Which Element of Harmony is the Least/Most important?

[QuickLime]

As you know there are six elements of Harmony (albeit retired currently )

We have

Magic:

Loyalty:

Kindness:

Honesty:

Laughter:

And Generosity :

Which of them individually is the most useful?

Which one seems the less useful?

Honestly Magic might seem the least important but I believe that the element of magic has a second role, not just of the element of magic, but the element of unity, notice how the other elements won't work if Magic is not present? Notice how many of the lessons involve standing together?

Celestia and Luna lost their connection to the elements due to them losing unity with each other after all

So for the most useful it's a tie between Unity, and Loyalty for me

For the least useful it's Laughter with Generosity being a second choice

Because to me a Loyal, honest and kind friend is better than a generous friend that makes me laugh ^^;

What are your thoughts?

[RarityDash]

For me, I'd order them like this in terms of most to least important:

Kindness is a thing that I think really goes a long way. If people are kind to each other, if negativity can be removed and put aside, I think that is the most important part of friendship. Kindness can open doors before anything else, i think.

Magic/friendship/whatever is of course going to be toward the top as it is at the core of everything. Friendships aren't going to work without a thread of togetherness, a sense of friendship, tying them together though, so it's gotta be right up there.

Laughter I place in the middle as I think it's pretty critical. People gravitated toward people who they find it fun to be around. You can find people who are kind and honest and true to you, but if you don't actually find it fun to be with them, it's not gonna really work, I think.

Generosity is fourth because it's kind of redundant next to kindness. Really, the elements are not distinguishable enough from each other. Generosity implies kindness. The only difference is in that it also implies selflessness. Selflessness is a good quality, but the kindness is the truly meaningful component.

Honesty is important, but only so much in that its fifth. Friends do need to be honest with each other, certainly, but in terms of immediacy it's somewhat lesser. Friendships aren't going to get built purely on honesty and honesty can also be destructive.

Loyalty is sixth. A true, true friend is certainly what we want, but really, to me, loyalty is something that follows the other things more than something that constitutes friendship on its own. If the other things are present in a friendship, I think it almost certainly follows that friends will show loyalty to each other.

[Slazer]

Which Elements, being virtues by and large, are most important to someone is mostly a matter of opinion. With that in mind, here are my thoughts:

The Elements most important to me are Honesty and Loyalty, with Laughter and Generosity being secondary. Kindness, to be perfectly honest, ranks low to me for the simple fact that I would rather have a brutally honest and loyal friend who can give me a good kick in the flank- which past experiences has shown I may need from time to time to get my head straight- over a kind and funny friend who is unreliable, or a generous and loyal one who would lie to me.

[QuickLime]

Which Elements, being virtues by and large, are most important to someone is mostly a matter of opinion.

I am aware, I never stated anywhere that my thoughts are indeed set in stone facts

[Slazer]

I am aware, I never stated anywhere that my thoughts are indeed set in stone facts

I didn't mean to imply that; I was just stating that for the benefit of my own- rather harsh, in my own eyes- thoughts. Sorry for the misleading comment.

[QuickLime]

I didn't mean to imply that; I was just stating that for the benefit of my own- rather harsh, in my own eyes- thoughts. Sorry for the misleading comment.

Oh! It's okay! It's my mistake not yours

[sleeps]

hmmmm good question. If I had to guess it would go like this from least important to most important from my experience

Laughter: Unfortunately even after re watching the season I don't exactly understand why this is part of the elements of harmony. Yes laughter can make you feel good and see a positive out come on something however harmony from what I have study doesn't exactly mean having a full be all positive. I like the idea of Taoism where there is both positive and negative to maintain harmony which laughter usually stays on the positive side by generally society thoughts on the matter. Of course I could be looking into this to much. Anyways Laughter always felt kind of like a last minute addition that doesn't exactly make much sense. when compared to the other elements.

Magic: This one also is a bit of an oddity in my book. Magic usually is defined as something mythical or not real. The only reason I put it above laughter is when I look back at some Taoism and the whole " this is evil within the good and vice versa" I could maybe see this as being what could be considered the "magically" part of harmony. Overall though it feels kind of like a stretch. (However the fact I'm trying to analyze a show for little girls might just be a stretch as well)

Loyalty: Okay this one I had to debate on myself because I can see this actually being part of harmony. When is it okay to be loyal? and when is it okay to be disloyal? It is a fairly fine line to walk that I think Rainbow Dash actually shows pretty well when she joined the Wonderbolt academy. In order to remain loyal to her friends Rainbow Dash had to give up being loyal to the academy by resigning. (Even if in the end she got back in) Anyways I put it half because being loyal to one side is good but that doesn't always mean that in order to maintain harmony you have to give up everything to one side or the other.

