The great 'Alicorn' debate

[Imagination]

I think one of the most common (and often most heated and most annoying) debates I see among bronies outside of Canterlot.com is the use of the word 'Alicorn'.

Now Alicorn has three simplified definitions:

1. A winged Unicorn

2. A unicorn's horn

3. The substance of a unicorn's horn

Due to the presence of Alicorns in FiM, people have been associating the word most with the first definition. However, old-time tabletop and DnD players and such are arguing that it is, and always will be, definitions 2 and 3.

My personal opinion?

(Presented with an 'Alicorn' for added lulz)

I just think people are complaining for the sake of complaining. It doesn't really matter, but there are those who tend to differ. Believe it or not, I've seen HUGE flamewars and arguments over chats about this, so I figure I may as well post the be-all-end-all of brony debates and get to the bottom of this tom foolery.

What do you all think? Do your thing.

[flutterscotch]

This is always been a MLP debate, actually, since the dawn of MLP forums. Mostly in the context before Celestia of "Why are there no Alicorns in MLP". You'd always have someone pipe up and spout the technical "it's the horn".

You can blame Piers Anthony, I'm fairly sure. 80's fantasy author + 80's fantasy toys+ nerdy girls....I know he used it meaning unicorn with wings a bunch of times.

[Imagination]

Interesting!

I'm new to MLP as a whole, so it's nice to have a history lesson. Though in truth, knowing it's been an issue for awhile just makes me wish it was over sooner XD

[DalkrinTheWanderer]

it's a debate that will likely rage for all eternity, much akin to the "best pony" debates or "RD=/=Lesbian".

[SirShadowdeath]

it's a debate that will likely rage for all eternity, much akin to the "best pony" debates or "RD=/=Lesbian".

[DalkrinTheWanderer]

Ye Gods! I'm sorry!

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

So let me get this straight. You've started a topic about a frequently heated and divisive topic because you want people to argue about it less?

[Imagination]

hi hi

So let me get this straight. You've started a topic about a frequently heated and divisive topic because you want people to argue about it less?

False!

Well... half false.

I'm all for a good debate. I think the entire issue is pointless and, frankly, irritating to read/listen to when it becomes a heated argument .

BUTT

That doesn't mean I don't value everyone's two-cents on the matter itself.

[Dessa]

You can blame Piers Anthony, I'm fairly sure. 80's fantasy author + 80's fantasy toys+ nerdy girls....I know he used it meaning unicorn with wings a bunch of times.

I haven't heard that name in a very long time. Were you a fan too?

[Lux]

Initially the word Alicorn described the horn. Canon wise they never said what race Celestia or Luna were. Fanon wise they called them Alicorns and the name stuck.

To quote Shakespeare: "What's in a name?'

[flutterscotch]

I haven't heard that name in a very long time. Were you a fan too?

Hmmm, let's see....

Geek girl. Check.

Likes fantasy books and movies. Check.

Completely horrible sense of humor that involved finding Fozzie Bear hilarious? Check.

Was a kid in the 80's...Check.

Of course I was, silly, until I became "too cool" for horrible puns (when I was like 14 or 15) I am actually re-reading A spell for Chameleon and trying to get back into it at the moment (which is why the usage is kind of on my mind).

BREAD AND BUTTERFLIES!

[SirShadowdeath]

Initially the word Alicorn described the horn. Canon wise they never said what race Celestia or Luna were. Fanon wise they called them Alicorns and the name stuck.

To quote Shakespeare: "What's in a name?'

Alicorn is not a name originating from fanon specifically. It originates from mythological stories and legends about winged unicorns. Similiar names include "Unisus" which Has more obvious meaning. Other names include Unipeg, and Pegacorn. The word itself, alicorn, originates from the 1984 novel "Bearing an Hourglass" by Piers Anthony. Since Celesitia and Luna both have the features of unicorns and pegasi, they are referred to as Alicorns because that is the correct mythological term for them. In fact, the term in used in many shows, like She-Ra. While the term given to them is given BY fanon, it does not originate FROM fanon.

[ChancellorPuddinghead]

hi hi

So let me get this straight. You've started a topic about a frequently heated and divisive topic because you want people to argue about it less?

Wait let me get this straight - you used the word straight and a cute little RD in the same sentence? *looks* oh yes you did - carry on then

I prefer to use the word Alicorn - didn't know Piers Anthony coined it - Xanth I'm guessing?

hmm that term is now 20% cooler for me

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Oh, well then... I guess anyone is welcome to call them whatever they want, but personally I don't think I'll ever use the term alicorn myself to describe a winged unicorn. In my book, it is the material of the unicorn's horn, and calling a winged unicorn an alicorn would be like calling a winged elephant an ivory.

