Equestrian Religion

[Juneiper Jazz]

Because I think about these things, and some of the topics that I want to explore with Trixie are kind of not possible without some inkling of what religion in Equestria is like.

Do you have anything on that, or am I going to have to make stuff up? Because if I do end up making stuff up then it will be a safe bet that the cosmology will end up outlandish and Sailor Moon-esque.

[Tam]

Actually just today we got our most official map made! When my fellow admin Tam wakes up I will be uprooting all of the RP section and reforming it to fit the map we have made with both show references and our own places.

Map so far can be found here! Soon as I get that section in order tomorrow I will post a sticky in each area explaining what's where and why it is so you traveling types have things to reference. C:

[Juneiper Jazz]

Okay, I see what happened. Sorry, I wasn't really clear. My bad. Not region; religion.

I mean, are stuff like gods and religion really a concept in this world as it's presented in this here forum RPG? Is there any consensus here on the nature of Celestia (a god if I ever saw one) or any of the other mythology in Equestria as anything resembling religion? I have some ideas about the Elements of Harmony, a pantheon of pony gods to correspond to them, the relationship between Celestia and the natural laws of their universe, and so on. But I want to know if that will clash with what you have already decided for the world.

Personally, I just find this kind of world building to be a lot of fun.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

So far as I see, Celestia has been ruling Equestria for a long time. What happened before that is anyone's guess. Since we don't have any lore dating back more than a thousand years, anything (reasonable) is feasibly possible. If you want to make up some lore that comes before the thousand years, that would probably be fine, just clear it with the Admins before it becomes part of the RP story. Beyond that, Celestia, and now Luna, are the divine rulers of all of Equestria. They are Goddesses living on the Earth (or whatever planet the ponies live on).

Now, Zecora comes from Africa, so her religious views could be more tribal. As for the other ponies in the rest of the land, they worship the Goddesses of the sun and moon. That may also be why Zecora lives in a forest rather than a town. She may not have the same beliefs as the other ponies do. Being alone let's her practice her magical (Wiccan?) arts, without interference or skepticism.

[Kudalyn]

Ehh.....

I'm not sure that adding religion into Equestria is a good idea... slight politics is one thing with Princess Celestia, but I don't think we need to add something as complicated (and unnessecary in my opinion) as religion.

[Kudalyn]

Zecora comes from Africa, so her religious views could be more tribal. As for the other ponies in the rest of the land, they worship the Goddesses of the sun and moon. That may also be why Zecora lives in a forest rather than a town. She may not have the same beliefs as the other ponies do. Being alone let's her practice her magical (Wiccan?) arts, without interference or skepticism.

I think instead of 'religious' views, it was her 'cultural' views. All the masks she had were for greetings and such, remember?

[MyLittlePonyTales]

But she also makes weird brews and wears a hooded cloak.

[Kudalyn]

But she also makes weird brews and wears a hooded cloak.

A hooded cloak for protection, maybe the climate is a little cooler than what she's used to.

And wierd brews does not a witch make. She makes medecine to help other ponies.

[Manestream]

Ehh.....

I'm not sure that adding religion into Equestria is a good idea... slight politics is one thing with Princess Celestia, but I don't think we need to add something as complicated (and unnessecary in my opinion) as religion.

Coming from an objective standpoint, I agree with AquaDrop.

There is no mention of religion in the series. Celestia and Luna are "regal sisters", and (to my knowledge, i double checked and couldn't find anything) are not deities, or any type of extension of that train of thought. They are princesses, and they use their "unicorn powers" to raise the sun and moon.

Based on that, I would say that as far as cannon to the series, the Ponies go off of lore, not in this case religion which carries a very different set of ideas.

As MyLittlePonyTales suggested, I think the creation of lore during or before the Celestia/Luna era is completely up to you and anypony else; but I wouldn't introduce those concepts as religion. Even Zecora's differences are mentioned as cultural in the series. Religion is a whole different boat, it is not mentioned in the series, and should probably remain undetermined.

[Tam]

I keep trying to reply to this and this is my third well written reply that error/deleted so I'm going the simple path now. xD;

Ok, no religion sorry that I originally misread this. Manestream has the right idea, we're going with a fantasy aspect. A "lore" over religion. Stories and myths about the world around them. I'm currently working on a myth about a resting phoenix or something in Thunderhoove Volcano. And this thread reminds me to make a "Myth and Lore" suggestions area for people who might have neat ideas for legends, myths, and stories for the land marks on the map.