Kindness: Alright I am flat out going to admit this probably has a bit of bias on my part since where I grew up I basically was taught that if you are kind to someone then that kindness will come back to you. I consider this pretty harmonizing because depending on how kind you are to some one is how much kindess you usually get back which can overall balance out nicely if you try to give each person at least some kindness.

Generosity: Lets face it, humans at times can be fairly greedy. (Heck just look at the recent black Friday videos all over youtube) Thomas Hobbes wrote it best in his book "The Leviathan" that human life is greedy, cruel, and painful. However, I think generosity is important to harmony because it contradicts this ideal thought that all humans (or ponies if we want to be in pony universe speak) are evil and that infact when we need help us fellow humans (or ponies) can indeed put aside our differences and help one another in a time of crises.

Honesty: I put Honesty at the top of the list because it can be a very good example of how it maintains harmony even if it involves telling being honestly evil. Now that was probably an oxymoron so I'll try to explain what I mean as best as I can. Now the general thought is that when you are honesty you are being good and truthful. However at the same time people can say that you are being brutally honesty when giving a harsh critique or review to something and their for are bad. I think this represents harmony the best because it shows that honesty can be both good and bad making it fall smack dab in the middle and thus showing how harmony as a balance for things.

I hope that explains why I put where though I am more then open to people critiquing or pointing out my flaws. (Which if college taught me anything it is that I have a lot of them in my logic)

[Fireheart]

My list goes as

Personality I have loyalty first because I feel it is the most important element. Loyalty is the glue that keeps friends together. If there was no loyalty at all in any relation then there is no trust. I personally prefer to have a friend whom I can depend on to have my back at any time should the goings get rough.

Next on my list is honesty. Honesty, like loyalty, is a very important glue in a friendship. Many wars have been started both global and even in households because of trust being abused. If I have no trust in someone then I cannot trust them to make the right decisions even if they mean well. Abusing that sacred gift we call trust will only further damage that fragile mirror. Even though we may be able to fix that gift the cracks will stay there forever.

Third is kindness. Kindness is almost like the very start of any relationship. With even the smallest amount of it can take anyone to very far places. I think even Morgan Freeman was trying to tell us that in "Evan Allmighty". Most really good friendships start with a little bit of kindness, but sadly nowadays it's such a rare thing to witness.

Number four is magic or as Quicklime said "Unity". Yea I know many are going to say "but magic should be number one", I'm going have to disagree. You can only claim unity once there is a positive amount of the previous elements. If you don't have any of these three then how can you become "united" for any purpose. The fact that unity though is so vital to a friendship keeps it from falling further in my list.

Second to last on my list is laughter. Laughter, like kindness, can be the start of any relationship. However laughter should be used for certain occasions, like picking a friend up when they're down or lighting up a tense situation. The drawback is when you use laughter too much people will soon to not be able to take you seriously. They might laugh all right, but it may be directed mostly at you.

Sadly down on the bottom is generosity. (Please don't hate me Rarity!) Generosity is almost like a splinter off of kindness, only problem is acting without personal gain. I'll ask anyone who sees this, how many times had you acted for something and not expected any reward at the end? I'll be honest here I'm not always generous myself, but it's always in our nature. I envy Rarity for being able to give away so much and not want anything in return, I will never have that strength. The reason though why I have it as last is that it's even more rare than kindness. Almost to the fact where it's nonexistent.

[Rosewind]

Honesty and Kindness, clearly the background elements.

[QuickLime]

Honesty and Kindness, clearly the background elements.

Very true!

[Corsair]

Honesty and Kindness, clearly the background elements.

Rosewind is the element of Stink...

[LuminousNight]

First of all, I just want to say absolutely love this question. You've had me pondering it for days now. Here's what I've come up with.

First of all, I want to be clear on this: I don't think it's possible to call any of the actual Elements of Harmony more important then the others. They do not function without the others, they are all required.

