Equestrian Religion

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Except that ... there is some pretty good evidence that they aged. Look at Luna's state - she tried to artificially age herself up with her dark power, but she's reverted to her younger age once her dark power was broken.

I'm not entirely sold that evidence of them reversing in age is evidence that theyve aged- for all anyone knows their appearance could be a representation of how much power they currently hold. If Luna was stripped of some power, or partially sealed, then that would explain her regression in appearance of age.

Perhaps I'm assuming too much, but when I think of Celestia and Luna, I have the impression that they are nearly the same age- just Luna was born second. Like twins, so to speak. If they had dual responsibility to raise the sun and moon, wouldn't they both have to be relatively the same age to start trading cycles?

I suppose its possible if Luna and Celestia inherited their abilities.

Perhaps they stop aging after they reach a certain point. Or, technically, they could just be using different healing spells on themselves to regenerate parts of their body at a time, and thus remain immortal, yet normal.

I think that Celestia and Luna are very close in age, however, I do not believe they are twins, nor were they born in the same year. I do think they were born close together, within the span of a few years, but not at the same time.

[brianblackberry]

That is an interesting concept. After all how do the seasons change in the ares outside of pony populated lands? Perhaps some alicorn(s) does it silently. Also like the idea of some abandoning their duties; perhaps there were many more alicorns int he deep past and they are fading away. Celestia and Luna could even be all who is left of the once former alicorn sub-species.

This is the feeling I get from the series, that they are likely the last of their kind, or at least even the royals of their own sub-species (which, its pretty clear that they are.) Perhaps other alicorns are fading away, or becoming unstable for whatever reason- and thus a thousand years ago Celestia and Luna (pre-argument) decided that the land that was suffering without the benefits of the other alicorns needed to be monitored, and they established Canterlot, and taught the pony sub-species how to tend to the land on their own (in the stead of the dwindling alicorn presence).

That would be an interesting concept, even if I doubt the Alicorns will be explored in such a way in the series. It would almost be like Battle Galactica that way where the Lords of Kobal are all gone and humans basically take over and run everything themselves. In Equestria's case, Unicrons for the delicate and sophisticated jobs, Pegasus for the weather and the sky, and Earth ponies for the land and food.

Perhaps once an Alipony gives birth, it starts to age again, and lives out its life. The child will then be the successor, by default.

This, is better than any reasoning/idea I could come up with; it lends a mortality to Celestia and Luna; some type of limit to their abilities and lifespan. They have to either shoulder the burden of their celestial and lunar responsibilities; or give them up to live a different life (to have a family, or whatnot), they have to shrug off that longevity, and produce some type of heir to their position.

That is also a cool idea, as it is possible they would become weary of their current responsibilities, it make also be physically draining over the centuries. The idea of moving on to a quiet life as matriarchs and passing the responsibilities off to offspring is a cool one. Maybe soemthing that only happens every thousand years or so?

[Bramble Rose]

Which really brings us back to Tolkien, the Royals being pretty much like the elves, or elf-blooded such as Aragorn.

Hrm. Royals taking the grey ships across the sea...

[JabberwockyPie]

I'd like to preface this with saying that religion in RP can be a very unwise idea, as others have said.

I don't think the Tolkien elf comparison is quite right, though. If anything they're more like the Maiar. No, wait, the Valar. (The Morgoth story sort of matches up to Luna in a way.) Aaaand, I'm going to stop my Silmarillion geekery right there.

There's a Terry Pratchett quote about how witches and wizards (Discworld is a high-magic fantasy setting) just know the gods exist but they know they exist the same way a table exists, but you don't go around saying "Oh great and mighty table, how we'd be lost without you!" and praying to it.

