The Elements of Harmony - should they go more in-depth with them?

[TheColtofPersonality]

Actually I have a working theory that the elements of harmony ARE the mane 6 and the necklaces/ crown thingie only serve to tap into the energy of the mane 6.

[shreddedpegasus]

Actually I have a working theory that the elements of harmony ARE the mane 6 and the necklaces/ crown thingie only serve to tap into the energy of the mane 6.

I'd say they're more physical representations of the 6 elements more so than the actual elements themselves. But I do agree with the necklace/crown thingie being used to tap into the energy of the mane 6.

[starswirlthebearded]

I'd say they're more physical representations of the 6 elements more so than the actual elements themselves. But I do agree with the necklace/crown thingie being used to tap into the energy of the mane 6.

Actually Twilight said it quite clearly that second episode... They embody the SPIRIT of the elements. But that is not to say they are the elements themselves. That is just silly. Then Celestia would never have broken the connection. It is pretty evident that she embodies all the elements in one. She has shown elements of each, so when Luna was banished there should have been no reason why the elements connection would have severed with her. This was not the case, which means that there is some physical representation of power. Not to mention that the elements of harmony predated Celestia, and somehow had physical forms.

Also, on topic. We really know everything we need. The elements of harmony are the elements that well embody pure harmony. They are used to restore a unbalance in harmony. I think it is pretty clear cut. It is also clear that there is some control needed to wield them properly. When fighting Discord, they turned him to stone together, the intended task. When using them alone, Celestia could only banish her sister, unlike twilight and co whom had a strong connection and could control them the their maximum potential cleansing Luna.

[shreddedpegasus]

Actually Twilight said it quite clearly that second episode... They embody the SPIRIT of the elements. But that is not to say they are the elements themselves. That is just silly. Then Celestia would never have broken the connection. It is pretty evident that she embodies all the elements in one. She has shown elements of each, so when Luna was banished there should have been no reason why the elements connection would have severed with her. This was not the case, which means that there is some physical representation of power. Not to mention that the elements of harmony predated Celestia, and somehow had physical forms.

Also, on topic. We really know everything we need. The elements of harmony are the elements that well embody pure harmony. They are used to restore a unbalance in harmony. I think it is pretty clear cut. It is also clear that there is some control needed to wield them properly. When fighting Discord, they turned him to stone together, the intended task. When using them alone, Celestia could only banish her sister, unlike twilight and co whom had a strong connection and could control them the their maximum potential cleansing Luna.

Couldn't have hit the nail on the head any better. I probably could've gone more in depth with my reply earlier but I am at times, the lazy type!

[TheColtofPersonality]

Actually Twilight said it quite clearly that second episode... They embody the SPIRIT of the elements. But that is not to say they are the elements themselves. That is just silly. Then Celestia would never have broken the connection. It is pretty evident that she embodies all the elements in one. She has shown elements of each, so when Luna was banished there should have been no reason why the elements connection would have severed with her. This was not the case, which means that there is some physical representation of power. Not to mention that the elements of harmony predated Celestia, and somehow had physical forms.

Actually my theory still stands pretty well, Remember in the second part of the series opener the five elements were allegedly stones and when Twilight realized that the spark that was supposed to be the sixth was ignited in her, its then I thought to myself that the stones themselves are not the elements, the ponies are.

And this is further backed by Discord in the season 2 opener as while under his influence the mane 6 could not beat him.

Think on it, if the elements were the stones dont you think they would have slain him right off?

If the mane 6 were only meant to represent the 6 elements dont you think the elements might have worked from the hooves of Celestia?

This is also kind of evidenced on why Celestia sent back all the friendship reports, and why she gave Twilight the entrance exam, after all Lauren Faust herself suggested that only Twilight had this exam.

She probably knew the mane 6 were in trouble, and that if it was the necklaces/ crown thingie that made the elements of harmony dont you think she would have taken a more direct role?

If Celestia is so powerful dont you think she would have stopped both Nightmare Moon and Discord and just used the elements?

I think after having to use the elements of harmony TWICE in the same lifetime, first against Discord and then against her own sister she might have realized the elements were too powerful and might have transferred them into living beings.

