Question about Princess Celestia

[Mojo]

Fellow ponies, I have a serious question.

In a large portion of the fanart and fanfics I've read for MLP FiM (I admit I haven't seen/read them all) there seems to be a trend to view Princess Celestia as a 'tyrant' or as a ruler 'with an iron fisthoof'. There's even a comic series I saw that has Twilight Sparkle and her friends acting as 'underground agents' to overthrow Celestia's brutal regime!

Anypony have any idea why this is happening?

Personally, I like BOTH Princess Celestia and Princess Luna. I truly hope Luna gets more 'facetime' in Season 2.

They were meant to rule Equestria TOGETHER, and I have no problem with that.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

The theory of Celestia being a tyrant may have something to do with a certain Princess banishing her younger sister to a desolate, lonely, empty, barren location from which there was no escape for 1000 years.

[TheWereCat]

The whole 'tyrant leader' probably rose from the Trollestia idea- which, in turn, I should mention, came about since Celestia seems to purposefully make problems/ make situations more frustrating then they should be.

Also, banishing her sister for acting 'out of line' could also be seen as a reason why. And we've heard from the mane cast about how she banishes ponies to the Everfree forest.

[CherryRie]

Well you see...

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I made that best young flier meme as a joke really. I mean, yes, Celestia has the power to raise the sun, so raising a falling pony shouldn't be too hard, but on the other hand, she probably could have stopped their fall at the last second if it looked like Rainbow Dash wasn't going to reach them in time.

Banished for a thousand years is the kind of thing I expect from ancient tales about immortal beings, so I don't know if it was really that bad. I mean, Nightmare Moon was "possessed by Sauron's one ring," level evil, and it took him 3000 years to return after being defeated.

I think the other pony's references to being banished to the Everfree Forest might also be sort of a Jean-Paul Sartre's "No Exit," style over-reacting.

[kamerad]

i see her as kind of a benevolent but fantastically misguided dictator; managing the weather, animals, sun and moon rising etc basically the whole world is one big five year plan

world needs order i am the only intelligent one etc

nopony really thinks they're evil and if they do then they're just being silly (i.e. stupid evil) and this is usually where celestia is a tyrant stories fall short

(p.s. if you follow that myers-briggs chart for ponies then i = celestia, and i have no doubt i would be this sort of ruler if i had never gone to the dark side)

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Mmmm, I got Celestia too.

[janglehooves]

In a large portion of the fanart and fanfics I've read for MLP FiM (I admit I haven't seen/read them all) there seems to be a trend to view Princess Celestia as a 'tyrant' or as a ruler 'with an iron fisthoof'.

Well that's because she is a tyrannical dictator, though I must say she's my kind of tyrannical dictator...

Seriously though, I really like Celestia, I see her more as an interested observer with a wry sense of humour who gets a genuine kick out of the adventures of her subjects. I don't think she's enough of a control freak to directly intervene very often, she seems to take the line of allowing others learn for themselves (very much evident in her relationship with Twilight) but she's there if she is needed. The Luna banishment does come across as being somewhat extreme but if you've got two entities who literally have the sort of power that can control night and day squaring up, then you've got the potential for some serious destruction. In that sort of situation, you can't afford to mess around...

[SonicBoom01]

At the end of the 2nd episode, Twilight stays in Ponyville because she wants to stay with her 5 new friends, and Celestia is there to give her permission to stay, thus acknowledging that Twilight has 5 friends, their group making a total of 7 including the mane 6 and Spike. Next episode she gives Twilight 2 tickets to the Grand Galloping Gala, even though in the previous episode, Celestia saw that Twilight had 5 friends. Thus, Celestia is trolling.

I always interpretted her trolling as less of "Let's be a tyrant level," I see it more as "Hey, I'm the ruler of everything, so let's see how much I can mess with my subjects/how much I can get away with."

[MyLittlePonyTales]

At the end of the 2nd episode, Twilight stays in Ponyville because she wants to stay with her 5 new friends, and Celestia is there to give her permission to stay, thus acknowledging that Twilight has 5 friends, their group making a total of 7 including the mane 6 and Spike. Next episode she gives Twilight 2 tickets to the Grand Galloping Gala, even though in the previous episode, Celestia saw that Twilight had 5 friends. Thus, Celestia is trolling.

