BroNYcon 2013 Discussion

[MarchingHammers]

Hello all, I am unsure if anyone has found out yet, but BroNYcon 2013 has been announced! The location, which is in a bit of an odd spot, is in the Baltimore Convention center. The con will be 3 DAYS from August 2nd to the 4th, They are selling tickets at this time at a discounted price of 65 dollars for a limited time for "early birds."

So, I plan on going, and perhaps we could plan a meetup or some other kind of thing like we did last year. What about you guys?

[starswirlthebearded]

I'm extremely disappointed in bronycon.

The mission statement was initially to be a brony convention for the greater NY area. Now... the convention will be held in Baltimore, some 320km away from NY, outside of the tristate area. It is on the weekend of the home coming game of the local sports team, whose games will be on the same days as the convention (at least in part) which will make hotels harder to come by. And to top it all off the week before Otakon, the largest anime convention in the United states (barring anime expo, which is an expo not a con) which will be held at the same exact convention center.

This whole thing was poorly planned. I won't be going and honestly they should be ashamed of themselves. There are plenty of viable convention centers within the tristate area that could have suited their needs and chosen a monumentally better weekend to hold it.

Honestly they also expect 6k more than 2012, and never, in my experience, has any new con, except comic con international, grown that much in one year. And those are cons with wider appeal due to non-specificity with industry support.

I feel like Bronycon is setting itself up for failure this year. In order for this con to be even a remote success they need the big 3 from 2012 to make a reappearance, plus even more talent from the show (maybe some key animators), most if not all of the voice cast, and a miracle that bronies planning to attend Otakon will be able to work it out so they can attend both.

Seriously, I'm extremely disappointed in how this was handled and am shocked at the amount of oversight and honestly the overall attitude of the convention organizers. I'm dumbfounded by all of this.

Edit: Forgot... also the way they are doing "early bird" is horrid as well. Limiting it to the first 500? Really? That means that 90%+ (probably closer to 98% if they reach even near their goal) of the con attendees will be paying the premium for the event, something in my 12 some years of con attending, I have never seen.

[MarchingHammers]

I agree with you 100% Starswirl. I don't think the con is going to grow that much, if not decrease due to the move. It is called BroNYcon for a reason, and moving outside of the tri state area has caused numerous issues, and a feeling of betrayal to the fans who expected it to be in NJ or NY. Also, is the Early Bird only for the first 500?! That is ridiculous! I feel betrayed, but going is not out of the question for me, so I am not sure what to think.

[abc]

ok i feel like there are upsides and downsides to this

upsides, um the only one i can think of is that its right at my front door pretty much, considering that i live only an hour away from the convention center, and i live in baltimore

ok now for the downsides

i was hoping it would be in newyork this year so i could visit my brother and we could both go but thats out of the question, as for hotels and living spaces.... baltimore isnt a tourist attraction spot so theres no types of hotels round here

also the fact that its in baltimore is another thing, i mean were just a small, not too known city, weve only become recently known becauseo f our football team, whitch is kind of discourageing

and this isnt the "safest place to live" on earth either...

idk i have mixed feelings about this....

[ArcadePerfect]

If it's in Baltimore, unless I have my license by then, there is NO way I am going to be able to go to this con. NY was fine, Meadowlands was a breeze, but Baltimore?! 3 hours

[MarchingHammers]

If it's in Baltimore, unless I have my license by then, there is NO way I am going to be able to go to this con. NY was fine, Meadowlands was a breeze, but Baltimore?! 3 hours

There is always the option of Amtrack! $49 from Penn Station in New York isn't unreasonable.

[SteelEagle]

It was a poor decision. The baseball games won't be a major problem. They play the Seattle Mariners from the 2nd to 4th. That is a long distance for Mariners fans to travel and you won't see them do so: The team sucks(or at best is just boring) and Seattle in the summer is beautiful and even fans of the team will have better options locally. I also don't think the con that follows will be a huge problem. There is some crossover, but I don't see it being a major problem in terms of venue. You could argue in terms of date, though.

To me, it's stupid just because it seems pointless. Need more space? There are bigger centers in the tristate area than the Meadowlands that suit your needs and keep the con in the same classical area. Better transportation and access to hotels overall. No real point in moving to Baltimore.

