S03 E01-02: "The Crystal Empire"

[Bellosh]

Another question: did King Sombra ever control any loyal minions while in control of the Crystal Empire? I noticed the presence of guard towers back in the flashback scene; that implies Sombra didn't brutalize the crystal ponies by himself. The king must have had lesser thugs to help him out and such.

[TotalEcplise]

King Sombre didn't die. They clearly showed how he could break himself into pieces and put himself back together again when the tip of his horn snapped off and rejoined with the rest of him later. Then, when he was defeated, they threw his horn -entirely intact- flying right by the camera in a shot that was so blatantly obvious that I cant imagine it being random chance.

I'm leaning toward him being gone because. He showed that he could regenerate some of himself in his cloudly shadow form, he lost a piece of horn. It turned into a black crystal and the piece of missing horn replaced itself. Yeah I agree, if he had be defeated in that state, had the crystal heart not reverted him back to a solid form, I'd believe that he was still around. But that didn't happen, he was utterly destroyed in his pony form which we have no proof of in the show that he could survive something like that in when weakened by the crystal.

To address the other point, about his scattering pieces. Now eariler at least twice in the premier we saw that the Dark corrupted crystal can exits free of Sombra. Celestia can corrupt and purify the crystal, and corrupted crystal apparently stays corrupted unless cleansed. Now I do believe that Sombra is gone, but the main threat he possessed may very well still exist. The camera angle may very well be deliberate, I've seen power rangers do the same thing...most of the time it amounted to nothing, but a few time a monster had blow up and its pieces were threats. and at which point they were individuals, different than what spawned them. We saw that a stray piece of Sombra can start the corruption, and Celestia showed that the black crystal will spread without any further input...

If you were to ask me, I'd say that scene points towards fragments of Sombra blasting across the globe like dragon balls and corrupting different lands, possibly setting up the season finale or a few other adventures.

But it's all theory craft, in the end we really don't know what happened to him. Which I believe, was fully intended.

If he doesn't come back...holy poo somepony got iced on MLP.

If he does, good show studio b.

[Kirby Krackle]

Luna's book. What?

[FlammingHeart]

As others mentioned I have to support the theory about Crystal ponies not being a separate race more like a nationality with special magic.

King Sombra was a uniqe villian instead of just Discord V3. IF they needed a new in your face villian they just taken Crysalis. Different villians for different purposes. As others said King Sombra is the threatening doom. Not a story line in itself.

Twillight Sparkle:

Yes she definatly up for soemthign big. But I hope not she to take over for Celestia and Luna. Maybe they just need a break so Luna soul can mend or maybe with the transfer of the Elements of Harmony Luna nad Celestia eternal life been transferred to thee mane 6. I j sut do not want that ending as it would seem kinda to much everybody wants to be a princess adn it the ultimal goal. It would jsut not go along wel lalong with story line and the message of the whole series. Being somebody importent is greatest archievement possible is jsut not the right message to send out to the kids.

Dark Magic and Twillight Sparkle ? Did I jsut use that in same sentence

click to 1:12 atleast she belief herself that her hearth is pure. The socaleld dark magic used seemed more like a cantrip (weak spell) more than an actual spell. I jsut think the theme of the decent down to darkness is to seriouse or complicated for MLP. This is a kids show after all.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

He wasn't utterly destroyed, he was broken up into pieces, as if he were made out of glass or something. Even if he doesn't come back, it doesn't prove anything, since it was 1000 years since the last time anyone saw him.

Also: The truth about Luna's book.

[Kirby Krackle]

Also: The truth about Luna's book.

*internet hug*

[ping111]

Before all else:

To anyone spelling it "flugal horn" or something of the like, it is called a flugelhorn. It's a German word, meaning it's pronounced "fleu-gl-horn", "eu" being said like "ewwwww".

Gak night, and I'll see you in the morning.

[leodylandy]

so did [colour=#282828]Sombra ever say anything. and not my favorite episodes [/colour]

[sleeps]

I just finished watching the new season episode and I wouldn't say it was the greatest but not bad. King Sombra not exactly the most interesting of villains. There seems to be a hinting of a larger story line for this season which is a plus for me. I think the thing that I wonder most about was why did Luna summon a book at the very end? Also what was Celestia talking about to Luna at the beginning concerning Twilight? My prediction is that we probably haven't seen the last of King Sombra something about him being so easily defeated makes me think he will be back with something more dangerous.

[Starfox64x]

Its late, so i'll throw out my opinion and head to bed... read everyone elses later...