[Manestream]

I keep trying to reply to this and this is my third well written reply that error/deleted so I'm going the simple path now. xD;

I've come to copy every entry I write before I submit it; that way I never have to try to re-write something; it drives me nuts when I have to!

[Bramble Rose]

Adding my voice...

I don't see Celestia and Luna as deity figures in any conceivable way. I mean, sure, to *us* they seem to have that power... but we come from a world without magic. This is a world *steeped* in magic, where *every* pony has their own natural connection to controlling the world around them. Rising the sun in the morning, or the moon at night, is a natural extension of cleaning up winter for spring, or making the leaves fall in the autumn, or making the animals wake up from their hibernation, just on a larger scale.

But in our technological world, that'd be the equivelent of declaring that Tesla or Einstein was 'a diety' because they advanced science as much as they did, or had devices no one else did.

As for Celestia's long life and rulership...

In the Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is expected to live and rule for hundreds of years... and we don't consider him a deity figure. And they were obviously young 1000 years ago, since we can see that Luna, when she was bound, was a much smaller and younger pony, no bigger than the average pony, not yet fully grown into her Royal heritage.

As for what religions might exist... well, there are certain real-life religions that fit the series, and other religions that do not. Certainly ANY real-life religion would need to have a much 'milder' past to account for the different *feel* of the world that Friendship is Magic embodies.

And any religion created to fit the world specifically would be up to the individual creator.

[brianblackberry]

Adding my voice...

I don't see Celestia and Luna as deity figures in any conceivable way. I mean, sure, to *us* they seem to have that power... but we come from a world without magic. This is a world *steeped* in magic, where *every* pony has their own natural connection to controlling the world around them. Rising the sun in the morning, or the moon at night, is a natural extension of cleaning up winter for spring, or making the leaves fall in the autumn, or making the animals wake up from their hibernation, just on a larger scale.

But in our technological world, that'd be the equivelent of declaring that Tesla or Einstein was 'a diety' because they advanced science as much as they did, or had devices no one else did.

As for Celestia's long life and rulership...

In the Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is expected to live and rule for hundreds of years... and we don't consider him a deity figure. And they were obviously young 1000 years ago, since we can see that Luna, when she was bound, was a much smaller and younger pony, no bigger than the average pony, not yet fully grown into her Royal heritage.

As for what religions might exist... well, there are certain real-life religions that fit the series, and other religions that do not. Certainly ANY real-life religion would need to have a much 'milder' past to account for the different *feel* of the world that Friendship is Magic embodies.

And any religion created to fit the world specifically would be up to the individual creator.

Personally I am supportive of the idea of keeping actual religion out of the RP world here, even if in a fanfic sort of way such an idea could be interesting to explore. I believe the lore and magic generally found in FiM is certainly enough, and it is everywhere.

I often wonder if the Alipony are immortal or just live a very long time, since Celestia is a thousand years old at least since she was around to seal Luna in the first place for her thousand year imprisonment. Also wonder how many Alipony there really are?

[Manestream]

Personally I am supportive of the idea of keeping actual religion out of the RP world here, even if in a fanfic sort of way such an idea could be interesting to explore. I believe the lore and magic generally found in FiM is certainly enough, and it is everywhere.

I often wonder if the Alipony are immortal or just live a very long time, since Celestia is a thousand years old at least since she was around to seal Luna in the first place for her thousand year imprisonment. Also wonder how many Alipony there really are?

I wonder about this too, I'd really like to know whether or not being an Alipony/corn/unisus like Luna/Celestia is hereditary to the royal line, or if it is somehow a status that can be inherited by successors.

Granted, if Celestia and Luna have been around for 1000 years, and dont really show any sign of aging in either of their cases, that beats out the notion that they would need successors at all; but doesn't mean that they couldn't choose successors for if and when they do become tired of their respective responsibilities. I think I prefer this idea, as I'm a sucker for princess Twilight, and to me would offer more potential depth to the world rather than Luna/Celestia forever and always being alive.

Actually, now that I think about that, Celestia's lot has got to be a bit saddening; as it seems to be fairly established that other ponies do not live that long.