Talking about the virtues they are ment to represent is another matter entirely. Magic is quite simply the most important. It represents friendship itself. It's true, it does not form in the absence of the other five elements. That's the whole point of the season one opener. However, once in place, it is not extinguished even when all five of the others have evaporated. It can even reignite the others if they've gone. This is the lesson of the season two opener.

It's a rather unfair competition though, since friendship (or unity as Quick Lime called it) is the point of the Elements of Harmony. So, I'll set Magic aside and have a look at the other five.

Out of the others, I would make Honesty the most important. Personally, I feel the show has characterized this element in a much broader sense then simply telling the truth and prefer the term Celestia used in the season three finale: integrity. Sometimes the truth hurts, that's true. And that's why it takes a true friend to tell it to you. Someone who pretends to be your friend will always tell you what you want to hear. A true friend will tell you what you need to hear, even if it rocks the boat. This is why Applejack's Element is most important in my opinion. We all make bad choices and wind up stumbling around in the wild woods of life, and what we need most then is someone to point us back to the path.

I'm not going to go through all the Elements. I'm not going to declare one least important either, they're all required. I would like to comment on something I've seen a few times in this thread though.

Generousity and Kindness have been called too similar a few times, someone even called Generosity an off shoot of Kindness. I understand why one would say that, but I strongly disagree.

Kindness is about compassion and empathy. It is about the capacity and willingness to participate in the pain of another so we might more fully understand them. Generosity requires some degree of that understanding, it's true, but it's about more then being a loving person. It's about a willingness to give, not just your possessions but to give of yourself. Rarity cutting off her tail for our favorite fabulous dragon, while a moment I always cringe at because it's overly dramatic and probably unnecessary, shows the difference between Generosity and Kindness. Fluttershy would've been very understanding, a soothing presence that allowed Steven to cope with the loss. But Rarity sacrificed something dear to her to someone who needed it more. So much more then donating something she no longer needed or wanted, she gave one of her most dear possessions.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

[xXDashieXx]

Okay, so my thoughts about this.

So,

Magic: The reason why I put magic first is everytime Twilight has a big part to do with a lot. When her friends were changed up in S2 E1&2 she kept her faith and helped her friends through it because she would not let them down. She has always been there to support everyone. Kind of, without Twilight the main 6 would be lost because Twilight is the one that pulls them together most of the time.

Loyalty: The reason loyalty is next on my list is because in my opinion, loyalty means when someone doesn't back out on you. I would like to have someone loyal to me than someone who is fun for example pinkie. In S1 E1&2 Rainbow has a choice between the shadowbolts (which are pretty cool!) and her friends. She chooses her friends because she realized that she would rather be with her friends than the shadowbolts. To me, that is a very worthy character trait to have and I think that this one fits Rainbow perfectly!

Kindness: The reason why i choose kindness to be next is because in a friend, I look for people who are nice to everyone no matter how they are or what they look like. That is not something that sets a person apart from others. Like many people have said, looks don't matter its about what's inside. You may look pretty on the outside but in the inside, your heart could be smaller than a bees. Fluttershy is the kindest person around. She doesn't care whether you've made a bad impression she tries to be kind to you. Even when she is really mad she does not crush anything and hurt anyone. When she does do something mean, she comes to her senses pretty fast and apologizes fast if she hurt anyone's feelings.

Honesty: I have to admit, I hate having friends that lie to me. If you have a good friend that doesn't lie, that's a keeper! Applejack wouldn't lie for anyone or anything. Also, from a friend I expect them to be honest with me. A good friend of mine lied all the time. She told lies to everyone and spread rumours. We aren't friends now because she started spreading rumours about me! So, being honest is better than getting what you want. This is very important when you are able to admit your mistake and admit that you need help. Applejack does just that and that's what makes me like her so much!

Laughter: I have had a scenario that Pinkie is just a little bit to jumpy. Of course she is so much fun and hug-able I find something very creepy about her. If I were in a serious situation, I wouldn't laugh like Pinkie would. Pinkie almost laughs all the time. Of course its good to have a good laugh sometimes but not all the time! Watching the episode Pinkie Keen made me feel a lot more aware of how creepy Pinkie Pie just was. She likes Rainbow Dash a lot. In my opinion, its the excited and the bored. Pinkie and Rainbow. Laughter to me is not how you solve real life problems and that is why laughter is in my bottom 2.

