Starfox64x Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 Okay, so just about every brony it seems is comparing the Vanessa's song from the little mermaid to the scene of evil cadence singing in her room. And although it's similar, it's not an homage or anything... And yet i'm seeing these comparisons everywhere...(spoiler for images)It's like saying Tomb Raider is an homage to Super Mario 64, they're both games, both are platformers, but they're not even that closely related...Okay, so they both have a person pretending to be someone else in order to marry a prince, but this is not something that is brand new. it's easily a trope on it's own. Shrek did the same thing but with an evil prince pretending to be Shrek to marry the princess... not to mention The Princess and the frog, and frankly i'm sure it's been done a billion times in lesser known cartoons and shows, so i think it's overdone in general to simply say that The little mermaid is the only possible thing this could've been based off of."but Ian! They're both singing about their evil plans in a mirror! That's gotta be something!"Okay, well let's see, what do most brides do before a wedding? They stay in their rooms and get ready, including makeup, which requires a mirror to do. and it's tradition for the groom to not see the bride until the wedding and most everyone else too, so they would be alone. So what would an predictably evil person do in that situation? Talk about their evil plans! and if you've got a musical, Why not sing it instead?As for the (brief) bit in the mirror... What are they going to use their animation fund on during a song bit? no one else is around, so why not have a bit in the mirror to add some interesting scenes? Plus, in the mermaid, the mirror shows Ursala her true self, in MLP, it does not, it just shows how she looks....speaking of the song, MLP's song is a SONG, Vanessa's song is... barely that... it's like 4 lines long, it's a stanza sung to a little tune, not even a full fledged SONG. If you tried to sing that at american idol you'd get kicked off stage for wasting people's time.Yeah, sure, they both show a little violence toward items in the room... but they're evil? Why wouldn't they?So yeah, i just find it annoying when people freak out about "OMG It's just like THIS" when it's clearly just a trope or at least coincidence at best... Here's another point, if i knew nothing about the show, and you showed me the mane six and said they were just like the power rangers, i would say you're silly. a handful of young individuals who are all color coordinated, that's just coincidence, there's nothing relating the two together... HOWEVER, you show me them using the elements of harmony to fire a blast of all powerful energy at the enemy while praising the power of togetherness, than you have a point. If show me Celestia, a wise leader who doesnt really have that much screentime but influences the characters as a mentor, Than i could clearly say that was a Zordon. Then you have the goofy assistant who doesnt normally do much and is often used for comedic relief, Spike and Alpha. Not to mentioned Rita and Nightmare moon, "After 1000 years i'm free to conquer earth! >=D " Hell yeah! You got yourself an entire parody made up right there!in fact after thinking about that i actually found the parody... not surprised. So yeah! this has plenty of relatable notes that could easily be connected and make it hilarious and awesome! it may not be an homage, but it's clearly parody-able...As for ACTUAL homages, the season 2 premiere with the award ceremony, that was obviously an homage to Star wars... they were practically in sync with everyone acting the parts exactly, there is no doubt that was an homage. But anyway, the point being, I'm tired of people making the claims that they're EXACTLY ALIKE when it's clearly just one or two tropes that they happen to have in common... It's silly and a bit annoying that people are making such a big deal out of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosewind Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 If they share distinct similarities (and they do), I think it's because it's a nod, not a knock-off.I also think that both the story flow and new villain tied together perfectly. I never once thought "I've seen this story before," even though elements of the plot has been done before elsewhere.People -- especially fans -- will make a big deal out of anything, but that should not invalidate something just because X number of people are making a big deal out of it. Want to come with me to the Canterlot Wedding discussion thread on this forum and count the number of posts/pages talking about FlutterDash? And that's just on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I actually think it is a homage, but not to a specific Disney movie, but to Disney movies and style in general. The entire episode felt like a Disney movie IMO. As far as I know, an homage does not need to mimic the source material 100% to be a homage. It just needs to be identifiable to the source material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosewind Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Remember the ending of Return of Harmony? That was a homage to the ending of Star Wars if I ever saw it...and probably many other films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirShadowdeath Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I find it more of a coincedental referance more than a nodded one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger Mint Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 hi hiThe soliloquy is a narrative device that has been around for ages and ages. Shakespeare is famous for his use of soliloquy, but the practice goes back a lot farther than that. Its a great way to let the audience know the true motivations of a character, especially villains and rogues who would otherwise be suspected of lying if they were actually talking