[MegaMare]

Baltimore eh? I guess a change of scenery would be nice. I thought last year's location was fine. It had hotels conveniently around so I don't think overnight stay was a problem. Was last year's BronyCon that crowded they needed to move? I only went Saturday so maybe I missed the big day everyone came.

[MarchingHammers]

Baltimore eh? I guess a change of scenery would be nice. I thought last year's location was fine. It had hotels conveniently around so I don't think overnight stay was a problem. Was last year's BronyCon that crowded they needed to move? I only went Saturday so maybe I missed the big day everyone came.

Saturday was the big day, so yeah. I hope they move it back up north eventually.

[starswirlthebearded]

It was a poor decision. The baseball games won't be a major problem. They play the Seattle Mariners from the 2nd to 4th. That is a long distance for Mariners fans to travel and you won't see them do so: The team sucks(or at best is just boring) and Seattle in the summer is beautiful and even fans of the team will have better options locally. I also don't think the con that follows will be a huge problem. There is some crossover, but I don't see it being a major problem in terms of venue. You could argue in terms of date, though.

To me, it's stupid just because it seems pointless. Need more space? There are bigger centers in the tristate area than the Meadowlands that suit your needs and keep the con in the same classical area. Better transportation and access to hotels overall. No real point in moving to Baltimore.

I hate to disagree, but baseball homecoming games don't work out well for cons. I remember when it happened for Otakon (I didn't attend, but I heard no end of complaining from friends who went). Basically what happens is this... People who are going to all the games, sometimes decide to make a weekend out of it, so people who are out of the commutable distance (I mean less than an hour away) sometimes end up staying in the hotel. And some really dedicated fans come as well. Then you have the team plus managerial staff. Add in any family of the players that want to come. And let's face it, teams sucking doesn't make fans any less dedicated nor crazy. So the hotel will still have less vacancies. If the stadium is any where near capacity, the hotel will be packed, no matter the skill of the teams that are facing off.

Date there are two problems... 1) There is overlapping. And probably more than you think... There are already fans who claim that they need to chose. And there are a lot of artists who would rather attend a con of 35k strong than a brony-centric con of 5k strong. Most artists don't like doing cons that are so close together, so artist alley might suffer. 2) THE HEAT! THE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE BALTIMORE HEAT! That is one reason I hated Otakon when I used to go...

[SteelEagle]

I hate to disagree, but baseball homecoming games don't work out well for cons. I remember when it happened for Otakon (I didn't attend, but I heard no end of complaining from friends who went). Basically what happens is this... People who are going to all the games, sometimes decide to make a weekend out of it, so people who are out of the commutable distance (I mean less than an hour away) sometimes end up staying in the hotel. And some really dedicated fans come as well. Then you have the team plus managerial staff. Add in any family of the players that want to come. And let's face it, teams sucking doesn't make fans any less dedicated nor crazy. So the hotel will still have less vacancies. If the stadium is any where near capacity, the hotel will be packed, no matter the skill of the teams that are facing off.

Date there are two problems... 1) There is overlapping. And probably more than you think... There are already fans who claim that they need to chose. And there are a lot of artists who would rather attend a con of 35k strong than a brony-centric con of 5k strong. Most artists don't like doing cons that are so close together, so artist alley might suffer. 2) THE HEAT! THE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE BALTIMORE HEAT! That is one reason I hated Otakon when I used to go...

It's the Mariners. I've been a fan for eighteen years and attend 30+ home games a year. We have a hard enough time filling Safeco on a beautiful day against the Yankees and have at best a meager national fanbase. You won't have any real problem. 9/10 of all fans that go to that game will be local and that ten percent won't necessarily all be needing hotels.

[starswirlthebearded]

It's the Mariners. I've been a fan for eighteen years and attend 30+ home games a year. We have a hard enough time filling Safeco on a beautiful day against the Yankees and have at best a meager national fanbase. You won't have any real problem. 9/10 of all fans that go to that game will be local and that ten percent won't necessarily all be needing hotels.

