S03 E06 - "Sleepless In Ponyville"

[NoGiantRobots1983]

I wonder what Celestia is doing.....

But what in Equestria happened to Sweetie's singing voice?

Two guesses:

1) She was sleepy and not performing as well

2) She was literally drunk or high (perhaps oats are a narcotic?)

so, filly Sweetie Belle can pull Rarity's wagon, but the athletic Scootaloo can't?

IIRC, Sweets had slept, Scoots had not.

Every fanfic I know, depicts Luna making the same work of Celestia of paperwork/gestion, but at night, on the show she apparently enjoys becoming lost in forests, using her EverReady eyes as headlights (LOL) So, is now canon that she basically slacks at her kingdom chores.

Or there simply aren't that many chores to do, or Luna is hyper-fast and just has that much time.

[TotalEcplise]

I personally believe that Celestia got the short end of the stick when it comes to royal responsibilities.

Celestia: "Okay my little ponies, Day Court is open. Please come to your princess with you concerns and I shall lend you my ear!"

Luna: "Night Court is in session! Do not hesitate to ask your princess of the night anything."

Luna: "Well I guess it...ADVENTURE TIME!"

[P51Mustang]

So I downloaded the episode off of iTunes, and around the 16:44 mark (or around there) Scootaloo clucks instead of saying Canterlot. Well after that, the voice and the animation falls out of sync for the rest of the episode. Has anyone else had this problem with the iTunes download?

[starswirlthebearded]

So I downloaded the episode off of iTunes, and around the 16:44 mark (or around there) Scootaloo clucks instead of saying Canterlot. Well after that, the voice and the animation falls out of sync for the rest of the episode. Has anyone else had this problem with the iTunes download?

Sounds like you got a corrupt file. Delete and redownload it.

[rjrgmc28]

So I downloaded the episode off of iTunes, and around the 16:44 mark (or around there) Scootaloo clucks instead of saying Canterlot. Well after that, the voice and the animation falls out of sync for the rest of the episode. Has anyone else had this problem with the iTunes download?

You're not the only one having the same trouble. I've purchased and downloaded the episode and I'm having the same problem as well. I'm playing the episode through my home theatre system (Apple TV with the optical audio component connected directly to my Sony 5.1 Amplifier unit) and I can clearly hear the cluck.

[P51Mustang]

You're not the only one having the same trouble. I've purchased and downloaded the episode and I'm having the same problem as well. I'm playing the episode through my home theatre system (Apple TV with the optical audio component connected directly to my Sony 5.1 Amplifier unit) and I can clearly hear the cluck.

Sounds like we need to either contact iTunes, DHX or both.

[MidnightBlackhorn]

I loved this episode! Maybe I'm just partial to Scootaloo and Dashie, but so far it's my favorite episode this season. 10/10

[EquestriaForever]

So I downloaded the episode off of iTunes, and around the 16:44 mark (or around there) Scootaloo clucks instead of saying Canterlot. Well after that, the voice and the animation falls out of sync for the rest of the episode. Has anyone else had this problem with the iTunes download?

A Cluck? ... Scootaloo clucks... ... Well, on the surface, it sounds as though someone's making a very costly prank involving Scootaloo's reputation as a chicken at the expense of the people who download off of iTunes... If that's the case whoever it is will probably lose his or her job. And I'm sorry you're having this difficulty. I absolutely hate it when technology doesn't do what it's supposed to.

[rjrgmc28]

Equestria Daily has just done an article on the audio issues on the iTunes release: http://www.equestria...nes-issues.html

It looks like this has become a widespread problem as other users are reporting the same problems as mentioned previously, as there are additional glitches in the audio throughout the episode and there is also a mention of the picture becoming pixelated towards the start.

Also as a side note, this isn't the first time that the show has suffered from audio and sync issues. One of the Australian season 1 DVD releases had major sync issues due to the PAL speed up on the episodes.

[weesh]

It is a bit surprising that you guys are all so excited about this episode...until I remember that you are not me.

