Equestiras lost history... and is Celestia boarderline evil? (spoilers within)

[TheColtofPersonality]

[colour=#444444]Its pretty clear that Equestrias history has more holes in it then the entire changeling race combined, there is a LOT tnat has seemed to have been muted or omitted from pony history.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Take the story of the royal sisters, as I pointed out in another thread:[/colour]

[colour=#444444]The names of both Celestia and Luna are missing from the book Twilight read in the series opener, one can guess it was an omission by the pony who wrote the books on Nightmare moon, it happens all the time in human history where the real facts are covered up and or exaggerated to tell a good story.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Take for example the story of George Washington and him crossing the Delaware, often times this is thought of as a triumph but it was actually the end of a tactical blunder that Washington made but made triumphant because in the end Washington regrouped and became victorious later on.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Its well known that history is written by the victor, and due to the passage of time things may have muddled and became mixed up.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Clear evidence of this is Nightmare Night.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Plus its possible that Celestia did not divulge information mainly because the memories were painful to her.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Then combine my own theory that the history of Luna and Celestia was mucked about over time and you can see where things might be problematic when learning what happened 1000 years ago.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]It was right there in the pilot, the only way she knew that Luna and Celestia were the ones in her book is because Celestia told her (sort of).[/colour]

[colour=#444444]But once more this seems to be more of the fault of the books Twilight read as opposed to Twilight being as stupid as people are suggesting.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]But it makes one wonder why the books didnt specify that the two princesses were indeed Celestia and Luna and they both have lived for 1000 years imprisoned on the moon or otherwise.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]It seems that these facts were either omitted, forgotten about over time or covered up.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]If they were omitted then why were they omitted or covered up?[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Was it because Celestia wanted to bury her past and try to move on?[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Its understandable if that is the case as after all the fight with her sister must have been traumatic for Celestia, her sister and closest friend was corrupted and made evil and Celestia must have hated doing what she did to Luna.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]It had seemed the story about them was no longer fact though and faded into legend so the truth of what happened must have faded into legend as well.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Do consider that the ponies might have thought the name Celestia was a family name and not the same Celestia that fought Nightmaremoon, the other ponies seem to live more mortal lives as we have seen elderly ponies and possibly even a funeral so and ts plausible that Celestia had little to no contact with her subjects and is only now starting to warm up meeting her subjects.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Right now the whole thing is unclear of what happened to muddle the history and the story to the point it became almost like a fairy tale.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]What I meant by "Well it was right there in the pilot, the only way she knew that Luna and Celestia were the ones in her book is because Celestia told her (sort of)." was that Twilight only finally realized that the books she had read on Celestia and Luna, the legend of the elements and etc were all tied together at the end when she overheard Celestia call Nightmaremoon/Luna "sister" in the series opener.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]This once again indicates that neither Luna or Celestia are mentioned in the books she read by name, that for some reason the names of the two sisters were omitted.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]How could Twilight know that Luna and Celestia were the ones in the book?[/colour]

[colour=#444444]There is a lot of mystery on how and why this part of history was smudged over and no one knew about the connection to the story or considered an old mares tale by Twilights time.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Another good indicator of a lost history is that we have not heard the whole story of the early days of Equestria, like how Discord came to power, how the princesses came to power.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Then there is the aforementioned Nightmare night that seemed to have mutated just enough that the legend of Nightmare moon that it became its own strange thing [/colour]

[colour=#444444]Then recently there was the tale of the Crystal Empire that also was omitted from history by Celesita herself.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Makes you wonder how Equestrias history became so muddled and altered other then possibly that it was Celestia herself who did it.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Which brings me to my other half of the discussion, is Celestia boarderline evil?[/colour]

[colour=#444444]I know its a common Brony joke to make Celestia a power crazed despot but is it actually somewhat true?[/colour]

[colour=#444444]After all it was Celestia who seemed to withhold information about the Crystal empire and its possible she may have done more then that as it seems to be she has the final say in such matters.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]I am not saying she is the ultimate evil that most Bronies say she is but there is something strange about her almost every time we learn more about her, something off and maybe even a little wicked.[/colour]

[colour=#444444]Its still hard to say but it almost seems like that way if she really is mucking about with the known history of her kingdom and the world around it.[/colour]

[CobaltFlare]

[TotalEcplise]

That's some fine theory crafting there.

Honestly I can't really say. Celestia isn't really an open book, it is totally possible that she manipulates history to keep her ponies blissfully ignorant.

She never gave a convincing reason for hiding the existence of the crystal kingdom.