I'm working on experience from when it happened to Otakon a few years ago... it wasn't good... In fact... my friends described it as... well that is not appropriate for this forum... but let us just say "terribad" This is from experience. It is just a bad weekend to do it... trust me on this For many many reasons

[SteelEagle]

Oh, I trust you. But it's one of those things where a pairing of teams means a whole slew of things. Mariner fans do not travel well and never have. You won't see a noticeable bump when it comes to hotels, at least nothing that considering the numbers we are discussing for Bronycon and Otakon will bring. In terms of hotel stays, it's safe to say that Bronycon will have more rooms than the three game series between the Orioles and Mariners, and Otakon will dwarf them both combined.

[featherquill]

Well this settles one thing for me.

I wasn't sure if I was going to volunteer this year or just enjoy it.

Now I can't afford to not volunteer.

[starswirlthebearded]

Oh, I trust you. But it's one of those things where a pairing of teams means a whole slew of things. Mariner fans do not travel well and never have. You won't see a noticeable bump when it comes to hotels, at least nothing that considering the numbers we are discussing for Bronycon and Otakon will bring. In terms of hotel stays, it's safe to say that Bronycon will have more rooms than the three game series between the Orioles and Mariners, and Otakon will dwarf them both combined.

Ok... let me give you some numbers.... 50k seats in the stadium... lets say 25k seats are filled (half which is probably low balling it)... Let's say that 0 Mariners fans come (I still don't think that absolute 0 number is correct, despite what you think... I think at least 100-1000 will attend). Now lets add in fans coming from across the state or boarder line states whom are still fans. Let's say that a accounts for an additional 5k fans. (I am giving rough estimates, it could be more, or less, but bear with me because that won't matter). Let's say not all of them are staying the entire weekend... That still kills the hotel reservations for that weekend. Even if those rooms will only be filled one day, they will still not be capable of being filled by bronies whom want to stay in those rooms for all three days. The rooms will effectively be dead. Those 2.5k (assuming people room together) plus rooms of just people staying there for whatever reason There are only 757 rooms at the Baltimore Hilton. So that hotel is effectively filled and there are still people looking for rooms for the game and perhaps general vacationing or other reasons. Now if we assume that all the hotels have approximately 1000 rooms... The three closest hotels are all filled with goers of the baseball game. ALL THREE DONE. Now again, I'm estimating, but there will be at least 1000 rooms taken so that is 1/3rd of possible rooms for three hotels in the immediate vicinity. And how many are they expecting, if they reach their max? 10k? How many do you think will need rooms? Do you really think that the hotel situation will be all nicey nice? It wasn't the case with Otakon a few years ago. So why would BronyCon be any different?

Surely there will be more rooms taken for Otakon, but don't underestimate the sporting impact of hotel reservations. Or any other event or other considerations. The hotel situation will be horrid, I can almost guarantee that. And remember... if it comes down to a choice... Who is more appealing to the hotel to give the room to... A sporting fan, or a convention goer (whom they know will probably over crowd the rooms as per usual) (and if they know of the convention, it adds the stigma of BRONY con goers)... I think they'll take the former. For them it is a no brainier.

As for Otakon the week after...? 35k con vs a con that barely broke 4k last year with Faust, Strong and DeLancie. I wonder if the crossover will detriment it... Personally more than you figure, in my opinion.

Everything is going against BronyCon this year. I want it to be a success, and would love for them to make the 6k jump they want (they want 10k, 2012 was 4k, and I should mention that NO CON in this area has made that large of a jump that wasn't affiliated with Comic Con International). But with everything working against them (including many parents not wanting to let younger fans travel to Baltimore for a ponycon from the greater NYC area). But I do not see that happening. They are making too many mistakes for that to happen, at least in my opinion as someone who has staffed many cons over the years.

[SteelEagle]

Ok... let me give you some numbers.... 50k seats in the stadium... lets say 25k seats are filled (half which is probably low balling it)... Let's say that 0 Mariners fans come (I still don't think that absolute 0 number is correct, despite what you think... I think at least 100-1000 will attend). Now lets add in fans coming from across the state or boarder line states whom are still fans. Let's say that a accounts for an additional 5k fans. (I am giving rough estimates, it could be more, or less, but bear with me because that won't matter). Let's say not all of them are staying the entire weekend... That still kills the hotel reservations for that weekend. Even if those rooms will only be filled one day, they will still not be capable of being filled by bronies whom want to stay in those rooms for all three days. The rooms will effectively be dead. Those 2.5k (assuming people room together) plus rooms of just people staying there for whatever reason There are only 757 rooms at the Baltimore Hilton. So that hotel is effectively filled and there are still people looking for rooms for the game and perhaps general vacationing or other reasons. Now if we assume that all the hotels have approximately 1000 rooms... The three closest hotels are all filled with goers of the baseball game. ALL THREE DONE. Now again, I'm estimating, but there will be at least 1000 rooms taken so that is 1/3rd of possible rooms for three hotels in the immediate vicinity. And how many are they expecting, if they reach their max? 10k? How many do you think will need rooms? Do you really think that the hotel situation will be all nicey nice? It wasn't the case with Otakon a few years ago. So why would BronyCon be any different?