That's sort of how I see Celestia and Luna being to the average pony. Sure, they raise the sun and moon, but that's just something they DO. You can see them around Equestria doing . . . Princess stuff. It's pretty important, but it's also just the sort of what anypony does on a much much MUCH larger scale. Fluttershy takes care of small animals in and near Ponyville, Cloudsdale has a weather factory, and the Princesses create night and day for ALL OF EQUESTRIA. I do think they're supposed to be supernatural and not just normal ponies (almost deities) of some kind and probably immortal, but more as protectors or care-takers than something to be worshipped.

If anything I would see ponies as having a strong respect and reverence for nature - some probably more than others - but not formalized prayers or worship. I seem to recall a lot of "Great rainbow!" etc in the old cartoon about the Rainbow of Light, but this is a whole new canon and the ponies can make rainbows (or at least the ordinary kind - that was totally the Rainbow of Light in the first episode and that's a special magic rainbow).

[Manestream]

That would be an interesting concept, even if I doubt the Alicorns will be explored in such a way in the series. It would almost be like Battle Galactica that way where the Lords of Kobal are all gone and humans basically take over and run everything themselves. In Equestria's case, Unicrons for the delicate and sophisticated jobs, Pegasus for the weather and the sky, and Earth ponies for the land and food.

I know that there is no pre-history due to ease of management, and the series has to start somewhere, so a lack of history doesn't mean its not known to the ponies, but rather its not relevant to the current story at hand; but that logic aside, the 'lost history' always makes such an interesting place for story generation. And really, where are the other alicorns? What was Celestia's/Luna's mother/father like? who raised the sun and moon before them? Or 1000 years ago the beginning of Equestria, and nothing existed prior but untamed lands with neither day or night?

That is also a cool idea, as it is possible they would become weary of their current responsibilities, it make also be physically draining over the centuries. The idea of moving on to a quiet life as matriarchs and passing the responsibilities off to offspring is a cool one. Maybe soemthing that only happens every thousand years or so?

Mayhaps. This always brings Twilight's role back into question- just exactly what is she a student for? To succeed Celestia entirely? Or, a student of magic alone? How many students does Celestia have?

[MyLittlePonyTales]

This always brings Twilight's role back into question- just exactly what is she a student for? To succeed Celestia entirely? Or, a student of magic alone? How many students does Celestia have?

Well, Twilight's friends could be students as well, but that doesn't mean they were taught by Celestia. Having multiple students would be tough for her, since she also has to rule over Equestria and handle any major problems that come up. She's not a exactly a teacher, she's a ruler.

Is it any coincidence that Twilight is the time before the sun rises and after the sun sets, but when it's still light out?

[Manestream]

This always brings Twilight's role back into question- just exactly what is she a student for? To succeed Celestia entirely? Or, a student of magic alone? How many students does Celestia have?

Well, Twilight's friends could be students as well, but that doesn't mean they were taught by Celestia. Having multiple students would be tough for her, since she also has to rule over Equestria and handle any major problems that come up. She's not a exactly a teacher, she's a ruler.

Is it any coincidence that Twilight is the time before the sun rises and after the sun sets, but when it's still light out?

I think the name implication and the student status is why people see Twilight as the next potential ruler of Equestria; because she seems the bill.

Celestia says "Twilight, my most faithful student," that's why I wonder the context in which she's speaking. Is that just another way of her to say subject? or... what exactly? She lived in Canterlot with Celestia, she was studying magic, just we dont know to what end :3

[MyLittlePonyTales]

I think Twilight was being personally tutored by Celestia. Perhaps Celestia wanted something more to do with the Equesterian populace, so she took on a student as a side project. Also, if she is buddy-buddy with a regular member of society, it can help her see from the eyes of regular pony, someone who is among the people. She can be closer to her subjects, without intruding into their daily lives.

[Manestream]

I think Twilight was being personally tutored by Celestia. Perhaps Celestia wanted something more to do with the Equesterian populace, so she took on a student as a side project. Also, if she is buddy-buddy with a regular member of society, it can help her see from the eyes of regular pony, someone who is among the people. She can be closer to her subjects, without intruding into their daily lives.