Sooo bad stuff first... I didnt like the Villain... he got sooo little screen time for one thing, probably less than the manticore from S1E2 i think he said 'crystal' twice... and frankly i didnt find him intimidating... We were just kinda TOLD that he was evil, and that was it... we weren't really SHOWN how evil he was... just a brief sceen of everyone in chains and the land looked darker... kinda like in LOZ Twilight Princess... We were TOLD the world was in a great peril, but frankly all the bad guys seemed to do was make everythign kinda shadowy...

And the crystal kingdom seems fishy... NO ONE knew anythign about this place? Really? The two princesses who took the time to banish an evil unicorn didnt take the time to research this? Or try and save it from the curse? and yet the minute it pops up on the map, Celestia knows to protect it from Sombra again...

Another negative nancy bit... You'd think Twilight would realize by now that her teacher is probably the most lenient being in the world... her pet turns to ash= "It's okay, he's comign back" Late on her report= "It's all good." Multiple evil deities come back from the past, "you cane handle it..."

While i'm on that.... i think Celestia needs to make a list of old adversaires she's faced so Twilight can research them... at this rate they're all gonna come back at some point... "Oh yeah, and there was this one circus pony demon who made everyone laugh hystaricall til they passed out, so dont bring Pinkie, and he's allergic to buts... just so you know."

But, even with all that negative stuff i noticed, i couldnt help but also notice that i was smiling pretty broadly through the majority of the show. The characters were all as they should have been (excluding Twilight being so freaked out about doign it alone...) With Rarity getting giddy over jewels, Applejack using her friendly nature to dissuade ponies from seeing the stone, and pinkie... well, being Pinkie... Once again, one of her little moments made me bust out laughing (cannon time manipulation.)

The songs were nice of course, and everythign else was good, but it's just the characters being themselves that i like... and that really saved the episode...

Also, AJ's comment to Rarity at the end... yeah, Rainbow Dash better keep an eye on her, she's flirting with non shipping parnters, hehe.

And whats with all the Gak stuff i've been seeing? i didnt see the commercials...

[Huscarl]

It was a good episode, like most people are saying, there have been better though. Canterlot Wedding and Return to Harmony for example, I think the biggest letdown was King Sombre, the guy simply had no personality, Sure, you can feel how dangerous he is throughout the episode, but he has ZERO personality, he has hardly any lines in both episodes combined too, a big change in comparison with Discord or Nightmare Moon.

Also, You think Celestia and Luna are in cahoots about trolling the Mane Six? Luna looked as if she didn't entirely want Twilight to go in the first episode, though Celestia is like, "GO TO THE EMPIRE!"

Good episode though.

[SteelEagle]

Finally saw it with what remained of some subs and soda:

Loved it. I think I'll slot it behind the Royal Wedding episodes in terms of two parters, but it was better than the series opener and the Discord episodes.

Weaknesses:

Sombra- As a villain, the weakest in the series so far. No personality, just a doom device. As a doom device, he worked, but I could never get behind him being doomy enough for his doom device characterization to matter. Of course, the question is, what would you have removed to stick in more characterization from him?

Songs- They weren't bad at all, but unlike the Wedding Episodes which felt like the songs were integral, advanced the story, and were epic, the sings here felt somewhat shoehorned in and not all that grand. The reprise was good though and in comparison to the average songs in the series the songs were distinctly average- which considering the high quality of the musical numbers in the show, is saying something.

Strengths:

The Princesses- Celestia has plans for Twilight, big ones that are kept vague, and responds to a threat swiftly. Very good stuff from her. Luna doesn't have much, but I loved her slightly pouty and chagrined expression and general characterization in the episode. It goes a long way to showing how they work as a team and how important they are. Cadance stole the show in this category; she worked herself to the bone to defend her people, even past the point of collapse. We can point now to a time when Cadance worked harder and sacrificed more than Celestia and Luna have in a thousand years, and she proved herself worthy of ruling her subjects.

Mane Six Interaction- The big problem with the Royal Wedding episodes in retrospect, as well as the Discord episodes and the NMM arc, was a lack of good character interaction. I've always felt that those episodes existed outside of the show in a *sense*, and each one had to rely on a specific thing to fail. If you didn't like the characters, the NMM stuff failed. If you didn't like Discord, his episodes failed. If you weren't hooked by Twilight's suspicions, half of the wedding duo seems boring. Here instead, the episode honestly feels like an episode of the show, even with the stakes raised. The focus never leaves the mane six as a group, whether that is Twi and her journey or the mane five at the fair, from start to end. Every character has moments and the dialogue between them shows an increasing familiarity and comfort that makes the dialogue far richer.