Surely there will be more rooms taken for Otakon, but don't underestimate the sporting impact of hotel reservations. Or any other event or other considerations. The hotel situation will be horrid, I can almost guarantee that. And remember... if it comes down to a choice... Who is more appealing to the hotel to give the room to... A sporting fan, or a convention goer (whom they know will probably over crowd the rooms as per usual) (and if they know of the convention, it adds the stigma of BRONY con goers)... I think they'll take the former. For them it is a no brainier.

As for Otakon the week after...? 35k con vs a con that barely broke 4k last year with Faust, Strong and DeLancie. I wonder if the crossover will detriment it... Personally more than you figure, in my opinion.

Everything is going against BronyCon this year. I want it to be a success, and would love for them to make the 6k jump they want (they want 10k, 2012 was 4k, and I should mention that NO CON in this area has made that large of a jump that wasn't affiliated with Comic Con International). But with everything working against them (including many parents not wanting to let younger fans travel to Baltimore for a ponycon from the greater NYC area). But I do not see that happening. They are making too many mistakes for that to happen, at least in my opinion as someone who has staffed many cons over the years.

Let me give you some numbers.

Baltimore averaged 26k a game last year(Seat capacity is 46k). This includes rivalries in their division, interleague play, special events, etc. Against a team like the Mariners, you'll see no more than 25K if you're lucky, closer to 21k or 22k more likely. Secondly, this is the last set of a nine-game homestand. Historically, those are the lowest attended, especially when it is six games in six days. You could maybe knock it down to around 20k. Third, when you're discussing teams that move nationally to play a game, the travel impact of a fanbase is minimal unless it is a franchise with a strong national following. The vast majority of fans who will be attending, the overwhelming vast majority, the overwhelming supermajority, will be locals who can make the game easily. If you follow baseball at all, you'll realize that this is an unattractive game for fans of all stripes to attend. Orioles fans who would need hotels could instead go a week earlier and see the Red Sox. Mariners fans, if they would need to travel and get hotels(BTW, thanks for providing a hard number that I never gave), could wait travel a wee bit further to see a game that matters.

The impact on the local hotel market- because people aren't going to flock to the Hilton- will be minimal. I would be shocked completely, with years of actually traveling to follow my teams when i have the income to do so, to see the total hotel market reach 300+ capacity daily because of the series.. Not just the Hilton. The whole city wide market and let me tell you, the Hilton guts you like a dog and I've never stayed at one when I had tickets and traveled. A common tactic and one I was taught is to pick hotels and motels in the suburbs. Any location nearby that can be reached by any form of public transportation works, though a car rental is often the choice.

Also, hotels tend to not like travelling sports fans who are liable only to themselves. You trash a room during a con, a hotel can refuse to have special rates and get involved next time, there are recourses. They could even refuse to host the con and the con can get a black eye. Us evil sports fans trash the room and all they can go is, "Darn. Well, guess we have to burn it with fire now."

BronyCon is hurt more by being within a week of Otakon, far more, unbelievably far more, than the games.

My point with Otakon is this: If Baltimore couldn't handle the meager presence of Bronycon and the baseball series, then how in the heck could it possibly support Otakon? Even if I went batcrud crazy and decided to say that the series would have an impact of 19k travelers(Hint: This has absolutely zero chance of happening) over the weekend and say that Bronycon does 10k, that's still only 29k. Otakon is 30k.

Baltimore can support it from a hotel standpoint. That isn't a problem. Otakon is a problem in as much as it presents a choice, but considering that there is a fairly significant difference between them, I don't see it as being a massive problem. It'll peel some away sure, but I don't see it making a difference of several thousand.

