Linkhopper Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Because Celestia has had a track record of the longest era of peace in known history, for 1000 years she's ruled Equestria, she might've made mistakes but she's a better ruler than Luna who tried to rebel, got corrupted and defeated and banished to the moon for trying to plunge the world into eternal darkness.If Luna and the NLR was in charge they'd become power mad and Nightmare Moon would return and then Equestria would be doomed to eternal darkness and Civil war.Basically the Solar Empire is the current ideal leadership.Point taken. I still have absolutely no idea who to side with though n_nU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaArkwing Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Point taken. I still have absolutely no idea who to side with though n_nULogically speaking, the Solar Empire is the most ideal, but if you're a die hard Luna supporter then NLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Logically speaking, the Solar Empire is the most ideal, but if you're a die hard Luna supporter then NLR.I will flip a coin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valencetiger Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Bah, do not listen to that Solar Imperial propaganda. You should make your choice on the facts of the matter...like a truly logical pony.Why the Solar Empire: Due to its government being already in place, it would not require the time and preparation it takes to make a fully functioning political system. Also, Celestia has far greater experience when it comes to rulling than Luna, and Equestria has been in a state of peace (if you can consider the attacks from the Changelings and Discord peaceful). Why the New Lunar Republic: Their system would be based on the strength of every pony, not just one or a set group. The NLR would seek to set up a more interactive government, one whose concern is for the ponies. Luna herself is stronger than Celestia, and would act as a better protector of the realm.Why not the Solar Empire: It has displayed incompetence in the past, and many ponies have little say in what they wish to do. The entire political structure is centered on one pony, so all laws and commands come from Celestia. Why not the New Lunar Republic: If the NLR were to win, it could take them many years to restore order to Equestria...if they ever can. Due to the freedom of speech and choice it would create, there would no doubt be tension from the many sides that could exist. Thus, they would be slow to act and pass laws because they would need a large consensus, instead of simply having one pony decide what to do.I hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Bah, do not listen to that Solar Imperial propaganda. You should make your choice on the facts of the matter...like a truly logical pony.Why the Solar Empire: Due to its government being already in place, it would not require the time and preparation it takes to make a fully functioning political system. Also, Celestia has far greater experience when it comes to rulling than Luna, and Equestria has been in a state of peace (if you can consider the attacks from the Changelings and Discord peaceful).Why the New Lunar Republic: Their system would be based on the strength of every pony, not just one or a set group. The NLR would seek to set up a more interactive government, one whose concern is for the ponies. Luna herself is stronger than Celestia, and would act as a better protector of the realm.Why not the Solar Empire: It has displayed incompetence in the past, and many ponies have little say in what they wish to do. The entire political structure is centered on one pony, so all laws and commands come from Celestia.Why not the New Lunar Republic: If the NLR were to win, it could take them many years to restore order to Equestria...if they ever can. Due to the freedom of speech and choice it would create, there would no doubt be tension from the many sides that could exist. Thus, they would be slow to act and pass laws because they would need a large consensus, instead of simply having one pony decide what to do.I hope that helps The coin landed on Solar Empire, but suddenly after your posted it flew up and flipped sides! NLR it is then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingChrysalis Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Because Celestia has had a track record of the longest era of peace in known history, for 1000 years she's ruled Equestria, she might've made mistakes but she's a better ruler than Luna who tried to rebel, got corrupted and defeated and banished to the moon for trying to plunge the world into eternal darkness.If Luna and the NLR was in charge they'd become power mad and Nightmare Moon would return and then Equestria would be doomed to eternal darkness and Civil war.Basically the Solar Empire is the current ideal leadership.^^^See Canterlot citizens, this guy has it right.The ultimate goal of a monarchy is to achieve peace and prosperity throughout the kingdom, which is exactly what Celestia has done.Why fix what isn't broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 ^^^See Canterlot citizens, this guy has it right.The ultimate goal of a monarchy is to achieve peace and prosperity throughout the kingdom, which is exactly what Celestia has done.Why fix what isn't broken?Now the coin just doesn't care and is splitting and half and doing broadway musicals..