Which Elements did Celestia and Luna Wield?

[EquestrianScholar]

Which Elements of Harmony did Princess Celestia and Princess Luna wield so many years ago?

I personally feel that Celestia wielded the Elements of Kindness and Generosity, as well as possibly the Element of Magic.

My reasoning for this is because of how deeply Celestia has been shown to care about her subjects and how I would see her being with type to give all her time and attention to helping her little ponies even back then. This could have also gone into what the issue was as Celestia could have gotten so absorbed in her responsibilities and duties that she would leave very little time if any for her sister, even to notice that Luna was struggling. This can be partly why she lost her connection to the elements she did wield because she had not show such care to her sister before she turned into Nightmare Moon, her time and attention.

I would not have Celestia wield the Element of Honesty because of the fact she has from what I've seen not been the type to always be fully honest, perhaps even to herself.

Honesty is a much more fitting element for Luna as she seems to care quite a bit about honesty and is shown to be very honest with how she feels and what she thinks.

Now before I go on I would like to express my definition of the Element of Magic. This element is not based on how powerful the magics of the wielder but instead represents a form of unity, in this case that a friendship, the magic of the bond that can be formed between ponies so different from each other.

On Luna and what elements she would be the wield I feel we cannot look simply at the episodes she's currently been in as it is very likely much is changed since she had become Nightmare Moon. She she was shown to be very serious, not even understanding what fun was and perhaps she didn't understand what it was until then.

Yet at the same time I do not quite think the Element of Laughter fits Celestia per say, though she does have a sense of humor. The problem is I feel this humor may have come partly to cope with the loss of her sister so many years ago, and that perhaps it was Celestia that setup the protocol we were seeing Luna using during Nightmare Night over the years she has changed, relax this protocol, adapted perhaps purposely so that she could be closer to her subjects.

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Well that is enough rambling from me, if anyone has their own thoughts please post and perhaps we can even come up with something more solid together.

[Lux]

I'd say that Luna wielded Magic, Generosity, and Loyalty due to those being close to her personality.

Celestia therefore wielded Kindness, Honesty, and Laughter.

Because Celestia had to use all six Elements against her sister and fellow Element s Bearer, that is why she could no longer use them and had to find another who could use them, which led to meeting the six ponies we all know!

[Rosewind]

I think both sisters shared them all together.

[EquestrianScholar]

I'd say that Luna wielded Magic, Generosity, and Loyalty due to those being close to her personality.

Celestia therefore wielded Kindness, Honesty, and Laughter.

Because Celestia had to use all six Elements against her sister and fellow Element s Bearer, that is why she could no longer use them and had to find another who could use them, which led to meeting the six ponies we all know!

Could you perhaps explain your choices?

Also as I said before I don't feel Celestia would have wielded the Element Honesty. While she has been a good ruler she has not always been honest, she had hide information and lied to get results.

[Needlemouse]

Withholding information isn't the same as lying, especially when it's to spare people suffering, or to protect them - or would you call Applejack a liar when she refused to talk about why she didn't want to go home?

[EquestrianScholar]

Withholding information isn't the same as lying, especially when it's to spare people suffering, or to protect them - or would you call Applejack a liar when she refused to talk about why she didn't want to go home?

Hmm, perhaps so.

So which Elements do you feel each sister wielded? Also explain your reasoning.

[RarityDash]

It's likely as Rose said and they both shared them in some manner.

However, if we're to say each used three in particular, I'd split it as such:

Celestia:

Laughter - she has a very pronounced if somewhat subtle sense of humor; Luna comparatively seems to start with a fundamental lack of understanding as to what fun is in Luna Ecipsed. This one is the most obvious to me.

Generosity - she is an ultimately benevolent ruler shown to work for the sake of others. She makes personally difficult decisions for the sake of everypony. Luna has elements of Generosity too, but it's not as pronounced and obvious for me. The fact that she is at times fundamentally jealous and demanding doesn't help.

