Last post wins

[Rosewind]

2 minutes ago, SymphonicFire said:

Medical treatment? Stay well, Rose!

 

 

 

Thanks love! I appreciate the good vibes. This nightmare will be over soon enough -- it's going to put me out of work for two months. Lotsa time to catch up on stuff!

[Rosewind]

Just now, GigiThePug said:

Okay i'm gone for maybe a few hours or so and a bunch of drama happens..;-;

I'm not even gonna ask...

 

Not drama, just a stark re-understanding of this thread and the discourse within.

[SymphonicFire]

Two months? That's quite awhile! 

[PatchworkPsycho]

I never said unwatchable, I just said that it makes the content less appealing due to the fact that it's not a welcome surprise, it's just expected.

 

I was looking forward to DDLC at first because of all the praise I heard for it, but then praise turned to slight spoilers which really didn't mean a lot, but even then those slight spoilers grew to give me at least a semblance of the reason the game itself tells you shtuff is gonna go down. That added to the fact that when I actually gave it a go, it wasn't really meeting up to the hype(To keep it as vague as possible, they basically give you options to pick from but no option to not pick any option which is what I really wanted), though keep in mind this was just in the start of the game, I just stopped playing. Combine that with the fact that I literally can't play it right now, and I've just lost interest.

[GigiThePug]

1 minute ago, Rosewind said:

 

Not drama, just a stark re-understanding of this thread and the discourse within.

Oh okay.

[Rosewind]

That's called hype. I like to temper my expectations going into anything.

 

My best advice about handling internet stuff is this: just go with the flow. You don't need to police others or what they're saying or posting. You have to police yourself and move on if it's something you don't like. That's really the crux of this whole discussion.

 

I'm honestly glad that I exist in a culture and place in my life where I can consume content like this as entertainment. It's not something that is granted for a lot of people, so I would take that into consideration next time something seems like a bigger deal than it actually is.

[SymphonicFire]

19 hours ago, PatchworkPsycho said:

Do you watch a movie solely for the plot? I'd think not, you're there for the acting, the jokes, the music, everything, everything that makes the plot so much more than just words on a page.

Made in Abyss has so much more than the plot. The voice acting, the art, the music, everything. 

[PatchworkPsycho]

I know, but if I want art, I look at art, if I want music, I listen to music, those things alone just aren't enough to entice me into watching something, it's the way they come together with the plot to create a whole that is leaps and bounds above the sum of its parts. The thing is, the plot is the most important. Things like nice colors and music aren't necessary, that's why manga exists. The plot and I hesitantly call it lesser artwork can still carry it and gain popularity. The plot is the entire point of watching or reading anything, the other things are in service to the plot. They can make it more entertaining, which in turn can make it annoying when they get spoiled music and art can't be spoiled really though, that's more like jokes and references when I say they get spoiled but they're just details to enhance your experience, they're not the meat of the thing in any capacity. I don't watch a show to be wowed by visuals or be blown away by the epic musical scores, in fact half the time I wont even notice them.

[Rosewind]

That's great, but that doesn't mean everyone else feels the same when it comes to enjoying something. 

 

When you go to a restaurant, you're paying for the ambiance. You're paying to not have to clean up anything, or to spend time cooking. It's a rightful sum of its parts. Do people go there just for the food? Yes. That may be the only draw for that establishment, and that's fine -- but that doesn't mean everything else has to exist at that same standard or to your personal expectations.

 

I might be digressing a bit here...I have a degree in culinary arts and baking. A lot of friends and family know this. When I go to visit someone, I frequently get a "I hope this is okay, I know you could do better" when I'm a guest in someone's home. Of course it's okay. I don't hold people to whatever professional standard I've been trained to have. It's not fair, or even possible to expect a flawless culinary experience when you're just spending time with someone. I like to have friends and coworkers over for dinner often, and I don't often give my best there. I'm tired and just want to get food on the table. I will try to make it as yummy as possible, but I'm not holding a standard to anything. The real reason I have them over is to enjoy the company, and whatever else just adds to the experience as a whole.

 

You may enjoy something for the plot, but I think you're missing the point if you're consuming content for just one reason.

[Penumbra]

Case and point AoT. By all accounts the artwork in the manga is terrible. Every character is super stiff and sometimes I have legit trouble knowing if a scene is suppose to be serious or funny because the facial expressions are so goofy. But the story is super creative which makes it worth while. 