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valencetiger Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 ^^^See Canterlot citizens, this guy has it right.The ultimate goal of a monarchy is to achieve peace and prosperity throughout the kingdom, which is exactly what Celestia has done.Why fix what isn't broken?Well, you have an excellent point...but sometimes things may appear fine on the outside, but what about the inside? The peace WILL end eventually, it always does. At this point I support neither side...but just for argument's sake, what will happen when blood finally is shed? Will the Solar Empire be able to cope with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemplarFrost Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Bah, do not listen to that Solar Imperial propaganda. You should make your choice on the facts of the matter...like a truly logical pony.Why the Solar Empire: Due to its government being already in place, it would not require the time and preparation it takes to make a fully functioning political system. Also, Celestia has far greater experience when it comes to rulling than Luna, and Equestria has been in a state of peace (if you can consider the attacks from the Changelings and Discord peaceful).Why the New Lunar Republic: Their system would be based on the strength of every pony, not just one or a set group. The NLR would seek to set up a more interactive government, one whose concern is for the ponies. Luna herself is stronger than Celestia, and would act as a better protector of the realm.Why not the Solar Empire: It has displayed incompetence in the past, and many ponies have little say in what they wish to do. The entire political structure is centered on one pony, so all laws and commands come from Celestia.Why not the New Lunar Republic: If the NLR were to win, it could take them many years to restore order to Equestria...if they ever can. Due to the freedom of speech and choice it would create, there would no doubt be tension from the many sides that could exist. Thus, they would be slow to act and pass laws because they would need a large consensus, instead of simply having one pony decide what to do.I hope that helps The coin landed on Solar Empire, but suddenly after your posted it flew up and flipped sides! NLR it is then!No. Just. No.I see where you are going at. You are seeing Princess Celestia as a monarchy. And you dislike that, you prefer a republic instead, yes? Well, I say no. The Principality of Equestria is a monarchy, but it's a good one. She rules just, and fairly. I admit that she makes mistakes at times, but clearly they are unimportant, as Equestria is still in it's divine, peaceful state. I admit, in the long run, a republic is better idea than a monarchy, but it's not set in stone. My point is, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I mean, look at Equestria! It is in a perfect state of peace and harmony. Why change the government, when everything is perfect? That's absurd. So what if all the laws come from one pony? That's not necessarily bad. I know some absolute monarchies from history that worked out much better then republics. If anything, forcing a republic on an existing monarchy will most likely end in disaster. *cough*FrenchRevolution*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 No. Just. No.I see where you are going at. You are seeing Princess Celestia as a monarchy. And you dislike that, you prefer a republic instead, yes? Well, I say no. The Principality of Equestria is a monarchy, but it's a good one. She rules just, and fairly. I admit that she makes mistakes at times, but clearly they are unimportant, as Equestria is still in it's divine, peaceful state. I admit, in the long run, a republic is better idea than a monarchy, but it's not set in stone.My point is, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I mean, look at Equestria! It is in a perfect state of peace and harmony. Why change the government, when everything is perfect? That's absurd. So what if all the laws come from one pony? That's not necessarily bad. I know some absolute monarchies from history that worked out much better then republics. If anything, forcing a republic on an existing monarchy will most likely end in disaster. *cough*FrenchRevolution*cough*"Now the coin just doesn't care and is splitting and half and doing broadway musicals....."Im still undecided I have to agree with your point though, but the NLR does post some pretty valid points. Yours seems like common sense. I just dont know what to think anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valencetiger Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Lol, Templar, it seems you only saw the cons I listed against the Solar Empire, not the benefits that the SE provides, nor the weaknesses of the NLR. I already know that, and I have addressed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 I admire you all. You take this debate professionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemplarFrost Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Lol, Templar, it seems you only saw the cons I listed against the Solar Empire, not the benefits that the SE provides, nor the weaknesses of the NLR. I already know that, and I have addressed that.I wasn't listing any pros and cons. I was just saying how Republics aren't always better than Kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 I wasn't listing any pros and cons. I was just saying how Republics aren't always better than Kingdoms.That statement goes both ways friend. However, in current society, Republics are generally preferred due to inclusion rather than exclusion. Even England has a devolutional constitutional monarchy with a Parliament. So the power isn't entirely with the monarchy. The monarchies of current are not generally well received because of lack of regard for certain minorities in most cases. Granted that is likely NOT the case with Equestria but it is possible, as we don't know how the other sentient creatures are treated. However, even dictators can rule over republics. Take Josip Broz Tito of the Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia for instance. It still had a dictator, a prime minister and a legislative body (similar to a constitutional monarchy, but without the lineage decision like in England (in other words the presidential dictator is elected ideally rather than seizing power)). So in the end it is all preference. I prefer the idea of republics as opposed to true monarchies where only one person or a small group of people hold all the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valencetiger Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 I wasn't listing any pros and cons. I was just saying how Republics aren't always better than Kingdoms.Normally you would be correct...but there is a reason why we don't have many monarchies left in the real world...it is because we have grown past them. Republics and democracies are the present and possible future, and in complete honesty I believe Equestria is at a point where they are intellectually capable of making a republic work, and work spectacularly.Also, on an unrelated note...considering how Equestria is a principality, why have we called Celestia's side the Solar Empire...? If anything, it is incorrectly named, for Celestia is a "Princess". If it were a legit Empire, we'd be calling her "Empress Celestia", yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Normally you would be correct...but there is a reason why we don't have many monarchies left in the real world...it is because we have grown past them. Republics and democracies are the present and possible future, and in complete honesty I believe Equestria is at a point where they are intellectually capable of making a republic work, and work spectacularly.Also, on an unrelated note...considering how Equestria is a principality, why have we called Celestia's side the Solar Empire...? If anything, it is incorrectly named, for Celestia is a "Princess". If it were a legit Empire, we'd be calling her "Empress Celestia", yes?Technically yes. It is a principality. However, empires don't have to be ruled by emperors. Take the Holy Roman Empire and the British Empire for instance. So the principality of Equestria can still be named as such. ....Besides... Solar Empire sounds cooler than the Principality of Equestira. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Technically yes. It is a principality. However, empires don't have to be ruled by emperors. Take the Holy Roman Empire and the British Empire for instance. So the principality of Equestria can still be named as such.....Besides... Solar Empire sounds cooler than the Principality of Equestira.Wait so whos side are you on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Wait so whos side are you on?Luna! Long live the Republic!I was just stating that you don't need an emperor to be an empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Luna! Long live the Republic!I was just stating that you don't need an emperor to be an empire.What is celestia doing wrong? Im curious as to know why the NLR fans want to take down The Solar Empire so. Whats wrong with how equestria is today, it seems ponies are happy. So just why is it that luna should rule over all?(undecided) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 What is celestia doing wrong? Im curious as to know why the NLR fans want to take down The Solar Empire so. Whats wrong with how equestria is today, it seems ponies are happy. So just why is it that luna should rule over all?(undecided)Because you used the word "pony." Clearly there are other sentient races that are not represented in Equestria. A republic might aid in fixing this. The other sentient creatures deserve a voice too! Did you see how AJ treats her sheep? All they want to do is be ASKED to move! And that is perfectly fine and permitted under Celestia's rule?! Well my friend! I do not think that is alright! NLR would mean freedom for all sentient creatures! Clearly donkeys and mules are underrepresented as well! What about Griffons and Zebra? Are they put to the wayside? What is their say? Why was Zecora shunned in Ponyville? Why didn't Celestia step in and explain to the pony folk that a zebra was not to be feared but accepted and treated with respect. SHE COULDN'T EVEN ENTER A SHOP! That is worse than the Jim Crowe Laws! Celestia claims that only pony folk suffered under Discord, and she acted to save them! What of the other sentient beings in Equestria? Are they not worth saving?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkhopper Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Because you used the word "pony." Clearly there are other sentient races that are not represented in Equestria. A republic might aid in fixing this. The other sentient creatures deserve a voice too!Did you see how AJ treats her sheep? All they want to do is be ASKED to move! And that is perfectly fine and permitted under Celestia's rule?! Well my friend! I do not think that is alright! NLR would mean freedom for all sentient creatures! Clearly donkeys and mules are underrepresented as well! What about Griffons and Zebra? Are they put to the wayside? What is their say? Why was Zecora shunned in Ponyville? Why didn't Celestia step in and explain to the pony folk that a zebra was not to be feared but accepted and treated with respect. SHE COULDN'T EVEN ENTER A SHOP! That is worse than the Jim Crowe Laws! Celestia claims that only pony folk suffered under Discord, and she acted to save them! What of the other sentient beings in Equestria? Are they not worth saving?!I have no choice but to agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemplarFrost Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Because you used the word "pony." Clearly there are other sentient races that are not represented in Equestria. A