Loyalty - Celestia is sort of an embodiment of law in the FiM universe. Loyalty is something that ties strongly into that. Luna on the other hand is notable as a betrayer. Of course, some might see Celestia's actions toward Luna as unloyal, but I would say very much the opposite. Celestia made the difficult choice out of both loyalty to her sister who had been corrupted and to her subjects, who were threatened.

Luna:

Magic - Luna clearly has great magical prowess. She can do things that we don't even know if Celestia can do, like breathe life into inanimate objects and enter dreams, not to mention the things she did as Nightmare Moon. She also has a dark mystique to her which says element of magic to me. On the friendship side of magic, Luna also displays great needs there.

Kindness - this may immediately seem backwards since Celestia is better at showing her kindness, but I think there's enough to support it. Luna is very kind. She goes out of her way to help children overcome their fears. She exhibits deep concern over her ability to relate with others; she desires to receive kindness from them in return, the idea of being an object of fear to everypony being completely unacceptable to her. Celestia can be stern and seems more comfortable with her position as an authority; Luna wants to relate to others personally.

Honesty - Luna is very much defined by her tendency to be honest with herself. Celestia can be subversive and stoop to misdirection and concealing information when its necessary. Luna is more likely to act on instinct. Whether its the jealous feelings that lead to Nightmare Moon or her disapproval over Nightmare Night, she is incredibly open about how she feels, almost to the point of getting lost in it all. Her expressing concern at the beginning of the Crystal Empire episode just further confirms it to me.

[EquestrianScholar]

Magic - Luna clearly has great magical prowess. She can do things that we don't even know if Celestia can do, like breathe life into inanimate objects and enter dreams, not to mention the things she did as Nightmare Moon. She also has a dark mystique to her which says element of magic to me. On the friendship side of magic, Luna also displays great needs there.

You did a good job of explaining yourself but you must of missed how I defined the Element of Magic so let me quote myself because that's the definition we're going to be using in this thread.

"Now before I go on I would like to express my definition of the Element of Magic. This element is not based on how powerful the magics of the wielder but instead represents a form of unity, in this case that a friendship, the magic of the bond that can be formed between ponies so different from each other."

That and it could be argued who has the stronger magic... yet that's beside the point. I had said with my definition of the element that it is not based on a magical ability of the wielder but instead based on their ability to bring together the other elements and those connected to them.

[Needlemouse]

If that were true, then Twilight wouldn't be the one wielding the Element of Magic, given she had literally only JUST learned of friendship, nor did she embody the qualities of friendship at the time (she did, however, embody the qualities of magic) whereas all the other girls had clearly proven themselves to hold the qualities eligible for the other Elements. And in Twilight's case, her friendship levels were not even to that extent that you're professing. The Element of Magic is AWAKENED by friendship, yes, as friendship bolsters the person whom the Element belongs to, i.e. the whole "with my friends by my side, there is nothing I cannot do." However, it still belongs to the person who has the most magical potential, on the other hand - magic is that person's very being, brought to its fullest potential by those around them. Otherwise ANYONE with a strong sense of friendship and unity could of gotten their hands on that thing.

[EquestrianScholar]

Yet given the nature of the other elements that would not fit. Each of the Elements of Harmony embody a quality or trait needed for friendship to exist between ponies. Thus the amount of magic one possesses would not be what was needed to be the bearer of the Element of Magic. This is why I have it as the quility or trait of one that can bring together ponies different from each other, and more importantly keep them together.

How many times has Twilight brought her friends together when the need was greatest, how many times has she reminded them of their friendship?

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Also for those who feel that Princess Luna is the Element of Magic because she seems to have stronger magical ability based on I guess her ability to control the weather and change her appearance... I don't think you are looking at the big picture.

First off if Princess Luna really was more powerful, magically or otherwise, she would not have needed to allow the darkness make her more powerful by becoming Nightmare Moon (a superpowered evil side if you will).