That is honestly what made the premiere great. It was an exercise in great dialogue and scenes with and between established cast and not necessarily requiring something new. You could have displaced this episode to a new region with a new enemy and the effect would be the same. Rather than point to weakness in setting or enemy, I think it points to a strength in interaction between cast. The previous two parters were almost entirely Twilight episodes with the other ponies showing up when needed. This was a Mane Six episode with Twilight having the biggest push. The differences are huge.

The Future- With the exception of the series opener, I don't think any pair of episodes have had as big an impact. Lesson Zero had an impact as well, but thanks to establishing canon and royalty while starting to appear to have a bigger arc in the works, Crystal Empires felt like the start of something. Not the end.

Final grade:

Part 1- 9/10. Funny moments, good push and development.

Part 2- 10/10. Might be my favorite episode.

How does it stack up against other two parters?

1- Crystal Empires- It had the most comedy and best story developments.

2- Royal Wedding- Best song in the show coupled with a very, very strong second episode, but the first half felt lacking,

3- Discord- The best villain in the show, almost no debate there, elevates what was good material to great.

4- Nightmare Moon- It's an opener. For an opener, it's just fine.

[Parker_Izing]

Just wrapped my mind around it, the first appearance of Shining Armour reminded me of Planet Hoth in Empire strikes back (need to re watch it, but goggles and scarf/cape looked the same outfit used in the movie)

[TotalEcplise]

Just wrapped my mind around it, the first appearance of Shining Armour reminded me of Planet Hoth in Empire strikes back (need to re watch it, but goggles and scarf/cape looked the same outfit used in the movie)

Straight up, when he walked in through the snow storm the first thing I said was.

"My boy looks like a rebel trooper"

Also in a when shining armor first showed up at the end of S2 he sounded like a super obnoxious surfer dude, thank Luna that it was toned down!

[TotalEcplise]

so did [colour=#282828]Sombra ever say anything. and not my favorite episodes [/colour]

He said, MWAHAHAHAHA and SLAVES

[TotalEcplise]

hi hi

He wasn't utterly destroyed, he was broken up into pieces, as if he were made out of glass or something. Even if he doesn't come back, it doesn't prove anything, since it was 1000 years since the last time anyone saw him.

Also: The truth about Luna's book.

As I said.

You can believe that, to each his own. I will continue to believe that elements of his threat may still exist, but the conscious entity known as Sombra is likely gone because that's what everything in the episodes has lead me to believe.

unless you have some new information on Sombra, it would probably be best to let me think what I think, based on what I have stated. seeing as my logic is sound, and im not just spouting nonsensical gibberish it shouldn't be an issue. It may not be how many of you interpreted what happened, but its how I interpreted it.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I'm not sure what you mean by "The Conscious Entity," I mean, King Sombre didn't really show any signs of consciousness even when he was fully formed. He just sort of growled a bit and honestly looked like he was operating entirely on instinct or out of habit.

Speaking of which, new hypothesis: Like King Sombre, the crystal ponies aren't actually ponies at all. They're more like cogs in a machine, who's purpose is to power the crystal heart like some sort of animated crystal batteries. They just sort of exist, running through these specific routines. If there is any deviation from their routine, they don't know what to do and are lost and confused. When all the correct and proper pieces are in place though, they spring into action and fulfill their purpose. Then I guess they disappear again or something.

Can someone clear this up for me? I'm a bit confused on why they had disappeared for 1000 years. That was part of Sombre's curse, but they had the crystal heart to defend against Sombre, but Luna and Celestia defeated Sombre 1000 years ago, but the crystal fair was a regular event from the crystal ponies' history. So was Sombre a recurring threat to them, or were there other threats before him? And if the power level of the crystal heart determines their quality of life, did they even exist before the crystal heart, or did the crystal heart come first and the crystal ponies came later as a means of powering it?

Also: The for real truth behind Luna's book.

[Bellosh]

Like King Sombre, the crystal ponies aren't actually ponies at all. They're more like cogs in a machine, who's purpose is to power the crystal heart like some sort of animated crystal batteries. They just sort of exist, running through these specific routines. If there is any deviation from their routine, they don't know what to do and are lost and confused. When all the correct and proper pieces are in place though, they spring into action and fulfill their purpose. Then I guess they disappear again or something.