Generosity: The reason why generosity is last for me is simple. Generosity is just a smaller branch of kindness. In my opinion, we don't really need 2 characters that show kindness or being nice to others. Rarity is a stunning pony in many ways but generosity is not exactly one of the main 6 elements for me.

Those are my opinions! Please don't dislike me if you disagree

[tartarus]

Well... I mean, I kinda get what Dashie says because it is something I thought about myself as well. Only... I came to the conclusion that if smaller branches of kindness aren't allowed, then we should remove loyalty and probably honesty as well. I mean, an unkind person won't really be loyal. and an unkind honest person... well... that's pretty much the exact opposite of friendship or harmony. So... -shrugs- Just my thoughts.

[xXDashieXx]

Only... I came to the conclusion that if smaller branches of kindness aren't allowed, then we should remove loyalty and probably honesty as well.

Okay just something to say, generosity is the only smaller branch of kindness really. Loyalty and Honesty are big ones. Maybe if the story line were different instead of generosity it would be something like passion.

[QuickLime]

I personally could see Rainbow Dash as the Element of Integrity, and AppleJack as the element of Passion

[xXDashieXx]

I personally could see Rainbow Dash as the Element of Integrity, and AppleJack as the element of Passion

Those would be very good ones if they had to change!

[Silentium]

Personally, I can't make a list of "best to worst" elements of harmony that other people have made. The reason is that they aren't always good, so trying to balance the "pros and cons" makes it a tought list.

Loyalty? Yea, that's pretty good, until that loyaly becomes blind loyalty.

Magic? Sure, you can do good, but the guy next to you will probably mess it all up and do a whole lot more.

Honesty? Well how much is too much? Will it do more harm than lying in the end?

Kindness and Generocity? Both are good, but you may end up spending something of yours (i.e. time, money, etc.) on something that may be a waste.

Laughter? Well... there's not really much good or bad about this.

In terms of friendship, magic seems to be the least important. You could remove magic all together and still have a good friendship, even within the MLP universe. Some people have suggested that magic could also mean a sense kindredship. Even with this magic will still be towards the bottom (but it does put it above laughter); the sense of kindredship is useless if your actual friendship isn't a good one, or if your friendship "has no morals," (i.e. honesty, kindess, loyalty, ect.) for a lack of a better phrase/term. If anything, the pseudo-friendship will probably be more harmful in the end (again with the "it's not always good" thing).

As for a most important, well... it's a tie. Honesty, loyalty, and kindness all seem equaly important for a good relationship. Who cares if your friend is generous or can crack a joke, it's useless if he/she is just going to lie to you, stab you in the back, and be inconsiderate towards you (unless if that's what you want).

[LuminousNight]

Personally, I can't make a list of "best to worst" elements of harmony that other people have made. The reason is that they aren't always good, so trying to balance the "pros and cons" makes it a tought list.

Loyalty? Yea, that's pretty good, until that loyaly becomes blind loyalty.

Magic? Sure, you can do good, but the guy next to you will probably mess it all up and do a whole lot more.

Honesty? Well how much is too much? Will it do more harm than lying in the end?

Kindness and Generocity? Both are good, but you may end up spending something of yours (i.e. time, money, etc.) on something that may be a waste.

Laughter? Well... there's not really much good or bad about this.

Not the main thrust of my reply, but I'm far too much of a fanboy not to mention this. What you're talking about is one of the big reasons I love Fallout: Equestria. Not only do their elements taken too far result in each of the main six's downfall during the war, but we see so many characters in the resulting wasteland who bear those same traits twisted or taken too far. The mercenary loyal only to the contract, the pony consumed by magic, the warlord freely giving what isn't his to give.But anything taken too far is bad. That's no excuse to step out of the discussion. The whole point is to discuss this sort of thing.

In terms of friendship, magic seems to be the least important. You could remove magic all together and still have a good friendship, even within the MLP universe. Some people have suggested that magic could also mean a sense kindredship. Even with this magic will still be towards the bottom (but it does put it above laughter); the sense of kindredship is useless if your actual friendship isn't a good one, or if your friendship "has no morals," (i.e. honesty, kindess, loyalty, ect.) for a lack of a better phrase/term. If anything, the pseudo-friendship will probably be more harmful in the end (again with the "it's not always good" thing).