That seems to be a very commonsense answer; it seems to fit the series best too as it doesnt assume anything out of the ordinary, or hidden motives. I think i'm personally hung up with the idea of Twilight being groomed as a successor, all because of that art of 'princess' Twilight.

[brianblackberry]

I think Twilight was being personally tutored by Celestia. Perhaps Celestia wanted something more to do with the Equesterian populace, so she took on a student as a side project. Also, if she is buddy-buddy with a regular member of society, it can help her see from the eyes of regular pony, someone who is among the people. She can be closer to her subjects, without intruding into their daily lives.

That seems to be a very commonsense answer; it seems to fit the series best too as it doesnt assume anything out of the ordinary, or hidden motives. I think i'm personally hung up with the idea of Twilight being groomed as a successor, all because of that art of 'princess' Twilight.

Well we know unicorns all have magical power, but perhaps among the unicorns there are those few individuals who's specialty is magic itself and not merely having magic for the sake of merely supporting their special talent, and these are the most powerful magical users. Celestia (or the alicorns in general) may take special interesting in them and thus train or mentor them to reach their full potential as powerful magic users, Twilight being one of those with this special rare gift (perhaps the only one at this time). I image there could be others (heck, perhaps even Trixi, but unlike Twilight, she cannot see and thus reach her potential because of her personality flaws and her current inability to overcome them).

[Manestream]

Well we know unicorns all have magical power, but perhaps among the unicorns there are those few individuals who's specialty is magic itself and not merely having magic for the sake of merely supporting their special talent, and these are the most powerful magical users. Celestia (or the alicorns in general) may take special interesting in them and thus train or mentor them to reach their full potential as powerful magic users, Twilight being one of those with this special rare gift (perhaps the only one at this time). I image there could be others (heck, perhaps even Trixi, but unlike Twilight, she cannot see and thus reach her potential because of her personality flaws and her current inability to overcome them).

Mmm, also very well put. I had guessed that Trixi's talent was actually parlor tricks, as opposed to genuine magic, unlike Twilight who's cutie mark suggests that her strength *is* the 6th element, magic. Someone mentioned earlier that Twilight's cutie mark was a star with five other small shining stars around it, as if it was a representation of the elements of harmony. Since the 6th, and Twilight's element, is magic; it would follow that Twilight's true talent *is* magic, unlike Trixie, where even the name suggests that her talent is tricks.

Twilight does appear to be the only one in the series who possesses an extraordinary gift revolving around the elements of harmony. I'm not sure where that places Celestia/Luna, who also have very unique/rare gifts of their own.

[brianblackberry]

Mmm, also very well put. I had guessed that Trixi's talent was actually parlor tricks, as opposed to genuine magic, unlike Twilight who's cutie mark suggests that her strength *is* the 6th element, magic. Someone mentioned earlier that Twilight's cutie mark was a star with five other small shining stars around it, as if it was a representation of the elements of harmony. Since the 6th, and Twilight's element, is magic; it would follow that Twilight's true talent *is* magic, unlike Trixie, where even the name suggests that her talent is tricks.

Twilight does appear to be the only one in the series who possesses an extraordinary gift revolving around the elements of harmony. I'm not sure where that places Celestia/Luna, who also have very unique/rare gifts of their own.

It could be that Trixi's power is no more that based on parlor tricks, although it would be more interesting it was based on the magic of illusion control. I always wondered if Trixi actually changed Rarity's hair to that green bird's nest or just gave the illusion that she did (and thus have the potential to cloud minds). In addition to general telekinesis she seems to be able to control "objects" like rainbows, which normally only Pegasi could. Yet again, it could be all parlor tricks, it just be cool from a story point if she had something much more to her ability.

I definitely noticed Twilight's mark as being directly related to the Elements of Harmony, so I suppose it was always her "destiny" from the start to do this and have magic itself be her specialty.