I always interpretted her trolling as less of "Let's be a tyrant level," I see it more as "Hey, I'm the ruler of everything, so let's see how much I can mess with my subjects/how much I can get away with."

[BlindJester]

I've never seen Princess Celestia as a tyrant. She banished her sister 1000 years, and? Luna turned NightMare Moon went beserk and action was taken not one everypony likes but we can call it time out corner. As to SonicBoom's statement Princess Celestia probably didn't know all of twilight's friends wanted to go and sent two all in all Twilight should of really asked Celestia in the first place seeing as they are very close. Also the Best Night Episode where everypony says she invited them just to ruin the party when I see it as the Princess wanted more excitement during one of the 'best parties of the year' and Twi and her friends are a great choice since they are so excentric. The list goes on as to what she does and what other bronies think of or over thinks of what it means. It depends on what you think of it. I see Princess Celestia as a caring guardian and benevolent ruler but I usually don't agree with most of the fanbase/fanon so its really up to you.

/rant mode off

Sent from my EVO Shift using Tapatalk

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

First off, I have to point out the fact that "Tyrant," refers to a leader who seized power illegally. I don't see any indication that Celestia is an illegitimate ruler. Granted, most rulers who come to power illegally use extremely cruel tactics, but its affirming the consequent to assume that extremely cruel tactics mean a tyrant.

As for the two tickets, usually when someone is invited to an event with a guest, that means they are expecting said person to bring their significant other. Besides, Twilight could have probably just said "I'd rather go with my friends than a date, can you send me a few more tickets?"

[BlindJester]

hi hi

First off, I have to point out the fact that "Tyrant," refers to a leader who seized power illegally. I don't see any indication that Celestia is an illegitimate ruler. Granted, most rulers who come to power illegally use extremely cruel tactics, but its affirming the consequent to assume that extremely cruel tactics mean a tyrant.

As for the two tickets, usually when someone is invited to an event with a guest, that means they are expecting said person to bring their significant other. Besides, Twilight could have probably just said "I'd rather go with my friends than a date, can you send me a few more tickets?"

That's exactly what I said! In less words!

-cuddles Mint- You complete me :heart: -jokes-

[brianblackberry]

Fellow ponies, I have a serious question.

In a large portion of the fanart and fanfics I've read for MLP FiM (I admit I haven't seen/read them all) there seems to be a trend to view Princess Celestia as a 'tyrant' or as a ruler 'with an iron fisthoof'. There's even a comic series I saw that has Twilight Sparkle and her friends acting as 'underground agents' to overthrow Celestia's brutal regime!

Anypony have any idea why this is happening?

Part of it is the fandom just having fun with the idea in a non-serious way, and it should be viewed as simply satire for lols. One of the reasons could be is the concept of an absolute, and possibly immortal, monarch she represents even if that wasn't the intent. No manner how nice and benevolent she may be she is still an absolute ruler and that is always going to rub some the wrong way, and they express that with satirical humor or even serious story; this is especially true given the plurality of the show's fans live in a representative republic with a history of anti-monarchism. Really though Celestia is usually just a plot device for twilight to expose the "lesson in friendship" to the audience, Celestia is also meant to be the stereotypical mentor figure. When the stories weer written, the writers probably didn't think in the terms that, for example, Celestia gave Twi two tickets with some ulterior motive knowing she had five friends, it was just a plot device designed for the moral of that story, but fandom picks up on stuff like that and runs with it.

[Mojo]

WOW! Lots of interesting debate going on here!

First of all, on the question of Nightmare Moon's banishment, it seems that both she and her sister are near god-like in power and stature. Threatening to keep Equestria in 'eternal night forever' counts as a serious crisis to me. Without the sun for a prolonged period of time, agriculture could not grow and the entire land would become colder and colder. Kinda think that would end up possibly killing all life, INCLUDING every pony (who would either end up starving or freezing to death). When you think of Nightmare Moon's FIRST rebellion against Equestria in THOSE terms, Princess Celestia had every right to stop her sister by banishment for 1000 years. Secondly, to be fair, as soon as Nightmare Moon got freed, SHE somehow 'banished' Celestia (though the details aren't all that clear from that episode) and Celestia would've STAYED that way had it not been for Twilight Sparkle's efforts. Third (and I think this an important point to make) after her defeat and transformation back to Princess Luna, she APOLOGIZED to her sister and ACCEPTED her offer of friendship. This indicates that Luna KNEW she was in the wrong, otherwise, why the apology?

