S02EP21 - "Dragon Quest"

[kunio18]

this episode was amazing, i think season two is getting better each time a new episode comes along, there was so much humor and love in this one. it was really good how the ponys relationships towards spike span out across in this one, 10 /10 from kunio

[ShaleCrow]

I am squeeing over the phoenixes. SUCH PRETTY COLOURS! Seriously, the dragon chase scene with them was awesome.

Rarity was a little annoying at the beginning of the episode, but her characterization picked up again after the first scene.

Bully dragons? Kinda predictable. I was thinking along those lines when I saw the teaser summary on Wikipedia, and that was confirmed as soon as I actually saw the teenage dragons.

Spike's pet phoenix is so cute. I don't think what he did was stealing. From what I can tell, the parents pretty much went "We're going to have to move nest to get away from those dragons, the loss of one egg is acceptable compared to possibly losing all the hatchlings going back to get a rotten egg." Though of course, that's assuming phoenixes follow the laws of actual nature, as opposed to cutesy/disney nature.

I'm now going to re-watch the phoenix chase scene. Again.

[BlackJack]

It was pretty cute, and Crackle was pretty funny. I liked the Albino dragon too. I really wish at least one of those other dragons was even semi-friendly. It really doesn't give Spike an opportunity to identify with his Dragon-self at all. Hope his little Phoenix comes back though. Also wish Tank would make another appearance too, though...All in all a cute episode, but I wish Spike could be proud of being a dragon.

[Kirby Krackle]

AHHHHH he kept the egg! CUTE!

[DosEquus]

Lore. Lore everywhere.

Loved the episode. Interesting to see that dragons live by a class-based hierarchy of strength and dominance. It seems that there's some bad blood between dragons and pheonixes. I also love how Spike seems to be even more of a special dragon.

The only downside was how quickly Spike was cast aside even though he was made into a Rookie Dragon. I'd have liked to see that title have a little more meaning, since it seems that to be given the rank would mean they were respected by the dragons, even if they weren't one.

[Dessa]

I see this episode as a metaphor for the gender struggle some fans (younger male fans in particular) might face.

Spike, the only major male character in the show, is certainly more masculine than most his pony friends (save Dash or AJ), but he starts the episode being admired for his feminine traits. He's show n here as kind and nurturing and gentle, and so cute (the frilly apron was a particularly literal reflection of his femininity). His MASCULINE traits are downplayed, and even belittled, by the ponies (I'm lookin at YOU, Dash), and he finds that threatening. Cue gender expression crisis.

Spike seeks to assert his identity as Not Pony (in this metaphor, not female or feminine), and he sets out to find those big, tough dragons that even Rainbow Dash begrudgingly admitted were fierce. When he finally arrives at his destination, he's spent so much time around ponies (and comfortably so), that he finds it hard to fit in with the dragons.

I should take a moment here to explain what I find masculine about the dragons. Yes, there's the competetiveness and brashness, but even looking beyond that, there's a certain thing they do that's really common among groups of men (one I remember from my own time spent as a man): The idea that femininity is a sign of weakness, and should be discouraged. I find that most men, when taken individually, don't really do this so much, but GROUPS of men -- peer obsessed teenagers in particular -- tend toward this a lot more. I could go on and on about this, but I'll save it for another thread.

SPike, in the midst of his identity crisis, seeks to show himself as like the other dragons, but never really fits in. He just isn't like those other dragons. This comes to a head when he comes across behavior he just can't abide by. He realizes that he's never going to be like them. That he likes being the gentle, caring dragon that he is. In the end, he realizes that his feminine traits are a STRENGTH.