Second have you all forgotten the fact the based on the show one should not be able to use the power of the EoH if the bearers are not in harmony. By all accounts Princess Celestia should not have been able to use the Elements of Harmony to banish Nightmare Moon into the moon, as she had lost harmony with her sister.

Yet by the strength of her will and I feel magical ability Princess Celestia was able to use the EoH is but once more and incompletely before they turn to stone.

Lastly do not forget that for 1000 years Princess Celestia controlled the Sun and Moon, having them rise and fall is they should. Princess Celestia taking on the duties that were meant for both her and her sister... duties that took the whole of the unicorn race to do as spoken in the Hearth rWarming Eve episode.

I do not feel one can call Princess Celestia magically inferior her to younger sister.

[EquestrianScholar]

Ignore this post

[Needlemouse]

Luna didn't need to use 'darkness' to enhance her powers. She just shrouded herself in a veil of darkness as to befit her new self-image - another act of utilizing magic in doing so. Also, if Celestia was that immensely powerful, or at the very least magically equal to Luna, then explain how she was defeated by Nightmare Moon upon her return from banishment (Word of Faust). In the first place, raising and lowering the sun and the moon were clearly not that epic feats, considering that unicorns had been doing it since even before the time of the two alicorn princesses.

[EquestrianScholar]

Well let's consider what facts we currently have from the show and from the comics... which the comics give a whole lot more on and I will treat as canon until if and when the show counters it.

In the comic series' second four-part story arc, Nightmare Moon is shown to be a completely separate entity from Princess Luna. It is revealed that Nightmare Moon is a creature of darkness born on the moon whose very presence corrupts the denizens of the moon. Through her power over nightmares, Nightmare Moon was able to feed off Luna's insecurities of living in her sister's shadow, thus allowing her to take over Luna's mind, which ultimately lead to her being banished to the moon for a thousand years. Although the Elements of Harmony were able to restore Luna back to her original form, Nightmare Moon herself continued to live on.

More can be read here: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Luna

[Needlemouse]

However, that does not necessitate a power-up for Luna. All it did was possess her and make use of Luna's powers - i.e. Luna actually WAS that powerful. So my point still remains.

[EquestrianScholar]

Yet in the comic it shows Rarity gaining a clear power up when she becomes 'Nightmare Rarity', being able to create potent illusions and almost even deceiving Spike. As the villain and having been possessed Rarity is much more powerful with abilities similar to that of Nightmare Moon.

... actually Nightmare Rarity had created very potent illusions and deceptions that the rest the Mane Six had to overcome as well not just Spike

[Needlemouse]

No idea. For one thing I don't really treat the comics as canon in the first place - especially since Luna has been shown to be able to take on the image of Nightmare Moon any time that she pleases - the form was basically just an image she concocted to suit her mentality.

[SunlightHeart]

If that were true, then Twilight wouldn't be the one wielding the Element of Magic, given she had literally only JUST learned of friendship, nor did she embody the qualities of friendship at the time (she did, however, embody the qualities of magic) whereas all the other girls had clearly proven themselves to hold the qualities eligible for the other Elements. And in Twilight's case, her friendship levels were not even to that extent that you're professing. The Element of Magic is AWAKENED by friendship, yes, as friendship bolsters the person whom the Element belongs to, i.e. the whole "with my friends by my side, there is nothing I cannot do." However, it still belongs to the person who has the most magical potential, on the other hand - magic is that person's very being, brought to its fullest potential by those around them. Otherwise ANYONE with a strong sense of friendship and unity could of gotten their hands on that thing.

Who is to say anyone couldn't have? Thats always the case with these magic items that chose wielder. The mane six were just in the right place at the right time to get said macguffins.

The elements change wielders, they are probably like Thors hammer.

[EquestrianScholar]

In Princess Twilight Sparkle it shows Princess Celestia wielding the Elements of Magic, Kindness, and Generosity while Princess Luna is shown wielding the Elements of Laughter, Loyalty, and Honesty while facing Discord.

So now there isn't any question of who wielded what.