*sighs* This is the main reason I felt the need to reply. I feel like you didn't read all the other posts, certainly not mine. Magic represents more then simple kinship. It's friendship itself. (It's even in the title for Luna's sake.) Like I already said, Magic (ie friendship) doesn't form in the absence of the other elements. You talk about a pseudo friendship forming in the absence of "morals" and how that can be harmful; you're right. Because that isn't a real friendship. Just like how people who lie to you to protect themselves aren't practicing pseudo honesty. You don't count liars as a mark against honesty, how can you hold fake friends as a mark againt Magic?I know I can seem harsh while debating my side, but nothing I said was intended as a personal attack and I hope you won't take it as such. My arguments were aimed at your arguments and how you expressed them, and I'd also like to encourage everyone to participate in an actual discussion, not just post thier own lists.</p>

[Silentium]

I know I can seem harsh while debating my side, but nothing I said was intended as a personal attack and I hope you won't take it as such. My arguments were aimed at your arguments and how you expressed them, and I'd also like to encourage everyone to participate in an actual discussion, not just post thier own lists.

First, this isn't a debate. My post wasn't asking for a debate. My post was just simply answering the OP, i.e. stating what I thought. Sorry if some of my ideas weren't the same as yours (but since I'm replying to your post, I'll reply to your points anyways. I guess this will inadvertedly turn into a debate...).

Secondly, the OP wasn't asking for a debate. No one else seems to think of this as a debate. Everyone else seems to be stating their opinion.

*sighs* This is the main reason I felt the need to reply. I feel like you didn't read all the other posts, certainly not mine. Magic represents more then simple kinship. It's friendship itself. (It's even in the title for Luna's sake.)

Alright, "a sense kindredship" was a bad choice of words to use. I was attempting to use it as a synonym for "unity" or "togetherness" and I ended up change more than I wanted. But regardless, I still keep my general opinion that unity (or a sense of unity) is useless if you have poor friends (everyone else seems to have mild variations on this, but magic being something with unity or togetherness seems to be the most accepted opinion).

Also, I personally don't believe that Magic is friendship itself.

Like I already said, Magic (ie friendship) doesn't form in the absence of the other elements. You talk about a pseudo friendship forming in the absence of "morals" and how that can be harmful; you're right. Because that isn't a real friendship.

I'm going to assume that you don't know what pseudo means. In any case, it means "not genuine; sham." A "pseudo-friendship" means that it isn't a real frienship.

Just like how people who lie to you to protect themselves aren't practicing pseudo honesty.

Actually, this depends. Are they attempting to make their lies seem like the thruth? The entire point of "pseudo" is that it seems like x even though it isn't actually x. If the person lies to protect themselves, masking this as the truth would be a big part in it. I mean, if you lied to someone for your own protection and it was obvious that you were lying, the objective of gaining protection has failed. This was a poor example to use on your behalf.

...how can you hold fake friends as a mark againt Magic?

If you were to understand what I was saying, I was saying that unity is pointless when your "friends" are acting more like enemies. What is the point of unity if your friends are just going to ruin you? I would rather have good friends with little unity than backstabbers with a lot of unity (and that "Option B" is probably going to be more harmful in the end).

[SongHeart]

well the elements won't work unless all of them are present. they don't work without all the elements. so they are all equally important.

[QuickLime]

I'd also like to encourage everyone to participate in an actual discussion, not just post thier own lists.</p>

Please don't try to control my thread, this isn't a debate, simply a gathering of opinions and open discussion, not a real debate.

[QuickLime]

well the elements won't work unless all of them are present. they don't work without all the elements. so they are all equally important.

That's true but this is hypothetical.

[LuminousNight]

Quicklime: I'm sorry, I assumed since this was posted as a thread and not a blog that you were inviting a discussion. I'll keep further thouhts to myself then.Silentium: Sorry it looked like I singled you out. You were just the one I was replying to. I was hoping to enourage a discussion from eveyone, but I guess not.

[QuickLime]

Quicklime: I'm sorry, I assumed since this was posted as a thread and not a blog that you were inviting a discussion. I'll keep further thouhts to myself then.Silentium: Sorry it looked like I singled you out. You were just the one I was replying to. I was hoping to enourage a discussion from eveyone, but I guess not.

Discussion is encouraged, but you telling others what to post and how to post really was crossing the line, that's not your call here, that's mine