The whole discord thing just makes me shake my head as well. Honestly, if discord only wanted to control the nation...couldn't he have just had his own nation and ...oh wait, celestia took that from him...

[Bellosh]

I think Twilight just does a poor job of studying history; why else did it take her until the eve of the Summer Sun Celebration to learn all about the Nightmare Moon legend? Additionally, it might have been extremely hard for historians to distinguish reality from myth, given the nature of the world of Equestria. In short, I don't blame Celestia for how history always seems presented as if it was being made up as the writers went along.

[TheColtofPersonality]

I think Twilight just does a poor job of studying history; why else did it take her until the eve of the Summer Sun Celebration to learn all about the Nightmare Moon legend? Additionally, it might have been extremely hard for historians to distinguish reality from myth, given the nature of the world of Equestria. In short, I don't blame Celestia for how history always seems presented as if it was being made up as the writers went along.

Well Twilight was obviously well versed in such matters, she just seems to loose herself to her overlooking a few things.

Plus she cant be blamed for not knowing stuff if its not written down, if books are Equestrias biggest educational resource how can you know something that is not written down or told to you?

There is no TV in their world, no computers either so most knowledge they have is either written down or passed on,

[CobaltFlare]

I think Twilight just does a poor job of studying history; why else did it take her until the eve of the Summer Sun Celebration to learn all about the Nightmare Moon legend? Additionally, it might have been extremely hard for historians to distinguish reality from myth, given the nature of the world of Equestria. In short, I don't blame Celestia for how history always seems presented as if it was being made up as the writers went along.

That's the thing, it was considered a legend.

Do you see the great scientific minds of our time (at least, the credible ones) learning about, say, Bigfoot?

Until nightmare moon actually returned, it was a fairy tale. A story you would scare your kids into eating their veggies with, not scientific fact or a prophecy.

[Bellosh]

Plus she cant be blamed for not knowing stuff if its not written down, if books are Equestrias biggest educational resource how can you know something that is not written down or told to you?

You still then have to prove whether Celestia herself is responsible for covering up everything related to the Crystal Empire or if incompetent pony historians are to blame instead. Maybe Equestrian scholars thought the Crystal Empire was just a mere footnote in history or even an outright fabrication?

As for the author of that book Twilight read in the pilot's intro, maybe it just just a quirk of that particular writer to not mention Celestia's name? Anypony in Twilight's time with a brain could have figured it out that the princess who controlled the sun back then (according to the book) was meant to be Celestia. Maybe other sources concerning the historical Nightmare Moon (which Twi didn't read) actually refer to Celestia and Luna by name?

That's the thing, it was considered a legend.

Do you see the great scientific minds of our time (at least, the credible ones) learning about, say, Bigfoot?

Until nightmare moon actually returned, it was a fairy tale. A story you would scare your kids into eating their veggies with, not scientific fact or a prophecy.

Twilight certainly didn't disregard Nightmare Moon as a mere legend when she first read up on her. In Equestria, there's always a good possibility that an old pony tale just might be true.

[TheColtofPersonality]

You still then have to prove whether Celestia herself is responsible for covering up everything related to the Crystal Empire or if incompetent pony historians are to blame instead. Maybe Equestrian scholars thought the Crystal Empire was just a mere footnote in history or even an outright fabrication?

As for the author of that book Twilight read in the pilot's intro, maybe it just just a quirk of that particular writer to not mention Celestia's name? Anypony in Twilight's time with a brain could have figured it out that the princess who controlled the sun back then (according to the book) was meant to be Celestia. Maybe other sources concerning the historical Nightmare Moon (which Twi didn't read) actually refer to Celestia and Luna by name?

Twilight certainly didn't disregard Nightmare Moon as a mere legend when she first read up on her. In Equestria, there's always a good possibility that an old pony tale just might be true.

Wait a minute first you are saying what a dumbass you think Twilight is then praise her\ for being booksmart?

Can you be consistent please?

[BrainedBySaucepans]

You still then have to prove whether Celestia herself is responsible for covering up everything related to the Crystal Empire or if incompetent pony historians are to blame instead. Maybe Equestrian scholars thought the Crystal Empire was just a mere footnote in history or even an outright fabrication?

Then surely Celestia would still be at fault for not trying to get the truth out? Lies of omission are still a form of deception.

However, the evidence presented makes me lean toward Celestia deliberately suppressing information. Note how the guard at the beginning delivers the news:

"I am simply to tell you that... it... has returned."

If Celestia is not suppressing information about the Crystal Empire, why this roundabout way of giving this news, especially since it's so urgent...