It's a yo-yo episode, switching between awesomeness and awfulness. The reason is that whenever we see Scootaloo scared/nervous/faking bravery, I feel her discomfort.

Painfully clearly.

I enjoyed many points, but it is unlikely that I can sit through it again without squirming. I wouldn't trade away my severe sense of empathy, but wow does it suck sometimes.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

I wouldn't say that nobody else feels Scootaloo's discomfort. While the experience as a whole might be different, that feeling of discomfort is one of the things about this episode that makes it so moving. Its the same reason why people watch tragedies or horror movies, sometimes its just really fun to be scared. And sometimes it is nice to that someone out there feels the same way we do, that we're not alone in feeling awkward, scared, nervous or sad.

[HopeFox]

Having allowed this episode to settle in my mind for a few days, I've realised why it resonates so strongly with me.

I have a lot of nightmares. I don't really know why, but nightmares, sleep disturbances and sleepwalking are a common nocturnal occurence for me. I don't even remember them for the most part.

As such, while Scootaloo's actual nightmares are more suspenseful than actually horrific to me, the way she reacts to them really struck a chord in me. I know all too well the feeling of waking up in the middle of the night, and being convinced that something terrible is about to happen, then doing something amazingly stupid like running off into the woods alone or putting my leg through a plate glass door. Rational thought basically stops working, and you can't help but act the way the nightmares are making you act.

I never really understood the bronies who say that they want to live in Equestria, but a magical princess who watched over my dreams would sweeten the deal, let me tell you. Ironically, the night after watching the episode for the second time, I had the worst nightmares I've had in months, which is why I haven't watched it again since then. It was a brilliant episode, and I will watch it again soon. Just not for a few days.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

While I was at work, I was pondering why I didn't find Scootaloo's nervousness particularly uncomfortable while I have in the past found things like that to be unnerving. The difference for me, I think is in the rest of the cast.

I was able to empathize with Scootaloo, partly on account of my terrible trouble with nightmares as a child, but more than that, I was able to empathize with her friends. The setup was also a classic trust building kind of scenario, out in the woods, away from strangers and any chance of public humiliation, and surrounded by friends that you could count on to catch you when you fall, both figuratively and as it turned out, literally.

Every time I saw one of Applejack's knowing smiles, or Sweetie Belle and Applebloom's encouragements, I knew the only thing Scootaloo had to fear was fear itself.

[weesh]

I wouldn't say that nobody else feels Scootaloo's discomfort. While the experience as a whole might be different, that feeling of discomfort is one of the things about this episode that makes it so moving. Its the same reason why people watch tragedies or horror movies, sometimes its just really fun to be scared. And sometimes it is nice to that someone out there feels the same way we do, that we're not alone in feeling awkward, scared, nervous or sad.

I didn't mean to say that no one else feels her discomfort. But I feel her discomfort as if I am in her exact position. It is hard to imagine why someone would want to feel that bad for a fictional character, but then I don't understand the horror genre either.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

People who are used to discomfort in the pursuit of their goals tend to enjoy that more. When you are running a marathon, it is anything but comfortable, but you know there is going to be a payoff at the end, and for some people it is worth it. So being caused discomfort can be a positive thing when it is reminiscent of someone's experiences overcoming challenges, as there is some satisfaction to be had from the ordeal.

[TaleWind]

I must say, I love the new role they've given Luna. It was my understanding that the sisters used magic to raise the moon and sun, and it was mentioned in Winter Wrap Up that in Canterlot they use magic to change the seasons. Giving Luna the task of guarding the night and people's dreams as well is actually super cool. It means she's actually useful like her sister. Now I'm wondering ... if Luna is guardian of dreams, does that make Celestia guardian of daydreams? That could get awkward. ^^;

I also love the ending. It's about time Scoot had a big sister, even if they're not related. ^^

As for the rest of the episode ... Idk. Rainbow seemed under-acted while Scoot seemed way too over-acted. I know it's a Scoot episode but the other characters barely got a look in, and that includes Rainbow, who's supposed to be a main focus as well.