to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox64x Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I actually think it is a homage, but not to a specific Disney movie, but to Disney movies and style in general. The entire episode felt like a Disney movie IMO. As far as I know, an homage does not need to mimic the source material 100% to be a homage. It just needs to be identifiable to the source material.Honestly, i dont think it's an homage to Disney in general either. It's just great animation, great characters, great music, great action and adventure and just in general it's GREAT! It's not mimicking or nodding to Disney and what they did right, it's doing all the things right on it's own...Now, yes, i did think of Disney too, but not because of anything Disney did, it just felt like a really well done story with great music, characters and especially the villain. But do we really have to compare it to them every time they make a move?Maybe i'm being a hipster or something, but just because a show has done something right doesn't mean it got it's inspiration from something else that did it right. Take Braid, a critically acclaimed platformer title, with time bending elements. you could say "Oh so it's like Mario mixed with Prince of Persia!" Basically comparing a great game to two other great games simply because they have a few similar elements. I'm sure that the creators wouldnt mind being compared to two big names like that, but rather than being compared to two other great games why not just say that it's great?Same for this, rather than saying it's an homage or a nod to Disney because it does so much well, why dont we just say "Hey, It's really awesome on it's own", we don't need to compare every episode to something from Disney simply because they both did something good.Admire it for what it is and what they have done, not compare it to something else that someone else has done...Think of it like this, Say you do well on a presentation and your teacher says 'Wow! That was really great! That reminds me of Bob's presentation' Then you do a research paper, "Hey this is really good! Y'know Bob did a research paper on the same subject, Your's is just as good as his!" and as the year goes on your work is constantly compared to his. Sure you know bob, and you know bob is good, but you can't help but think "Could you just praise my work without bringing up Bob?"hi hiThe soliloquy is a narrative device that has been around for ages and ages. Shakespeare is famous for his use of soliloquy, but the practice goes back a lot farther than that. Its a great way to let the audience know the true motivations of a character, especially villains and rogues who would otherwise be suspected of lying if they were actually talking to someone else.Exactly! It's not a new literary element, it's something very common that's been used for ages. it's a trope that has been used forever, it's not a nod to the movie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davroth Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 They would have more of a case if fake Cadence saw her undisguised self in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starswirlthebearded Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 See, that is the thing... There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. Everything has been done essentially in one way or another.If they designed the special to play out like a Disney, then that is what they did. I certainly felt like the entirety of the two episodes played out like that to me. However, just because they did that does not mean it wasn't great in its own right, but for animators to give a nod or homage to Disney its nothing new. Disney gave homage to other works too, like the Lion King and Hamlet. Was it still original? Yes. Nothing detracted from it because of that. And no one says its insignificant because it is a homage to Hamlet.You can make a homage to something while still being original. As I said, I don't think that song was exactly an homage to Disney, but I do feel they did the episode in a similar style, including making a Disney-esque song as homage to Disney (as a part of the overall feel of the episodes). In fact... they have done it before... You know... Barbra Streisand's Putting it Together and The Music Man's Ya Got Trouble. MLP:FiM has a history of making homages to famous media, and I actually like that they do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittlePonyTales Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Meh, I just was reminded of the scene in The Little Mermaid when I saw that scene. It's not just about the mirror, but the tune of the song as well. I guess I wasn't alone in my thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davroth Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yes, I'd agree that the episode felt like one of those golden era Disney movies, skillfully condensed into 40 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoth Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yes, I'd agree that the episode felt like one of those golden era Disney movies, skillfully condensed into 40 minutes.I couldn't agree more. The songs, the tone, the general adventure-like plot perfectly mimics a great Disney movie like The Little Mermaid...(I'm quite partial to "The Great Mouse Detective" however, so I was satisfied with "MMMystery on the Friendship Express" beforehand, xD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittlePonyTales Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 So this is relevant: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunio18 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 that Ursulas laugh makes Evil Cadence so much more eeviiilll ! at 2:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saren Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Homage or not. It still is awesome Whoot, I want more referances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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