[Manestream]

It could be that Trixi's power is no more that based on parlor tricks, although it would be more interesting it was based on the magic of illusion control. I always wondered if Trixi actually changed Rarity's hair to that green bird's nest or just gave the illusion that she did (and thus have the potential to cloud minds). In addition to general telekinesis she seems to be able to control "objects" like rainbows, which normally only Pegasi could. Yet again, it could be all parlor tricks, it just be cool from a story point if she had something much more to her ability.

I definitely noticed Twilight's mark as being directly related to the Elements of Harmony, so I suppose it was always her "destiny" from the start to do this and have magic itself be her specialty.

That is a cooler interpretation of Trixi's ability; though it would go beyond just illusion; she was able to manipulate things like rainbows. When she fought the Ursa Minor, it seemed that her magic lacked a lot of umph; but had lots of flexibility.

[Peregrine]

In regards to religion and mythology in the context of this little playworld, I'd have to advise against it. I quote Peter Molyneux on religion: "If I include religion in my games, I'll either offend someone with my ignorance, or insult them with my irreverence." Unless you're fashioning a world personally a la Tolkien in which you purposefully want it dominated by the One God, or a more dualistic setting a la Robert Jordan, its best to just leave it a blank mystery. Seeing as how this is not our world, and many, many of us are screwing around with it, the most agreeable choice to all those involved would be to simply leave it a mystery, don't you think?

For that matter I definitely see deific parallels in the idea of Celestia. She even refers to twilight as "her faithful student," which is of course awfully close to the commonly used Christian line "Well done my good and faithful servant." However, seeing as how it is indeed a children's show, I would be willing to surmise that Celestia was simply intended to be magical royalty, and nothing more. We can observe that she displays multiple traits lacking divinity, such as vulnerability, as we saw in Sonic Rainboom where she shrunk away from that cloud splat that hit her throne, and that she could be conquered by her little sister, and a lack of immortality given that her sister is obviously younger than her and can age. It is far more likely that she is just similar to the pegasi in the sense that her job is a control over the astronomical aspects of nature and her access to magic allows her to lift the sun and the moon.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Depending on how much magical ability one has, perhaps Celestia just uses healing spells to continually keep herself the same age. That would mean that she is as vulnerable as any other pony.

[Peregrine]

Depending on how much magical ability one has, perhaps Celestia just uses healing spells to continually keep herself the same age. That would mean that she is as vulnerable as any other pony.

Well the problem with that is that she would still eventually fade. If she were a being of fallible flesh then she would still begin to break down over time, because she'd be subject to the laws of entropy. The healing energy would still be coming from a being who is indeed slowly perishing, so she would receive diminishing returns slowly as her spells grew weaker.It'd be like trying to fill a bucket further with the water that's already in the bucket, y'know? The water doesn't get any higher, and still evaporates over time.

She would either need to be siphoning energy from an outer source, or be immortal already.

[Skye]

Depending on how much magical ability one has, perhaps Celestia just uses healing spells to continually keep herself the same age. That would mean that she is as vulnerable as any other pony.

Well the problem with that is that she would still eventually fade. If she were a being of fallible flesh then she would still begin to break down over time, because she'd be subject to the laws of entropy. The healing energy would still be coming from a being who is indeed slowly perishing, so she would receive diminishing returns slowly as her spells grew weaker.It'd be like trying to fill a bucket further with the water that's already in the bucket, y'know? The water doesn't get any higher, and still evaporates over time.

She would either need to be siphoning energy from an outer source, or be immortal already.

Wow, this is a depressing thought. ;_;

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Depending on how much magical ability one has, perhaps Celestia just uses healing spells to continually keep herself the same age. That would mean that she is as vulnerable as any other pony.

Well the problem with that is that she would still eventually fade. If she were a being of fallible flesh then she would still begin to break down over time, because she'd be subject to the laws of entropy. The healing energy would still be coming from a being who is indeed slowly perishing, so she would receive diminishing returns slowly as her spells grew weaker.It'd be like trying to fill a bucket further with the water that's already in the bucket, y'know? The water doesn't get any higher, and still evaporates over time.