I'm also having trouble accepting Rarity's attitude. Not because she's frustrating, but because she's not living up to ther Element like the other five are. Rarity is the element of generosity. We saw her being extremely generous in the first episode, and again when she made them all dresses. She's also displayed small shreds of it at certain times. Generosity's opposite is either being miserly, or selfish. Or both. In tis episode we see her forcing SB to pull her cart for her. In Sonic Rainboom we see her completely steal Rainbow's show because of vanity, and I can think of countless other examples of pretty darn selfish behaviour on her part. In fact I can recall more examples of her being very selfish than I can of her being generous.

Fluttershy is almost always kind, AJ is honest and true, Rainbow is always loyal, Pinkie almost always laughs, etc. Obviously they all have times when they're not representing the image of their element, which is great because it shows good depth with the characters, but Rarity seems to be more selfish than she is generous, and I guess that just doesn't sit well with me. That doesn't mean I don't still love her though. x3

[weesh]

...but Rarity seems to be more selfish than she is generous, and I guess that just doesn't sit well with me...

The idea of rarity going camping is ludicrous. If you imagine a continuum with Rarity at one side, and Sweetie Bell on the other, who moved more in the compromise? Ideally, we would have seen rarity using her magic to move the cart, but whatever. Other episodes? Yeah, I wish she was was generous more often because this is a pretty bad example of it.

[EquestriaForever]

I'm also having trouble accepting Rarity's attitude. Not because she's frustrating, but because she's not living up to ther Element like the other five are. Rarity is the element of generosity. We saw her being extremely generous in the first episode, and again when she made them all dresses. She's also displayed small shreds of it at certain times. Generosity's opposite is either being miserly, or selfish. Or both. In tis episode we see her forcing SB to pull her cart for her. In Sonic Rainboom we see her completely steal Rainbow's show because of vanity, and I can think of countless other examples of pretty darn selfish behaviour on her part. In fact I can recall more examples of her being very selfish than I can of her being generous.

Fluttershy is almost always kind, AJ is honest and true, Rainbow is always loyal, Pinkie almost always laughs, etc. Obviously they all have times when they're not representing the image of their element, which is great because it shows good depth with the characters, but Rarity seems to be more selfish than she is generous, and I guess that just doesn't sit well with me. That doesn't mean I don't still love her though. x3

I actually don't mind having Rarity act selfishly. Because when she acts selfishly it is steadily tied up in her vanity. When she stole the show it was due to her enjoying the compliments her new wings were getting, when she was out camping with Sweetie Bell and "Letting" her pull the cart, because she didn't look like she was actually making her, it was so that she wouldn't get sweaty and dirty I imagine, so she was keeping to her image. Her flaw interrupts her generosity, and for me that's pretty steady, so I'm okay with it.

A.J. is actually the one I have the most problem with. I love her in that she's a hard worker, takes things seriously, is there for her friends, dependable, etc... But to me she seems to lie just as much as everyone else, in the same situations. There's never been a scenario that I can recall where she's picked the truth over helping her friends, which might be for the best, but doesn't really give me much of an honesty vibe. What I mainly call to mind is Pinkie Pie and A.J. when Pinkie Pie was convinced her friends didn't like her anymore and they were really hiding her birthday party, A.J. outright lied to Pinkie Pie about barn construction. And it isn't that she's lied so much that bugs me, but that I don't remember seeing an example of shining honesty. And Honesty is a bit more than just telling the truth, or narrowly avoiding telling the truth... It's a moral structure that requires certain behaviors that I don't think she meets.

Sorry, that one's my rant... However I don't have trouble with Rarity acting selfishly because the reasoning behind it seems to have been pretty steady to me. And as for the others, they're pretty consistent, so I'm good with it. Nods.