[brianblackberry]

I wonder about this too, I'd really like to know whether or not being an Alipony/corn/unisus like Luna/Celestia is hereditary to the royal line, or if it is somehow a status that can be inherited by successors.

Granted, if Celestia and Luna have been around for 1000 years, and dont really show any sign of aging in either of their cases, that beats out the notion that they would need successors at all; but doesn't mean that they couldn't choose successors for if and when they do become tired of their respective responsibilities. I think I prefer this idea, as I'm a sucker for princess Twilight, and to me would offer more potential depth to the world rather than Luna/Celestia forever and always being alive.

Actually, now that I think about that, Celestia's lot has got to be a bit saddening; as it seems to be fairly established that other ponies do not live that long.

It is possible there is an entire family, or even families of Alipony, each who influence or control an aspect of nature, even in an abstract way and Celestia with the Sun and Luna with the Moon is just two of them.

I will agree though it is likely only the Alipony have extremely long (or immortal) lives and it is possible other ponies live no longer than we as people do (or perhaps only even a horse's life span). It could be Celistia and Luna may someday have offspring they could pass off their responsibilities to, but those are most likely concepts and ideas far beyond the planned scope of FiM.

[Manestream]

It is possible there is an entire family, or even families of Alipony, each who influence or control an aspect of nature, even in an abstract way and Celestia with the Sun and Luna with the Moon is just two of them.

I really like the potential of that idea. Sort of an elder-equine/pony concept that there may be one for seasons, life, death, or elements. However, that immediately makes me wonder if some of them are no longer present or alive, or have abandoned their duties, or any other reason, as the ponies of ponyville are needed to change the weather cycles and seasons. Though, with evidence such as the everfree forest, perhaps other Aliponies control everything outside that sphere of non-influence.

I will agree though it is likely only the Alipony have extremely long (or immortal) lives and it is possible other ponies live no longer than we as people do (or perhaps only even a horse's life span). It could be Celistia and Luna may someday have offspring they could pass off their responsibilities to, but those are most likely concepts and ideas far beyond the planned scope of FiM.

Sadly, yes. I don't expect most of my questions to ever be answered, and even fewer of those to be answered in a manner that I would like. But, Faust has surprised me consistently- so I'll hold hope that even better things are yet to come.

[brianblackberry]

I really like the potential of that idea. Sort of an elder-equine/pony concept that there may be one for seasons, life, death, or elements. However, that immediately makes me wonder if some of them are no longer present or alive, or have abandoned their duties, or any other reason, as the ponies of ponyville are needed to change the weather cycles and seasons. Though, with evidence such as the everfree forest, perhaps other Aliponies control everything outside that sphere of non-influence.

That is an interesting concept. After all how do the seasons change in the ares outside of pony populated lands? Perhaps some alicorn(s) does it silently. Also like the idea of some abandoning their duties; perhaps there were many more alicorns int he deep past and they are fading away. Celestia and Luna could even be all who is left of the once former alicorn sub-species.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Perhaps once an Alipony gives birth, it starts to age again, and lives out its life. The child will then be the successor, by default.

[Manestream]

That is an interesting concept. After all how do the seasons change in the ares outside of pony populated lands? Perhaps some alicorn(s) does it silently. Also like the idea of some abandoning their duties; perhaps there were many more alicorns int he deep past and they are fading away. Celestia and Luna could even be all who is left of the once former alicorn sub-species.

This is the feeling I get from the series, that they are likely the last of their kind, or at least even the royals of their own sub-species (which, its pretty clear that they are.) Perhaps other alicorns are fading away, or becoming unstable for whatever reason- and thus a thousand years ago Celestia and Luna (pre-argument) decided that the land that was suffering without the benefits of the other alicorns needed to be monitored, and they established Canterlot, and taught the pony sub-species how to tend to the land on their own (in the stead of the dwindling alicorn presence).

Perhaps once an Alipony gives birth, it starts to age again, and lives out its life. The child will then be the successor, by default.

This, is better than any reasoning/idea I could come up with; it lends a mortality to Celestia and Luna; some type of limit to their abilities and lifespan. They have to either shoulder the burden of their celestial and lunar responsibilities; or give them up to live a different life (to have a family, or whatnot), they have to shrug off that longevity, and produce some type of heir to their position.