[Bellosh]

Wait a minute first you are saying what a dumbass you think Twilight is then praise her\ for being booksmart?

Can you be consistent please?

I am consistent. Twilight may have a knack from distinguishing truth from fiction when it comes to historical stuff, but it's still pretty likely that she spends most of her time studying things other than history. It's not unreasonable to assume that Twi isn't an expert in every single academic field out there. If she was, she would have tried doing something about Nightmare Moon earlier, since I doubt the unicorn would learn about NNM, not freak out, and then read about her again and then freak out.

However, the evidence presented makes me lean toward Celestia deliberately suppressing information. Note how the guard at the beginning delivers the news:

"I am simply to tell you that... it... has returned."

If Celestia is not suppressing information about the Crystal Empire, why this roundabout way of giving this news, especially since it's so urgent...

Maybe that pegasus's commanding officer is just an oddball when it comes to dramatic news? There's nothing to indicate that so-called "roundabout way" is mandated from the very top (ie Celestia).

[Lerian]

Mortals can have an odd understanding of history and once something moves from something I saw to something grandpa saw to something someone in the family saw to... you get the idea. Say 4 generations per century, 40 generations of mortal separation to the actual events.

Additionally when something becomes legend it loses its connection to reality thus may not be considered a real event or a real threat.

As a real world example, what would happen if I approached the police or indeed the Prime Minister or Queen saying/yelling that St Georges day was not just a celebration, it was a reflection of real events and not only that dragons were returning to bring about the end of man?

Maybe the crystal kingdom, as all trace of it was erased was (wrongly) thought never to have existed?

'We found another trade record from the Unicorn lands to the "Crystal kingdom"'

"Another one? How didn't they notice that much fraud/tax evasion/money laundering taking place?"

[Motion Paradox]

Hmm, I think it was just the passage of time that caused events to be obscured, true Princess Celestia could have done more in terms of mentioning these things but then I can see why she would choose not mention some of these things until they became relevant can you imagine the reaction if this happened?

Princess Celestia: Thank you everypony for attending the 999th annual Summer Sun Celebration, please join us again next year when it's going to be held in scenic Ponyville, attractions include fun family favourites like: horse shoes, the pastry eating contest and free face painting as well as new attractions like the return of Nightmare moon.

Press Pony: What? I thought Nightmare moon was just a story parents told their children on nightmare night and an excuse to get a share of their children's candy

Princess Celestia: You do realise that tradition was originally supposed to honor my sister and her love of candy, right? But yes that Nightmare moon, and no she isn't coming for the pastry eating contest, she plans to bring about eternal night as she tried to a millenium before, but she really isn't that bad a pony, she was just frustrated that Ponies would sleep through the night after she put all that work into it and she doesn't have the best coping skills ever.

Press Pony: Well that's nice to know but we can't really live without the sunlight, it'll kill all the plant-life and then we won't have anything to eat but maricchino cherries which don't have anything natural in them anyway

Princess Celestia: I know, that's why I have a plan, one that's going to do a much better job dealing with the problem than the last one! My student Twilight Sparkle is going to go to a middle of nowhere town and make some friends! [awkward smile]

Press Pony: But she barely interacts with anypony who isn't a teacher.

Princess Celestia: Yes, but she'll connect with these Ponies, it's her destiny! And they come from all kinds of different backgrounds; we have another Unicorn and she makes dresses, then there are the two Earth Ponies one owns an orchard and the other used to farm rocks and acts like she's from another planet, and then there are the two Pegasi one is in charge of the towns weather and has a huge procrastination problem while the other has crippling social anxiety. Together they're going to retrieve magical artifacts, hopefully they're where I think they are, it's been a while since the last time I used them so I don't really remember, if they are they're in a crumbling castle in the middle of a forest full of monsters.

Press Pony: Gee, it sounds like there's a good chance of them getting killed

Princess Celestia: Not really, the one with social anxiety is good with animals

Press Pony: That's....reassuring. Is there anything else we should know?

Princess Celestia: Well, that weird looking statue in the Canterlot sculpture garden is really the god of chaos turned to stone, oh by the way, after the elements of harmony are used there's a good chance that the spell will weaken so no arguing in the sculpture garden. There's also a Queendom of Changelings that's dangerously close to our boarder, and they can disguise themselves as anypony and feed off another Pony's love for them until they're a mindless puppet, so be careful of those. Oh and my personal favourite; the Crystal Empire is going to return soon, I'm not sure when exactly since I can't remember the exact year we had to seal it away, but you're all going to love it! Of course there's a distinct chance that Sombra, self proclaimed King of the Crystal Ponies will also return and if he comes to power again he could cast his darkness across the land and possibly enslave all of Equinity, really I'm not sure what he does. But I'm sure my niece can keep him at bay long enough for my student and her friends to get rid of him, after all she is a decendant of the Crystal Empire's royal family and Twilight and her future friends will have saved the world a couple of times by then so what's one more? Is that enough or do you want me to keep going?