[Dessa]

AJ was clearly uncomfortable lying to Pinkie in party of one, and she was the worst liar of the bunch by far. She did it because she knew it would be worth it in the end.

[EquestriaForever]

AJ was clearly uncomfortable lying to Pinkie in party of one, and she was the worst liar of the bunch by far. She did it because she knew it would be worth it in the end.

Yes, however she still did it, and that's not the only time she did do it. I like Applejack, she's hard-working, dependable, and keeps her end of a bargain. However despite her being the honest character, I have yet to see her tell the truth when it would have been advantageous to her to lie... Instead, she lies. Also the "Last Roundup" I think it was called, where she went to the Rodeo and couldn't come home due to the shame. She lied althroughout that episode, and despite her thinly veiled "I said I would tell you at breakfast only I didn't got to breakfast" that was still a lie because she said she would tell them tomorrow at breakfast and just plain didn't. Rarity I've seen a contrast between her generosity and her selfishness. Applejack... has just never had a situation where she was challenged to be honest and met the challenge... or at least none that I have seen or remember. Nods.

[starswirlthebearded]

I remember reading an interesting article that said, in essence, the mane 6 do not personify their elements, but rather their elements are what they hold in highest regard.

I kinda agree with that from what I've seen. Each has lapses of what their element is, pretty consistently too. But each also has times when they perfectly personify their element.

[aFlatmajor]

I couldn't say I agree more or less.

All I know is, the Mane six at least try to stay true to their element. Take Pinkie for example, she's laughter. And think of a time she couldn't make you laugh; almost never. Plus, she herself is smiling nearly 24/7...

Though, we have seen her cry...Because with each element comes an equal and opposite element.

((Science!!!!))

Honesty = Deception

Loyalty = Betrayal

And it goes on.

It's impossible to know something without knowing it's opposite. This stands true for just about everything.

Rarity is a perfect example. Though I can't really tell if I see more greed in her than generousity...

Also, about them not personifying their elements, I'm sure if I'm completely on board for that. Not for all of them at least...Think of a time Fluttershy wasn't kind....Wait, nevermind, ignore my previous statement about the personifying.

Scootaloo's episode; we talk about characters that weren't even in the episode...lol

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Personally, I disagree with the notion that the elements are what the characters hold in the highest regard, rather than what they personify. The fact is that none of the elements is perfect in and of itself, and its only through friendship and working together that they're able to produce harmony. (Their elements do make a good lens with which to view their circumstances though, especially when trying to avoid the correspondence bias.)

Applejack tells the truth when it would be advantageous to lie all the time, you just don't notice it because you're not thinking about lies when she's acting normally. Her honesty is reflected not only in her words, but in her actions. When she doesn't like the truth, she doesn't turn and hide from it, she goes out and changes it without concern for how hard the challenge might be.

The list of times she could have lied to her benefit is endless, but here are a few:

• Applejack could have lied to Twilight Sparkle to get the ticket to the Gala in The Ticket Master.

• She could have lied in Look Before you Sleep to get Rarity out of her mane numerous times, even before the slumber party started.

• She could have lied about Zecora to get Twilight to turn against her at the very start.

• She could have lied and made up a task that didn't actually need to be done in Winter Wrap Up to keep Twilight from messing things up.

• At any point in time, she could have lied to Applebloom about her cutie mark to get her to stop fussing. (bonus points for implying that doing more work around the farm would cause it to appear faster.)

• She could have lied during Over a Barrel in any number of ways in order to get Bloomberg back or turn Rainbow Dash against the buffalo.

• The entire episode of The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000.

Last Roundup in particular was a brilliant example of Applejack's honesty hard at work, and the ways it was incomplete without her friends. She was put in that spot because of her honesty, having made a promise she couldn't keep, and all of her struggles stemmed from trying to turn her original promise into the truth, having failed at her first attempt. She could have lied and made up any story she wanted and gotten out of the mess without any repercussions but to her sense of honesty. But Applejack is not just about the immediate, plain truth, she is about the whole truth.