If something works well most of the time you won't notice them. Two boss fights come to mind when talking about music and its integration into a scene:

Ludwig the accursed/holy blade in Bloodborne: (especially in the second half)
 

Spoiler

 

The Opera boss in Nier; Auotomata
 

Spoiler

 

 

Both bosses fight in tune with the music which in turn allows the flow of the fight much more enjoyable. The the Opera boss's signing blending in with the BGM is extremely impact-full. 

Something similar was done with the enemies in Drakenguard 3:

 

Spoiler

 

I'm not really making a point here. 

 

[Rosewind]

You're totally making a great point here, Pemby. 

 

I don't think this discussion is trying to change your mindset about stuff Patch, but I definitely think it's worth considering a different approach when it comes to content, its consumption, its discussion, and how and why it should be enjoyed.

[SymphonicFire]

[Rosewind]

Omg I love you.

[SymphonicFire]

Really? I thought I was overdoing it.

 

Got my game face on and white cheddar popcorn.

[PatchworkPsycho]

Again, I'm not saying things outside of the plot aren't important, they're just not specifically what you go searching for most of the time. How often does less than stellar artwork or music turn you away from a great plot, and how often does mindblowing music and artwork hold your attention when the plot is godawful - and the content is specifically for said plot, not like a musical or an opera or something, I'm talking about specifically story or even gameplay-driven content where the art and music are the side dishes, not the main focus. Maybe it's just because I see those things as a sort of digital book, it just takes the words and makes pictures instead. So to me, things that wouldn't translate into straight text just aren't as important, because I'm looking to text for a lot of stuff.

[SymphonicFire]

"When Marnie was there"

 

Not the greatest plot, but the art and music is enough to give me chills. Just watching the music clip gives me so many feels.

[Rosewind]

Why wouldn't they be? I've seen plenty of reviews for something along the lines of "this is really pretty and worth experiencing...just don't expect much from the plot/gameplay/whatever."

 

Case in point: a lot of Ghibli films. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Ghibli-anything, I just think some movies shine above others for the sum of their parts (good story + good art, characters, animation etc.). Case in point: My Neighbor Totoro, Ponyo, and a few others. Totoro is very popular in anime culture and I'm at a loss for why. It's not a particularly deep movie, probably because it was made for younger children where the art and characters mean more than the story. I think Ponyo is a fish turd as far as the story is concerned, but the presentation is outstanding. Compare that to the likes of Princess Mononoke, well-known for its story, incredible locale and presentation.

[SymphonicFire]

If Spirited Away had no dialogue...just the music, sound effects, and visuals. It would still win it an Oscar.

 

I think The Red Turtle has no diaglogue.

[PatchworkPsycho]

Still, not expecting much from the plot or gameplay doesn't mean it's bad, and meh plot/gameplay can be made up for with other stellar elements, but if you're playing a game to listen to the soundtrack or look at visuals, why are you playing that game? Why are you trudging through bad or boring gameplay when you could be playing a game you enjoy playing? Why not just go look at some art that's made just to be art, or listen to music that's just meant to be music? If something is specifically focused on its gameplay or plot, and it doesn't entertain enough, why stick around for other elements when you can look at those elements alone? You can praise a game for great art and music, but you shouldn't praise the game overall if it intends to do something great with the gameplay and doesn't. Of course, a game that doesn't intend to do that, but rather just wants to show off art and music is fine, but again, that's not something you go to specifically for gameplay/plot. There's nothing wrong with giving credit to the people behind the art and music of a show or game if it's breathtaking, but that doesn't make the game or show worth watching on its own, if those two aspects are meant to be the bulk of the entertainment and they're not, overall it's not doing its job. If they're not meant to be the bulk of the entertainment, then it doesn't matter if they're great or just okay since they're not the focus, just like music and art are acceptable if only okay in a show which is focused around its plot.

 

I've typed plot, art, and music way too many times.

[SymphonicFire]

I'm not say this in spite of you, but most of my games I bought because of art and music. I just play through the game because I spent money on it.

• Absolver
• DDLC
• Danganronpa
• The First Tree
• Gorogoa
• Journey
• Abzu
• Shadow of the Colussus
• Samorost
• Warframe
• Patapon
• Artificial Academy (Don't look that up)
• Little Big Planet
• Animal Crossing

To name a few.

[SymphonicFire]

Still wondering why we suddenly got into what makes a movie/game.

 

This conversation started because I blurted out some references made no?

[SymphonicFire]

[SymphonicFire]

White cheddar is soooo good.

[Rosewind]

I made curry, and it was amazing. I even ate it out of my purple dog bowl!

[SymphonicFire]

:OO I remember that!

Dog bowl I mean.