Previous to this episode, Spike has often taken special pains to point out how he's not girly like all those ponies. Secretly, he wanted to go to the Gala, but he wanted everyone to know that was girl's stuff that he wasn't into. Which isn't to say that Spike doesn't truly enjoy being the boy of the group either. After all, in his visions (man-spike), he imagines himself to be the macho-saviour of the group. Huge and strapping -- the type of man that all the ladies would admire. He stands in front of the mirror flexing and posing in a very masculine way. But until now, he only seemed to express pride about his masculine traits, and downplayed his feminine ones (and failing that, seemed to be in denial that he had them at all -- like his not realizing the apron he wore was feminine). What he learned in this episode is that not only does this femininity not threaten him, but that he's openly PROUD of the fact. He can do feminine things and still be a boy.

Viewed through the lens of this metaphor, I found it a wonderful ouepisode, and I wonder if any of the shows younger male audience took this message to heart. I imagine a young boy watching this episode might appreciate the affirmation of his identity in the face of all this girly pony stuff.

Keep in mind, dear readers, that those adults among you might not need the affirmation. Being adults means that many of you have already gotten through many of your adolescent identity crises. This episode wasn't written for US. It was written for the kids.

Which isn't to say I don't think the episode fails in some places. It's not the best episode this season by a long stretch, and the storytelling fails even if the moral is well developed. But all in all, I really liked this episode.

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Wait, wait... What if Spike really is half pony, and thats why he doesn't have any wings.

Those teenage dragons were a pretty accurate depiction of what my childhood was like. I guess its notable that the other older dragons were just chilling and sitting around the whole time, not really acting the same way as the teenage dragons. It doesn't surprise me that they'd disregard a letter from Celestia, because for people like that, image is more important than reality.

Popularity contests aren't really based on anything tangible. Its just about who can make a bigger, fancier show.

I can't really view masculine and feminine in the typical north american way because I've lived outside that framework and I know very certainly just how subjective those two terms are. What people think counts as masculine and feminine changes (sometimes drastically) from culture to culture. Whenever people start saying "masculine is this, and feminine is that," I just have to shrug my shoulders because it never matches up with my personal experience. "Who I am is not the same as what I am," is right on the money in my book. You shouldn't let other people define or frame who you are if it makes you feel bad about yourself.

I really appreciated that they removed the moral a step from the masculine/feminine (false) dichotomy. Because of that, they were able to throw in racial undertones and take a look at some things that were more objectively right and wrong, like the difference between using someone else to make yourself feel good and going out of your way to help a friend. Spike's own experience of being helpless and cared for by others gets thrust into the spotlight big time.

Favorite Parts:

• Fluttershy jumping out the window. *squeak*

• Spike not being able to sleep and Twilight helping him out by searching the whole library. *tears up* Friendship really is magic...

• "I've done lots of nutty things." "We know."

• "We're following him right?" "Of course." I laughed so much right there.

• Epic journey montage! I hope someone remixes that track. (also, riding a mountain goat!)

• "That's crackle's cousin."

• Phoenix chase scene... that whole thing was totally amazing. Like really extra amazing. Phoenixes are no pushovers.

• Twilight failing her first attempt at the teleport spell. It was almost surprising that they spent an extra few seconds doing that.

[cuddrefeeshbrony]

this was an ideal episode on my behalf, not exactly a big spike fan but it was very interesting to see him do some soul searching. it just goes to show you how the creators have every intention to create an actual show and not just a dry marketing campaing for little girls lol. definitely made up for last weeks lackluser episode

[tacobob]

Spike probably would have had better luck with dragons his own age, but I guess those dragons would still be nesting.

[RarityDash]

Despite Rarity and Dash, I wasn't entirely sure I liked this episode that much, but Dessa's post makes me respect it a lot more. If that was indeed the writer's intentions (and it really makes sense to me that it is), that's really a pretty cool lesson for the show to take on.

Still wouldn't say it's the strongest episode in other respects, but I admire it a little more now.

[ShaleCrow]

I have to agree with Ginger Mint and Dessa with the possible masculine/feminine moral. I kinda like how they didn't directly make it that moral, because that means that there's other things it could apply to. For example, it could mean for somepony "I can be in the 'dumbo' class and not be dumb."