She may have resorted to a deceptive literal truth in The Last Roundup, by promising to tell them at a breakfast when they didn't end up eating breakfast at all, but that was Applejack's moment of failure when she allowed fear of the consequences to prevent her from being honest. In Suited for Success, she tells Rarity "You're not a laughing stock," even though Rainbow Dash confirms that, "She kinda is." In this case she is denying the literal truth for the whole truth. Rarity claimed she was a laughing stock, but the subtext of her remark was not what other ponies thought of her, but rather it was about who and what she inherently was, as in the quality of her character. And to that Applejack was absolutely correct in pointing out the truth, that Rarity's inherent character was worthwhile, and that what the other ponies thought didn't matter one bit.

Honesty in a subjective universe isn't about a black and white set of rules that you must follow or else, it is about furthering understanding, even in the face of people who will use or hold that understanding against you.

(How uncomfortable must it have been to Applejack when trying to throw the surprise party for Pinkie Pie and suddenly being grilled, by a pony who she knows enjoys surprise parties, who she's helped throw surprise parties with in the past? What is Pinkie Pie thinking? How would Pinkie Pie respond? Its not like she can ask at that moment. But the truth of the matter as far as Applejack had any way of knowing is that Pinkie Pie should have appreciated the surprise, and would have understood how much her friendship meant to them in part because of it.)

Speaking of Suited for Success, Rarity often displays the distinction between generosity and waste. You can give and give, but if all you are doing is throwing your time and effort into a hole in the ground, then its a waste. Such generosity involves appreciating things that are greater than yourself, and as an exceptional quality, it also means appreciating things that others don't, even when those things are other people themselves or traits that other people don't appreciate within themselves. (Like Fluttershy in Green Isn't Your Col[colour=#111111]or.[/colour])

And like The Last Roundup, Rarity's moment of failure in Season 2 came in Sweet and Elite, when she couldn't come to terms with the fact that couldn't give more than she had, no matter how hard she tried. But in the end, she knew that her friendship was something that was greater than herself, while her position in high society was not.

Also, Rarity and Sweetie Belle both likely understood the value of what they were giving each other. You think pulling a huge cart is tough? Well, sitting around all day won't give you the ability to do THIS!

[EquestriaForever]

It occurs to me, fairly late I guess, that perhaps this isn't the best place to discuss Applejack's honesty... perhaps a different discussion set should be made for it.

However, because I have trouble ending response... There are of course situations under which Applejack would have benefited from lying and she didn't. She didn't because she's not "Dishonest" that's not the argument I'm making. Because the rest of the Mane Six aren't "Dishonest" either. There are situations under which lying would benefit them where they didn't, just as many as Applejack. My point is that Applejack, when it has been to her active detriment to tell the truth, hasn't told the truth that I can see. She's acted honorably when it was to her detriment, kept her end of bargains, did everything she could to help her friends... However she's lied under the same circumstances as the others for the most part, that I can see, and hasn't stood up for honesty when it would be a huge detriment to her, when honesty was causing her problems, and she picked honesty anyways... That's my problem. She's never passed a test to prove that she deserves the element of honesty... That I can see.

Rarity proved her generosity by taking projects for her friends when it would be detrimental to her and going on with it anyways. Fluttershy occupies a state of kindness, as Pinkie Pie occupies a state of laughter. Rainbow Dash has never failed a test in loyalty that I can see, and so thus far she most perfectly represents her element out of all of them that I can think. And Twilight... well she's magic... all the time... pretty easy for her from a moral test standpoint. I'm not saying that any of them were perfect... if they were, we wouldn't love them so much... however as dependable, good-hearted, and hard-working as Applejack is... she's never had an episode where her honesty was put properly to the test and showed her getting into trouble because of her honesty... and the reason this aggravates me so much is because we saw the opposite episode where she forsook honesty almost entirely, at least that I see...