[Bramble Rose]

Granted, if Celestia and Luna have been around for 1000 years, and dont really show any sign of aging in either of their cases

Except that ... there is some pretty good evidence that they aged. Look at Luna's state - she tried to artificially age herself up with her dark power, but she's reverted to her younger age once her dark power was broken.

Discussion on Royals

What I'm doing for my fanfic is I'm building up a whole royal family - one whose responsibility is to raise the mountains, control the flow of magma... four who are responsible for the seasons... that sort of thing. then I'm assigning them positions - one as the Lord General, one as the Ruler of Cloudsdale, etc.

[Skye]

If all the ponies live an incredibly long time, all with the same lifespan, and knowing that Celestia is over a thousand years old, then...

Granny Smith must be the oldest pony alive next to Kitty!

[Manestream]

Except that ... there is some pretty good evidence that they aged. Look at Luna's state - she tried to artificially age herself up with her dark power, but she's reverted to her younger age once her dark power was broken.

I'm not entirely sold that evidence of them reversing in age is evidence that theyve aged- for all anyone knows their appearance could be a representation of how much power they currently hold. If Luna was stripped of some power, or partially sealed, then that would explain her regression in appearance of age.

Perhaps I'm assuming too much, but when I think of Celestia and Luna, I have the impression that they are nearly the same age- just Luna was born second. Like twins, so to speak. If they had dual responsibility to raise the sun and moon, wouldn't they both have to be relatively the same age to start trading cycles?

I suppose its possible if Luna and Celestia inherited their abilities.

[Skye]

Except that ... there is some pretty good evidence that they aged. Look at Luna's state - she tried to artificially age herself up with her dark power, but she's reverted to her younger age once her dark power was broken.

I'm not entirely sold that evidence of them reversing in age is evidence that theyve aged- for all anyone knows their appearance could be a representation of how much power they currently hold. If Luna was stripped of some power, or partially sealed, then that would explain her regression in appearance of age.

Perhaps I'm assuming too much, but when I think of Celestia and Luna, I have the impression that they are nearly the same age- just Luna was born second. Like twins, so to speak. If they had dual responsibility to raise the sun and moon, wouldn't they both have to be relatively the same age to start trading cycles?

I suppose its possible if Luna and Celestia inherited their abilities.

I thik Luna was just returned to the age she was when she turned into Nightmare Moon. Coversely, in the legend, both Celestia and Luna appeared to be the same size until she turned into Nightmare Moon, which could then mean that Celestia has since aged over time until she's become the leggy pony she is now, as did Nightmare Moon. But the Magic of Friendship regressed Luna to back before she became bitter and turned into Nightmare Moon while Celestia (who had done nothing to require getting hit with the magic) remained her elapsed age.

[Manestream]

I thik Luna was just returned to the age she was when she turned into Nightmare Moon. Coversely, in the legend, both Celestia and Luna appeared to be the same size until she turned into Nightmare Moon, which could then mean that Celestia has since aged over time until she's become the leggy pony she is now, as did Nightmare Moon. But the Magic of Friendship regressed Luna to back before she became bitter and turned into Nightmare Moon while Celestia (who had done nothing to require getting hit with the magic) remained her elapsed age.

This is more agreeable; but the opening of the show still shows both Celestia and Luna appearing as closer to adults- but perhaps thats just the 'lore' in Twilights book. That would seem to be an explanation that works

[Skye]

I thik Luna was just returned to the age she was when she turned into Nightmare Moon. Coversely, in the legend, both Celestia and Luna appeared to be the same size until she turned into Nightmare Moon, which could then mean that Celestia has since aged over time until she's become the leggy pony she is now, as did Nightmare Moon. But the Magic of Friendship regressed Luna to back before she became bitter and turned into Nightmare Moon while Celestia (who had done nothing to require getting hit with the magic) remained her elapsed age.

This is more agreeable; but the opening of the show still shows both Celestia and Luna appearing as closer to adults- but perhaps thats just the 'lore' in Twilights book. That would seem to be an explanation that works

Well, I'd think that back then, they looked like adults, but were really fillies together. Assume they looked like the rest of the FiM cast then, and since have grown. Perhaps one day Twilight could look like that, or maybe it's only unisus's that do.