Corollary to this is the way the term alicorn is frequently applied in the fandom that makes it particularly distasteful to me. I've seen lots of cases where its used to refer to some ancient master race of über-kleinespferde that always strikes me as a little bit too similar to the late 1800s, early 1900s philosophies of the likes of Count Joseph Arthur De Gobineau and William J. Grayson. So its really not something I feel like using myself, but its nothing personal.

[SirShadowdeath]

Wait let me get this straight - you used the word straight and a cute little RD in the same sentence? *looks* oh yes you did - carry on then

I prefer to use the word Alicorn - didn't know Piers Anthony coined it - Xanth I'm guessing?

hmm that term is now 20% cooler for me

straight and a cute little RD

[flutterscotch]

Wait let me get this straight - you used the word straight and a cute little RD in the same sentence? *looks* oh yes you did - carry on then

I prefer to use the word Alicorn - didn't know Piers Anthony coined it - Xanth I'm guessing?

hmm that term is now 20% cooler for me

No, I saw it in one of the non-Xanth books (which are not nearly as fun, its the series that reminds me of the show about the grim reapers.). I didn't know he COINED it though, I just know he used it.

[ZaneTheRoboteon]

From TV Tropes page on "Winged Unicorn":

Occasionally winged unicorns are referred to as alicorns, which is a portmanteau of the French words for wing (aile) and horn (corne). Note that in French, the word for unicorn is also licorne. However, be careful with this usage because the word alicorn also refers to the horn of a unicorn itself, a li translating to "secured" (so a li corne meaning "secured horn").

They are also sometimes referred to as "Unipegs" or "Pegacorns"

[Dessa]

Hmmm, let's see....

Geek girl. Check.

Likes fantasy books and movies. Check.

Completely horrible sense of humor that involved finding Fozzie Bear hilarious? Check.

Was a kid in the 80's...Check.

Of course I was, silly, until I became "too cool" for horrible puns (when I was like 14 or 15) I am actually re-reading A spell for Chameleon and trying to get back into it at the moment (which is why the usage is kind of on my mind).

BREAD AND BUTTERFLIES!

I didn't realize this was a geek girl thing. Certainly none of the boys that comprised (almost) all of my friends, including the geeks, knew anything about it.

But I tell ya, man, I read deep into Xanth, and all of Incarnations of Immortality (nope, just went to his wikipedia page, and he recently wrote an eighth book for that). And or COURSE I saw the Total Recall movie (who didn't?).

[Dessa]

Oh, and on topic

Unipegacorns.

Corniunissuses.

Pegcorniusses.

Puengiacsoursns.

I'm partial to Corniunissuses.

And then conidering that Celestia is one third earth pony as well, maybe

Pegearthicorn

Unearthisus

Alisearths.

Earthnises.

[Rosewind]

hi hi

So let me get this straight. You've started a topic about a frequently heated and divisive topic because you want people to argue about it less?

Nice one, Ginger!

I have to agree with Shadowdeath too -- if it's the correct mythological term for what it is, that's what it is. I suppose some people could argue that "wyrm" is a better term for "dragon," but we know dragons are referred to as dragons in FiM canon/lore (probably for the sake of simplicity, and most kids watching it might not have any idea what a wyrm is).

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I do seem to recall the show referring to them as "Princesses," on occasion.

[flutterscotch]

Watching the 1985 movie Legend. They use alicorn referring to the horn.

[Fallenfox13]

Nice one, Ginger!

I have to agree with Shadowdeath too -- if it's the correct mythological term for what it is, that's what it is. I suppose some people could argue that "wyrm" is a better term for "dragon," but we know dragons are referred to as dragons in FiM canon/lore (probably for the sake of simplicity, and most kids watching it might not have any idea what a wyrm is).

Wouldn't that still be a different kind of dragon though? I thought a Wyrm was a dragon with forewings? Don't know the terminology, but akin to the wings a bat and only had the hind legs of a dragon?

http://www.ravenmedium.com/bluedrag4.jpg

And if this is the case, wouldn't this take us back to the original issue of what an Alicorn actually is? Honestly, I'm confused about the whole thing...

[Boss_Hoss1]

My species name assignment system since Online RPs in '97 was Unipeg and Pegacorn - the first half of the word depending on who the sire was.

Since the assumption is the princesses family have always been a seperate type combining all three pony types, I'm going with the fan flow on "Alicorn" for them.