Sounds a bit unlikely for my tastes, but you do remind me of something else I found strange. Whether it was intentional or due to animator laziness, it seems most of the crystal ponies only made use of a few basic character designs, right down to their very cutie marks. Popular marks included those with a bow and arrow, a castle tower, a corn husk, and so on. Maybe the mechanics for cutie marks work a bit different in the Crystal Empire than what Equestrian ponies are used too?

[Tenkan]

Thinking about King Sombra and the little lines he had, I still think he had an awesome voice and character design. The whole mist and shadows thing was just siiiick!

And as for the voice, it brought me back to Harbinger from ME.

[MidnightBlackhorn]

"THROW THE WWWWIIIIIIIIFFFFFEEEE!!!"

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Well, it may be unlikely, but there are some parallels. As central to the story as the Crystal Ponies' spirits were, can you think of any moments when they displayed more personality than King Sombre? I wonder if it was perhaps intentional that they were mirror images of each other, that Sombre was a shadow and the Crystal Ponies were light. Two sides to what was almost like a manifestation of a dream. Then there was all the dream metaphors: showing up and not knowing how they got there, a doorway into your worst fears, Princess Cadence's struggles to stay awake being the thing that holds the world together, the whole thing being a dramatic celestial event that is often associated with spirits and ghosts.

Edit: Speaking of dreams, for all we know, Twilight is still stuck staring at the doorway. It was a long, long way down, but she was only lost in her vision for a little while and Spike made it all the way down the stairs.

[Bellosh]

As central to the story as the Crystal Ponies' spirits were, can you think of any moments when they displayed more personality than King Sombre? I wonder if it was perhaps intentional that they were mirror images of each other, that Sombre was a shadow and the Crystal Ponies were light. Two sides to what was almost like a manifestation of a dream. Then there was all the dream metaphors: showing up and not knowing how they got there, a doorway into your worst fears, Princess Cadence's struggles to stay awake being the thing that holds the world together, the whole thing being a dramatic celestial event that is often associated with spirits and ghosts.

Interesting theory, but I still suspect the primary reason why the Crystal Ponies seemed that way personality-wise was simply because DHX didn't have the opportunity to flesh them out completely. This two-parter had a lot of ground to cover, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to believe that some things not necessary towards moving the plot along or fleshing out the main characters were left out of the episodes. Maybe in future episodes, we'll see the crystal ponies with more individuality in them.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

The thing is though, the Crystal ponies were necessary for the plot and the development of the main characters. Caring about them was the reason why Twilight Sparkle decided to risk failing her test in the end

For the majority of the episode they had been using the Crystal Ponies as a means to an end, and changing her outlook and seeing them as an end in and of themselves, more important than her own goals, was a pivotal moment. I'd like to think that the folks at DHX are smart enough to know how to cut out extraneous material from a script, so I have to assume that some of that was on purpose. I mean, they devoted a lot of screen time to showing the Crystal Ponies all acting alike, when they were trying to get information from them, when they were exposed to the fair, when they were trying to take a look at the Crystal Heart, and when they finally did see it. So its not like they didn't have screen time to spare for the Crystal Ponies.

[Bellosh]

The thing is though, the Crystal ponies were necessary for the plot and the development of the main characters. Caring about them was the reason why Twilight Sparkle decided to risk failing her test in the end

Yes, it was important to get Twilight (and the audience) to care for the crystal ponies. However, maybe DHX felt that for whatever reason, they chose to spend their animation budget on things other than unique designs for the background ponies. All that improved animation in the premiere has to have come at some sort of cost........... right?

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I'm not sure what animation has to do with it. Two people who look the same are totally capable of having different personalities, and people who look different can have the same personality. The real distinguishing thing is how someone acts, how they sound, and how the feel. (I suspect that even if somepony like, lets say Braeburn, had a generic pony animation, his enthusiasm and catchy phrases would have made him stand out regardless.)

And, given DHX's limited screen time budget, they felt it was important to show repeated shots of Crystal ponies acting the same way. Show them a genuine fair display from the Crystal Heart User's Manual, and *blink* their spirit energy fills up. Ask them about the past and they refuse to talk about it, and show a similar lack of concern about their lack of memory.

Ooh! No, I got it! The whole thing actually was just a test for Twilight. That's why no one knew about Crystal ponies before and why there weren't any books about them. Thats why Cadence and Shining Armor left in advance, so they could set the whole thing up, why everything look pristine and new, why King Sombre didn't have much to say, why no one had much to say about their past, and why Celestia wasn't worried about Twilight failing.