On their own the mane 6 cant do too much damage but together they can make a powerful weapon.

Hey this isnt the first time stuff like this has come up in fiction, it was a key plot in Sailor Moon after all.

Sure its known that the elements themselves existed before the mane 6 and I stated that its my theory that after the defeat of Nightmare Moon Celestia might have transferred their powers to the mane 6, she probably did it right when she knew Nightmare Moon was ready to come back.

It might be the main reason why she knew about Twilight, I mean after all why was it one unicorn that got her attention enough to become her student?

If not only for her to train twilight to hone her powers but something more?

If Twilight was meant just to repesent her element she should have known there was a chance she might become corrupted and just grab the powers for herself again.

In the end I am suggesting that the elements of harmony as we know them are just the keys, the real power is in the mane 6.

[starswirlthebearded]

Actually my theory still stands pretty well, Remember in the second part of the series opener the five elements were allegedly stones and when Twilight realized that the spark that was supposed to be the sixth was ignited in her, its then I thought to myself that the stones themselves are not the elements, the ponies are.

And this is further backed by Discord in the season 2 opener as while under his influence the mane 6 could not beat him.

Think on it, if the elements were the stones dont you think they would have slain him right off?

If the mane 6 were only meant to represent the 6 elements dont you think the elements might have worked from the hooves of Celestia?

This is also kind of evidenced on why Celestia sent back all the friendship reports, and why she gave Twilight the entrance exam, after all Lauren Faust herself suggested that only Twilight had this exam.

She probably knew the mane 6 were in trouble, and that if it was the necklaces/ crown thingie that made the elements of harmony dont you think she would have taken a more direct role?

If Celestia is so powerful dont you think she would have stopped both Nightmare Moon and Discord and just used the elements?

I think after having to use the elements of harmony TWICE in the same lifetime, first against Discord and then against her own sister she might have realized the elements were too powerful and might have transferred them into living beings.

On their own the mane 6 cant do too much damage but together they can make a powerful weapon.

Hey this isnt the first time stuff like this has come up in fiction, it was a key plot in Sailor Moon after all.

Sure its known that the elements themselves existed before the mane 6 and I stated that its my theory that after the defeat of Nightmare Moon Celestia might have transferred their powers to the mane 6, she probably did it right when she knew Nightmare Moon was ready to come back.

It might be the main reason why she knew about Twilight, I mean after all why was it one unicorn that got her attention enough to become her student?

If not only for her to train twilight to hone her powers but something more?

If Twilight was meant just to repesent her element she should have known there was a chance she might become corrupted and just grab the powers for herself again.

In the end I am suggesting that the elements of harmony as we know them are just the keys, the real power is in the mane 6.

What ignited in Twilight was the spark of friendship, that is the magic they refer to. (The show is called "Friendship is Magic") That is what activated the elements, and they naturally reacted to the pony that represented it. That is what creates the connection.

The mane 6 were in disharmony, so how could they use something called the "Elements of Harmony?" Especially when Twilight was affected, which destroys the magic of friendship, the effective link between the other 5.

The Princess's connection was made with her sister. After she banished her sister, the connection was destroyed. Why? Because her FRIEND (where the 6th element "Magic" comes from) was banished by her, nothing says "our friendship is over" than banishing them TO THE MOON. Destroying her ability to use the EoH. Which is why she needed her protegee to make friends. Again, she said that straight out in episode 2 of season 1 "I told you to make friends, nothing more."

And likely, Celestia was watching Twilight for a long time, knowing that she had powerful magic. She seems to know everything. Which makes sense since she is in essence a god. Also... Faustcanon is not canon. Its close, but until that is confirmed by the show in some way (it probably won't be) its technically not true canon. Most fans regard it as story canon though, because Faust was basically the original creator.

For the taking a direct role... I've already mentioned why Celestia couldn't utilize the EoH. And why she couldn't use them to defeat Nightmare Moon, or Discord. And she even SAID THAT in the first episode of the Second Season...