Now, to imply that Princess Celestia was out to 'ruin' Twilight Sparkle's life by offering two Grand Galloping Gala tickets to her is, in my opinion, wrong. If that were true, then why did she (a) send seven tickets when Twilight pointed out the problem to her and ( at the end of the GGG says that she was 'delighted' Twilight's friends could come to help 'liven' things up there? Also, if Celestia WAS truly mean and cruel, why didn't she imprision Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy for trashing the palace? Of course, on the other hoof, why wasn't Princess Luna at the GGG with her older sister?

Also, as for Twilight's comments in "A Bird In Hoof" about Celestia 'banishing ponies' and 'locking ponies up in dungeons, she was obviously FREAKING OUT over Fillamena and didn't know what she was saying. We've witnessed this sort of behavior from her before in "Swarm of the Century" after the parasprites started destroying Ponyville. Haven't we all had bad situations where we 'feared the worst' before?

To be perfectly honest, I'm just not buying the 'Celestia is evil' argument. I'm CERTAIN that in Season 2, we're NOT going to see Celestia and Luna fighting for control of Equestria in a epic battle that will rival the big fight scene from the Lord of the Rings movie. THIS IS A CHILDREN'S SHOW! Sure it is a 'guilty pleasure' for adults, but at it's heart, MLP FiM is a cartoon designed for the preteen girl demographic. I'd have a hard time believing the writers of the show would go DARK SIDE on us.

Of course, all this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree!

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Aww BlindJester, I'm just trying to see the best in everypony. I dunno if thats anything special.

I think part of it is that I work at a newspaper, and after seeing all kinds of things that are going on in the wide world IRL every day, its really hard for me to see the stuff Celestia does being anywhere in the same ballpark as bad. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the writers intentionally try to give Celestia imperfections, just from a believability standpoint.

In the opening history lesson in episode one, we learn that Luna and Celestia's balance of night and day "created harmony for all the land." That kind of implies to me that perhaps there wasn't harmony for everypony before the two regal sisters showed up, but other than that we don't really know much about any other alternative form of government there might have been. For all we know, there could be a rule in Equestria law where everypony can make a vote of no confidence if they're unsatisfied with their rulers. (and that Celestia is just so awesome that nopony ever bothered)

[kamerad]

or there was never any government to start with

:nock:

[GoldenDelicious]

I think Trollestia is an attempt to give Celestia some flaws. Everyone in the show has their own faults yet Celestia appears like this pristine deity with a bit of a trickster streak. I think to generate some faults the community have decided that these 'troll' elements are part of a deeper more sinister motive. I personally disagree - still think she's good but old enough to know how to have some fun.

[BlackFang]

how many times i've seen threads with this topic already?

[BlindJester]

how many times i've seen threads with this topic already?

1 to many?

It is a hot topic though so I understand x3

[Escrime]

Anypony have any idea why this is happening?

I'd like to be able to claim to be the source of the whole Tyrant Celestia view... but somehow I doubt my one off the cuff remark on the MLP Arena just after the first episode actually filtered far enough to get it started (no doubt, it instead formed in parralel several times...).

But anyway, to answer the question. Mainly because some of us enjoy twisting the world into other forms for the fun of it. Also, we've been given two examples of Celestia being able to behave bit harsher than the goody-four-shoes one would at first assume her to be:

1. Her behaviour with regards to Nightmare Moon hints that Celestia can and does resort to harsher measures. Of cause, this is probably only when utterly required... but that won't stop the fandom playing with the idea.

2. The whole damn Pheonix problem... I mean, Twilight was worried about getting banished, and as the Princess's loyal minion student she's in a position to know if there's any even slight chance of it happening.

Then of cause, there's other "hints"... Why would she need all those flashily dressed guards if there hasn't been a serious threat of conflict in Equestria since Luna first went nuts? Unless Celestia does actually need them to keep dissent under her hoof.

And of cause, power corrupts... and Celestia has a good approximation to absolute power.

All in al, yeah, it's insane and you need to push like mad to make it fit witht eh show... but still, a lot of us find the resulting scenarios kinda entertaining...