Press Pony: Right....do you have any closing statements?

Princess Celestia: Some serious emergencies are coming down the pike my little ponies, be ready for them ♪

[elsporko]

Celestia doesn't seem to interact with the public a whole ton nor does she seem to bring up things that aren't necessary.

The average pony doesn't seem to question alot or spend alot of time doing whatever they happen to be doing at the moment. It seems like the ponies who spend time researching and recording history are far and few

How many ponies have we ever even seen visit the library other then to find out where rain water comes from?

[Cadabra]

I personally wonder if the power behind the throne has something to do with some of Celestia's short comings. Think about it this way: Luna, the moon princess, has been banished. This leaves more work for an emotional, exhausted Celestia. With the yin gone from her yang, Celestia needs some help keeping her nation running while still being able to raise the sun and the moon each day. Surely a senate or something could help with this. But do those senator ponies have the same agenda? Wouldn't some slight manipulation be to their benefit? Wouldn't sheltering the emotionally sensitive monarch help with their plans? She didn't know what a parasprite was and she is how old? Coincidence?

[aFlatmajor]

Maybe that pegasus's commanding officer is just an oddball when it comes to dramatic news? There's nothing to indicate that so-called "roundabout way" is mandated from the very top (ie Celestia).

Perhaps Princess Celestia has a select group of trusted guards that help keep track of things. Celestia may be the alicorn god ruler of Equestria, but obviously she still needs help. 

Seeing as how she LOST a magic dual to Chrysalis in a few short seconds, how strong do you think she can be? She's politically powerful, yes. But obviously not physically or magic-wise. 

Take this for example. She NEEDED the Elements of Harmony to send Nightmare Moon to the Moon. Without those powerful artifacts, which Celestia has no control over anymore, Equestria probably would have a moon over it right now. Unless of course, in the years Nightmare Moon cast eternal night she had a change of heart and lowered her moon.....Which is hypothetical because that never happened and Nightmare Moon wasn't victorious....

Also, we can't jump to conclusions just yet. There's still more to come regarding "Twilight's Destiny". Which, as we all know, Celestia is involved with. (Unless of course the entire season premier was focused just on her leaning self sacrifice)

What about Luna though? Why was she so eager to go help Cadence in the Crystal Empire? Is it possible she has a history with King Sombra? 

Yes, this is irrelevant to "Twilight's next level of studies, but it may mean more screen time for Luna!!

The Crystal Empire made a return after a thousand years....A thousand years? Sound familiar, right?

So how else would Luna have known about the Empire? She must have been banished to the moon AFTER things happened with the C. Empire. And why else would she be wanting to go so bad?

Maybe she wants to have revenge on Sombra after he did something? Perhaps Sombra and Luna are lovers who have been seperated?

(Do not want...)

Or my ultimate theory!!! Maybe before Sombra was defeated, he cast a hex on Luna. The hex relating to greed and/or jealousy. Possibly leading to the Nightmare Moon thing we are all familiar with. 

Also you can tell, even if my theory is wrong, that Luna must have a history with the C. Empire. For she wanted to go and she was mad a Twilight. Why should Twilight get to go and not Luna?

Also, is it possible Celestia knows that Luna wants more screentime and is trolling her by letting the main character, who gets the most screen time, go instead?

Trollestia strikes again...

Now on to Twilight:

Warning:

May contain possible spoilers

READ AT OWN RISK

Celestia and Luna

(day, dusk, night, dawn)

Dawn + Dusk = Twilight

"We've had a special connection before we even met!"

ONE main star 

(representing Twilight)

FIVE smaller stars

(representing the other Mane Six (minus Twilight of course))

"If you succeed, you will be ready for the next level."

I don't know where I'm going with this, nevermind...

Trixie!!!!

(major spoilers be here for next episode)

Now, we've all seen this, right?

Totally not a hint of his survival....Now take a look at Trixie's new necklace....I miss her hat and cap....

Same colour scheme and close design to King Sombra...

What I'm getting to, is that perhaps Sombra is controlling or corrupted Trixie to get revenge on Twilight? You all saw how he can controll his horn even when it's seperated from his body, didn't you. That's proof enough.

And, I'm out of ideas.