The elements must be utilized in unison. They need to be in harmony to work, along with their wielders. They even called the elements "THE MOST POWERFUL MAGIC KNOWN TO PONYDOM" in the first two minutes of the very first episode. They didn't suggest that it was internalized at any time. In fact, each time they are mentioned they talk about the elements power, not the power of the wielder. They existed for a long time before that, they don't even suggest when they were created, they only allude to them being around for an unspecified amount of time that predates Celestia.

Basically, mane 6 represent the EoH which is why they can use their power. Their power is nonexistent unless utilized together. There is no evidence to suggest they can ever be used solo, like the gems in Sailor Moon (or whatever their source of power was). Everything about the EoH is based upon harmony. And the mane 6, though they embody the spirit of the individual elements, don't contain their power.

All evidence given by the show leads to the conclusion that its the elements that hold the power. However, the TRUE power is in friendships which is why the princess sent the letters back, as suggested by season 2 opener with discord. However that has nothing to do with the most powerful magic known to ponydom, that only allows them to utilize it.

[tacobob]

I'd love to see a flashback episode with Luna and Celestia taking on Discord. I'm curious why he was singing while he was turned into stone...

[TheColtofPersonality]

What ignited in Twilight was the spark of friendship, that is the magic they refer to. (The show is called "Friendship is Magic") That is what activated the elements, and they naturally reacted to the pony that represented it. That is what creates the connection.

Yes but Twilight herself still has a lot of raw power inside of her, as evidenced in her flashback and some parts of the show.

She is the main reason why I think the pony's are the elements and not the necklaces/crown.

The other elements are a little less harmful then her, after all most of the other elements are personality traits rather then actual elements.

It would explain why Twilight is so powerful after all, I mean how can she be the only unicorn that seems like the Swiss army knife of magic?

Its not just because she is the student of Celestia or just representing the power of magic.

The mane 6 were in disharmony, so how could they use something called the "Elements of Harmony?" Especially when Twilight was affected, which destroys the magic of friendship, the effective link between the other 5.

Yes but if the stones are so important Celestia could have just gather them together again and send them out to other ponies, sure she said she lost the connection to them but she never explained why, I think Celestia is not telling them something.

And likely, Celestia was watching Twilight for a long time, knowing that she had powerful magic. She seems to know everything. Which makes sense since she is in essence a god. Also... Faustcanon is not canon. Its close, but until that is confirmed by the show in some way (it probably won't be) its technically not true canon. Most fans regard it as story canon though, because Faust was basically the original creator.

Yes but thats why I can sort of count it in

The elements must be utilized in unison. They need to be in harmony to work, along with their wielders. They even called the elements "THE MOST POWERFUL MAGIC KNOWN TO PONYDOM" in the first two minutes of the very first episode. They didn't suggest that it was internalized at any time. In fact, each time they are mentioned they talk about the elements power, not the power of the wielder. They existed for a long time before that, they don't even suggest when they were created, they only allude to them being around for an unspecified amount of time that predates Celestia.

Still I think that maybe Celestia knows something she is not telling the mane 6, she knows a lot about her kingdom and its history but she might also know about the hidden powers within someone.

In the end this is just a working theory, a work in progress based on what little we know here.

Just because its a theory doesnt make it a fact, in the end you are probably right but its fun to play around with theories like this.

[OccupyEquestria]

They're a sort of "wizard did" trope. The Elements are there merely to serve as a plot device to facilitate the conclussion of a conflict whose story only utilizes them in a thematic sense. If you flesh the EoH out then you can be critical of them and also changes their purpose in the show which would skew any future use.

[SuperKlonoa]

I'm surprised that this topic is still going.

I've pretty much stopped caring about this topic because all I see here are just different intepretations and speculation on how they work. As far as canonicity goes, it's still far too vague for me to get some depth out of them. =/

So rather than relying on the thoughts of others, I decided to just add on to the EoH while still making sense out of it. 'Cause currently, this is the only way for me to write this fic with Super Dash without involving Sonic again.

Yes, I'm still going to do it, btw.

[elsporko]

I think the elements and those who use them are equal in power in a way. The elements themselves are useless without somebody who truly represents it commanding it, yet without the elements that character trait cannot be used as a weapon. The elements can be used in theory by anypony, but finding a group who represents them and has the friendship would be very rare