comparisons to it and popular culture; indeed, tropes made famous by DBZ suffuse popular culture to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I thought it resembled something closer to Garzey's Wing. That's a true anime of animes!Shounen action was bumping around long before DBZ, even if it set the early benchmark for anime as it grew in popularity in the west. I'm sure it's quite easy to draw comparisons to it and popular culture; indeed, tropes made famous by DBZ suffuse popular culture to this day.Oh you are just SO EASY GOING ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosewind Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickLime Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 MY INSIDES AHAHAHAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Can we compare it to unrelated earlier fanworks? Because the whole thing reminds me of the story of Gralo... the final battle being quite like the final with Gralo and the Princesses being like the battle of Tirek and TwilightAnd I take some small delight in the fact none of you have any clue what I'm talking about and likely wont be bothered to look it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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