I kinda wished that this episode was around for me when I was a little kid, so I could watch it. Not that I would of course, because when I was a little kid I had an irrational hatred of all things 'feminine'. I think it was because my little kindergartner brain took "I am a girl who likes boyish things instead of girlish things, and that's okay," and went a little too far with it till it became "ALL GIRLY THINGS MUST BE DESTROYED". I also think the whole "Girls should be beautiful, guys should be smart" was getting too me. I still don't like the idea that girls should be beautiful and not smart, but I've developed a thicker skin for it, and I've redirected my anger toward the idea itself, as opposed the 'girly' things. I still wish I could of watched this episode to speed that process up, pity you could've never got me to watch it.

When you think about it, Spike could be half pony. His head is very similar to the standard female pony head. But then again, how could a pony and a dragon crossbreed and produce viable offspring? Personally, I think that there might be more than one type of dragon, and Spike might be different kind compared to the teenage ones we saw. There’s also the fact that Spike’s growth and the stages he goes through in Secret of My Excess look very different and go much faster than the teenage dragons we saw. There’s also the fact that he has no wings, and never got any when he temporarily grew up. I think that there might be Flying Dragons and Land Dragons, both of them having very different life cycles, and Spike is a Land Dragon as opposed to the Flying Dragons like the ones we saw.

[SirShadowdeath]

I liked that one.

Highlights:

1. Assertive Fluttershy!?

2. Arrogant Teenage Dragons

3. Phoenixes!

Also...Brace yourself...

The Rarity x Spike shipping is coming again.

[TheBeatlesPkmnFan42]

It was nice to see Spike getting another episode. I wish Fluttershy was in it more besides only the first scene. Rarity's dragon costume was halarous. I love how she thought it was one of the best works when it's actually her downright worst.

I don't know about this episode. Lots to like about it, but also, some of it left me confused.

SO, the 'Great Dragon Migration' is all about a bunch of dragons flying away just to sit around a huge crater?

It was probably a resting point.

[Dessa]

Well, in response to what ginger pointed out about masculine and feminine having much to do with context, I think that's a strength here. Since the episodes message was converyed via metaphor, it allows the viewer leeway to interpret this in ways that apply to their lives.

In regards to what shalecrow said about rejecting feminine things (even as she was a girl), I think this is something society as a whole does. And something this show, not just this episode, but this WHOLE SHOW, challenges. One of Fausts major themes or theses here is that femininity is awesome. It's not something often acnkowledged or defended. Even old-school feminists seem not to recognize this (although younger, more modern feminists are very hip to it).

[Ginger Mint]

hi hi

Its not just different interpretations of masculine and feminine. From my perspective, they also tackled some ethnic stereotyping issues that crop up in places like the United States where there can be a lot of racial tension. There are lots of examples in television and movies where certain ethnic groups (african american or latino especially) are portrayed as acting a certain way, speaking a certain way, valuing certain things opposed to others. But in the episode, we find that there's nothing in particular about being a dragon that makes the teen dragon lifestyle better for Spike than the ponyville lifestyle, and nothing made the dragons any more suited to acting the way they did than being a pony made Rainbow Dash more suited to giving Spike a hard time about who he was.

When subcultures form, they often create their own differences just for the purpose of distinguishing themselves from everyone else.

[SirShadowdeath]

hi hi

Its not just different interpretations of masculine and feminine. From my perspective, they also tackled some ethnic stereotyping issues that crop up in places like the United States where there can be a lot of racial tension. There are lots of examples in television and movies where certain ethnic groups (african american or latino especially) are portrayed as acting a certain way, speaking a certain way, valuing certain things opposed to others. But in the episode, we find that there's nothing in particular about being a dragon that makes the teen dragon lifestyle better for Spike than the ponyville lifestyle, and nothing made the dragons any more suited to acting the way they did than being a pony made Rainbow Dash more suited to giving Spike a hard time about who he was.

When subcultures form, they often create their own differences just for the purpose of distinguishing themselves from everyone else.