The problems with this move have less to do with hard numbers and more about stifling potential and generally the senseless of it. There is a superior transportation network that is now wasted. *That* will be the major problem.

[starswirlthebearded]

The problems with this move have less to do with hard numbers and more about stifling potential and generally the senseless of it. There is a superior transportation network that is now wasted. *That* will be the major problem.

Assuming you are right about the ball game being minimal impact... Which it will still have an impact no matter what. There is still Otakon and vendors who will have to choose. Transportation... Extreme summer heat (one of the worst parts of Otakon), the fact that BronyCon barely hit 4k last year with the big three in attendance (something which I severely doubt will occur again), other fans that will have to choose because they can't attend both, alienating the NYC fanbase (some of the original goers won't be able to go for various reasons), horrible ticket system (only 500 get early bird)... have I missed anything? They are just being stupid this year. Should have been the same weekend as 2012, and somewhere within the greater NY area.

And I still don't think they'll make a 6k jump. I'd be impressed with a 2k jump.

[SteelEagle]

Assuming you are right about the ball game being minimal impact... Which it will still have an impact no matter what. There is still Otakon and vendors who will have to choose. Transportation... Extreme summer heat (one of the worst parts of Otakon), the fact that BronyCon barely hit 4k last year with the big three in attendance (something which I severely doubt will occur again), other fans that will have to choose because they can't attend both, alienating the NYC fanbase (some of the original goers won't be able to go for various reasons), horrible ticket system (only 500 get early bird)... have I missed anything? They are just being stupid this year. Should have been the same weekend as 2012, and somewhere within the greater NY area.

And I still don't think they'll make a 6k jump. I'd be impressed with a 2k jump.

We are in general agreement on these parts. I think they *could* have made a 4k-6k jump if they stayed, now I expect 2k-3k and no more. Still a successful con, but stifled.

As for the NY bronies, they can try Amtrak:

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/831/986/New-York-Washington-DC-Schedule-20120723,0.pdf

(Admittedly, maybe not the best schedule as I spent one minute looking it up.)

[MarchingHammers]

We are in general agreement on these parts. I think they *could* have made a 4k-6k jump if they stayed, now I expect 2k-3k and no more. Still a successful con, but stifled.

As for the NY bronies, they can try Amtrak:

http://www.amtrak.co...-20120723,0.pdf

(Admittedly, maybe not the best schedule as I spent one minute looking it up.)

This is the Amtrak Schedule I am using. A round trip is really cheap, only 49 dollars. http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak

[Hippo]

i did a little research, and most threads I found about the 2008 Balrimore Oriole games (which was against the Rangers) and Otakon, people were more happy to be able to have a baseball game to attend if they wanted over the fact that there was more traffic. Not one person complained about hotel availability.

And as far as the traveling teams go, the Mariners plan their hotels and travel stuff way in advanced. In fact, I bet they have made hotel arrangements already for that weekend for their players and managers.

[starswirlthebearded]

We are in general agreement on these parts. I think they *could* have made a 4k-6k jump if they stayed, now I expect 2k-3k and no more. Still a successful con, but stifled.

As for the NY bronies, they can try Amtrak:

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/831/986/New-York-Washington-DC-Schedule-20120723,0.pdf

(Admittedly, maybe not the best schedule as I spent one minute looking it up.)

Yes, some will be able to do that. But not all. There are many ways to make it down. However there is also the monetary concern and time. You can't commute to BCC every day and still be able to enjoy the con. A lot of the NYC fans wanted a con they could commute to. Which is fair, and that is why another con is in the process of being made.

And honestly, be realistic... 6k jump for a pony con is a lot. Yes the fandom is growing, but it is still a new fandom, and one dedicated to only one show. If they stayed in NY, it would have only made maybe a 4k jump at most. 6k would only be possible with an extremely impressive talent list. With this con, if Murphy's law decides to screw with them with what I suggested, at worst it will bring around 2.5k (mind you, that is if everything goes wrong) at best I see it hitting 5-6k. If they obtain a mind blowing guest list like they did with 2012 maybe 8k. 10k is just not possible for this con. Absolute max is probably 9k.

i did a little research, and most threads I found about the 2008 Balrimore Oriole games (which was against the Rangers) and Otakon, people were more happy to be able to have a baseball game to attend if they wanted over the fact that there was more traffic. Not one person complained about hotel availability.