However different opinions are going to abound... And I don't see me being convinced otherwise or convincing people that a rightly loved character as Applejack isn't honesty unless they already believe it... So I'm probably going to stop discussing this, unless someone can show me that definitive moment where Applejack outright gets into trouble because of her Honesty, and still chooses to be honest... I really would really rather like it to be revealed that I missed something and am wrong. I just don't think I am.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Hey, this episode has Applejack in it, and in an almost main role too. Her efforts to expose the truth behind Rainbow Dash's horror story for Scootaloo's sake, is an element of her honesty.

There are several definitive moments where Applejack outright gets into trouble because of her honesty.

• Look Before You Sleep. Applejack tells Rarity honestly what she thinks of Rarity's fussiness, and gets an episode of trouble for her honesty. While Twilight, even though she realizes that something is going on, doesn't address the issue until it is almost too late.

• Fall Weather Friends. During the Iron Pony Competition, she competes honestly and loses because of it.

• Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000. Applejack honestly states her confidence in her family's ability to win, and because of that, when she is challenged she risks losing everything (and very nearly does) in the process of proving her statement true.

In The Last Roundup, Applejack honestly says she will return to Ponyville with lots of money to fix the town hall, and it gets her into trouble when her friends try to get her to return before she has a lot of money to fix town hall. She cannot allow herself to be put in a position where her friends will make a liar out of her, which turns into a Catch-22 before the end.

The problem with Applejack's honesty is that when she lies, it is a positive-positive case of Illusory Association Between Events, because we simply do not notice negative cases, especially as negative cases become more rare. It is especially compounded because Applejack is so infrequently the center of attention.

Rainbow Dash's moment of failure was in the much maligned episode The Mysterious Mare Do Well, when she marginalizes her friends and ignores a falling pony to sign autographs until the last second. Its a pity the episode was so bad, because it could have been a defining moment for Dash, rather than a moment most people go out of their way to forget. Then, in May the Best Pet Win, she leaves her potential pets behind, and if it weren't for a loyal turtle who ended up reminding her about loyalty, she'd have been left behind in turn. Then there was Over A Barrel, where she goes head to head with her friend Applejack and ends up inflaming the conflict further.

Pinkie Pie's moment of failure came in A Friend In Deed where in trying to force herself on a newcomer, she only succeeded in making him miserable and angry, and it wasn't until the end of the episode that she realized she needed to consider what he wanted.

Fluttershy gets to be unkind in Best Night Ever, when she makes unreasonable demands of the local fauna, and her moment of Failure is crystal clear in Putting Your Hoof Down.

The point about the Elements of Harmony is not that they get you into trouble though. The point is that they are the most powerful magic in Equestria, and that following them is in your best interests. They are at their best when they are not getting ponies into trouble, and so it is almost an unfair comparison between ponies like Pinkie Pie and Applejack, because there are significantly fewer circumstances where Laughter is going to get you in trouble. The fact is that most of the time, Applejack is unconcerned with the consequences of telling the truth because of her honesty, and so it does not become a problem for her even when it might be a problem for others.

(Rarity is afraid of saying something that might make her unpopular, in Sweet and Elite when she claims that Rainbow Dash is the Wonderbolt's trainer, but Applejack has no trouble saying things that are unpopular, like when she explains why there's not enough cider to go around, or any time she acts uncouth around others without concern. She is who she is and makes being herself look easy.)

She has no problem expressing her fears to others, claiming without second thought that she is afraid of dragons in Dragonshy, in contrast to Fluttershy who does not admit her weaknesses to others, and Rainbow Dash who has significant problems telling others if she is afraid of something, or was afraid of something in her youth, or admitting to others that she likes doing uncool things like reading. She doesn't hesitate to explain her farm's financial state to her competitors. And it is this willingness to expose her vulnerabilities that helps define her honesty, along with her willingness to work to make her views a reality.

Honesty is not about being a robot that answers all questions literally, it is about understanding and comprehension. Literal answers can be twisted all around to get misleading statements if you try.