[Kirby Krackle]

I'm going to say a little that this show is about adoption. I do not have the wits about me right now to prove my point, but when I watched it, I saw it. And I said, "I've been there, Spike. You get used to it."

[Rosewind]

Just got around to watching this now, and it definitely blew me away. Plenty of laugh out loud moments. "That's Crackle's cousin." was hilarious!

I noticed some of the dragon designs gave a nod to How to Train Your Dragon; the brown teen dragon's tail reminded me of a Gronkle.

Interesting to see CDD was in the journey montage. Maybe Spike has a new pet now? It'll be interesting to see if there will be continuity with the hatchling.

Definitely one of my favorite episodes of the season. It was really well made. The resonance and chemistry between Twilight/Rarity/RD was surprising, refreshing, and done perfectly. I think Merriweather redeemed herself from MMDW!

[Dessa]

hi hi

Its not just different interpretations of masculine and feminine. From my perspective, they also tackled some ethnic stereotyping issues that crop up in places like the United States where there can be a lot of racial tension. There are lots of examples in television and movies where certain ethnic groups (african american or latino especially) are portrayed as acting a certain way, speaking a certain way, valuing certain things opposed to others. But in the episode, we find that there's nothing in particular about being a dragon that makes the teen dragon lifestyle better for Spike than the ponyville lifestyle, and nothing made the dragons any more suited to acting the way they did than being a pony made Rainbow Dash more suited to giving Spike a hard time about who he was.

When subcultures form, they often create their own differences just for the purpose of distinguishing themselves from everyone else.

Mmm, quite.

[Rosewind]

Disagreeing with Ginger is hard, if not impossible, so I'm just going to leave this here.

[RarityDash]

I'm going to say a little that this show is about adoption. I do not have the wits about me right now to prove my point, but when I watched it, I saw it. And I said, "I've been there, Spike. You get used to it."

Yeah, the adoption parallel is the main way I read the moral the first time I watched it. In all the stuff about Spike's friends being his family at the end and the clear comparison drawn between Twilight taking him in as an egg and him taking in the phoenix hatchling, it definitely appeared to be going for a theme of accepting the family you have now. I still think the masculine/feminine/cultural groups thing was an intended theme too though. Makes for a rather morally complex episode by FIM standards.

Which is good, I think. I mean, I prefer the show at it's most bombastic and fun, but an episodic like this every once in a while is perfectly fine. And while parts of the writing could have been a little tighter in my opinion and the humor definitely could have stood to be punched up, this episode more than any other so far has proven to me that, despite all the outcry she caused in Mare Do Well, Merriwether Williams has the potential to write a truly great episode of this show.

[Dessa]

I wasn't much of a fan of Hearth's Warming Eve either, and although I liked Putting Your Hoof Down, it was only half a credit to Merriweather, but this episode goes a good way toward redeeming her.

[SilverSwirl]

I enjoyed the episode too, but cannot wax eloquent or analyze it atm, too tired.

[Motion Paradox]

For comparison I did find the G1 episode "Spikes Search" and boy its night and day with FiM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxswrROljos

Same messages sort of but in totally different ways and executions.

Oh Good! I'm not the only one who thinks so (pity this episode didn't have a random Spike & Scootaloo duet)

Hmmm, Interesting point, I actually thought of it as being a bi-cultural/multi-cultural identity story; often when someone comes from one culture and grows up outside of it, for a while they won't give their genetic culture a thought but then will reach a point where they want to know everything they possibly can about it some even to the point that they become almost a stereo-type of that culture but eventualy they learn to balance all the cultures they belong to

And I think that part of the teenage Dragons' problem is a surplus of testosterone or whatever the Dragon evquivilent is, raging hormones mess up a brain like nopony's buisiness

Hmm, maybe Spike is part Pony, after all he was born from Unicorn Magic

[SilverSwirl]

That theory seems legit... But I also started hearing in my head when Spike went out the door and on his quest, Bon Voyage, Amigo (Chapter 4 Summary) from Mother 3.