And as far as the traveling teams go, the Mariners plan their hotels and travel stuff way in advanced. In fact, I bet they have made hotel arrangements already for that weekend for their players and managers.

I only talked to my friends who were regular Otakon attendees and vendors and a couple of staff. The games made things harder for the con. Perhaps the general con attendees enjoyed it because they could see a ball game, but that wasn't the consensus I got from word of mouth from my friends and those that they knew. But every experience is different...

[SteelEagle]

I think you underestimate the size of the fandom. It's new and growing still at a rapid pace, and when you consider that Bronycon sold out in advance last year, I think growth is basically guaranteed. The question is, how much? probably not as much as they're hoping.

[starswirlthebearded]

I think you underestimate the size of the fandom. It's new and growing still at a rapid pace, and when you consider that Bronycon sold out in advance last year, I think growth is basically guaranteed. The question is, how much? probably not as much as they're hoping.

Last year it only sold out a week or two in advance. It isn't like they sold out MONTHS in advance. If they had, I'd agree. BronyCon barely sold out in advance (again, it was only 4k). And that was with John DeLancie, Lauren Faust and Tara Strong all in attendance (personally, I don't think it would have sold out at all had those three not been able to attend). There is no guarantee they can get all three of them again. And there is no guarantee that they can get nearly the full cast again. If they do get full cast + Faust I could see 8-9k. So if they pull off 2012 again + Tabitha, that is the only possible way I can see them hitting the number they want, which is 10k. But again, that is banking on a lot. I think you are actually overestimating the fandom. Again, the only tristate con that ever make a jump over 6k in attendance to my knowledge were those run by Comic Con international. No anime con, nor sci-fi con made that sort of jump. (I'm going through a list of about 15 or so anime, sci-fi and gaming cons and not one made that sort of jump) If you would like to show me a convention, any convention, let alone one dedicated to only one show, that made that huge of a jump this early on, please do. And all of this is still barring the fact that some people will simply have to choose between BronyCon and Otakon, and Otakon will win almost 100% of the time. I'm not underestimating the fandom at all, I'm treating the fandom as what it is, a new and growing fandom of a singular show.

They would have had a better shot at those numbers had they kept the same weekend (last weekend of June) and kept it within the tristate area. There are many nice convention centers, BCC the weekend before Otakon is just a mistake. They, by doing that, effectively alienated their NY fanbase and alienated anyone who is a fan of both MLP and Japanese anime and games.

[MarchingHammers]

The choice for me was rather easy, for two reasons:

1. I have many more friends going to BroMDcon (new name I came up with) than Otakon

2. I am more invested in this con, as I watch only a small amount of anime, namely Hellsing and Gundam. Plus, NYCC has all the Gundam I will ever need, so it doesn't bother me so much not going to Otakon.

[starswirlthebearded]

The choice for me was rather easy, for two reasons:

1. I have many more friends going to BroMDcon (new name I came up with) than Otakon

2. I am more invested in this con, as I watch only a small amount of anime, namely Hellsing and Gundam. Plus, NYCC has all the Gundam I will ever need, so it doesn't bother me so much not going to Otakon.

I'm not saying that people won't choose BronyCon... I'm saying that will detriment its growth. People will end up choosing Otakon over BronyCon. And there will be issues. And there are issues with pricing already. There is also no logical reason why they moved to MD in the first place, let alone the week before another major convention. It is just a huge oversight. I don't want it to fail. So I really hope they can pull it out. I honestly think they have 3-4k on lock. (2.5 is if everything goes wrong, and there are severe scheduling issues with talent, which I severely doubt). However, I will guarantee you that if they do not breach 6k attendance, this con will be viewed as a failure. They booked a monumentally bigger venue and will have to pay for it. I have a feeling that they chose to do pricing the way they did because of this. Had they done early bird like most cons, there would be no way to pay for BCC if they only hit 10k attendance. So they upped the price to $75 for 98% of the attendees if they hit 10k. That is probably their "safe" number where they know they can pay for the convention center. If it is severely under that though it could prove to be a serious issue for the organizers.