She would either need to be siphoning energy from an outer source, or be immortal already.

Ya, the body breaks down over time. She would only be able to heal herself bits at a time. But, as said, depending on the type of spells available, she could perhaps use age reversal on her body.

Or maybe it's just like Tuck Everlasting.

[Peregrine]

Depending on how much magical ability one has, perhaps Celestia just uses healing spells to continually keep herself the same age. That would mean that she is as vulnerable as any other pony.

Well the problem with that is that she would still eventually fade. If she were a being of fallible flesh then she would still begin to break down over time, because she'd be subject to the laws of entropy. The healing energy would still be coming from a being who is indeed slowly perishing, so she would receive diminishing returns slowly as her spells grew weaker.It'd be like trying to fill a bucket further with the water that's already in the bucket, y'know? The water doesn't get any higher, and still evaporates over time.

She would either need to be siphoning energy from an outer source, or be immortal already.

Ya, the body breaks down over time. She would only be able to heal herself bits at a time. But, as said, depending on the type of spells available, she could perhaps use age reversal on her body.

Or maybe it's just like Tuck Everlasting.

Yes, but to cause that kind of regeneration she would need to draw energy from an outer source, and convert it into a spell that could reverse the degeneration of her cellular structure. She logically could not do that from herself. If this was the case, she'd need some sort of well of eternity, or other object to continually renew her lifespan.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Yes, but to cause that kind of regeneration she would need to draw energy from an outer source, and convert it into a spell that could reverse the degeneration of her cellular structure. She logically could not do that from herself. If this was the case, she'd need some sort of well of eternity, or other object to continually renew her lifespan.

Celestia draws her energy from the sun.

[Peregrine]

Yes, but to cause that kind of regeneration she would need to draw energy from an outer source, and convert it into a spell that could reverse the degeneration of her cellular structure. She logically could not do that from herself. If this was the case, she'd need some sort of well of eternity, or other object to continually renew her lifespan.

Celestia draws her energy from the sun.

Was that stated somewhere? I never saw that. I only saw that she raised the sun. If she does do that then one could argue that she could last as long as the sun lasted.

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Yes, but to cause that kind of regeneration she would need to draw energy from an outer source, and convert it into a spell that could reverse the degeneration of her cellular structure. She logically could not do that from herself. If this was the case, she'd need some sort of well of eternity, or other object to continually renew her lifespan.

Celestia draws her energy from the sun.

Was that stated somewhere? I never saw that. I only saw that she raised the sun. If she does do that then one could argue that she could last as long as the sun lasted.

Well, it never says how she's immortal, or just how immortal she is, that's why we're having this discussion .

I'm just saying, if she needs an energy source in order to fuel her magic to cast spells to make herself younger, the sun is pretty much an endless energy supply.

[Peregrine]

Well, it never says how she's immortal, or just how immortal she is, that's why we're having this discussion .

I'm just saying, if she needs an energy source in order to fuel her magic to cast spells to make herself younger, the sun is pretty much an endless energy supply.

Then again since friendship IS magic, she could just feed off of happiness like some kind of overbloated emotional tick.

8D

[MyLittlePonyTales]

Well, it never says how she's immortal, or just how immortal she is, that's why we're having this discussion .

I'm just saying, if she needs an energy source in order to fuel her magic to cast spells to make herself younger, the sun is pretty much an endless energy supply.

Then again since friendship IS magic, she could just feed off of happiness like some kind of overbloated emotional tick.

8D

She feeds off the souls of Equestria.

[Hippo]

Well, it never says how she's immortal, or just how immortal she is, that's why we're having this discussion .

I'm just saying, if she needs an energy source in order to fuel her magic to cast spells to make herself younger, the sun is pretty much an endless energy supply.

Then again since friendship IS magic, she could just feed off of happiness like some kind of overbloated emotional tick.

8D

She feeds off the souls of Equestria.

Well. Sounds like we got a great idea for a new RP.