republic might aid in fixing this. The other sentient creatures deserve a voice too!Did you see how AJ treats her sheep? All they want to do is be ASKED to move! And that is perfectly fine and permitted under Celestia's rule?! Well my friend! I do not think that is alright! NLR would mean freedom for all sentient creatures! Clearly donkeys and mules are underrepresented as well! What about Griffons and Zebra? Are they put to the wayside? What is their say? Why was Zecora shunned in Ponyville? Why didn't Celestia step in and explain to the pony folk that a zebra was not to be feared but accepted and treated with respect. SHE COULDN'T EVEN ENTER A SHOP! That is worse than the Jim Crowe Laws! Celestia claims that only pony folk suffered under Discord, and she acted to save them! What of the other sentient beings in Equestria? Are they not worth saving?!Well, the thing is, the other intelligent sentient beings have their own empires, kingdoms, and republics of their own. You see, Equestria is only a part of a really big world of diverse, intelligent creatures. Celestia did say that only pony folk suffered under Discord, because most likely, only pony folk did.Another thing, we've only seen 3 mules, 1 zebra, and 2 griffons in the entire show alone. What is your proof that they are shunned and not accepted in Equestria? They are very well not! Take Cranky Doodle Donkey for instance, Pinkie Pie literally went out of her way in order to make friends with him. And Rainbow Dash was best friends with Gilda the Griffon.And Zecora being worse then the Jim Crowe laws?First of all, being black and all, I could tell you right now that it is most definitely not. The pony folk in Equestria shunned Zecora, because they simply didn't know who she was, or where she came from. The white folk in America knew who the Africans were, or where they came from, but shunned them anyways, because they thought that they were better than black people. That is extremely different. In fact, once the ponies knew who she was, they completely warmed up to her. Unlike in America, where it took nearly a war, plus two assassinations to get African-American civil rights that we deserved.So please, don't make horrible IRL-pony references like that again, it's only making you look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaArkwing Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 So agree to disagree, Equestria now gets turned into England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalEcplise Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 What is celestia doing wrong? Im curious as to know why the NLR fans want to take down The Solar Empire so. Whats wrong with how equestria is today, it seems ponies are happy. So just why is it that luna should rule over all?(undecided)Honestly Celestia does a good job whenever there isnt a crisis. Perhaps everything doesn't need to change, but somethings do: The military definitely needs better training... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 So please, don't make horrible IRL-pony references like that again, it's only making you look bad. Wow... You have got to stop taking everything I say so seriously... Besides, I was talking merely situational with shops in general, not the entirety of the sociopolitical atmosphere surrounding the Jim Crowe laws. That would be silly to do in a seemingly perfect society.But seriously, if the tone of my writing is like I'm standing on a soap box like what you quoted, assume I'm betting facetious to make a fun argument. SO! To respond to everything else...And yes, clearly sheep have their own kingdom and are still treated like trash in Equestria. Cows are seemingly treated with more respect. Why the difference? But even with that difference they don't seem to be on the same level as ponies. Cows are closer since as I recall we at least saw one going to Sugar Cube Corner. As for Discord? You know he changed the whole of reality. When he returned he affected everything, including the Buffalo. So to assume it was only the pony folk would be just plain wrong according to how we saw him create chaos in the world. Speaking of Buffalo, why didn't the Princess send a mediator to try and solve the problem between the two sides? Yes they have their own nomadic society within Equestria and their own ruling system, however the fact that there was clear conflict and nothing was done until the Mane 6 got there, shows that they have no say with ponyfolk. In fact, it was because of the Mane 6 that the conflict rose. And it eventually lead to battle which could have lead to the leveling of Appleoosa. Had it not been for the deliciousness of apple pies, it would have likely turned out like that. Not represented? Certainly not. They could use a representative to speak their needs to a council. Though I said this, I chose random races... I was being facetious... However we don't actually know how many are in Equestria. There is no indication of a mule or donkey society either anywhere in the world as far as it has been indicated. Griffons we know do, dragons we know do, zebras we can assume do since it was mentioned that they come from a far away land... The others have been given no indication of such treatment.As for it turning into England, that would be a Constitutional Monarchy. Technically if Luna seized power and turned it into a Republic it would be such a society and be a Constitutional Monarchy, unless Luna is elected as the president [for life?] of the republic, it would still be a Constitutional Monarchy. However that would still come with a Parliament or other Legislative body and a Prime Minister, which means that NLR still wins, even if Luna is not in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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